Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

[Jack_McSnatch]

So, the most common complaint I hear about the Tome of Battle is that it's too anime-y, or that it doesn't fit the Tolkien-esque setting of standard d&d. The thing is, I like the book of nine swords, but I completely agree. I was having a conversation about it the other day, and it was suggested to use it in a setting specifically made for it.

I dunno if I would actually run this, but I've had the idea rattling around for a few days. How would you run a ToB game? I had the idea of doing it like a martial arts flick, with evil masters, manipulative governments, and everybody knows some form of martial arts for no reason at all. Fights break out in the street for little to no reason, and people just act like it's common. Secret techniques, ancient temple monastaries, and animals that know kung fu. I was curious how others would run a manuever centric game.

[noce]

I see ToB more like a particular way of fighting.
Some fighters can bull rush, some can grapple, some can trip, some can disarm, some can use maneuvers.

There are schools that are less fighting and more anime, like desert wind, setting sun, shadow hand.


The thing is, gishes already do things similar to desert wind, monks have the flavour of setting sun, ninjas have the flavour of shadow hand.
So, without ToB, there are still builds that represent those concepts. I see no reason at all ToB should need a specific setting to be implemented in a game.

[Eldariel]

Well, the campaign in my signature does pretty much that (with some homebrew ToB stuff though at this point I'd rather use Path of War since it's more expansive and supports ranged combat). Most of our opponents are ToB-classed, our characters are ToB-classed and there's no magic in the world (aside from some external stuff). That said, we use ToB as just a more nuanced portrayal of melee combat, so no real kung-fu involved. We did get our asses kicked by a bunch of kungfuey Swordsage assassins once though. The campaign has been great fun though, and I fully recommend giving it a go.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Clearly ToB isn't anime. Anime is full of fanservice, the misuse of basic English words like "pervert" and Japanese speech patterns, cultural norms and expressions directly transposed into English to create a hideous mishmash that shouldn't exist, and the ToB doesn't have those terrible flaws!

Even Aboleths are less of an abomination against reality, and they're literal Aberrations from beyond reality come to corrupt our bodies and souls!

:P

More seriously, I think that the OP's idea is great. Themed campaigns can be fun if everyone gets into it, and D&D 3.X does clearly support a campaign based on Hollywood's idea of what China or Japan is like. There are enough classes (Wu Jen! Ninja!) and mechanics (yes, depending on how you fluff things the entire ToB can easily fit into the theme) to make it easy enough to play, and it should be easy enough to find weeb players who'd find this cool. Get a good GM, discuss basic themes in advance, and you're all set!

[Red Fel]

Prepare for a 10 page debate of why ToB is or is not anime... :smallfrown:

Prepare for a 5-page dissertation of what it means to be "anime," and if the term even has meaning.


So, the most common complaint I hear about the Tome of Battle is that it's too anime-y, or that it doesn't fit the Tolkien-esque setting of standard d&d. The thing is, I like the book of nine swords, but I completely agree. I was having a conversation about it the other day, and it was suggested to use it in a setting specifically made for it.

I dunno if I would actually run this, but I've had the idea rattling around for a few days. How would you run a ToB game? I had the idea of doing it like a martial arts flick, with evil masters, manipulative governments, and everybody knows some form of martial arts for no reason at all. Fights break out in the street for little to no reason, and people just act like it's common. Secret techniques, ancient temple monastaries, and animals that know kung fu. I was curious how others would run a manuever centric game.

Here's the thing. If you take away all the fancy names, all you're left with is clever things a martial can do other than "I hit it with my sword" or "I trip it." That's fine. You don't need to use the (ugh) "anime-y" names or what have you.

And when you do that... It fits everywhere. That smirking fencer you can never seem to hit? He's throwing Diamond Mind in your face. That bloodthirsty frenzy fighter in a loincloth? Tiger Claw. And so forth. It fits any setting. You don't need a setting where "everybody knows some form of martial arts for no reason at all," because that's what being a martial is. It's people fighting in a way that plays to their strengths and their enemies' weaknesses.

Now, if what you want is specifically more of a wuxia game, I think that's awesome and you should totally go for it. Consider the Rokugan setting, which is already basically written around various Asian-flavored fantasy archetypes. The setting would need very little adjustment for any random putz to be part of the wulin.

The only real challenge would be magic. Magic still trumps martial, and in any normal campaign it's basically a necessity. Now, that's easily addressed by either (a) playing an E6 style game, which limits the upper level of magic in the world, or (b) playing a mostly-Humanoid campaign, that takes place primarily in and around civilization and involves almost exclusively martials. You can have some supernatural creatures, but most of them conveniently prefer to take humanoid form, and are also primarily martials.

Or you could just play one of the many RPGs that's specifically designed around the whole wuxia theme. The unfortunate fact is that most wuxia stories are based around the character developing inner power, or occasionally acquiring that one item. By contrast, D&D heavily emphasizes outer power, including an arsenal of consumables, and a Christmas tree's worth of light-up magical gear. Short of using an adaptation where gear levels with you rather than being its own thing, that sort of hurts the concept.

[Telonius]

There are parts of Tome of Battle that are pretty Tolkienesque; though the higher-level stuff is more First and Second age. Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth (not to mention the Battle of Helm's Deep) seems like something that a Crusader would pull. Hurin taking on the Balrogs? Immortal Fortitude stance. The entire Stone Dragon school just screams, "Dwarf." Jade Phoenix Mages could fit in the world, considering how seriously Tolkien's universe takes oaths as well as the possibility of reincarnation (Curse of Feanor, Glorfindel). Some of Gandalf's shenanigans in The Hobbit seem like they could fit in with low-level Desert Wind maneuvers (dazzling enemies, fire damage). Faramir might have been employing some White Raven maneuvers during the siege of Minas Tirith (keeping soldiers together, boosting their saves against fear).

[Eldariel]

The only real challenge would be magic. Magic still trumps martial, and in any normal campaign it's basically a necessity. Now, that's easily addressed by either (a) playing an E6 style game, which limits the upper level of magic in the world, or (b) playing a mostly-Humanoid campaign, that takes place primarily in and around civilization and involves almost exclusively martials. You can have some supernatural creatures, but most of them conveniently prefer to take humanoid form, and are also primarily martials.

Or you could just play one of the many RPGs that's specifically designed around the whole wuxia theme. The unfortunate fact is that most wuxia stories are based around the character developing inner power, or occasionally acquiring that one item. By contrast, D&D heavily emphasizes outer power, including an arsenal of consumables, and a Christmas tree's worth of light-up magical gear. Short of using an adaptation where gear levels with you rather than being its own thing, that sort of hurts the concept.

We found that ToB gives you sufficient complexity to just throw magic items out of the window needing only class defense progression (and WP/VP system to make do without healing magic). Indeed, some ToB stuff seems designed to this end - Giant's Stance makes no sense in the normal game but it's actually not terrible in a non-magic game (aside from the silly Stone Dragon stance restriction, which in and of itself isn't that bad either). It actually works great to that end and in such a world, with no baseline, the one item (modelled as a Legacy Weapon without drawbacks probably) works superbly as the focus for a character interested in such a thing (Ancestral Relic or Item Familiar could be used to denote the characters who'd want one vs. ones who just want to hit things really hard with their fists). If you want a non-magic or low-magic game, I find ToB, defense bonus, no items, and uncapped leveling is just about the best thing you can do. And at least my experience is that it's a metric ton of fun.

[Jormengand]

things a martial can do

Teleportation, ignoring my weapon damage in favour of static +damage reminiscent of a lightning bolt, and honest-to-god time manipulation are not "Things a martial can do." They're spells but with swords. That's my gripe with ToB, at least. The fact that they chose to use vancian spellcasting in all but name for ToB as well is just the icing on the cake.

[Nifft]

Everything is anime, including Tolkien-esque settings. Anime is a big place. Therefore ToB is obviously also anime, but so is the rest of D&D, so don't sweat it.

Crusader is a more-interesting version of a Paladin. It's an inspiring military leader, whose actions -- and even mere presence -- bolsters morale and reinvigorates allies. Is that anime? Probably yes, anime is a big place after all. But it's also a Classical hero, and a medieval Knight of the Round Table, and it's even King Aragorn.

Swordsage is a monk / ninja / wuxia "special trick" combat person. Is that anime? Assuredly yes. But it's also a good fit for anyone good at both stealth & trickery, including Loki, the Grey Mouser, Journey to the West's Monkey, and the Princess Bride's Man in Black.

Warblade is a ridiculously tough person who can shrug off crippling conditions. They're basically Conan. Is Conan anime? Yes, of course Conan is anime. But Conan is also Sword & Sorcery, and the Warblade is a great model for Fahfrd and Madmardigan.


So... yeah, you can do a ToB-favored setting, and in fact you should.

ToB-land is a great idea, because Conan + Aragorn + Son Wukong (Monkey) are an awesome team in any universe.

[angelpalm]

Toei Animation did the animation for the Dungeon's and Dragon's cartoon therefore all D&D is anime.

http://www.absoluteanime.com/dungeons_and_dragons/diana.jpg

The anime you see is merely your own weebness being reflected back at you.

[Elricaltovilla]

I do this pretty regularly with the pathfinder equivalent. There's a campaign log in my signature that goes through about 3/5 of the Kingmaker Adventure Path with three initiators in our party. Feel free to check it out.

I'm a big fan of themed campaigns as a DM. They help focus the party, build a more tightly thematic world and make more unusual builds likely to appear.

[PhantasyPen]

Teleportation, ignoring my weapon damage in favour of static +damage reminiscent of a lightning bolt, and honest-to-god time manipulation are not "Things a martial can do." They're spells but with swords. That's my gripe with ToB, at least. The fact that they chose to use vancian spellcasting in all but name for ToB as well is just the icing on the cake.

I will assume you're referring to Time Stands Still here, and that particular maneuver isn't "time manipulation" it's a combination of enhanced perception and the initiator's adrenaline causing them to perceive time standing still as pure muscle memory takes over and allows their body to perform at a significantly higher speed than they would normally.

[martixy]

I'm not sure what "anime-y" is supposed to mean, but I view ToB as a much needed Wuxia infusion to D&D.

If the casters can fly and reshape the world with the flick of a wrist, I want my fighty types to be equally mythological and skate across water, jump off dainty branches, slice leaves in half broad-wise and catch flies in chopsticks.

And if that don't work for you, I want them to be Achilles and Conan and Hercules.

Although I do admit there's 1 purely anime-y thing in ToB - Shadow Hand's capstone maneuver.

[Nifft]

I'm not sure what "anime-y" is supposed to mean


https://i.imgur.com/EB2ergF.jpg

... is in the eye of the beholder?

[Arbane]

There are parts of Tome of Battle that are pretty Tolkienesque; though the higher-level stuff is more First and Second age. Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth (not to mention the Battle of Helm's Deep) seems like something that a Crusader would pull. Hurin taking on the Balrogs? Immortal Fortitude stance. The entire Stone Dragon school just screams, "Dwarf." Jade Phoenix Mages could fit in the world, considering how seriously Tolkien's universe takes oaths as well as the possibility of reincarnation (Curse of Feanor, Glorfindel). Some of Gandalf's shenanigans in The Hobbit seem like they could fit in with low-level Desert Wind maneuvers (dazzling enemies, fire damage). Faramir might have been employing some White Raven maneuvers during the siege of Minas Tirith (keeping soldiers together, boosting their saves against fear).

SHHHH! We're not supposed to mention that fighty-types can be awesome in D&D's source material, it might hurt the wizards' feelings! :smallamused:


Teleportation, ignoring my weapon damage in favour of static +damage reminiscent of a lightning bolt, and honest-to-god time manipulation are not "Things a martial can do." They're spells but with swords. That's my gripe with ToB, at least. The fact that they chose to use vancian spellcasting in all but name for ToB as well is just the icing on the cake.

It's not OUR fault your kung-fu is inadequate. :smallwink:



Toei Animation did the animation for the Dungeon's and Dragon's cartoon therefore all D&D is anime.

http://www.absoluteanime.com/dungeons_and_dragons/diana.jpg

The anime you see is merely your own weebness being reflected back at you.


Everything is anime, including Tolkien-esque settings. Anime is a big place. Therefore ToB is obviously also anime, but so is the rest of D&D, so don't sweat it.


I'm not sure what "anime-y" is supposed to mean, but I view ToB as a much needed Wuxia infusion to D&D.

If the casters can fly and reshape the world with the flick of a wrist, I want my fighty types to be equally mythological and skate across water, jump off dainty branches, slice leaves in half broad-wise and catch flies in chopsticks.

And if that don't work for you, I want them to be Achilles and Conan and Hercules.

Although I do admit there's 1 purely anime-y thing in ToB - Shadow Hand's capstone maneuver.

Anime: Record of Lodoss Wars, with its elves and dwarves and wizards and a sword-swinging hero... hey, wait a minute.

You know what else is 'anime'? The Táin Bó Cúailnge, with all its leaping around and special moves and fighters actually being able to DO stuff. Those ancient Irish were such otaku.

[Zancloufer]

If you remove some of the sillier names and ignore the stuff with Su tags nothing in Tome of Battle is particularly fantastical/Wuxia in design. Contrary to popular D&D belief actual historic warriors had more skills than Hit/Trip/Disarm. Tome of Battle does two things: Brings stuff that the people in HEMA practice into D&D and let you make a proper ninja/monk esque martial artist. Actually D&D is TERRIBLE with any sort of realistic historic accuracy (which is obvious but still) ToB might stand to be one of the MOST realistic though.

Heck replace the maneuvers readied with a Stamina (or similar) system that slowly regenerates in combat and it would probably fit much better.

[ben-zayb]

Prepare for a 5-page dissertation of what it means to be "anime," and if the term even has meaning.
Prepare for a 3-page discussion on prescriptive vs descriptive Linguistics, and whether language structure, syntax, and meaning, should be static or adaptive.

[Metahuman1]

All or Robert E Howards Famous Creations.

Irish Mythology.

Scottish Mythology.

Arthurian Lore.

The more exaggerated tales of people like Charlemagne and Fredric Barbarossa, or of characters like Robin Hood and his Merry Men.

German Mythology.

Greek Mythology.

Roman Mythology.

Norse mythology and Saga's.

Beowulf (Depending on how you want to define that one since it could also be argued to be early Christian era.).

The crazy feats Legolas, Gimili, Aragon, Faramier, Boraminer, Rohan's Riders, Gandalf when using his sword and not his staff, Samwise and of course all the insane feats of impossible martial prowess of the first and second ages.






All of these are inherent and essential to D&D's shaping and inspiration.

Pick one. Try to emulate a not explicitly wizardy character from it.

Now try again with Tome of Battle.

Guess which one worked loads better? :smallamused: Yeah, Tome of Battle is how you do those sorts of things.





Still not enough? Go get copy's of the period treties on swordwork/weapons work written by European masters. Fiore dei Liberi , Johannes Liechtenauer, Jerónimo Sánchez de Carranza, Walpurgis Fechtbuch, I could go on. Don't know who they are? Go read about them. Read the work they wrote. Watch modern Youtube Video's about people recrating there techniques. Skullagrim, Scholagladiatoria, Academy for Historical Fencing and Blood and Iron Martial Arts are all good channels for that latter part.



Do ALL of this and try to tell me with a straight face that somehow, someway, Tome of Battle is too Anime, Eastern, Wuxia, or anything else of the like for ANY campaign. You can't, unless your being disingenuous and really mean to say "I want fighters who are useless after low levels and casters to be the only one's who can do cool things ever.".

[ShurikVch]

So, the most common complaint I hear about the Tome of Battle is that it's too anime-yPlease, allow me to quote the answer of Judging__Eagle to Lago PARANOIA at the Ultimate Showdown: 3.0 vs. 3.5 (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50) (The Gaming Den)
(It was too harshly-worded, so I edited it a bit; please, tell me if it's still inappropriate, I will edit it more):

Weeaboo Fightan Magic is a criticism of the book that handing out (or attempting to hand out) powers that can keep up with actual magic makes the game 'too anime'.No offense, but fighters shooting fire and teleporting is pretty anime. (In before "Death Note is anime!")

... you are so short-sighted to lump in "supernaturally powerful warriors" with "anime", and with anime alone.

Seriously, it's like you've never even been on these forums ever in your life if you say something like that.

It's older than that, and you know it.

Cuchullain shapechanges into a monster able to kill entire armies; when he can already fight all day long, fighting a series of non-stop duels. Obviously filthy ancient Irish anime. Burn it with fire.

Roland cuts a mountain in f...g twain because he has to stop an army. Too much Dark Ages Germany Anime bull****. Must destroy.

Arthur grapples with child-eating Ogres, and breaks their necks in grapples. More examples of dirty Welsh magical sword-wankery anime.

Beowulf swims across the Danish seas with a chainmail shirt on, and loses a chainmail shirt swimming race because of sea serpent complications. However, he did get bragging rights about killing a sea serpent. He then rips the arm off of an immortal scrag, and then goes underwater to kill the scrag's highly advanced mother. Stupid ... Danish anime there too...

Gilgamesh is approached by the goddess of love and beauty, and does't give in to goddess loving, b/c he's got a strong enough will. He was also a warrior king that established a military junta in his own time, in order to consolidate power behind himself. Why won't the cavalcade of all of these compelling anime sources stop? I mean, there's even Sumerian Anime in this mess.

In short. Your post is a lie PR. Please stop lying.

It's not anime. It's that you're too stupid and/or uneducated about the source material to realize that anime is actually underpowered compared to the original source material.

[Fizban]

SilverClawShift had a campaign journal of a heavily modified ToB-esque game.

[Krazzman]

About the ToB is Anime... I already worded my opinion about that... somewhat strongly. I personally think the Warlock is far more in line with inherent flavor to reflect most anime tropes than 2/3 of the classes found in ToB. I agree that the Swordsage get's quite flashy techniques and such. But Warblade and Crusader both have quite "tame" abilities in terms of what actually happens.

If I were to DM a game with ToB as a focus I would pick something quite specific. It would be a game probably in the time with the Magic Plague(the event between 3.5 and 4th edition) and dealing about that. That magic becomes unstable and gets new shapes and such. The effect would be that Wizard Cleric and such suddenly stop existing. Where the players have to stop by different temples of the ToB schools and get through challenges to reactivate the magic weave or something like that.

[Jack_McSnatch]

Hey, guys, I don't care. If I wanted to argue about my opinion I would've called this thread "Come Bitch About Tome of Battle" or, "Tome of Battle; Animu or No?" If you want to go five pages beating a dead horse, make your own thread. I have my opinion. Deal with it.

Now those who wanted to talk about a game where ToB takes center stage, please continue. I kind of like the idea of no magic, except maybe some magic items. I've done low magic games, but never that low. I might use wu jen or shugenja as villains, but I dunno if I'd let the players use them. I'm thinking not, unless maybe they really work at it in game. I guess that's a good question. Would you only allow purely martial classes, or would you let them dip into lesser casters like ranger, paladin, or duskblade?

I liked Oriental Adventures, but to be honest I read very little of the setting. I might fill myself in though. I remember it being kind of interesting with the shadowlands and clan politics. I also recall there being certain classes the didn't exist there, so that might answer the above question for me. Are there any other eastern themed settings I might check out for inspiration?

Setting it during the spellplague could be interesting. They talk about magic going all sorts of crazy at the time, which to me sounds like an excuse for the DM to do whatever sounds interesting. Floating mountains? Sure. People turning into horrifying abominations? Why not? Rivers of fire that burn and freeze you at the same time? I hope you've got a boat for that.

[Jormengand]

Would you only allow purely martial classes, or would you let them dip into lesser casters like ranger, paladin, or duskblade?

Tome of Battle characters are already almost more magical than those. They won't upstage the raging infernoes, literal teleportation and "Tactics" which manipulate time with their competent healing and swords that hit a bit harder.

[Nifft]

Hey, guys, I don't care. If I wanted to argue about my opinion I would've called this thread "Come Bitch About Tome of Battle" or, "Tome of Battle; Animu or No?" If you want to go five pages beating a dead horse, make your own thread. I have my opinion. Deal with it.

Now those who wanted to talk about a game where ToB takes center stage, please continue. I kind of like the idea of no magic, except maybe some magic items. I've done low magic games, but never that low. I might use wu jen or shugenja as villains, but I dunno if I'd let the players use them. I'm thinking not, unless maybe they really work at it in game. I guess that's a good question. Would you only allow purely martial classes, or would you let them dip into lesser casters like ranger, paladin, or duskblade?

I liked Oriental Adventures, but to be honest I read very little of the setting. I might fill myself in though. I remember it being kind of interesting with the shadowlands and clan politics. I also recall there being certain classes the didn't exist there, so that might answer the above question for me. Are there any other eastern themed settings I might check out for inspiration?

Crusader is a heavily-armored medieval divinely-inspired war-leader. No need to go Eastern to find plausible characters that fit the archetype, but probably plenty such characters also exist over there as well. A leader by force of personality, backed by the invigorating favor of the gods.

Warblade is Conan / Fafhrd / Madmartigan / Riddick / Cohen the Barbarian ("smart-barian"). This is a singular warrior, a pinnacle of martial excellence which can recognize itself reflected in many different styles.
- White Raven + Diamond Mind => Samurai, a leader by singular focus
- White Raven + Stone Dragon => Dwarven Defender, a leader who is an unmoving bulwark around which battle turns
- White Raven + Iron Heart => Barbarian Warlord, a highly mobile inspiration who scoffs at impediments
- Tiger Claw + Iron Heart => Implacable Savage, a terrifyingly mobile shredder
- Diamond Mind + Stone Dragon => Immovable Bastion, a stalwart and untouchable block that slowly yet inexorably crushes enemies
... etc. You can also mix up more than two disciplines and get more nuanced characters. (And you should.)

Swordsage is the one that seems most Eastern, but you just need a plausible excuse for the Supernatural disciplines (Shadow Hand & Desert Wind basically), and it's a highly skilled warrior who knows a few tricks.

Alternately, the Arcane spellcasting adaptation makes it into a very Western-compatible figure -- it's the hedge-wizard that Conan picks up, it's the guy who knows a few spells in Willow, it's Grey Mouser who mostly uses swords but occasionally prepares a spell or two.


Those three classes are great, but to me they're NOT a full campaign setting. I'd look for more T3-T4 classes to round out the class palette.

Some T3-T4 NON-caster classes that I like for this would be:
- Warlock
- Dragonfire Adept
- Binder
- Totemist
- Incarnate
- Rogue
- Scout
- Barbarian

Some T3-T4 casters that could also fit:
- Psychic Warrior
- Psychic Rogue
- Bard
- Duskblade
- Wildshape Ranger

[Luccan]

ToB focused game could be cool. You can definitely do a "martial arts film" setting with it, though that isn't required. Remember most legends, myths, and a lot of fantasy fiction already focus on the sword guy, not the spell guy. So a setting where ToB are the more common heroes isn't automatically more Eastern.

They're all around Tier 3. They can't solve all caster problems, so if you're dropping casting classes entirely, keep that in mind. Additionally, I'd consider gestalt with this. On their own, they can't do all the mundane things they'll need to be able to pull off, so a ToB class/other mundane gestalt should be good. While some of them might feel too magic-y for your taste, Nifft provided a good list. If you want to avoid spells specifically, remember CW has non-casting Rangers and Paladins (which are worse than normal, but still a way to offer the classes to players). Get an agreement from players not to do a double-sided ToB gestalt if you go that way, of course.

Also, remember that Wu-Jen are, at worst, slightly lesser Wizards. As in a well prepared on could kick a Tier 3 party's butt. Shugenja are closer to tier 3, though, even without their restrictions and could make a good evil magician villain. Heck, a high enough level Adept could do it too.

Edit: Also, if you're going for really crazy looking fights with midair strikes and things like that, consider offering Balance, Jump, and Tumble as class skills for everyone and be more lenient with Jump restrictions.

[Nifft]

Edit: Also, if you're going for really crazy looking fights with midair strikes and things like that, consider offering Balance, Jump, and Tumble as class skills for everyone and be more lenient with Jump restrictions.

Ooo, good thinking.

On the topic of making it easier for everyone to jump / tumble / etc, my recommendation is to consolidate those skills, so PCs get the benefits of being athletic without the penalty of spending all their skill points on like seven different skills.

Athletics => Climb, Jump, Ride, Swim

Acrobatics => Balance, Jump, Tumble, Escape Artist



F.A.Q.:

Jump is on both? -- Yep. Everybody jumps.

What if I have both? -- Then you're awesome. Give yourself a +2 synergy bonus on jump checks.

What about my Ring of Jumping? -- It only works on Jump checks which are a sub-type of Athletics or Acrobatics checks, just like how Improved Feint only works on one sub-type of Bluff checks.

But I want +30 to everything. -- No.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So, the most common complaint I hear about the Tome of Battle is that it's too anime-y, or that it doesn't fit the Tolkien-esque setting of standard d&d. The thing is, I like the book of nine swords, but I completely agree.Err... Have you taken a look at Naruto lately? Those "ninjas" are wizards. Verbal and somatic components, summonses, fireballs, lightning bolts, flying, teleporting, shapeshifting, blah blah blah. Stick an orange jumpsuit on Elminster, give him a shave and a headband, make him say "believe it!" at the end of every sentence, and have other people constantly ramble on about how overmatched he is in every fight instead of letting him fight, and he'd fit right in.

[Bohandas]

So, the most common complaint I hear about the Tome of Battle is that it's too anime-y, or that it doesn't fit the Tolkien-esque setting of standard d&d. The thing is, I like the book of nine swords, but I completely agree.

It fits the theme better than the Monk class

[Krazzman]

I would definitely allow caster classes. But nothing above 6th level spells... if I don't just set it in a E6 type game.

Drawing inspiration from eberrons living spells could be workable. If I won't use e6 then using pathfinders automatic bonus progression would be a nice boon for dealing with magic items. Would make for better feel and let's me bullhonkey the loot.

[Metahuman1]

I have a sort of system I've been meaning to try called awesome points. You get them whenever you get gold.

At a rate of 1 - 1 gold piece.

You spend them on boosts and special effects, at a point cost = to the price of a magic item.

This is intended to let me have a setting were in magic items are super rare and having one is a big stinking deal, with out screwing the players, especially none casters.