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PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-17, 09:04 PM
I have this idea for a setting, but want opinions on what the best system (if any) to use for it would be. The details of the setting (nations, etc) are a little fuzzy, but the basic parameters are:

--wildly varying tech levels (from hard AI/nanotech to ~Roman era or earlier tech)
---Tiers of tech (Future-tech, Industrial-tech, ancient-tech) based on the required tolerances
--elemental magic (4 or 5 classical elements, each associated with a set of characteristics/aspects)
--corruptive magic: using (or being exposed to) magic pulls living things toward the aspects associated with that magic, including physical changes.
--higher magic levels fuzzing the tolerances of complex machinery, lowering the maximum tech tier
--humans (pure or with elemental taint) as only playable race

I know D&D and it's derivatives won't work without massive overhauls. Ideas I've had include FATE (too cinematic?) and Savage Worlds (know very little about it).

Suggestions? Any other parameters of the world are flexible at this point.

Nifft
2017-11-17, 09:07 PM
Sounds a bit like Numinera, a new-ish thing from Monte Cook (which I don't own and haven't read deeply).

Cluedrew
2017-11-17, 09:14 PM
Well the standard solutions are of course:
"Are your sure you can't just use D&D?"
FATE does that.
GURPS does that.
{Insert some Powered by the Apocalypse system} is made for that.
With that out of the way:

I don't know enough about Savage Worlds to really comment on that. But whether or not FATE is too cinematic is entirely up to you and your group, so if you haven't tried it I would recommend grabbing the free digital copy and taking a look at it. I don't know any non-generic systems that cover that. The only thing that popped into my head was Traveller because it does (sort of) cover that range of tech, but really the game assumes you are at the top end. Actually I've never played it, but that is the vibe I got when I read the rules.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-17, 09:26 PM
Sounds a bit like Numinera, a new-ish thing from Monte Cook (which I don't own and haven't read deeply).

I saw that in the local store, but only thumbed through it. I remember it had a focus on "artifacts" where the ability to make them was lost. That wouldn't work here, since the only native beings are energy forms (elemental dragons or pure energy "demons") and humans are relative newcomers.

Alcore
2017-11-17, 09:57 PM
I would like to throw out Mutants and Masterminds. i prefer 2e as it provides more example powers than 3e which can save time figuring which effect to use. Though that would require building (rather than overhualing) the system to support the setting.

By the time your done you might as well of modded DnD.


I can't think of anything else that would be less work than those two.

ngilop
2017-11-17, 10:37 PM
SO basically you are going to want to go to your locla gaming store and buy about a dozen or so GURPs books

The wide variety of what you explicitly have in your setting takes out a LOT of RPG contenders and leaves very few that can cover literally every base you can think of for a setting

which for you the setting is : everything in existence that I can think of

the only other system I can think of that has bases: all is RIFTS, but I have no idea if it is even made anymore.

RazorChain
2017-11-17, 10:47 PM
I have this idea for a setting, but want opinions on what the best system (if any) to use for it would be. The details of the setting (nations, etc) are a little fuzzy, but the basic parameters are:

--wildly varying tech levels (from hard AI/nanotech to ~Roman era or earlier tech)
---Tiers of tech (Future-tech, Industrial-tech, ancient-tech) based on the required tolerances
--elemental magic (4 or 5 classical elements, each associated with a set of characteristics/aspects)
--corruptive magic: using (or being exposed to) magic pulls living things toward the aspects associated with that magic, including physical changes.
--higher magic levels fuzzing the tolerances of complex machinery, lowering the maximum tech tier
--humans (pure or with elemental taint) as only playable race

I know D&D and it's derivatives won't work without massive overhauls. Ideas I've had include FATE (too cinematic?) and Savage Worlds (know very little about it).

Suggestions? Any other parameters of the world are flexible at this point.

The first thing that comes to mind is Gurps.

It has clearly defined tech levels and tech books to support it.

It has magic system to support elemental magic

Corruption mechanic youd have to figure out yourself, but the system would support it easily with afflictions and disadvantages already baked into the system.

It supports different mana levels and making different mana levels dampening tech is easy because of tech levels or even just imposing unreliable affliction on technology.

Making races is relatively easy.

The downside is you might have to invest in a 5+ books

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-17, 11:20 PM
If you're just looking for mechanics which can represent what you're looking for...find a friend that knows GURPS (or go to the Steve Jackson forums) and have them go nuts.

If you're looking for a system which reinforce a certain tone or support a certain kind of gaming experience, we'll need some more information.

Mr Beer
2017-11-18, 01:11 AM
GURPS can definitely do this, the work is knowing which books you can usefully use, deciding on which ones you are going to use and then putting it altogether in a setting.

Basic, High Tech, Ultratech.

For elemental magic I'd probably build it as Powers. Would probably be easier to balance with high tech weaponry that way. People have done work on various spells as Powers.

I second hitting up the Steve Jackson GURPS forum if you're going to use the system as the posters are helpful and many of them are top-notch crunch experts.

EDIT

I'm pretty sure one of the books has a Corruption mechanic, but if not there'll be a homebrew or two somewhere to get you started.

RazorChain
2017-11-18, 01:34 AM
I'm pretty sure one of the books has a Corruption mechanic, but if not there'll be a homebrew or two somewhere to get you started.


I think the corruption mechanic is in Gurps Horror

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-18, 10:40 AM
For elemental magic I'd probably build it as Powers. Would probably be easier to balance with high tech weaponry that way. People have done work on various spells as Powers.
It's also worth looking at GURPS Thaumatology: Sorcery (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/sorcery/), which has spells work mechanically like advantages but feel a bit like learned skills.

Tinkerer
2017-11-18, 11:42 AM
the only other system I can think of that has bases: all is RIFTS, but I have no idea if it is even made anymore.

Oh it's still being made, although even with it's massive kitchen sink approach it doesn't quite cover all the bases.

I would definitely recommend Savage Worlds for that approach though. I think no matter what system you go with you are going to need to home-brew a fair bit and Savage Worlds makes home-brew pretty easy (particularly if you use some of the following resources http://www.godwars2.org/SavageWorlds/ )

Also might I recommend changing the name of the elemental influence on a person to something other than taint? Trust me it never works out well.

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-18, 07:43 PM
Is any word not stuck with some stupid double entendre or another?

PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-18, 07:47 PM
Is any word not stuck with some stupid double entendre or another?

Dirty minds will find a way...

Nifft
2017-11-18, 07:52 PM
Also might I recommend changing the name of the elemental influence on a person to something other than taint? Trust me it never works out well. Let's see, what are some alternatives to Taint...

Maybe it's magic which creeps into the world at night, shrouding the world with the darkness of elemental shadow... Nocturnal Emissions.

Perhaps it's more necromancy-oriented, and manifests as an invisible airy killer, the cloying attar of the grave... Broken Wind, the Deadly Silence.


Yeah just pick one of those.

Bohandas
2017-11-18, 08:14 PM
Call of Cthulhu maybe?

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-18, 09:12 PM
Let's see, what are some alternatives to Taint...

Maybe it's magic which creeps into the world at night, shrouding the world with the darkness of elemental shadow... Nocturnal Emissions.

Perhaps it's more necromancy-oriented, and manifests as an invisible airy killer, the cloying attar of the grave... Broken Wind, the Deadly Silence.


Yeah just pick one of those.
Ugh, here (http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/taint). Just because I said it was inevitable doesn't mean I wanted to encourage it.

Knaight
2017-11-19, 03:15 AM
Gatecrasher has basically all of this, and because it's a Fudge build the rest can be fit in easily enough.

elanfanboy
2017-11-19, 03:28 PM
I have this idea for a setting, but want opinions on what the best system (if any) to use for it would be. The details of the setting (nations, etc) are a little fuzzy, but the basic parameters are:

--wildly varying tech levels (from hard AI/nanotech to ~Roman era or earlier tech)
---Tiers of tech (Future-tech, Industrial-tech, ancient-tech) based on the required tolerances
--elemental magic (4 or 5 classical elements, each associated with a set of characteristics/aspects)
--corruptive magic: using (or being exposed to) magic pulls living things toward the aspects associated with that magic, including physical changes.
--higher magic levels fuzzing the tolerances of complex machinery, lowering the maximum tech tier
--humans (pure or with elemental taint) as only playable race

I know D&D and it's derivatives won't work without massive overhauls. Ideas I've had include FATE (too cinematic?) and Savage Worlds (know very little about it).

Suggestions? Any other parameters of the world are flexible at this point.

Did you read empire of thorns or something? Also i would use rifts for sometging like this, but theres so much content it would take a long time to get what you want, and i dont think they make it anymore either.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-19, 04:43 PM
Did you read empire of thorns or something? Also i would use rifts for sometging like this, but theres so much content it would take a long time to get what you want, and i dont think they make it anymore either.

I don't recognize that work. I probably have at some point, but I don't remember it.

elanfanboy
2017-11-19, 05:30 PM
Its actually a trilogy called the broken empire, that was the last book in serirs(drew a mind blank writing for that) but the book series is practically an identical setting to the one you described.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-19, 06:35 PM
Its actually a trilogy called the broken empire, that was the last book in serirs(drew a mind blank writing for that) but the book series is practically an identical setting to the one you described.

Looking at the blurbs and reviews, I'm going for much less of a brutal dog-eat-dog world and much more of an exploration of a world where the magic vs technology dichotomy makes sense. Along with the "humans are invaders" idea. Less grimdark, more science-fantasy.

Over all, I'm thinking it's a better world (right now, for me) for stories rather than games.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations.

ATHATH
2017-11-19, 09:30 PM
Maybe a modified version of Shadowrun could work?

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-19, 09:39 PM
--wildly varying tech levels (from hard AI/nanotech to ~Roman era or earlier tech)
---Tiers of tech (Future-tech, Industrial-tech, ancient-tech) based on the required tolerances
--elemental magic (4 or 5 classical elements, each associated with a set of characteristics/aspects)
--corruptive magic: using (or being exposed to) magic pulls living things toward the aspects associated with that magic, including physical changes.
--higher magic levels fuzzing the tolerances of complex machinery, lowering the maximum tech tier
--humans (pure or with elemental taint) as only playable race

Okay, you really want one of the generics. GURPS gives you your tiered tech levels up to modern in the core book, and ultra-tech gives you most future tech. However I don't know of an elemental magic system for it (although I'm, sure there's one) or corruption mechanics.

Savage Worlds is probably a bit too generic, there's only three tech levels (roughly past, presentish, and future).

Fate of course would work, and if that's too cinematic FUDGE. Good solid systems flexible enough for these crazy settings, but not as crunchy as GURPS (although I do like GURPS and it's massive levels of crunch not everybody does).

Nifft
2017-11-19, 09:45 PM
Maybe a modified version of Shadowrun could work? Shadowrun barely works for Shadowrun.


Okay, you really want one of the generics. GURPS gives you your tiered tech levels up to modern in the core book, and ultra-tech gives you most future tech. However I don't know of an elemental magic system for it (although I'm, sure there's one) or corruption mechanics. Yeah GURPS could do this.


Savage Worlds is probably a bit too generic, there's only three tech levels (roughly past, presentish, and future). The other issue with Savage Worlds is that the alternative setting books you'd have to merge have a very wide quality range. Some of the supplements were quite good, others were hot garbage.


Fate of course would work, and if that's too cinematic FUDGE. Good solid systems flexible enough for these crazy settings, but not as crunchy as GURPS (although I do like GURPS and it's massive levels of crunch not everybody does). IMHO Fate is a poor fit for any game where tactics are intended to be relevant. It's great for RP-is-plot games.



One additional system idea: Cortex+ did a great job with Marvel Heroic, and that's got about the range in tech & power -- from martial artists who fight with their fists, to archers who shoot arrows, to super-tech power-armor, to literal gods -- and a huge swath of unique & poorly-defined powers in between.

If Cortex+ could do justice to that universe -- and it seemed to me that it could -- then I bet it could handle yours, too.

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-19, 10:34 PM
Shadowrun barely works for Shadowrun.
And that's a damn shame. I love the universe, I love the theming, I love how it all comes together to inspire different adventures and different approaches that I don't see in other big-name RPGs...but the system is a mess.

Nifft
2017-11-19, 11:03 PM
And that's a damn shame. I love the universe, I love the theming, I love how it all comes together to inspire different adventures and different approaches that I don't see in other big-name RPGs...but the system is a mess.

What you say is true, but not on topic for this thread.

2D8HP
2017-11-19, 11:34 PM
Call of Cthulhu maybe?

CoC is a BRP game.

Basic Roleplaying by Chaosium (https://www.chaosium.com/basic-roleplaying/) is a huge family of games that grew from RuneQuest, some other BRP games (off the top of my head) are:

Blood Tide,

Stormbringer,

Elf Quest,

Magic World,

Super World,

and

Ringworld.

the most divergent BRP based game (and my favorite) is:

Pendragon.

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-20, 05:15 AM
And that's a damn shame. I love the universe, I love the theming, I love how it all comes together to inspire different adventures and different approaches that I don't see in other big-name RPGs...but the system is a mess.

Shadowrun, better for running Shadowrun than d20 is, worse at it than most generics.

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-20, 11:05 AM
I'd go on about redesigning Shadowrun from the ground up, but as Nifft pointed out, we're drifting off-topic. Even if we're still talking about a system which would be appropriate for a setting.

Max_Killjoy
2017-11-20, 11:09 AM
Ringworld.


As an aside, I randomly found a used copy of one of the Ringworld RPG sourcebooks in the FLGS a couple weeks ago.

Nifft
2017-11-20, 11:21 AM
I'd go on about redesigning Shadowrun from the ground up, but as Nifft pointed out, we're drifting off-topic. Even if we're still talking about a system which would be appropriate for a setting.

I love Shadowrun and I love system hacking.

Start a new thread, and I'll contribute what I can over there.

Lazymancer
2017-11-20, 11:23 AM
Suggestions? Any other parameters of the world are flexible at this point.
Well, none provide out-of-box solutions. Both GURPS or M&M will provide crunchy solutions, but both will also require quite a bit of effort from GM. GURPS is not even RPG system as such. It's a toolbox for making one.

Since you are going to suffer through some heavy world-building anyway, you might want to go with Traveller (Mongoose, primarily). There'll be less support for this, but mechanics are easier. I.e. in the end there'll be less work.

Max_Killjoy
2017-11-20, 11:25 AM
Well, none provide out-of-box solutions. Both GURPS or M&M will provide crunchy solutions, but both will also require quite a bit of effort from GM. GURPS is not even RPG system as such. It's a toolbox for making one.

Since you are going to suffer through some heavy world-building anyway, you might want to go with Traveller (Mongoose, primarily). There'll be less support for this, but mechanics are easier. I.e. in the end there'll be less work.

Kinda the same reason I didn't post my normal "look into HERO 5th" suggestion.

2D8HP
2017-11-20, 11:34 AM
As an aside, I randomly found a used copy of one of the Ringworld RPG sourcebooks in the FLGS a couple weeks ago.


Nice.

I read a lot of Niven back in the 1980's (and I met him once at a book store).

Word of warning: Ringworld, like a lot of early BRP games, random character creation system could make for a party of very unbalanced PC's.

Knaight
2017-11-20, 11:44 AM
Well, none provide out-of-box solutions. Both GURPS or M&M will provide crunchy solutions, but both will also require quite a bit of effort from GM. GURPS is not even RPG system as such. It's a toolbox for making one.

Since you are going to suffer through some heavy world-building anyway, you might want to go with Traveller (Mongoose, primarily). There'll be less support for this, but mechanics are easier. I.e. in the end there'll be less work.

There's lightweight generics with mechanical load comparable to or lighter than Traveller where you don't first have to undo one setting before building another. There's also a couple of pseudo-generics*, although that option tends to be pricey unless you have an extensive library to look through**. My usual list of generics is Fudge, Fate, Savage Worlds, d6 Open, Cortex, GURPS, and HERO. Pseudo-generics include Ubiquity, ORE, and d20. I don't actually like all of these systems, but with the exception of the d20 system I respect them and am willing to make a case for them to those interested.

*Systems which don't actually have a generic book, but which have multiple radically divergent adaptations that are largely compatible.
**That one friend who collects systems and is always bugging you to read them.

Milodiah
2017-11-20, 11:45 AM
I know GURPS has been said quite a bit, and I kinda have to put my vote there. The generic GURPS magic is, in my personal opinion, one of the weak points of the system. With that in mind, I'd recommend you take the ritual magic out of GURPS 4th edition's Thaumatology. I worked on a Warhammer 40k GURPS setting which I did not in any way attempt to publish or commercialize go away GW lawyers which did include a system for Warp corruption on psykers. It's been a while and it's a bit technical, as GURPS tends to be, but I think it'd be pretty fitting for what you're describing...if you do decide to swing towards GURPS, feel free to message me for the specifics of it.

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-20, 11:50 AM
I love Shadowrun and I love system hacking.

Start a new thread, and I'll contribute what I can over there.

Seconded!


I know GURPS has been said quite a bit, and I kinda have to put my vote there. The generic GURPS magic is, in my personal opinion, one of the weak points of the system. With that in mind, I'd recommend you take the ritual magic out of GURPS 4th edition's Thaumatology. I worked on a Warhammer 40k GURPS setting which I did not in any way attempt to publish or commercialize go away GW lawyers which did include a system for Warp corruption on psykers. It's been a while and it's a bit technical, as GURPS tends to be, but I think it'd be pretty fitting for what you're describing...if you do decide to swing towards GURPS, feel free to message me for the specifics of it.

I personally recommend Path/Book Magic, it's in some ways the 'standard 4e ritual magic system' (which would be better with a name like 'academic magic') but taken to the point of completely new spells, with two systems of 'how do you cast them then' which assume rituals. Probably my second favourite 4e book (my favourite being Ultra-Tech, because it's essentially 'we took the SF stuff out of Core to give you an entire book on it).

Milodiah
2017-11-20, 11:57 AM
Woops, yeah, the system I used specifically was Path/Book Magic with the Energy Accumulation model.

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-20, 12:14 PM
I love Shadowrun and I love system hacking.
Start a new thread, and I'll contribute what I can over there.Seconded!
I'm currently working on something else, but I'll add that to the stack.

Joe the Rat
2017-11-20, 12:16 PM
It's been far too many years since I'd layed eyes on it, but it almost sounds like TORG might be worth a look... Tech and Magic are by region rather than by person, however.

Something that might be more important is a question of style - what sort of play are you wanting? Heroic, gritty, dynamic, narrative, etc.? While most systems can handle a range of themes, some systems are better than others at specific flavors.

Eradis
2017-11-20, 03:19 PM
I have this idea for a setting, but want opinions on what the best system (if any) to use for it would be. The details of the setting (nations, etc) are a little fuzzy, but the basic parameters are:

--wildly varying tech levels (from hard AI/nanotech to ~Roman era or earlier tech)
---Tiers of tech (Future-tech, Industrial-tech, ancient-tech) based on the required tolerances
--elemental magic (4 or 5 classical elements, each associated with a set of characteristics/aspects)
--corruptive magic: using (or being exposed to) magic pulls living things toward the aspects associated with that magic, including physical changes.
--higher magic levels fuzzing the tolerances of complex machinery, lowering the maximum tech tier
--humans (pure or with elemental taint) as only playable race

I know D&D and it's derivatives won't work without massive overhauls. Ideas I've had include FATE (too cinematic?) and Savage Worlds (know very little about it).

Suggestions? Any other parameters of the world are flexible at this point.

As I see it, Warhammer Heresy could be a fit-ish if you tinker the system a bit. Otherwise, I'd go with either Mutants & Masterminds (whereas every power can be skinned as whatever you want and still have a mechanical, numerical value to each) or a White Wolf one, such as Mortal or World of Darkness. It's made for playing humans and the d10 system makes it pretty easy to improvise what you need. A common hand gun? 2 lethal (meaning you add 2 dice to your Dexterity + Firearms dice pool when shooting). You want to add a mechanical gauntlet that can crush someone's head? Make it 2 to 4 aggravate. You need that enhanced leg to give you more speed without affecting your stat? Add a speed bonus to that character even though it's usually ability-based.

It is also easy to add a skill to the list if you find that one is missing. When I use this system in a medieval/renaissance setting I usually drop drive for ride or I use drive for carts and the like, etc.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-20, 04:26 PM
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Is there a cheap (preferably free) way to get started with GURPS?

RazorChain
2017-11-20, 04:50 PM
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Is there a cheap (preferably free) way to get started with GURPS?

I wish I could say yes but I had to give up women and booze to afford my Gurps collection.

Books I'd use

Basic set

Low tech
High Tech
Ultra Tech
Bio Tech (maybe)

Martial Arts (standard for all my games with expanded rules for melee combat)

Magic
Thaumotology
Chinese elemental powers (maybe)

Then I could easily draw inspiration from thing like Gurps Deadlands, Technomancer, Transhuman Space or historical splatbooks

Anonymouswizard
2017-11-20, 05:21 PM
I'm currently working on something else, but I'll add that to the stack.

No worries, whenever you're ready.


Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Is there a cheap (preferably free) way to get started with GURPS?

GURPS lite (http://www.warehouse23.com/products/gurps-lite-fourth-edition) is free, and a good introduction. However to do anything serious with GURPS you'll likely want at least one splatbook (Ultra-Tech and potentially Space for science fiction, Magic and/or Thaumatology for fantasy, and so on), and it can get expensive.

GreatWyrmGold
2017-11-20, 09:26 PM
I'd suggest selling your friends on the concept and pooling your funds. And getting PDFs; they're (probably) cheaper and (usually) easier to share.

PhoenixPhyre
2017-11-20, 10:55 PM
I'd suggest selling your friends on the concept and pooling your funds. And getting PDFs; they're (probably) cheaper and (usually) easier to share.

Sadly that's highly unlikely. Guess I'm "stuck" running games in my other world (one that's an eyes-open kitchen sink 5e D&D setting--it's my goal to find a "fitting" place for everything, even if I have to change the fluff.)