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Benejeseret
2007-08-18, 06:38 PM
Have you ever seen the commercial with the Trunk Monkey? Well, it has inspired me and I am wondering what others think regarding RAW usage and usefulness.

With animal companions for druids/ranger/cohorts/beastmasters the alternate list is pretty clear that a CR1 or less animal can be taken by a druid lvl 1

CR2= -3 druid level
CR3-4= -6 druid level
CR5-6= -9 druid level
CR7= -12 druid level
CR8-9= -15 druid level
(presumably) CR10-11= -18 druid level
(presumably) CR12-13 = -21 druid level
I know others use templates/other animals and use this rough breakdown to assign unique and new animals to the druids' companion repetoire.

So a Horrid Dire Bat (CR2+1=3) becomes a druid choice at druid level -6.

Adding a useful class to any monster adds +1CR for associated class and 1/2 CR nonassociated....sooooo, witness the Trunk Monkey

Ape with 1 to 2 rogue level = druid level -6
Ape with 3-4 rogue levels = druid level -9
Ape with 5 rogue levels = druid level -12
Ape with 6-7 rogue levels = druid level -15
Ape with 8-9 rogue levels = druid level -18

And if rogue is considered a non-associated class level (ape in not exactly sneaky) they it goes at 1/2 cr per level up to lvl4 (equal to HD) and then 1CR/level after that

Ape rogue 2-4 = druid level -6
Ape rogue 5-6 = druid level -9
etc

Obviously you cannot train a Ape to cast spells etc, but some classes I would argue would be trainable to an aninal (rogue, fighter, bard, barbarian, scout etc). And with low Int/Cha many of the rogue/bard abilities are limited as low skills, but it is not unreasonable to have one or two skills trained up somewhat.

Trap Monkey = Ape with rogue levels: skills in pickpocket OR search(trapfinding), disable traps OR Hide/MS ((beware the Ninja Monkey!))

Organ Grinder Monkey = Ape with bard levels able to bang a drum or perform mime/foolery to lighten the part mood (thus inspiring courage or fascinating.........who isn't fascinated by a monkey wearing cloths performing a scene?)

Nightengale (use stats as a hawk) or a Parrot with bard levels whose beutiful chirping inspires the party.

I would love to see such a trained creature in my games. Any ideas for smoothing out the levels (CR) offset in regards to Druid levels?

Option1: Have the Ape (-3 druid level) need to be trained via Handle Animal in the ways of the appropriate class DC=20+HD or in the apes case DC=24 and 2 months of training. The Ape then gains XP like a cohort (does not take from party) but its level cannot pass into the next 'grouping' until the druid also levels.
ie. Druid level 7 trains a Ape in 1 level of rogue. The Ape can then level up using Cohort XP rules until level 4 (within the -6 druid level CR range). Cannot surpass lvl4 until the Druid is level 10 (-9 as above).

Option2: Exactly as written when the druid levels to the next animal advanement the animal autoadvances to the appropriate CR range.

Thoughts??
Thanks in Advance

Bene

woc33
2007-08-19, 03:05 PM
as far as i remember you can't give class levels to a creature with less than 3 int, but i could be wrong about this.

MrNexx
2007-08-19, 03:14 PM
as far as i remember you can't give class levels to a creature with less than 3 int, but i could be wrong about this.

I actually use NPC class levels as a way of advancing 1 and 2 Int animals. Warrior does well for those who are supposed to be tough (war-trained animals), expert does well for those who are supposed to be smart (hunting dogs, and so on; even with penalties, they get 2 SP a level), and I use Aristocrat for those who are war-trained (weapons and armor proficiencies), but should have a wider variety of skills.

KillianHawkeye
2007-08-19, 09:07 PM
By RAW, all the animals in the MM are listed as advancing by HD or not at all, rather than by character class.

Then again, I couldn't find anyplace where it specifically says creatures with animal intelligence can't gain class levels, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any sort of precedent.

JackMage666
2007-08-19, 09:26 PM
Sorry, you need 3+ Int to take class levels, RAW.

Also, the ape would get sneak attack, which doesn't make all that much sense... Mechanically, it doesn't make much sense, too, because skills themselves don't make sense... I mean, you can train and train and train, but you won't increase skills until you kill a Dire Bear.

Anxe
2007-08-19, 09:38 PM
I love Trunk Monkey! And this needs a link to the videos to be an appropriate trunk monkey thread.

Trunk Monkey (http://www.trunkmonkey.com/content/category/4/68/51/)

Cool idea too.

Drider
2007-08-19, 10:29 PM
I love Trunk Monkey! And this needs a link to the videos to be an appropriate trunk monkey thread.

Trunk Monkey (http://www.trunkmonkey.com/content/category/4/68/51/)

Cool idea too.

that link...you deserve a cookie...but I eated it


sowwy :smallfrown:

MrNexx
2007-08-19, 11:18 PM
Yes, Jack, Killian, by the RAW you need those.

However, I said nothing about the RAW. I didn't even hint that it was RAW. I said what I do. First person, singular.

KillianHawkeye
2007-08-20, 04:33 AM
Druid level 7 trains a Ape in 1 level of rogue.

Saying for a moment that it was possible for an animal to gain class levels, how exactly is a 7th level Druid going to train anyone to be a Rogue?

Pauwel
2007-08-20, 05:26 AM
Saying for a moment that it was possible for an animal to gain class levels, how exactly is a 7th level Druid going to train anyone to be a Rogue?

The Law of Coolness: If the game has a generous GM and a player comes up with something extremely cool (monkey thieves would fall under this), it doesn't how improbable it is; by virtue of being extremely cool, it automatically succeeds.

The monkey thief would be rather effective. Of course, he'd have to look out for bombs disguised as silver bananas.

(Cookie for reference.)

Benejeseret
2007-08-20, 10:31 AM
Not certain if this would qualify...but as the Ape (or any animal) can wear rings and the like...I find him a ring of +1 Intelligence. There, INT 3.

As for a druid training a rogue....well it has been said a druid can do everything and anything in the right shape....

But no matter, the character looking to possibly do this is a ranger/beastmaster with an insanely high handle animal skill and willing to pay a rogue for his assistance in the training process.

Same goes for the bard trained nightengale.

Ohhhhh...I just had a flash.

Sleeping Beauty (PrC)
Requires: Able to use bardic music, has access to an animal companion or summon natures allies. Requires the Hibernate feat or the character must have been retired for over 6 months and then brought back. Must be female.

Lvl1: gains Sooth the Beast Feat. Increases bard music ability as if leveled as a bard.
Lvl2: Speak with animals once per day per level
Lvl3:Increases bard music ability as if leveled as a bard.
Lvl4:Gains 2 animal companions. Use ranger rules (Sleeping B levels = 1/2). These companions must be small, and must be cute.
Lvl5:Increases bardic music ability again. Nature Loves You

Nature Loves You: as a free action you can whistle and summon a swarm of 1/2 flying and 1/2 crawling animals all of diminutive size. At this point the swarm is cute and harmless and though odd, will not cause alarm to anyone. As a Full Round Action: and use of one barding singing ability the swarm will fly into a frenzy and attack any target of your choice. Treat them as a locust swarm of the animal subtype. As half the swarm is flying they can seperate and fly off to arial targets, but then split the HP in half, and the damage in half (down to 1d6). Rather than nausiate the swarm distracts and tickles the enemy with cuteness....as they bite and peck mercilessly. Still treat as if nausiated but with new fluff. After one round + charisma mod the swarm dispurses and can only be called once per Sl.B. level a day.

:)