Abusing the Nishruu: a uniquely useful monster?

[Jowgen]

Nirshruu is a species of Chaotic Outsider most recently detailed in Lost Empires of Faerun (arguably a different monster than the original from Monsters of Faerun). They are large sized 9 HD creatures that only exist in a Gaseous Form state and have some rather unique abilities:

1) Charge Magic: kill one and any charge magic items in contact with it regain 1d6 charges, magic weapon that killed it gains an extra +1 enhancement bonus for the next 1d6 days
2) it gets healed instead of damaged by non fire/cold spells,
3) it absorbs nondamaging spells "cast at it" to heal hp/spell level
4) it drains 1d4 charges/round from magic items touching it
5) any caster touching it loses 1 prepared spell/slot per round, also must make a DC 15 will-save against feeblemind each time
6) Artifacts do not operate while in contact with a nishruu and for 1 round thereafter

Charge Magic seems rather abuseable. If you could use Schemas or Staffs of Planar Binding to call them for the purpose of immediate murder, the resulting recharge of your schema/staff would allow for the perpetual charging of all your wands and such.

Problem: Planar Binding targets and is a non-damaging spell, so it just gets absorbed with no actual binding taking place. So unless someone can think of another way to reliable source these things, this is going nowhere.

It's ability to drain spells from casters seems handy for use in a prison setting, either as a daily precaution or as a one-off as long as you can prevent them from re-gaining somehow.

Lastly, the ability to supress Artifacts is something I do not believe exists anywhere else in game. So I'm thinking one should be able to design a rather effective artifact containment unit around a bunch of these.

So those are my 2 copper, thoughts anyone?

[Nifft]

Baldur's Gate 2 -- the canonical source for 2e rules -- had a specific spell called Summon Nishruu which (unsurprisingly) summoned a Nishruu.

If the existing spells are insufficient, you could do some kind of spell research to create a new spell which did what you wanted.

[Inevitability]

Seems like a good way to transport some of the more harmful artifacts.

[Endarire]

Yay! We're talking about the Nishruu! Alleluia!

What about getting one as a planar ally?

[ngilop]

Baldur's Gate 2 -- the canonical source for 2e rules -- had a specific spell called Summon Nishruu which (unsurprisingly) summoned a Nishruu.

If the existing spells are insufficient, you could do some kind of spell research to create a new spell which did what you wanted.

The bolded part is completely new information to me.


I was always under the impression that the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide,a nd Monster Manuel were the canonical rules.. seems ive been wrong for the past .. what? 30 years give or take.

[Endarire]

Baldur's Gate and other Infinity Engine games took liberties with the rules. They're fairly close adaptations, but to my knowledge, are not canon. Needs credible sourcing to prove otherwise.

[Jowgen]

Seems like a good way to transport some of the more harmful artifacts.

I agree, though I can't quite figure out how to get a magic-immune gas creature into a airtight box that would carry said artefact.


Yay! We're talking about the Nishruu! Alleluia!

What about getting one as a planar ally?

... that might actually work?

For the Ally spells, the called creatures are Effect rather than Target, so it should work. You'd need a chaotic caster but there's ways around that. Issue is the EXP cost, which keeps us from popping Planar Ally in a Schema.

So the question: how much would a Staff or Rod of Planar Ally be, and could it be used to reliably keep calling Nishruus?

[Inevitability]

I agree, though I can't quite figure out how to get a magic-immune gas creature into a airtight box that would carry said artefact.

Diplomancy?

[Jowgen]

Diplomancy?

Not likely. To quote: "Nishruus may have their own alien language, but all attempts to communicate with them thus far have failed.". :smallconfused:

[Inevitability]

Not likely. To quote: "Nishruus may have their own alien language, but all attempts to communicate with them thus far have failed.". :smallconfused:

Well, it doesn't say what attempts were made, right? It's not really limiting in my opinion.

[Jowgen]

Well, it doesn't say what attempts were made, right? It's not really limiting in my opinion.

The established status quo is that there are no lines of communication, with it being unknown whether communication is a possibility in the first place.

Even if we assume that no one has ever tried a simple comprehend languages or Tongues (really the only 2 options), as is the rules do not state that they can communicate or be communicated with. No RAW that you can and RAI that seems to purposefully leave it a mystery. So a successfull diplomacy would be contingent on a DM going off book and deciding that the Nishruu's in his setting can infact be communicated with; which all things considered, I don't find it likely.

Now there might be some other lore out there we don't know about. Maybe someone will come along. Or one could beseech the wisdom of Afro.

[weckar]

Don't 1) and 4) effectively cancel each other out most of the time?

[Jowgen]

Don't 1) and 4) effectively cancel each other out most of the time?

That's how it's meant to work in the average combat scenario, but the goal here is to Summon, load up its squares with depleted items (e.g backpacks full of depleted wands) and murder it at range so no charges are lost but many are gained.

[weckar]

Unfortunately that won't work. A depleted magic item is no longer a magic item so it will not qualify (rare exceptions notwithstanding).

[Calthropstu]

Baldur's Gate 2 -- the canonical source for 2e rules -- had a specific spell called Summon Nishruu which (unsurprisingly) summoned a Nishruu.

If the existing spells are insufficient, you could do some kind of spell research to create a new spell which did what you wanted.

Poor Irenicus, becomes a horrible melee combatant after summon nishruu.

[Darrin]

Would simulacrum abuse work here? Planar bind a mirror mephit, have them create the nishruu? It's an SLA, so no material component required.

[Inevitability]

CN Divine Disciples may be able to communicate: they have a class feature that explicitly allows communication with outsiders that share their alignment.

[Nifft]

Poor Irenicus, becomes a horrible melee combatant after summon nishruu. Still one of the most badass Elf antagonists I've ever seen in fiction.

(Tolkien's elves were also badass, but I don't recall any who were framed as antagonists.)


CN Divine Disciples may be able to communicate: they have a class feature that explicitly allows communication with outsiders that share their alignment. Oooo, good find!

It's even from the right setting books.

[Feantar]

Dweomerkeeper 4 for supernatural spell might do the trick - it's no longer a non-damaging spell, it's a supernatural ability.


(Tolkien's elves were also badass, but I don't recall any who were framed as antagonists.)

Fëanor the Kinslayer. Essentially the Cain of the story.

[Jowgen]

Would simulacrum abuse work here? Planar bind a mirror mephit, have them create the nishruu? It's an SLA, so no material component required.

I believe it would work indeed. I mean, a Simulcarum Balor still explodes when killed, right? No reason the Charge Magic of a Simulcarum Nishruu shouldn't work just as well.


CN Divine Disciples may be able to communicate: they have a class feature that explicitly allows communication with outsiders that share their alignment.

This I can get behind. It's so beautifully specific, I think a given DM would be hard pressed to not let this work.



Dweomerkeeper 4 for supernatural spell might do the trick - it's no longer a non-damaging spell, it's a supernatural ability.

I believe by RAW it works, though fluff-wise it absolutely shouldn't and it would take a really literal DM.


Unfortunately that won't work. A depleted magic item is no longer a magic item so it will not qualify (rare exceptions notwithstanding).

Good point.

Well, Nishruu's can still be used to recharge things such as Staff of Power/Woodlands (DMG, remain +2 Quarterstaffs after charges expended), or... wait a second...

Do the Wishes contained in a Luck Blade count as charges? :smallamused:

[Inevitability]

As for generating the monsters, would Polymorph Any Object work?

[animewatcha]

Is the nishruu a living creature? If yes then, a 17th level monk can communicate with it.

[Anthrowhale]

Shapechange provides access to these abilities. Body-outside-Body + Shapechange allows you to "kill" a Nishruu regularly and recharge items.

[Jack_Simth]

Shapechange provides access to these abilities. Body-outside-Body + Shapechange allows you to "kill" a Nishruu regularly and recharge items.

Unless the Nishruu's other abilities eat the shapechange and/or BOB spell. After all, they are the target....

[Inevitability]

Is the nishruu a living creature? If yes then, a 17th level monk can communicate with it.

It's got a constitution score, so yes it is.

Also, even in this corner case there's a class better than monks. A Sun Soul monk (which should have no more than two monk levels), gets Tongue of the Sun and Moon at level 10, meaning one could have it as early as ECL 15. If Primary Contact is used, this can be reduced to ECL 14.

[unseenmage]

The nonmagical magic items called Devices from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood would allow us to target these things all we want. Too bad they're from such a shaky source.

Am liking the Simulacrum angle. If PF is allowed there's even the Lesser version for lower level shenanigans.

Sadly their 'Immune to Mental Influence (Ex)' keeps us from diplomancing them into the Fanatic attitude from ELH. Which would just let us tell them to off themselves.

I see no reason why we couldnt RAW make an Effigy or Elder Eidolon of the thing. On the upside it's Absorb Magic ability is SU and would be lost.
Sadly so too is its Charge Magic ability. :smallfrown:

Any reason we couldn't make some kinda cool undead of this thing? Would need to retain SU abilities of course. Targetting the corpse shouldn't pose too much issue, assuming it has one.

Could a shadow duplicate be made somehow? Or are all of those target spells as well?

[Jowgen]

Any reason we couldn't make some kinda cool undead of this thing? Would need to retain SU abilities of course. Targetting the corpse shouldn't pose too much issue, assuming it has one.

There is so much more you and others said that warrants consideration, but I feel this needs to be addressed before anything, because it is potentially glorious.

I think it may be possible to create a Half-Fiend Lichfiend Nishruu

First we'd need one that's advanced to 11 HD. To that we apply the Half-Fiend template (I am like 60% sure there is a way), so it now meets all the criteria for being a Lichfiend, though to become one the Phylactery still needs crafting. Someone else might be permitted to provide Craft Wondrous Item as a feat per the cooperative crafting rules. Alternatively, Nishruu's qualify for several of the Bonding Rituals in DMG 2, and in fact would have the easiest time with the Ritual of Magic.

The result of this would be a rather nightmarish Undead Nishruu, which one could kill over and over as it re-constitutes ever 1d10 days. Clean source of magical charges :smallbiggrin:

Issue is, the process of turning it Lich requires more cooperation from the thing than I know how to elicit. :smallannoyed:

[unseenmage]

There is so much more you and others said that warrants consideration, but I feel this needs to be addressed before anything, because it is potentially glorious.

I think it may be possible to create a Half-Fiend Lichfiend Nishruu

First we'd need one that's advanced to 11 HD. To that we apply the Half-Fiend template (I am like 60% sure there is a way), so it now meets all the criteria for being a Lichfiend, though to become one the Phylactery still needs crafting. Someone else might be permitted to provide Craft Wondrous Item as a feat per the cooperative crafting rules. Alternatively, Nishruu's qualify for several of the Bonding Rituals in DMG 2, and in fact would have the easiest time with the Ritual of Magic.

The result of this would be a rather nightmarish Undead Nishruu, which one could kill over and over as it re-constitutes ever 1d10 days. Clean source of magical charges :smallbiggrin:

Issue is, the process of turning it Lich requires more cooperation from the thing than I know how to elicit. :smallannoyed:
Hmmm, could work as a ghost too one imagines. Finding a ghostof one of these would be quite the alternative treasure reward for a necromantic leaning party.

[Jowgen]

Hmmm, could work as a ghost too one imagines. Finding a ghostof one of these would be quite the alternative treasure reward for a necromantic leaning party.

Sadly Ghost can't be applied to Outsiders. They are notoriously hard to template. Nishruu, while technically still corporeal, addiontally disqualify themselves from even more templates because of their gaseousness.

[Inevitability]

Sadly Ghost can't be applied to Outsiders. They are notoriously hard to template. Nishruu, while technically still corporeal, addiontally disqualify themselves from even more templates because of their gaseousness.

Gelatinous can be applied to any non-ooze corporeal creature (including the Nishruu) and changes type to Aberration. From there, apply ghost. If your DM questions turning a ball of magic mist into jelly, blame Juiblex.

[Anthrowhale]

Unless the Nishruu's other abilities eat the shapechange and/or BOB spell. After all, they are the target....

Cast via Supernatural Spell then.

[unseenmage]

Found it! List of templates by type change (https://web.archive.org/web/20170108052749/http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12219.0).

Looking at the Outsiders section... man that's a short list.
Looks like the aforementioned Lichfiend template is a top contender followed closely by Half-Scrag and Half-Troll to turn it into a Giant for later template stacking shenanigans.

Monstrous Lycanthrope from Advanced Bestiary could be cool. Again, getting bitten by one of these could be more treasure reward than curse. Is 3rd party though.

The Amalgam Creature template from the same book would let us combine one if these things with a Construct. If PF is allowed there are guidelines in the Building and Modifying Constructs rules for building ANY Construct priced by its CR.
So we could theoretically build a Nishruu Amalgam Golem of some kind. Combine with Trompe L'oeil for lichlike Rejuvenation shenanigans.

EDIT
Advanced Bestiary is 3.x 3rd party but the templates
are also up on PFSRD as 3rd party PF content as well so they work with either system for our purposes.

[daremetoidareyo]

a fifth level gnome artificer from magic of faerun can make a mundane device of tongues if they research the spell.

[Calthropstu]

I would like to announce the creation of a new adopt a nishruu campaign. See the terrible abuses that these poor creatures have been put through... but for a donation of only 49.95 we can feed and house these unique wonderous creatures.
With your donation you get a weekly update on your adopted nishruu and see how it does during the year that we torture it to recharge magic items prepare it for release back in the wild.

Please donate now!

[Endarire]

The Polyglot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#polyglot) feat may be useful, especially if you can access it pre-epic.