Let's abuse Life Transference

[PeteNutButter]

So the spell Life Transference is a 3rd level cleric spell (why not also paladin?:smallfurious:) that causes you to take 4d8 necrotic damage and then "one creature of your choice that you can see within range [30 ft] regains a number of hit points equal to twice the necrotic damage you take."

So first of all did they just totally forget to specify you can't be the "creature of your choice?" Or did they leave it out on purpose, as if you self cast it, it's basically 4d8 healing on yourself, which is comparable to a level 3 cure wounds, provided the 4d8 damage upfront isn't an issue.

So if you can target yourself, that means the spell "only targets you," which makes it eligible for share spells. Therefore you can not only effectively heal yourself for 4d8 but also copy the spell on your animal companion/find steed/greater find steed to take another 4d8 x2 hp from them. Ultimately you'd be healing yourself for what is essentially 16d8 - 4d8 or an average of 54 for an action, a third level slot, and 4d8 damage to your mount/buddy. For comparison a 3rd level cure wounds would heal 13.5 + mod.

You'd have to be a bard or multiclass to even consider doing these shenanigans, and it's still just healing but it's still well beyond what you should expect from a 3rd level spell. I'd fully expect man DMs to rule you can't target yourself, as it's against the intent of the spell.

What else can you do with the spell? Twin it? Divine soul's could do that rather easily. Is there a way to make yourself vulnerable to necrotic to amp up the healing?

[SharkForce]

well, for obvious reasons it should combo well with any reliable source of temporary HP.

[Dimers]

A one-level Life cleric dip is equally obvious, adding 5 healing each time.

[Avigor]

You're forgetting that you (the caster) are damaged first, and if that damage is negated there is no healing. Even Warding Bond would mess this up, as the damage is reduced and the wording of LT lacks anything for damage transfer. Now if you have a good pool of temp hp that won't last long enough, some noteworthy wounds, and this spell available, you can cast it on yourself to essentially convert the temp hp into normal hp by RAW (albeit, how many DM's would allow it without some sort of repercussion?). That's about it that I can think of... Unless the necrotic damage can trigger something else that could damage enemies around you or somesuch, or you have an effect that could multiply or otherwise increase the healing received (even if Life Domain applies it would barely help).

[Ritorix]

The other problem it has is the damage causing a concentration check. If you're a divine soul concentrating on haste that could be really bad. :smallbiggrin:

Mitigation for that is the usual. Bless yourself (+1d4), warcaster (+advantage), proficiency in con saves (from fighter, sorc or resilient). Various features including the divine soul can throw in another bonus on a failed roll. A 5th-level caster with 16CON could have 1d20+6+1d4 as their save, with advantage, making a DC10 check from 20 damage trivial.

[PeteNutButter]

The other problem it has is the damage causing a concentration check. If you're a divine soul concentrating on haste that could be really bad. :smallbiggrin:

Mitigation for that is the usual. Bless yourself (+1d4), warcaster (+advantage), proficiency in con saves (from fighter, sorc or resilient). Various features including the divine soul can throw in another bonus on a failed roll. A 5th-level caster with 16CON could have 1d20+6+1d4 as their save, with advantage, making a DC10 check from 20 damage trivial.

You wouldn't be concentrating on both bless and haste, but I get your point.

What about maximizing the spell? Would it work with the level one grave domain feature? It's a bit shaky. If it does that's probably the best usage of it, requiring no multiclassing, coming on line at level 5, you can take 4d8 damage and bring an ally back from 0 to 64 hp. Or would you take 32?

If a circle of the shepherd druid managed to get the spell, the unicorn spirit would synergize well with it, healing some of the damage sustained by the spell.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

This is all assuming your cleric is not blind and wouldn't the 4d8 damage and the 4d8 healing just cancel out?

[PeteNutButter]

This is all assuming your cleric is not blind and wouldn't the 4d8 damage and the 4d8 healing just cancel out?

It heals for double the damage.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Oh. I missed the twice. I love exploiting loopholes. Can a character technically see them self what are the rules on that?

[Talamare]

This reminds me of a spell in Guild Wars 1 that did similar

You would pay half your HP, and heal a target for twice the amount.

This was considered a PvP Staple! Since it would heal for such massive amounts.

However it was considered that because of several caveats.
1 - The healing was instant!
This was huge, because all healing spells in that game had a 1 second cast time. If an assassin was bursting someone down, you don't have a second to respond.
2 - Healing was huge!
This was literally the strongest heal in the game, there were no options that did more than it.
3 - The cost was ignorable
Yes, it costed half your health... but healers were the best at healing themselves! They could only heal others for a fraction of the amount they could heal themselves.

None of these are relevant in DnD
The heal is as fast as other similar heals
The heal is only the strongest heal for a short period
The cost is fairly significant by default

As someone else has mentioned, the only real way to exploit this ability at the moment is thru Temp HP or some form of constant self regeneration

[Easy_Lee]

A coffeelock can exploit this through twinning, healing the target and himself as long as his arbitrarily numerous spell slots allow. Note that converting a spell slot into spell points is a bonus action, thus a coffee lock can twin at his current spell level so long as said spell slots are available.

[Talamare]

A coffeelock can exploit this through twinning, healing the target and himself as long as his arbitrarily numerous spell slots allow. Note that converting a spell slot into spell points is a bonus action, thus a coffee lock can twin at his current spell level so long as said spell slots are available.

Weird, I read this as "An exploit can exploit this"

Altho a Divine Soul Sorcerer could twin to make the healing greater, 16d8 at the cost of 4d8
Potentially use one of the 8d8s on yourself? Awesome!

We are still talking about spending 3 sorcery points for 8d8
It also doesn't bypass taking the initial 4d8, which could be deadly.

"but 3 sorcerey points... coffeelock"
Yea, don't bother


Edit
We also need to consider if this is Twinable, since it's kinda of inherently targeting 2 people.

[Easy_Lee]

We also need to consider if this is Twinable, since it's kinda of inherently targeting 2 people.

The spell text, IIRC, specifically says that you choose one creature. The fact that it also has an effect on you is negligible. I don't know what the designers intend, and I don't care. The text is clear on what "targets" means.

Also note: non-bonus action healing spells are seldom worth casting in combat unless your character is already exploiting something, such as life cleric / lore bard with aura of vitality.

[PeteNutButter]

The spell text, IIRC, specifically says that you choose one creature. The fact that it also has an effect on you is negligible. I don't know what the designers intend, and I don't care. The text is clear on what "targets" means.

Also note: non-bonus action healing spells are seldom worth casting in combat unless your character is already exploiting something, such as life cleric / lore bard with aura of vitality.

I generally agree, which is why I'm always looking for exploits to make it more viable.

If it worked with the level 1 Grave Cleric ability, that'd be very potent. I'd say healing an ally from 0 to 64 is more than worth the action. If it did work, you could even use it on yourself. Say you are in single digit health, and about to go down. Knock yourself unconscious with the 4d8 and then spring right back with the now maximized 64 healing.

But this is pretty much the same argument as the old warlock invocation to max healing and vampiric touch.

[Danielqueue1]

I don't have Xanathar's guide yet. so I don't know the actual wording of the spell.

4d8 damage will average 18 damage to you while healing for an average of 36

Twinning that spell could be powerful at level 5, taking 18 damage and healing 72. seeing that Sorcerers have proficiency in con saving throws, one could make the saving throw to maintain concentration relatively easy to make.

A life domain cleric would increase the healing done by 5, healing self for an average of 23 if cast on self. at level 6 life domain clerics heal themselves while healing others, reducing the drawback significantly. 4d8-5 damage to self 2*(4d8)+5 health to target. averages move to 13 and 41 respectively and since life domain clerics will be healing themselves every time they use a heal, that 13 hp is going to clean itself up rather quickly.

Being able to twin it and have blessed healer would require a sub-optimal multiclass so I doubt it's going to happen any time soon, but it is a possibility. Being able to get an average of 82 healing (split between two targets) for the price of 13 HP and a 3rd level slot could be rather clutch in a pinch.

Temp HP has been said before, but combo it with the above and it becomes even better.

a 6th level abjuration wizard could use his projected ward to mitigate or completely negate the inbound damage to the cleric while the spell still technically deals damage so if what I'm hearing about the spell is correct, it will still heal the full amount.

[PeteNutButter]

A 6th level abjuration wizard could use his projected ward to mitigate or completely negate the inbound damage to the cleric while the spell still technically deals damage so if what I'm hearing about the spell is correct, it will still heal the full amount.

You said you don't have the book, so to clarify the spell heals for twice the damage taken. Preventing the damage, would negate the healing, making abjurer's ward counterproductive.

Otherwise, good points.

[Danielqueue1]

You said you don't have the book, so to clarify the spell heals for twice the damage taken. Preventing the damage, would negate the healing, making abjurer's ward counterproductive.

Otherwise, good points.

Is it worded "the damage you take?" or is it worded "the damage dealt?" because if it is the first, then yes it would be counter productive. if it is the second, the damage is still done, just not to you.

[Julio Silva]

Weird, I read this as "An exploit can exploit this"

Altho a Divine Soul Sorcerer could twin to make the healing greater, 16d8 at the cost of 4d8
Potentially use one of the 8d8s on yourself? Awesome!

We are still talking about spending 3 sorcery points for 8d8
It also doesn't bypass taking the initial 4d8, which could be deadly.

"but 3 sorcerey points... coffeelock"
Yea, don't bother


Edit
We also need to consider if this is Twinable, since it's kinda of inherently targeting 2 people.

Twin Empowered Life Transference is interesting.

[Avonar]

The Twinnability of Life Transference could be questioned here however. It is a spell that can affect more than one creature, doesn't that make it invalid?

[Julio Silva]

The Twinnability of Life Transference could be questioned here however. It is a spell that can affect more than one creature, doesn't that make it invalid?

No. It's valid. Why not?

[Avonar]

No. It's valid. Why not?

Pretty sure it's been clarified that only spells that can only affect one target can be twinned. If it has the possibility to affect more than one, it cannot be twinned. Life Transference can affect 2 creatures, the caster and another target.

[Julio Silva]

Pretty sure it's been clarified that only spells that can only affect one target can be twinned. If it has the possibility to affect more than one, it cannot be twinned. Life Transference can affect 2 creatures, the caster and another target.

You just take damage, It doesn't target you.

one creature of your choice of you can see within range regains a number of hit points equal to twice the necrotic damage you take.

[Avonar]

You just take damage, It doesn't target you.

one creature of your choice of you can see within range regains a number of hit points equal to twice the necrotic damage you take.

I didn't say target. I said affect.

Chain Lightning technically targets a single creature. However it has been confirmed that due to the chaining meaning it can affect more than one creature, it cannot be twinned.

You take damage, Life Transference affects you. You can heal someone, it can also affect a second creature.

[Easy_Lee]

Pretty sure it's been clarified that only spells that can only affect one target can be twinned. If it has the possibility to affect more than one, it cannot be twinned. Life Transference can affect 2 creatures, the caster and another target.

By the RAW, you definitely can twin LT because it only has one target. By RAI, if we use that one GFB tweet as RAI, you definitely can't twin it. People have argued ever since the tweet and there is no end to it.

[Julio Silva]

I didn't say target. I said affect.

Chain Lightning technically targets a single creature. However it has been confirmed that due to the chaining meaning it can affect more than one creature, it cannot be twinned.

You take damage, Life Transference affects you. You can heal someone, it can also affect a second creature.

It still target one creature. The caster isn't a target.

[Julio Silva]

By the RAW, you definitely can twin LT because it only has one target. By RAI, if we use that one GFB tweet as RAI, you definitely can't twin it. People have argued ever since the tweet and there is no end to it.
True +1.0 :smallconfused:

[Avonar]

It still target one creature. The caster isn't a target.

I will repeat once more, so we don't dominate this thread more, the TARGET is irrelevant, it's about how many creatures are AFFECTED by the spell.

[Julio Silva]

I will repeat once more, so we don't dominate this thread more, the TARGET is irrelevant, it's about how many creatures are AFFECTED by the spell.
No, target is relevant. Life transference by RAW target a single creature.

Twin Spell description.
"To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level"

[Goosefarble]

So first of all did they just totally forget to specify you can't be the "creature of your choice?" Or did they leave it out on purpose, as if you self cast it, it's basically 4d8 healing on yourself, which is comparable to a level 3 cure wounds, provided the 4d8 damage upfront isn't an issue.

Uh, what? You'd be healing yourself of damage you just took, thus meaning there was no change in your HP.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind, I just reread the spell and realise what it does now

[Ganymede]

If it worked with the level 1 Grave Cleric ability, that'd be very potent.

It doesn't.

"When you would normally roll one or more dice to restore hit points with a spell to a creature at 0 hit points, you instead use the highest number possible for each die."

You do not roll any dice to restore hit points with this particular spell. The healing done with this spell is a fixed value calculated by doubling the damage inflicted.

[Talamare]

It still target one creature. The caster isn't a target.

To begin with; the word target is never used in the spell

A spell like Evard's Black Tentacle uses similar wording as Life Transferance

Never mentioning targets

Evard's Black Tentacle mentions creatures taking damage
Life Transference mentions you taking damage

By both RAW and RAI there is a QUESTION whether it is twinable
It's not concrete in either direction

Now, there is a fairly high chance that... Yea it's twinable

However, this is one occasion it doesn't hurt to ask The Craw

[PeteNutButter]

It doesn't.

"When you would normally roll one or more dice to restore hit points with a spell to a creature at 0 hit points, you instead use the highest number possible for each die."

You do not roll any dice to restore hit points with this particular spell. The healing done with this spell is a fixed value calculated by doubling the damage inflicted.

I agree, that's why I say "if." RAW your answer is most accurate IMO, but not the only interpretation.

[Zene]

I think if there’s a question whether it’s twinnable, a JC tweet will soon clarify that it isn’t. (Just because that’s been the pattern iirc).

Twinning it would be cool though.

But also wouldn’t you take the damage twice if it’s twinned?

[Easy_Lee]

I think if there’s a question whether it’s twinnable, a JC tweet will soon clarify that it isn’t. (Just because that’s been the pattern iirc).

Twinning it would be cool though.

But also wouldn’t you take the damage twice if it’s twinned?

Technically no. Twin doesn't create a copy, just gives the spell an extra target.

If going with the JC rules of two affected targets, then no spell can be twinned. All spells affect the caster by consuming his spell slots.

[Zene]

Technically no. Twin doesn't create a copy, just gives the spell an extra target

Ah, you’re right. And the way the spell is worded, you don’t take damage half of what’s healed (which would make me think you’d take damage twice); rather, it says you take damage, and the target gets healed double that. Ok I get it now.


If going with the JC rules of two affected targets, then no spell can be twinned. All spells affect the caster by consuming his spell slots.

Lol according to the butterfly effect, each spell cast might affect the entire world. But seriously,I think JC is pretty clear in his explanation (at least on this topic), and the use of spell slots is not the kind of effect he means. Hopefully when this comes up he’ll clarify the intent is that it has one target, and thus can be twinned. But I’m not holding my breath.

In the meantime, though, I’ll definitely allow it in my games. Neat trick for the DS sorcerer, and the whole point of the sorcerer is to have neat tricks.

[Dalebert]

Can a character technically see them self what are the rules on that?

Crawford has answered questions like this before with something like "Look down. There you are."
So yes.


As someone else has mentioned, the only real way to exploit this ability at the moment is thru Temp HP or some form of constant self regeneration

Seems like a spell practically built for necromancers since they have a class feature to heal themselves. Combine it Vampiric Touch and necros get the standard amount of healing plus a bonus every time they drop something. Also necromancers commonly take Inspiring Leader and those temp hp help.

However, then necromancers get necrotic resistance and that theory kind of falls flat. Is this spell still worth it when it's 2d8 sel-dmg and only 4d8 healing?


Twin Empowered Life Transference is interesting.

Well, you can't apply two metamagics to one spell. It seems very possible to me that it's twinnable. I don't think of the caster himself as a target. Curious whether Crawford does.

[SharkForce]

However, this is one occasion it doesn't hurt to ask The Craw

debatable. you can get answers from him about RAI that take good, functioning mechanics and make them suck. look what happened to careful spell. RAW, it's pretty cool, but still not awesome enough to be required. RAI according to Crawford, it's a steaming cesspool of suck that nobody should ever choose. it went from being a cool feature of the sorcerer class that gave them something awesome where they could at least say "hey look, here's something a wizard can't do better" to being a trap option in any game where the DM uses crawford's version of careful spell (which should have the text of its effect changed to "be careful you don't pick this turd of an ability").

i lack confidence that getting answers from the devs about anything is guaranteed to not have a non-negative outcome.


Well, you can't apply two metamagics to one spell. It seems very possible to me that it's twinnable. I don't think of the caster himself as a target. Curious whether Crawford does.

you can with empower.

[tsotate]

look what happened to careful spell. RAW, it's pretty cool, but still not awesome enough to be required. RAI according to Crawford, it's a steaming cesspool of suck that nobody should ever choose. it went from being a cool feature of the sorcerer class that gave them something awesome where they could at least say "hey look, here's something a wizard can't do better" to being a trap option in any game where the DM uses crawford's version of careful spell (which should have the text of its effect changed to "be careful you don't pick this turd of an ability"
What did he rule on it?

[SharkForce]

What did he rule on it?

RAI is apparently that careful spell only works in the exact moment you cast it.

meaning, it functions for, say, fireball, just like it would in core (and every guide i have ever seen points out how much of a crap metamagic it is for that purpose), but all of the interesting uses that actually made it a worthwhile metamagic choice (like your melee fighters being able to walk through your webs safely, for example) are gone.

until his ruling, there was not a shred of evidence that careful spell was supposed to have a limited duration on the benefit. it doesn't say the people you choose make only the first save, it doesn't say that they make their save only on the turn you cast the spell in, it just says that the people you choose (and no, the fact that it says you must choose them when you cast the spell does not somehow mean that it only works when you cast the spell, any more than the fact that you must choose the people who will be on your car insurance when you buy it means that the car insurance only applies in the exact moment that you buy it) successfully save against the spell.

so now it kinda works remotely well for a few spells, which you can usually just aim in such a way as to not hit your allies anyways (like fear and hypnotic pattern), is pretty crappy for a few other spells (like fireball and lightning bolt, which you still don't want to drop on your own party anyways), and doesn't give the sorcerer anything unique or exciting. instead it gives you a big fat "meh". given that metamagic is the only thing sorcerers have going for them, they should be something you're excited to get, not something you might eventually grab because the other options are even less appealing.

[Talamare]

RAI is apparently that careful spell only works in the exact moment you cast it.

meaning, it functions for, say, fireball, just like it would in core (and every guide i have ever seen points out how much of a crap metamagic it is for that purpose), but all of the interesting uses that actually made it a worthwhile metamagic choice (like your melee fighters being able to walk through your webs safely, for example) are gone.

until his ruling, there was not a shred of evidence that careful spell was supposed to have a limited duration on the benefit. it doesn't say the people you choose make only the first save, it doesn't say that they make their save only on the turn you cast the spell in, it just says that the people you choose (and no, the fact that it says you must choose them when you cast the spell does not somehow mean that it only works when you cast the spell, any more than the fact that you must choose the people who will be on your car insurance when you buy it means that the car insurance only applies in the exact moment that you buy it) successfully save against the spell.

so now it kinda works remotely well for a few spells, which you can usually just aim in such a way as to not hit your allies anyways (like fear and hypnotic pattern), is pretty crappy for a few other spells (like fireball and lightning bolt, which you still don't want to drop on your own party anyways), and doesn't give the sorcerer anything unique or exciting. instead it gives you a big fat "meh". given that metamagic is the only thing sorcerers have going for them, they should be something you're excited to get, not something you might eventually grab because the other options are even less appealing.

When you CAST the spell, blah blah

So even by RAW they didn't change anything

When you BUY Car Insurance, we will give you a 50% discount
Only ever applies to the first payment, never the future payments.

[SharkForce]

When you CAST the spell, blah blah

So even by RAW they didn't change anything

When you BUY Car Insurance, we will give you a 50% discount
Only ever applies to the first payment, never the future payments.

*sigh* sure, let's have this again. here is the actual text of the ability:

"When you cast a spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw, you can protect some of those creatures from the spell's full force. To do so, you spend 1 sorcery point and choose a number of those creatures up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). A chosen creature automatically succeeds on its saving throw against the spell."

not "when you cast a spell, you can protect some creatures for one turn" (or one round, or one saving throw). just when you cast the spell, you can protect some people. nothing says the protection in question is limited in duration, just that you are protecting people.

and nobody says when you buy car insurance, they'll give you a 50% discount and then immediately after says "ok, we're taking away that 50% discount, we only promised it in the very instant that you bought car insurance and that's passed so now you owe us full price". or at least, they don't if they ever want to have a second customer and don't want to spend some time in court.

[Theodoxus]

Why is everyone overlooking the first sentence of the spell?

"You sacrifice some of your health to mend another creature’s injuries." Yeah, argue that's just ribbon text. If so, there's literally no reason for it to be there. But I contend it's part of the spells description - because, shocker! - it's part of the spell's description.

You can't use it to heal yourself, because you're not another creature.

You play that game at my table, you can go stand outside in the wet for all I care.

[Talamare]

*sigh* sure, let's have this again. here is the actual text of the ability:

"When you cast a spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw, you can protect some of those creatures from the spell's full force. To do so, you spend 1 sorcery point and choose a number of those creatures up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). A chosen creature automatically succeeds on its saving throw against the spell."

not "when you cast a spell, you can protect some creatures for one turn" (or one round, or one saving throw). just when you cast the spell, you can protect some people. nothing says the protection in question is limited in duration, just that you are protecting people.

and nobody says when you buy car insurance, they'll give you a 50% discount and then immediately after says "ok, we're taking away that 50% discount, we only promised it in the very instant that you bought car insurance and that's passed so now you owe us full price". or at least, they don't if they ever want to have a second customer and don't want to spend some time in court.

"When" is a trigger
The thing that activates the trigger is "you cast a spell"
The spell is cast when you spend a spell slot.

For it to be the way you want it, it would be...

If a spell cast by this meta magic forces other creatures to make a saving throw... etc

Also, It's pretty standard practice for EVERY company to offer sign up discounts and promos.
When you get a gym membership, you get a free shirt. You don't get a free shirt every day, you get one... when you get a gym membership.
etc

[Julio Silva]

Why is everyone overlooking the first sentence of the spell?

"You sacrifice some of your health to mend another creature’s injuries." Yeah, argue that's just ribbon text. If so, there's literally no reason for it to be there. But I contend it's part of the spells description - because, shocker! - it's part of the spell's description.

You can't use it to heal yourself, because you're not another creature.

You play that game at my table, you can go stand outside in the wet for all I care.

Twinned Spell

When you Cast a Spell that Targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).





Twinned's second creature can heal yourself. I bealive... works well.

[SharkForce]

"When" is a trigger
The thing that activates the trigger is "you cast a spell"
The spell is cast when you spend a spell slot.

For it to be the way you want it, it would be...

If a spell cast by this meta magic forces other creatures to make a saving throw... etc

Also, It's pretty standard practice for EVERY company to offer sign up discounts and promos.
When you get a gym membership, you get a free shirt. You don't get a free shirt every day, you get one... when you get a gym membership.
etc

if 6 seconds after you give them the shirt you tell them that they signed up for the membership 6 seconds ago and since they are no longer right this very instant getting a gym membership they need to give the shirt back, expect to have some problems. in fact, i'll tell you what: you go start a new gym, make that offer, and then start demanding the shirts back 6 seconds later. see how many people are upset. when the inevitable court summons comes, if the court supports you over the people you just tried to screw over with your sad excuse for a supposedly valid interpretation of that promise, send me proof and i will give you 10 bucks :)

the thing that is activated by the trigger is that you can protect some creatures from the spell. not "you can protect some creatures from the initial effect only". it just says you can protect them.

[Saeviomage]

You people realise that cure wounds is healing for 3d8+stat mod, right? So casting it on yourself is hardly powerful, since you end up healing a net of 4d8 damage. The biggest benefit of the spell is simply that a wizard can cast it, and that a cleric can get 30ft of range out of it over cure wounds.

To maximize it, you want to get the full 8d8 worth of healing by draining a character that has some big temporary hit point buff they have gotten for free or cheap (so low level out of combat pre-casting), or some other way to pass the penalty on.

So, it will combo well with:
arcane ward (abjurer feature)
inspiring presence (feat)
false life (spell)
a shield guardian
a ring of spell storing + polymorph

magic jar (woo - blow a spell to damage the guy, heal your buddies, and then drop back into your own body)

If throughput is the key, then if you could find some way to become vulnerable to necrotic damage, that would be the ticket.

[Talamare]

arcane ward (abjurer feature)

Technically doesn't work.

The spell heals for the amount of damage you take

Arcane Ward is specifically worded that the Ward takes damage INSTEAD.
So, the Ward is essentially a separate entity with its own hit points that is intercepting the damage and taking it instead.

Temporary Hit Points do work.
They state that when you take damage, Temporary Hit Points are lost first.

[Jerrykhor]

"When" is a trigger
The thing that activates the trigger is "you cast a spell"
The spell is cast when you spend a spell slot.

For it to be the way you want it, it would be...

If a spell cast by this meta magic forces other creatures to make a saving throw... etc

Also, It's pretty standard practice for EVERY company to offer sign up discounts and promos.
When you get a gym membership, you get a free shirt. You don't get a free shirt every day, you get one... when you get a gym membership.
etc

All the metamagic has a similar first sentence of 'When x happens...', they are intended to be the condition of using the metamagic. But I'd argue that protecting creatures from the first saving throw is hardly protecting them from 'the full force' of the spell. Also, Heightened specifically mention the first saving throw of the spell, while Careful does not. I think by RAW it should protect from all the saves from the spell.

[PeteNutButter]

Technically doesn't work.

The spell heals for the amount of damage you take

Arcane Ward is specifically worded that the Ward takes damage INSTEAD.
So, the Ward is essentially a separate entity with its own hit points that is intercepting the damage and taking it instead.

Temporary Hit Points do work.
They state that when you take damage, Temporary Hit Points are lost first.

Also shield guardian wouldn't help either, as it would only heal for the damage you take, effectively cutting it in half.

I would point out that 14th level+ evocation wizards could maximize it. That might actually be a practical use of the spell, as evokers can hurt themselves using the same ability. If you are low on health, just nuke yourself with a 6d8 maximized 5th level Life Transference and heal for 80 hp. That's probably close to full hp for a wizard in tier 3.

I'm not sure if you would take the d12s after the spell resolved--potentially making it pointless--or immediately after you cast it and before it resolved--meaning all those d12s would just mean a failed death save unless it's enough damage to outright kill you. It would come down to how your DM interprets "immediately after you cast the spell."

[Saeviomage]

Also shield guardian wouldn't help either, as it would only heal for the damage you take, effectively cutting it in half.

The goal was to have the guardian cast the spell in order to heal you using it's spell storing feature, not to take less damage from casting the spell.

[Mortis_Elrod]

So.....

Its very late level but what type of school does LT belong to? Necromancy?

Death Cleric 17th level can cast it on 2 people effectively himself AND someone else if they are in range.

I mean twinning would be nice too, so 3 level dip into sorcerer for twin spell? Or is Quicken spell better

3 or 4 people healed?

[Dalebert]

Is it worth casting after a necromancer has necrotic resistance?

[Waffle_Iron]

AFB at the moment.
What's the wording on the Necromancer's ability granting Temp HP after dropping a creature with necromantic magic?
IE: if the necromancer drops himself to 0 using this spell to heal someone else, does he pop back up with temp HP?
Can you have temp HP, and 0 regular HP? I suspect so, as there are ways to grant allies THP.

[Talamare]

AFB at the moment.
What's the wording on the Necromancer's ability granting Temp HP after dropping a creature with necromantic magic?
IE: if the necromancer drops himself to 0 using this spell to heal someone else, does he pop back up with temp HP?
Can you have temp HP, and 0 regular HP? I suspect so, as there are ways to grant allies THP.

Only if you agree that the damage literally kills you (not just drops you to 0)

[Gardakan]

I'll give you my comments. I'll officially be playing a Sorcerer 5/Bard 1 with the Divine Soul archetype.

I just picked Slow and Life Transference. Can't wait to see it in action. I feel that it's a niche but so rewarding spell that it fits the theme.

[Arkhios]

Hmm. I failed to notice if someone brought this up yet somewhere between the "twinning works/no it doesn't" debate.

If I'm reading this right, Life Domain Cleric would get the most out of this spell starting from 6th level. Not only would the spell restore more hit points to its target, the cleric would also mitigate some of the damage taken from it due to Blessed Healer. The real treat is that Blessed Healer doesn't reduce the damage taken, so the hit points restored isn't reduced either. It creates a separate instance that heals you as well.

[Gardakan]

Hmm. I failed to notice if someone brought this up yet somewhere between the "twinning works/no it doesn't" debate.

If I'm reading this right, Life Domain Cleric would get the most out of this spell starting from 6th level. Not only would the spell restore more hit points to its target, the cleric would also mitigate some of the damage taken from it due to Blessed Healer. The real treat is that Blessed Healer doesn't reduce the damage taken, it creates a separate instance that heals you as well.

It is Twinnable. The spell targets only one creature (you don't have the choice to transfer your own life to another creature, but it's not targeting you, it's part of the spell).

You can totally take 4d8 necrotic damage on your own hp, twin the spell at the cost of 3 sorcery points and then heal for the double the amount you took at two different targets (which Twin enables, you can target another creature as long as the spell targets only one before applying metamagic at this level of casting).

You can't heal yourself with the Twinned part of the spell, as you can't target yourself with Warding Bond (despite some people that actually believes they can... but this is trying to cheat out what isn't written or Sage Advice has clarified).

[Arkhios]

It is Twinnable. The spell targets only one creature (you don't have the choice to transfer your own life to another creature, but it's not targeting you, it's part of the spell).

You can totally take 4d8 necrotic damage on your own hp, twin the spell at the cost of 3 sorcery points and then heal for the double the amount you took at two different targets (which Twin enables, you can target another creature as long as the spell targets only one before applying metamagic at this level of casting).

You can't heal yourself with the Twinned part of the spell, as you can't target yourself with Warding Bond (despite some people that actually believes they can... but this is trying to cheat out what isn't written or Sage Advice has clarified).

Dude. I don't care whether twinning works or not. It wasn't the point of my post. Please, read the rest of it.

[bc56]

I personally would say twinable, but that depends on how you read it. What's really scary (and probably a bad design choice) is that it is on the wizard spell list. I would combine it with Necromancer, and just not take 10 levels of wizard, so I don't reduce the damage I take, especially because Necromancers can heal themselves with spells.

[RickAllison]

According to RAÍ, it is not Twinnable. However, this is because the RAI does not follow the wording. Crawford has stated that the intention is for Twin to be limited by affected creatures even though this conflicts with the book. It doesn't need a Sage Advice, it needs an erratum.

[Easy_Lee]

According to RAÍ, it is not Twinnable. However, this is because the RAI does not follow the wording. Crawford has stated that the intention is for Twin to be limited by affected creatures even though this conflicts with the book. It doesn't need a Sage Advice, it needs an erratum.

Crawford is also pretty loose with the word "affected" based on tweets about the Rakshasa. His ruling may not be best for all tables.

[HolyDraconus]

Crawford is also pretty loose with the word "affected" based on tweets about the Rakshasa. His ruling may not be best for all tables.

If a rakshasa cast this, can they take the damage then later ignore it? If so does the amount healed go away?

[Vaz]

I'll give you my comments. I'll officially be playing a Sorcerer 5/Bard 1 with the Divine Soul archetype.

I just picked Slow and Life Transference. Can't wait to see it in action. I feel that it's a niche but so rewarding spell that it fits the theme.

As if necrod a thread to post that.

[Strangways]

With 5 levels in Warlock you could take the Tomb of Levistus invocation, upcast Life Transference, then use your reaction to ToL against your own damage.

[No brains]

Here's an interesting hack for Life Transference: Give yourself extra necrotic damage. Bestow Curse can make your spells deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage to a target, boosting the transferred life. If you can make yourself vulnerable, you can heal even more! Maybe if you have a daring GM, you can have someone ready a Toll The Dead as you cast the spell to pile on even more necrotic damage!

[Grixis]

If you are a 5th level Warlock you can use the Tomb of Levistus invocation to gain 50 temp as a reaction once per short rest. 5th level Warlock will also give you 3rd level spell slots that recharge every short rest so it works out pretty well.