Can warlocks swap out eldritch evocations while leveling?

[Spacehamster]

Were wondering cus thinking about an evil character Oathbreaker/Hexblade that starts 5 hexblade for 2nd attack, then goes 7 Oathbreaker for aura and CHA to damage, so when I get extra attack feature could I say swap out my warlock extra attack thingy for the aura of flies bonus action thingy?

[Millstone85]

You can replace an invocation when you gain a level "in this class". I don't think it works when you level up in another class.

[DarkKnightJin]

You can replace an invocation when you gain a level "in this class". I don't think it works when you level up in another class.

By RAW, yes. Though unless you're clearly breaking something and/or your DM has reason to not like you.. I don't see many DMs making a big fuss over swapping out an Invocation whenever you level.

In OP's case, swapping out their Thirsting Blade for another Invocation when they hit Paladin 5, because the extra Attack features don't stack.

I'd personally let them swap it out for a nice flavor Invocation, like Eldritch Sight or something.

[Spacehamster]

Ok so by raw when I continue in hexblade but can always ask dm wut they think got it thx. :)

[Mikal]

Ok so by raw when I continue in hexblade but can always ask dm wut they think got it thx. :)

I recommend going Hexblade at least to 7 (for Shadow of Moil) or 8 (For SoM and another ASI).
As such, you can easily go Hexblade to 5, then Paladin to 5 for extra attack, then back to Hexblade for another level or three, then back to Paladin for the Aura.

But RAW, you can only swap Invocations when you gain a level in Warlock.

If you want to stick with only 5 of Hexblade and your DM won't budge, it's probably best to ignore Thirsting Blade entirely, take Eldritch Smite at 5, and live with the single attack (use Booming Blade/GFB with it or if using a Polearm the Bonus Attack PAM action) until you hit Paladin 5.

[DarkKnightJin]

I recommend going Hexblade at least to 7 (for Shadow of Moil) or 8 (For SoM and another ASI).
As such, you can easily go Hexblade to 5, then Paladin to 5 for extra attack, then back to Hexblade for another level or three, then back to Paladin for the Aura.

But RAW, you can only swap Invocations when you gain a level in Warlock.

If you want to stick with only 5 of Hexblade and your DM won't budge, it's probably best to ignore Thirsting Blade entirely, take Eldritch Smite at 5, and live with the single attack (use Booming Blade/GFB with it or if using a Polearm the Bonus Attack PAM action) until you hit Paladin 5.

BB/GFB would be the way to go if your DM won't allow swapping of Invocations on any level up.
Which seems kinda petty, but I can see where they'd come from in not allowing it.

So, to sum up for you, OP: Ask your DM if they allow swapping of Invocations on any level up or only Warlock levels. If the latter, skip Thirsting Blade and just (ab)use the dickens out of Booming Blade or Green-flame Blade while you're leveling your Paladin side.

[Mikal]

BB/GFB would be the way to go if your DM won't allow swapping of Invocations on any level up.
Which seems kinda petty, but I can see where they'd come from in not allowing it.

So, to sum up for you, OP: Ask your DM if they allow swapping of Invocations on any level up or only Warlock levels. If the latter, skip Thirsting Blade and just (ab)use the dickens out of Booming Blade or Green-flame Blade while you're leveling your Paladin side.

Eh, not especially petty. I don't allow it as a DM because I like for my players to have to actually make a choice when they decide to multi-class.
And if you go the cantrip route, I always recommend Booming Blade, since if you can fit War Caster into the build you can use it for your OA for extra damage, though you'll ask the DM if the Sentinel 0 movement applies to the casting. Even if it does, the Booming Blade damage still gives you more oomph starting at level 5, but if it doesn't, then that's even more damage.

As a DM, I rule since it's a spell using a weapon attack the 0 movement doesn't apply personally.

[alchahest]

Eh, not especially petty. I don't allow it as a DM because I like for my players to have to actually make a choice when they decide to multi-class.
And if you go the cantrip route, I always recommend Booming Blade, since if you can fit War Caster into the build you can use it for your OA for extra damage, though you'll ask the DM if the Sentinel 0 movement applies to the casting. Even if it does, the Booming Blade damage still gives you more oomph starting at level 5, but if it doesn't, then that's even more damage.

As a DM, I rule since it's a spell using a weapon attack the 0 movement doesn't apply personally.

The player is already making an actual choice to not have access to the next level of the current class, as well as losing out on higher levels of either class. Just because the choice lines up with their character concept doesn't mean that it isn't a choice. What is the cost for choosing to play a single classed paladin or wizard to fulfill their character concept?

[Mikal]

The player is already making an actual choice to not have access to the next level of the current class, as well as losing out on higher levels of either class. Just because the choice lines up with their character concept doesn't mean that it isn't a choice. What is the cost for choosing to play a single classed paladin or wizard to fulfill their character concept?

The cost for choosing to play a single classed paladin in this case is that they can't use Charisma to hit and attack, as well as the other Warlock options?
The cost for choosing to play a wizard is that it doesn't really fit the Hexblade style concept at all, even with Bladesinger?
Part of the choice of multi-classing is that sometimes items will overlap. In this case, the PC actually has a chance to remove the overlap, and it's a small price to pay to have the character swap out using the RAW rules to do so... especially when you can mitigate it while waiting for Paladin 5 with either PAM Bonus action attacks, or GFB/Booming Blade.

You want to House Rule it to make it easier? That's on you. I like for my PCs to actually have to make a choice - You can do A which gives you more power now but is weaker in the long run, or choose B which makes you slightly weaker now but stronger in the long run.

Both A and B are balanced, and the weakness is not crippling in either case. But you still have to choose which path you want.

Also note as a player I do the same thing- currently playing a Hexblade past level 5 that I eventually plan to move into Paladin or Fighter myself. I'm living with the Extra Attack issue myself, and making a similar choice.

So I guess I should clarify I want the player to make a choice with actual consequences, since apparently that was not inferred for some reason?

[Laserlight]

Were wondering cus thinking about an evil character Oathbreaker/Hexblade that starts 5 hexblade for 2nd attack, then goes 7 Oathbreaker for aura and CHA to damage, so when I get extra attack feature could I say swap out my warlock extra attack thingy for the aura of flies bonus action thingy?

By RAW no; if you're at my table, yes.
Not that you're likely to get to L12 with the same character at my table, as people get antsy to try another build.

[Spacehamster]

Thanks for all the replies, if the build does happen it will probably be a 7 oathbreaker and 13 hexblade as the goal.

Start stats with racial bonuses half elf: 14/14/14/8/9/17.
ASI/feats in order: Elven accuracy, polearm master, + 2 CHA and last probably + 2 CON. Fighting style mariner(if paladins can take this one) otherwise defense.

[Mikal]

Thanks for all the replies, if the build does happen it will probably be a 7 oathbreaker and 13 hexblade as the goal.

Start stats with racial bonuses half elf: 14/14/14/8/9/17.
ASI/feats in order: Elven accuracy, polearm master, + 2 CHA and last probably + 2 CON. Fighting style mariner(if paladins can take this one) otherwise defense.

If you can swap stuff, change that 14 Str to a 10 at most, use it to shore up your Int and Wis instead. Maybe also consider raising Con a bit more (though 14 is doable)

Guessing you decided on 7/13 to get the 7th level Arcanum vs. ASI/Feat?

Since you're going to go to 13 hex then I'd probably go Hexblade to 5 like you planned, then Paladin 7. After that and level 12, you can drop the Thirsting Blade (unless the DM house rules it), unless you can live with Booming Blade/GFB/PAM bonus attack without Thirsting Blade until level 10.

Any reason you aren't taking Sentinel and Tunnel Fighter vs Con?
Tunnel Fighter is sick on any Polearm build, especially with Sentinel and PAM.

[Spacehamster]

If you can swap stuff, change that 14 Str to a 10 at most, use it to shore up your Int and Wis instead. Maybe also consider raising Con a bit more (though 14 is doable)

Guessing you decided on 7/13 to get the 7th level Arcanum vs. ASI/Feat?

Since you're going to go to 13 hex then I'd probably go Hexblade to 5 like you planned, then Paladin 7. After that and level 12, you can drop the Thirsting Blade (unless the DM house rules it), unless you can live with Booming Blade/GFB/PAM bonus attack without Thirsting Blade until level 10.

Any reason you aren't taking Sentinel and Tunnel Fighter vs Con?
Tunnel Fighter is sick on any Polearm build, especially with Sentinel and PAM.

14 STR can’t be dropped since 13 is required for paladin MC, tunnel fighter is not printed so that’s out the window I’m afraid, and were not that interested in sentinel since I don’t want to play him as a control character, he is more focused on making things dead. :)

Edit: yep thinking level 7 spell is worth more than a feat? Afb tho and don’t remember if warlocks got any great level 7 ones so a 8/12 split could be doable too!

[Mikal]

14 STR can’t be dropped since 13 is required for paladin MC, tunnel fighter is not printed so that’s out the window I’m afraid, and were not that interested in sentinel since I don’t want to play him as a control character, he is more focused on making things dead. :)

I always forget about the Str requirement... Mariner isn't printed either is it? It's in UA same as Tunnel Fighter so should be just as valid.

Fair enough on Sentinel. For me keeping things close and getting extra attempts to hit them makes em dead faster than +2 Con, but in that case where's GWM? If you're using elven accuracy +10 damage with triple advantage just screams "murder".

Only decent Warlock spells for Level 7 IMO are Plane Shift or Forcecage for a Hexblade, and they're edge cases that your actual Arcane casters have had for several levels by the time you get it at 20. The Xanathar spells don't really help much (and power word pain just sucks). Up to you though, and what your needs are.

[Spacehamster]

I always forget about the Str requirement... Mariner isn't printed either is it? It's in UA same as Tunnel Fighter so should be just as valid.

Fair enough on Sentinel. For me keeping things close and getting extra attempts to hit them makes em dead faster than +2 Con, but in that case where's GWM? If you're using elven accuracy +10 damage with triple advantage just screams "murder".

Only decent Warlock spells are Plane Shift or Forcecage for a Hexblade. The Xanathar spells don't really help much (and power word pain just sucks). Up to you though, and what your needs are.

Thought that mariner were in sword coast adventurers guide or am I tripping balls? :O well if level 7 spells ain’t that good I would go 8 pal/12 lock and throw in GWM somewhere there too as it’s great with triple advantage! Mostly taking 16 CON to not be made dead myself, maybe toughness would be better tho since saves will be good anyways due to 20 CHA aura?

[Mikal]

Thought that mariner were in sword coast adventurers guide or am I tripping balls? :O well if level 7 spells ain’t that good I would go 8 pal/12 lock and throw in GWM somewhere there too as it’s great with triple advantage! Mostly taking 16 CON to not be made dead myself, maybe toughness would be better tho since saves will be good anyways due to 20 CHA aura?

I just checked and I'm not seeing Mariner in there.
Only problem I see is that you won't get the toughness or con till 20. But if you're realistically playing to that level the extra 20 HP or so will be nice. I'd use it for Warcaster personally and Booming Blade.

If I was building it I'd go something like:

Elven Accuracy at Hexblade 4.
PAM at Hexblade 8.
GWM at Hexblade 12.
+2 Cha at Paladin 4.
War Caster/+2 Con/Toughness at Paladin 8.

EDIT: Also unless you're able to make sure you'll be going to high levels, I'd realistically plan to try and have either Aura of Hate or Lifedrinker by no later than level 12.

[Spacehamster]

I just checked and I'm not seeing Mariner in there.
Only problem I see is that you won't get the toughness or con till 20. But if you're realistically playing to that level the extra 20 HP or so will be nice. I'd use it for Warcaster personally and Booming Blade.

If I was building it I'd go something like:

Elven Accuracy at Hexblade 4.
PAM at Hexblade 8.
GWM at Hexblade 12.
+2 Cha at Paladin 4.
War Caster/+2 Con/Toughness at Paladin 8.

Thanks for all the tips,would be quite fun at later levels to go smite on each attack + gwm with triple advantage, like attack action: 1d10 + 15(triple CHA to dmg)+ 10 + any smite dice * 2 and bonus action 1d4 + 15 + 10. xD

[Mikal]

Thanks for all the tips,would be quite fun at later levels to go smite on each attack + gwm with triple advantage, like attack action: 1d10 + 15(triple CHA to dmg)+ 10 + any smite dice * 2 and bonus action 1d4 + 15 + 10. xD

Just remember that Eldritch Smite only uses Warlock slots (though you'll also have Paladin of course). Also, make sure to swap Darkness for Shadow of Moil at Warlock CL 7. It's better for you (can drop Devil's Sight) and more party friendly.

Though technically, if you wanted to use your 2nd level Paladin slots, you could have both for even more obscured vision goodness, though you'd need to keep Devil's Sight.