Breaking D&D (Funny, Glitches, and Loopholes)

[Ivor_The_Mad]

This thread is going to be devoted to tricks and loopholes in the game that people can exploit example: spell loopholes http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542500-Let-s-abuse-Life-Transference and other things. I don't know any off the top of my head, something about making a clone army with wish and another spell, but I would like to know more. Thanks for the input. This is all for fun and not meant to start debates.

[Unoriginal]

May I ask for which purpose do you wish to know/do that?

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Mainly just curious. But also a bit to annoy the DM.

[Easy_Lee]

May I ask for which purpose do you wish to know/do that?

I'll assume the OP has good intentions. Knowledge is neutral.

Here's one for you, Ivor. It's hardly original and has been talked about often, but posting it here for completeness' sake.

The Coffeelock: Tome Warlock 3 / Sorcerer 2+

Warlock 3: you recover two 2nd level spell slots on a short rest.
Sorcerer: Flexible Casting - you may turn spell slots into sorcery points and sorcery points into "additional" spell slots up to 5th level that disappear when you take a long rest.
Invocation: Aspect of the Moon - you never need to sleep.

When your party rests, you stay awake. Take eight short rests and turn the short rest spell slots into sorcery points, then into long rest spell slots. Do this in your downtime for more spell points than you can ever use. Your character thus has an arbitrary number of spell slots of 5th level and below and never needs to take a long rest for any reason.

[Requilac]

Mainly just curious. But also a bit to annoy the DM.

I would highly reccomned you not to do that, unless you want the tables to be turned on you suddenly when fizbop turns into an old woman and makes an opposed athletics check against you.

But aside from that, I know a simple way to do this that was established in another thread not too long ago. It is not really “breaking the game” very much but it should fulfill your intentions. The two-handed property for weapons only states that you need two hands to attack with it, not to hold with. Dual wielder does not say that it is incompatible with two-handed weapons. That means if you have dual wielder than you could use your main attacks to strike with a two-handed weapon, then you could use a free action to release one hand on that weapon and then you can draw a new weapon and attack with it using your bonus action because of two-weapon fighting. This causes your DPR to go through the roof and I know i would be highly pissed if one of my players tried to do this. You and brazenburn seem to troll each other a lot though so he will probably react much better to this than I.

[the_brazenburn]

[/COLOR]You and brazenburn seem to troll each other a lot though so he will probably react much better to this than I. [COLOR=#000080]

Oh, I will, will I? Actually, yeah, I probably will, as long as you don't abuse it too much.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

I'll assume the OP has good intentions. Knowledge is neutral.

Here's one for you, Ivor. It's hardly original and has been talked about often, but posting it here for completeness' sake.

The Coffeelock: Tome Warlock 3 / Sorcerer 2+

Warlock 3: you recover two 2nd level spell slots on a short rest.
Sorcerer: Flexible Casting - you may turn spell slots into sorcery points and sorcery points into "additional" spell slots up to 5th level that disappear when you take a long rest.
Invocation: Aspect of the Moon - you never need to sleep.

When your party rests, you stay awake. Take eight short rests and turn the short rest spell slots into sorcery points, then into long rest spell slots. Do this in your downtime for more spell points than you can ever use. Your character thus has an arbitrary number of spell slots of 5th level and below and never needs to take a long rest for any reason.

Cool thats pretty useful. I'll try that.
This causes your DPR to go through the roof and I know i would be highly pissed if one of my players tried to do this. You and brazenburn seem to troll each other a lot though so he will probably react much better to this than I. . Thanks for the info I have a dual wielder so I will try that. I and yes we do tend to troll each other a bit.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Also Brazenburn, you wouldn't dare harm poor fizbop, would you? :smalleek:

[Jerrykhor]

[COLOR=#000080]The two-handed property for weapons only states that you need two hands to attack with it, not to hold with. Dual wielder does not say that it is incompatible with two-handed weapons. That means if you have dual wielder than you could use your main attacks to strike with a two-handed weapon, then you could use a free action to release one hand on that weapon and then you can draw a new weapon and attack with it using your bonus action because of two-weapon fighting. This causes your DPR to go through the roof and I know i would be highly pissed if one of my players tried to do this. You and brazenburn seem to troll each other a lot though so he will probably react much better to this than I.

You can't do that. Two-Weapon Fighting rules: When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. Dual Wielder feat only removes the 'light' requirement.

[Requilac]

You can't do that. Two-Weapon Fighting rules: When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. Dual Wielder feat only removes the 'light' requirement.

You remove one hand from the two-handed weapon after you are done using your main attacks, that way you are only holding it in one hand. As I previously stated, two-handed weapons only require two hands to attack, so that means it possible they only require one hand to hold. You are still holding the weapon in one hand even if it is a two-handed weapon.

This is definitely not what the RAI are, but by a strictly RAW, rules lawyer approach this is perfectly possible.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Post some more guys. If I am prepared as a DM and see an abuse coming I can warn the player not to waste his time on something I'm not going to allow.

[Kane0]

You want to break the game? DMG Variant Flanking.

Simulacrum is also a popular go-to.

Oh, a funny one I like is expertise + advantage in Athletics followed up with as much movement as possible to drag creatures away from a fight to be dealt with later as they run back.

Edit: Oh, and there's this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?539861-The-Arcane-Programmer-Guide-(-Official-Rules-Technique-)).

[Mjolnirbear]

You remove one hand from the two-handed weapon after you are done using your main attacks, that way you are only holding it in one hand. As I previously stated, two-handed weapons only require two hands to attack, so that means it possible they only require one hand to hold. You are still holding the weapon in one hand even if it is a two-handed weapon.

This is definitely not what the RAI are, but by a strictly RAW, rules lawyer approach this is perfectly possible.

It's not the same RAW that I'm reading. Sure. You're holding your glaive or greatsword or longbow in one hand, but the restriction is also that the weapon be one-handed. And light.

And unlike Crossbow Expert, the rules specify they must be different hands.

As far as I can tell you can't even engage in fisticuffs with both hands unless you're a monk.

[greenstone]

Sharing weapons

First in inititative draws the magic sword, attacks with it, then drops it (free action).
Second picks up the weapon (free object interaction), attacks with it, then drops it (free action).
Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is related to the Peasant Railgun (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Peasant_Railgun).

The Flash

A Tabaxi Monk running at over 200 kph.

[Kane0]

They don't need to be standing next to each other either, they can move as part of that routine unlike in 3.X

[greenstone]

Dual wielder does not say that it is incompatible with two-handed weapons.

I'm pretty sure it does. The combat chapter and the feat chapter both use the phrase "one-handed melee weapon". The equipment chapter does not use that phrase but I don't think you can argue anything other than that a "one-handed weapon" is a weapon that does not have the "two-handed" tag.

If you want to cheese dual wielding then enlarge someone with two short swords then give those two swords (which now do extra damage) to someone who is not enlarged. The short swords are still, according to the rule, one-handed light melee weapons.

[Jerrykhor]

As far as I can tell you can't even engage in fisticuffs with both hands unless you're a monk.

You can... throw a punch once every 6 seconds lol.

[Easy_Lee]

You can... throw a punch once every 6 seconds lol.

To be fair, some boxing matches are slower than that. But I don't get why you can't punch a door any faster than you can punch a human.

[Tanarii]

You remove one hand from the two-handed weapon after you are done using your main attacks, that way you are only holding it in one hand. As I previously stated, two-handed weapons only require two hands to attack, so that means it possible they only require one hand to hold. You are still holding the weapon in one hand even if it is a two-handed weapon.

This is definitely not what the RAI are, but by a strictly RAW, rules lawyer approach this is perfectly possible.
Doesn't work. You have to attack with a light weapon that you're holding in one hand to get the bonus action. As in, the weapon must have the light property, and you have to attack with it in one hand.

You could, if you had the Dual Wielder feat and Extra Attack, make all your attacks except one with a 2H weapon, drop it, draw two one-handed weapons (with or without the light property), attack with one for your last attack, then use your bonus action to attack with the other.

There are some other arguable shenanigans related to combining Fighting Styles due to their wording, but I can't recall them off the top of my head.

[Personification]

Corollary to the peasant rail gun: If you make a ring of peasants (number is irrelevant) and have them pass a spear around the circle (free action) several times, you will eventually have that spear moving at relativistic speeds...

Another one: Make the line of peasants, but instead of throwing a spear, have them all hold hands and simultaneously jump, except for one of the end peasants, who will spin in a circle, still holding the hand of the adjacent peasant. The result is a 2 mile radius circle of death, in in which the guy on the opposite end is traveling at a speed of 2pi miles per second.

[GreatWyrmGold]

You want to break the game? DMG Variant Flanking.
If only there was some kind of mechanic which allowed for varying degrees of advantage, instead of a major all-or-nothing boost tied to several other abilities!



Peasant railgun!
I hate this with a passion. It requires using game logic to circumvent real logic until it's more convenient to use real logic to circumvent game logic.
Moreover, it doesn't make much sense. Everyone says that the object gets accelerated as it moves down the chain/circle of NPCs, but when is it actually accelerated? One NPC moves it, which involves acceleration, but also deceleration once it's near the next guy. It just doesn't make any sense if you think about it for more than a second, and it surely takes much longer than that to come up with in the first place.

[Mith]

You can... throw a punch once every 6 seconds lol.

The way I have always heard it is that you get 1 chance every 6 seconds of combat to land a hit due to postioning and dodging among combatants. Extra attack allows you to get more chances to hit.

It isn't perfect but combat isnt static.

[Jerrykhor]

The way I have always heard it is that you get 1 chance every 6 seconds of combat to land a hit due to postioning and dodging among combatants. Extra attack allows you to get more chances to hit.

It isn't perfect but combat isnt static.

Obviously, I was joking on that. I know D&D combat isn't a boxing simulator, or a historically accurate medieval fighting simulator.

[JackPhoenix]

I would highly reccomned you not to do that, unless you want the tables to be turned on you suddenly when fizbop turns into an old woman and makes an opposed athletics check against you.

But aside from that, I know a simple way to do this that was established in another thread not too long ago. It is not really “breaking the game” very much but it should fulfill your intentions. The two-handed property for weapons only states that you need two hands to attack with it, not to hold with. Dual wielder does not say that it is incompatible with two-handed weapons. That means if you have dual wielder than you could use your main attacks to strike with a two-handed weapon, then you could use a free action to release one hand on that weapon and then you can draw a new weapon and attack with it using your bonus action because of two-weapon fighting. This causes your DPR to go through the roof and I know i would be highly pissed if one of my players tried to do this. You and brazenburn seem to troll each other a lot though so he will probably react much better to this than I.

Doesn't work. TWF: "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand."

Dual Wielder changes the light weapon to one-handed weapon, two-handed weapon doesn't qualify. Also, RAW, you must hold the second weapon when you make the attack.

[qube]

Moreover, it doesn't make much sense. Everyone says that the object gets accelerated as it moves down the chain/circle of NPCs, but when is it actually accelerated? One NPC moves it, which involves acceleration, but also deceleration once it's near the next guy. It just doesn't make any sense if you think about it for more than a second, and it surely takes much longer than that to come up with in the first place.no no, accelleration has nothing to do with it the peasent chaingun:

consider 100 peasents in a line, each 5ft apart, passing an item down the line in 1 round.
that means you were able to obtain a speed of 100 x 5 ft / 6 seconds = 83 ft /s (=81 kpm)

[Requilac]

I am quite sure that you all are throroughly mistaken. I am currently looking at a printed PHB and the section definitely says “You can use two-weapon fighting even when the melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light”. It says nothing to specify that two-handed weapons do not work with it. In the next bullet it states that “You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one”, but the one-handed clause only applies to that bullet.

Are you guys reading an errated PHB or an online on? I am reading through the printed PHB published in 2014 right now and it definitely does not have that clause in it.

Edit: and another thing, some of you appeared to misunderstand part of my plan. The new weapon that you are drawing to attack with your bonus action is a normal one-handed weapon, not a two-handed one.

[JackPhoenix]

I am quite sure that you all are throroughly mistaken. I am currently looking at a printed PHB and the section definitely says “You can use two-weapon fighting even when the melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light”. It says nothing to specify that two-handed weapons do not work with it. In the next bullet it states that “You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one”, but the one-handed clause only applies to that bullet.

Are you guys reading an errated PHB or an online on? I am reading through the printed PHB published in 2014 right now and it definitely does not have that clause in it.

Edit: and another thing, some of you appeared to misunderstand part of my plan. The new weapon that you are drawing to attack with your bonus action is a normal one-handed weapon, not a two-handed one.

Dual Wielder, p. 165: "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light."

Emphasis mine.

[Requilac]

Dual Wielder, p. 165: "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light."

Emphasis mine.

What year was your PHB published in? Mine is 2014 version, did you get one that included the errata or does it have the same publication date as mine?

[JackPhoenix]

What year was your PHB published in? Mine is 2014 version, did you get one that included the errata or does it have the same publication date as mine?

First printing, August 2014.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

But I don't get why you can't punch a door any faster than you can punch a human.
Because you are not worried about the door hitting back:)

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Corollary to the peasant rail gun: If you make a ring of peasants (number is irrelevant) and have them pass a spear around the circle (free action) several times, you will eventually have that spear moving at relativistic speeds...

Another one: Make the line of peasants, but instead of throwing a spear, have them all hold hands and simultaneously jump, except for one of the end peasants, who will spin in a circle, still holding the hand of the adjacent peasant. The result is a 2 mile radius circle of death, in in which the guy on the opposite end is traveling at a speed of 2pi miles per second.

This is a great one why use weapons when you can use peasants.

[Unoriginal]

Ironically enough, only using one hand at a time when fighting unarmed is actually pretty realistic. All the striking martial arts and combat sports I know have one hand fort attack and one hand for defense/balance at any given time, even if which one does which changes depending on the position and technique the fighter is currently using. Even in a strike combo like a boxer's "one-two" the hand that's not used goes back to defense.

Dropping everything to attack many times in a flurry of blows is generally ill-advised, as it leaves you open against enemy attacks and it's hard to give impactful punches at this cadence (since what actually give a punch its power is the body's movements and momentum, not the arms).

[the_brazenburn]

Ironically enough, only using one hand at a time when fighting unarmed is actually pretty realistic. All the striking martial arts and combat sports I know have one hand fort attack and one hand for defense/balance at any given time, even if which one does which changes depending on the position and technique the fighter is currently using. Even in a strike combo like a boxer's "one-two" the hand that's not used goes back to defense.

Dropping everything to attack many times in a flurry of blows is generally ill-advised, as it leaves you open against enemy attacks and it's hard to give impactful punches at this cadence (since what actually give a punch its power is the body's movements and momentum, not the arms).

Perhaps applying the half-orc's Reckless attack to Flurry of Blows is in order...

[Unoriginal]

That being said, since doing combo with both arms are something you still see often in hand-to-hand, one might argue allowing an additional attack with your empty hand that uses up your bonus action, or maybe your Reaction, would be reasonable.

The thing is it would probably throw the Monk's maths out of whack or encourage people to do shenanigans for a few extra damages.

Speaking of unarmed combat, I'm wondering which NPC/sapient monster is the best at it, according to their unmodified statblocks.

[KorvinStarmast]

no no, accelleration has nothing to do with it the peasent chaingun:

consider 100 peasents in a line, each 5ft apart, passing an item down the line in 1 round.
that means you were able to obtain a speed of 100 x 5 ft / 6 seconds = 83 ft /s (=81 kpm)
The problem with the rail gun is that you have to assume that their initiative order goes from first to last all down the line.

[GreatWyrmGold]

no no, accelleration has nothing to do with it the peasent chaingun:

consider 100 peasents in a line, each 5ft apart, passing an item down the line in 1 round.
that means you were able to obtain a speed of 100 x 5 ft / 6 seconds = 83 ft /s (=81 kpm)
An average speed of 83 fps does not mean a final speed of 83 fps. That's basic physics. And, obviously, if it approaches that speed before the end of the line of peasants, it's basically impossible for a peasant to grab it and pass it on to the next guy.



Dual Wielder, p. 165: "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light."
Emphasis mine.
So...could you use a Versatile weapon with two hands (it's a one-handed weapon, even if it gets a bonus from two-handed use), do a couple of free actions, attack with a light weapon, dodge the DM's palm, and pull it off that way?

[iTreeby]

Here is a fun one.

First, Use the spell imprisonment in minnimus containment mode to trap a squirrel in gem with a release condition like "an army of seven nations pledges its eternal allegiance to me during a solar eclipse". Now that the squirrel will never be free...

Second, cast Magic Jar using the gem as the material component, now you are slightly safer using magic jar.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, actually...

The condition can be as specific or as elaborate as you choose, but the GM must agree that the condition is reasonable and has a likelihood of coming to pass.

[Requilac]

So...could you use a Versatile weapon with two hands (it's a one-handed weapon, even if it gets a bonus from two-handed use), do a couple of free actions, attack with a light weapon, dodge the DM's palm, and pull it off that way?

@JackPhoenix
I am going to be completely honest with you, my PHB without a doubt claims exactly this statement; “You can use two-weapon fighting even when the melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light”. It does not add in the one-handed clause you are talking about. My PHB was published in the same year as yours, so I have no idea what could possibly cause inconsistencies within the two books to occur but I have read over the feat multiple times and it says a different thing than your’s is saying. I do not know what else I can say in the matter.



But even if that is true, you can still use GreatWyrmGold’s method presented above. A versatile weapon is still technically a one-handed weapon. If you have proficiency in martial weapons and have extra attack than it only decreases your max DPR by 2 to use a versatile weapon with two-hands weapon instead of a two-handed wepaon.

[Tanarii]

So...could you use a Versatile weapon with two hands (it's a one-handed weapon, even if it gets a bonus from two-handed use), do a couple of free actions, attack with a light weapon, dodge the DM's palm, and pull it off that way?At least one attack must still be with it in one hand. To get the bonus action attack, even with the Dual Wielder Feat, you must make an attack with a weapon in one hand. The Dual Wielder Feat doesn't change that. All it does is remove the need for the weapon being used in one hand to have the Light property.

If you consider
X-1 attacks with versatile weapon 2H + 1 attack with versatile weapon 1H + 1 attack with another weapon 1H
> DPR than
X attacks with a 2H weapon

Yeah, as far as I can see, you can totally 2H your versatile weapon for all attacks except one, 1H it for one attack, then make an extra bonus action attack with a second weapon.

Certainly for a character that's going to have the Dual Wielder feat anyway, and use at least one versatile weapon in the process, it's a fairly small little extra boost for one round.

[The_Jette]

At least one attack must still be with it in one hand. To get the bonus action attack, even with the Dual Wielder Feat, you must make an attack with a weapon in one hand. The Dual Wielder Feat doesn't change that. All it does is remove the need for the weapon being used in one hand to have the Light property.

If you consider
X-1 attacks with versatile weapon 2H + 1 attack with versatile weapon 1H + 1 attack with another weapon 1H
> DPR than
X attacks with a 2H weapon

Yeah, as far as I can see, you can totally 2H your versatile weapon for all attacks except one, 1H it for one attack, then make an extra bonus action attack with a second weapon.

Certainly for a character that's going to have the Dual Wielder feat anyway, and use at least one versatile weapon in the process, it's a fairly small little extra boost for one round.

I don't know if you did the math for this one, but it doesn't work out that way. Suppose you are wielding a Greatsword (2d6) versus a Longsword (versatile 1d8/1d10) with a Shortsword (1d6) back up, and have a Strength of 20 to make everything even. In that case, with three attacks, you get:
(2d6+5)*3 = Avg dmg 36
(1d10+5)*2+1d10+5+1d6 = Avg 33 dmg + an angry DM.

Now, if you upgrade from a shortsword in your offhand to a longsword in your offhand, you go up to an avg of 34 dmg. Either way, using the one two-handed weapon gives a couple more points of damage, and doesn't piss off your DM.

[Tanarii]

I don't know if you did the math for this one, but it doesn't work out that way. i didn't suggest it was working out a particular way. I was pointing out the math involved.

Edit: that said, there are things that, for a specific character, will result in higher DPR from dual wielding instead of 2H. Which is why I made the point: if you're going to Dual Wielder Feat anyway ...

Also when doing damage math, always include hit chance in DPR comparisons. Eventually someone will bring GWM into the mix.

[Easy_Lee]

I don't know if you did the math for this one, but it doesn't work out that way. Suppose you are wielding a Greatsword (2d6) versus a Longsword (versatile 1d8/1d10) with a Shortsword (1d6) back up, and have a Strength of 20 to make everything even. In that case, with three attacks, you get:
(2d6+5)*3 = Avg dmg 36
(1d10+5)*2+1d10+5+1d6 = Avg 33 dmg + an angry DM.

Now, if you upgrade from a shortsword in your offhand to a longsword in your offhand, you go up to an avg of 34 dmg. Either way, using the one two-handed weapon gives a couple more points of damage, and doesn't piss off your DM.

Assuming dual wielder and the TWF fighting style and 20 strength on a level 11 fighter, it's 2d10+2d8+20 = 40 as opposed to normal TWF: 4d8+20 = 38. You've gained an average of two points of damage by sheathing one longsword, making two attacks with the other, drawing the longsword again (dual wielder allows two draws, can be taken at two different times depending on the ruling, or just drop one and pick it back up again) and making two attacks.

Or, you know, play a GWM Battlemaster, trip attack the target with the first attack, and do 6d6+15+20=56, or 8d6+20+30=78 damage if you got your bonus. Or be a CBE Sharpshooter and deal 4d6+20+40=74 damage from range, and pretty consistently given the +2 to hit from archery

[Unoriginal]

Here is a fun one.

First, Use the spell imprisonment in minnimus containment mode to trap a squirrel in gem with a release condition like "an army of seven nations pledges its eternal allegiance to me during a solar eclipse". Now that the squirrel will never be free...

Second, cast Magic Jar using the gem as the material component, now you are slightly safer using magic jar.

So, you're saying even a seven nation army couldn't hold you back?

[Ivor_The_Mad]

with a release condition like "an army of seven nations pledges its eternal allegiance to me during a solar eclipse".
the planets aligning is rarer. Thats how Fizbop will finally capture the ferocious Squirrel!!

[The_Jette]

Assuming dual wielder and the TWF fighting style and 20 strength on a level 11 fighter, it's 2d10+2d8+20 = 40 as opposed to normal TWF: 4d8+20 = 38. You've gained an average of two points of damage by sheathing one longsword, making two attacks with the other, drawing the longsword again (dual wielder allows two draws, can be taken at two different times depending on the ruling, or just drop one and pick it back up again) and making two attacks.

Or, you know, play a GWM Battlemaster, trip attack the target with the first attack, and do 6d6+15+20=56, or 8d6+20+30=78 damage if you got your bonus. Or be a CBE Sharpshooter and deal 4d6+20+40=74 damage from range, and pretty consistently given the +2 to hit from archery

When fighting with two weapons, even if you have Dual Wielding, you don't get to add your stat modifier to the second weapon. I left the TWF fighting style out of the equation to account for not everyone being a Fighter (or of a subclass that gets a fighting style), and to keep it simple.

[Mjolnirbear]

Two-weapon fighting: requires an one-handed attack with a light weapon during the attack action, permitting you to use a light melee weapon in the other hand.

Dual welder modifies the light requirement. Not the one-handed one. It still uses the Two-weapon fighting rules, simply modifiés them.

You can't use a polearm for the initial attack, because the initial attack must be made with one hand.

Interestingly enough, the bonus action attack has no one-handed property. It doesn't change anything though, because the offhand attack is only one hand, and you can't attack with a two-handed weapon with only one hand.

[TrinculoLives]

The problem with the rail gun is that you have to assume that their initiative order goes from first to last all down the line.

Not really, all the peasants simply take the Ready action on their turns and use their reactions to move the object down the line.

[Easy_Lee]

By the strictest of RAW, the railgun does work for moving a handheld object an arbitrary distance in six seconds. You could also transport a creature this way by shoving it down the line, provided it was able to fail its athletics checks.

However, the mechanics say nothing about whether your relativistic missile does extra damage when it gets to the end. A spear moved in this way might still deal only 1d6 damage. Ask your DM.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

You could also transport a creature this way by shoving it down the line, provided it was able to fail its athletics checks.
Could you launch peasants?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Yeah, 5 feet.

[Oramac]

something about making a clone army with wish and another spell

That's the Wish / Simulacrum shenanigans. I'm too lazy to explain it here, but I'm sure google has something on it.

As for other fun tricks...

- I'm not sure it's a trick, exactly, but my Tempest Sorcerer managed to piss off a DM pretty good when I one-shot his Mind Flayer Big Bad Guy at 5th level. The Tempest Cleric's Destructive Wrath combined with an upcast Chromatic Orb, Lightning Bolt, or any other lightning/thunder spell is incredibly good.

- By RAW, Contagion: Slimy Doom is obscenely overpowered.

- Bear-barian 3, Moon Druid 2+ is a hellacious tank at 5th level. Turn into a Giant Octopus and Rage. Resistance to damage, 15 foot reach, and auto-grapple. Your DM with love you.

I'm sure there's more creative stuff than these, but I'm at work and don't have time to dig em all up.

EDIT: added the 3rd option.

[XmonkTad]

Well, actually...
The condition can be as specific or as elaborate as you choose, but the GM must agree that the condition is reasonable and has a likelihood of coming to pass.

Huh, now that's still pretty exploitable. There are tons of things that have a 99.9+% chance of happening, but will happen so far into the future as to be irrelevant. Like a rotation of every gear in Mechanus.

[Easy_Lee]

A simple one for you: any summon creatures spell plus suggestion. Make up to eight attacks with your summons, then suggest the target to flee. Since the target flees with its own action, it triggers eight opportunity attacks.

Summon spells are, in general, subject to this sort of abuse. But it's not as broken as some other tricks.

[tsotate]

The problem with the rail gun is that you have to assume that their initiative order goes from first to last all down the line.
Just have the peasants spend their first few actions sorting themselves in initiative order. (Bonus if they do it as a peasant dance:
https://youtu.be/ywWBy6J5gz8)

It still doesn't work, because momentum doesn't exist in-game.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Just have the peasants spend their first few actions sorting themselves in initiative order. (Bonus if they do it as a peasant dance:
https://youtu.be/ywWBy6J5gz8)

It still doesn't work, because momentum doesn't exist in-game.

After they launch it they can do the conga.

[pagolin]

A simple one for you: any summon creatures spell plus suggestion. Make up to eight attacks with your summons, then suggest the target to flee. Since the target flees with its own action, it triggers eight opportunity attacks.

Summon spells are, in general, subject to this sort of abuse. But it's not as broken as some other tricks.

Doesn't quite work. Suggestion and every summon spell I know of are all concentration. I suppose it would work if you used a second caster though.

[tsotate]

Doesn't quite work. Suggestion and every summon spell I know of are all concentration. I suppose it would work if you used a second caster though.
Or used Dissonant Whispers instead of wasting a higher level slot to do what DW is specifically designed for.

[Easy_Lee]

Doesn't quite work. Suggestion and every summon spell I know of are all concentration. I suppose it would work if you used a second caster though.

Yes to the second caster. The best tricks you can pull in 5e involve teamwork.

Another good example of that: kobold wolf barbarian with mounted combatant riding a shapeshifted moon druid with Sentinel. Both have advantage on all attacks: pack tactics, wolf totem level 3. Melee attacks made against either will provoke an opportunity attack from the druid: Sentinel, Mounted Combatant lets rider redirect attacks to himself. Since the druid isn't getting hit with melee attacks, he's unlikely to lose concentration on his spells. Start combat by casting a summon spell and bonus action shape-shifting into your favorite animal.

This power combo can deal the damage of four fighters.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Huh, now that's still pretty exploitable. There are tons of things that have a 99.9+% chance of happening, but will happen so far into the future as to be irrelevant. Like a rotation of every gear in Mechanus.
You'd need to change out squirrels every few millennia, but it should work.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

That's the Wish / Simulacrum shenanigans. I'm too lazy to explain it here, but I'm sure google has something on it.
Yes thats exactly what I was thinking I can look that up later.

[Julio Silva]

Yes thats exactly what I was thinking I can look that up later.

The problem is.. Simulacrum/Wish doens't work well with Wizards. The Simulacrum runs without equipaments (No Spellbook avaiable. No spells avaiable).
While a Sorcerer using Wish: Simulacrum (Via casting or scroll) is automatically ready to fighting.

[JackPhoenix]

The problem is.. Simulacrum/Wish doens't work well with Wizards. The Simulacrum runs without equipaments (No Spellbook avaiable. No spells avaiable).
While a Sorcerer using Wish: Simulacrum (Via casting or scroll) is automatically ready to fighting.

Simulacrum doesn't require spellbook, except for rituals. It can't replenish spell slots anyway, so it doesn't matter it can't change spels. And presumably the wizard prepares whatever spells he wants the Simulacrum to have before creating it.

[Julio Silva]

Simulacrum doesn't require spellbook, except for rituals. It can't replenish spell slots anyway, so it doesn't matter it can't change spels. And presumably the wizard prepares whatever spells he wants the Simulacrum to have before creating it.

The Simulacrum is another creature and follow normal rules of Wizard (or anything duplicated) casting (It requires spellbook and prepare it previously or Spells Know). Yes, The Simulacrum has spell slots, but, can't prepare it without spellbook. The Simulacrum just can't regain expended spells slots.

[Chugger]

We're going back decades for this one - which I guess we called whale-bombing.

The polymorph spell in the original version of the game was not well defined or limited, and you could pretty much polymorph anything into anything.

So, we'd use various scrying spells on any and all buildings in the overworld of our DM's campaign - he'd made a fairly big one - and he also had a rule that if we could find a loophole or exploit in his system we could use it for one adventure, which - yes he'd not thought this through - was sort of defined as going back to the hero's main city to rest.

We got magic flying items. We'd go invis. And we'd fly over the towers and castles and cottages and other overworld dwellings our scrying had told us had badguys and probably treasure. We had a box full of mice. One of us would hold a mouse over the edge while the other turned it into a blue whale - and we had fly spells on in case a fluke knocked us off as the suddenly very surprised blue whale began its final plunge.

We had an army of peasants following us that became specialized in digging through mutilated whale flesh and rubble to find gold and whatnot. We did that til we got bored...and stopped playing, oh, for several months at least. We'd "broken" the game. When we came back, needless to say polymorph was no longer the same spell it had been. :smallbiggrin:

[Kane0]

I suppose the HGttG references would have become a little stale at that point too...

[Chugger]

I suppose the HGttG references would have become a little stale at that point too...

Heh, indeed, but ... we were breaking our friend's campaign a few years _before_ that book came out. This was also before AD&D. The pamphlet books - mine came in a white box with a set of dice!

Last week at an AL game I rolled a d20 for a d10 damage roll, and a kid said - your attack does 1d10, not 20. I said, "Kid back when I was your age, besides having to walk 600 miles uphill-both-ways to school in blinding blizzards, we had to make do with no ten-sided dice. They didn't exist. So we rolled a d20 and ignored the first digit if a two-digit # came up - i.e. a 17 is a 7." "Oh," he said, not terribly impressed. I stopped myself from telling him to keep off my lawn! :smallbiggrin:

[Kane0]

Oh you should have told him you used d6s for damage, didn't matter if it was a butterknife or a broadsword! That would have thrown him for a loop.

[Chugger]

Oh you should have told him you used d6s for damage, didn't matter if it was a butterknife or a broadsword! That would have thrown him for a loop.

Yeah, it would have! He's a nice kid - thought I was "cheating" sneaking in a d20 I think, though! Hah.

[JackPhoenix]

The Simulacrum is another creature and follow normal rules of Wizard (or anything duplicated) casting (It requires spellbook and prepare it previously or Spells Know). Yes, The Simulacrum has spell slots, but, can't prepare it without spellbook. The Simulacrum just can't regain expended spells slots.

The Simulacrum doesn't have to prepare spells. It has the same spells the original creature had at the moment of casting. It can't switch them, but that's not necessary.

[Foff]

I am quite sure that you all are throroughly mistaken. I am currently looking at a printed PHB and the section definitely says “You can use two-weapon fighting even when the melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light”. It says nothing to specify that two-handed weapons do not work with it. In the next bullet it states that “You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one”, but the one-handed clause only applies to that bullet.

Are you guys reading an errated PHB or an online on? I am reading through the printed PHB published in 2014 right now and it definitely does not have that clause in it.

Edit: and another thing, some of you appeared to misunderstand part of my plan. The new weapon that you are drawing to attack with your bonus action is a normal one-handed weapon, not a two-handed one.

So you're basically trying to make a fighter hit with his two handed weapon attacks then unsheathe his backup smaller sword for a finishing hit (samurai hacking with a 2h katana then unsheating his wakizashi to finish the job upclose and personal), nothing wrong with it in my book, I'd even allow it just for the "fun and cool" rule, even in the case (and i'm not saying it is) it shoudln't work by RAW

[Requilac]

So you're basically trying to make a fighter hit with his two handed weapon attacks then unsheathe his backup smaller sword for a finishing hit (samurai hacking with a 2h katana then unsheating his wakizashi to finish the job upclose and personal), nothing wrong with it in my book, I'd even allow it just for the "fun and cool" rule, even in the case (and i'm not saying it is) it shoudln't work by RAW

Well, from the apparently misprinted (?) book I was reading, it was legal by RAW. I might allow them to do this anyway too, assuming that the average damage of the second weapon was higher than or equal to the enemie’s current hit points. I would probably allow everyone to do a similar thing without dual wielder though. But regardlesss, the OP wanted the game to be broken and if the only thing that allows you to break it is DM fiat than it kind of defeats the purpose. Sorry Ivor, it seemed like a perfectly legal thing to do reading from my PHB but that appears to not be the case.

[Lucas Tucson]

The Simulacrum doesn't have to prepare spells. It has the same spells the original creature had at the moment of casting. It can't switch them, but that's not necessary.
No,

The Simulacrum is just another creature and It shares same statistic of the original, but, without equipaments (No Spellbook) and 1/2 hp. Absolutely nothing in the spell description says that The Simulacrum has previouly any prepared spells or active spells at the moment of casting.
The Simulacrum has 0 spells know (No Spellbook) and cannot prepare it. It must follow normal rules of Wizard Casting (It requires spell preparation and spellbook).


"It is just a new Wizard without a spellbook. It can't cast spells, only cantrips"

[DarkKnightJin]

No,

The Simulacrum is just another creature and It shares same statistic of the original, but, without equipaments (No Spellbook) and 1/2 hp. Absolutely nothing in the spell description says that The Simulacrum has previouly any prepared spells or active spells at the moment of casting.
The Simulacrum has 0 spells know (No Spellbook) and cannot prepare it. It must follow normal rules of Wizard Casting (It requires spell preparation and spellbook).


"It is just a new Wizard and lost its spellbook. It can't cast spells, just cantrips"

... Way to neuter an 7th level spell. Just tell your players that you will cast Book to Face if they try Wishulacrum BS.

[Lucas Tucson]

... Way to neuter an 7th level spell. Just tell your players that you will cast Book to Face if they try Wishulacrum BS.

The Sorcerer can use Wishulacum and cast spells normally (Simulacrum following normal rules of sorcerer casting) and just creat an army of Sorlacruns. It break the game, automatically banned.

[Gtdead]

No,

The Simulacrum is just another creature and It shares same statistic of the original, but, without equipaments (No Spellbook) and 1/2 hp. Absolutely nothing in the spell description says that The Simulacrum has previouly any prepared spells or active spells at the moment of casting.
The Simulacrum has 0 spells know (No Spellbook) and cannot prepare it. It must follow normal rules of Wizard Casting (It requires spell preparation and spellbook).


"It is just a new Wizard without a spellbook. It can't cast spells, only cantrips"

No, open the monster manual and see what "statistics" mean. Spells prepared are part of statistics.
The simulacrum doesn't need any piece of gear at all to function. The only thing it can't do is cast unprepared rituals.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Its the Wish/simulacrum that allows you to make an infinite clone army right?

[Easy_Lee]

Its the Wish/simulacrum that allows you to make an infinite clone army right?

Yes, you prepare wish, make a Simulacrum of yourself, and have the Simulacrum Wish for another Simulacrum. Repeat as needed. Your Simulacrums cannot recover spell slots, but that isn't a problem if you pull this trick on a Coffeelock after preparing a scroll of Wish, since you can spend a few months to store an arbitrary number of spell slots.

It's cheese.

[Lucas Tucson]

No, open the monster manual and see what "statistics" mean. Spells prepared are part of statistics.
The simulacrum doesn't need any piece of gear at all to function. The only thing it can't do is cast unprepared rituals.

Detail: Simulacrum isn't a monster Statistic. It is a duplicate of the creature (Character or Monster), then if you duplicate a monster with innate spellcasting (Ok, It doesn't require spellbook). Monsters doesn't require spellbooks.
But, If you is duplicating a character must follow normal rules of casting (Require time, spellbook and prepare spells previously).

[Lucas Tucson]

Yes, you prepare wish, make a Simulacrum of yourself, and have the Simulacrum Wish for another Simulacrum. Repeat as needed. Your Simulacrums cannot recover spell slots, but that isn't a problem if you pull this trick on a Coffeelock after preparing a scroll of Wish, since you can spend a few months to store an arbitrary number of spell slots.

It's cheese.
It's a hard cheese. If you abuse of Subtle Metamagic + Silence spell looks strong.

[Gtdead]

Detail: Simulacrum isn't a monster Statistic. It is a duplicate of the creature (Character or Monster), then if you duplicate a monster with innate spellcasting (Ok, It doesn't require spellbook). Monsters doesn't require spellbooks.
But, If you is duplicating a character must follow normal rules of casting (Require time, spellbook and prepare spells previously).

I don't see how that detail is relevant. Since the spell uses the word "statistics", it means exactly that, and the word is described in detail in the monster manual. The only exceptions should be specified. For example, the spell specifies that the simulacrum has half the health. That's it. Everything else is the same. And a spellbook isn't required for actual spellcasting.

Spells like shapechange use the same language. The character copies the statistics, and then the specifications follow, like that he can't use lair/legendary actions, or can't retain certain senses unless the new form supports them.

[Lucas Tucson]

I don't see how that detail is relevant. Since the spell uses the word "statistics", it means exactly that, and the word is described in detail in the monster manual. The only exceptions should be specified. For example, the spell specifies that the simulacrum has half the health. That's it. Everything else is the same. And a spellbook isn't required for actual spellcasting.

Spells like shapechange use the same language. The character copies the statistics, and then the specifications follow, like that he can't use lair/legendary actions, or can't retain certain senses unless the new form supports them.

The Simulacrum hasn't Monster's Innate Spellcasting. The Simulacrum must follow normal spell casting rules of character duplicated. (No Spellbook = 0 Spell know and can't prepare spells). The Simulacrum can't bypass normal spellcasting rules.


Special Traits

Special traits (which appear after a monster’s challenge rating but before any actions or reactions) are characteristics that are likely to be relevant in a combat enco
unter and that require some explanation.



Spellcasting

A monster with the Spellcasting special trait has a spellcaster level and spell slots, which it uses to cast its spells of 1st level and higher (as explained in the Player’s Handbook). The spellcaster level is also used for any cantrips included in the feature.

The monster has a list of spells known or prepared from a specific class. The list might also include spells from a feature in that class, such as the Divine Domain feature of the cleric or the Druid Circle feature of the druid. The monster is considered a member of that class when attuning to or using a magic item that requires membership in the class or access to its spell list.

A monster can cast a spell from its list at a higher level if it has the spell slot to do so. For example, a drow mage with the 3rd-level lightning bolt spell can cast it as a 5th-level spell by using one of its 5th-level greater or lesser threat than suggested by its challenge rating.

Innate Spellcasting

A monster with the innate ability to cast spells has the Innate Spellcasting special trait. Unless noted otherwise, an innate spell of 1st level or higher is always cast at its lowest possible level and can’t be cast at a higher level. If a monster has a cantrip where its level matters and no level is given, use the monster’s challenge rating.

An innate spell can have special rules or restrictions. For example, a drow mage can innately cast the Levitate spell, but the spell has a “self only” restriction, which means that the spell affects only the drow mage.

A monster’s innate spells can’t be swapped out with other spells. If a monster’s innate spells don’t require attack rolls, no attack bonus is given for them.

Psionics

[Naanomi]

Wait, are we arguing that stealing a wizard’s spellbook instantly prevents them from casting the spells they already have prepared? That thief Bonus-Action Slight of Hand is the ultimate wizard killer!

Also, for what it is worth, there is no such things as ‘relativistic speeds’ per se in the Great Wheel Cosmology. Spelljammers regularly exceed the speed of light without any difficulty or strange physics effects.

[Lucas Tucson]

Wait, are we arguing that stealing a wizard’s spellbook instantly prevents them from casting the spells they already have prepared? That thief Bonus-Action Slight of Hand is the ultimate wizard killer!

No, If The Wizard already prepared, He can cast normally.
But, The simulacrum can't prepare spells without a spellbook. (The Simulacrum is another creature and must follow normal spellcasting rules).
We are talking about the simulacrum without a spellbooks.

[Naanomi]

No, If The Wizard already prepared, He can cast normally.
But, The simulacrum can't prepare spells without a spellbook. (The Simulacrum is another creature and must follow normal spellcasting rules).
We are talking about the simulacrum without a spellbooks.
So it is a copy in every way (except as specifically called out by the spell), but not owning a spellbook currently retroactively removes the spells prepared from an otherwise perfect copy?

It isn’t preparing spells, it just already happens to have some prepared... I’m not seeing the reasoning...

[Lucas Tucson]

So it is a copy in every way (except as specifically called out by the spell), but not owning a spellbook currently retroactively removes the spells prepared from an otherwise perfect copy?

It isn’t preparing spells, it just already happens to have some prepared... I’m not seeing the reasoning...

Copying spellbooks costs gold (Expensive) and time.
This is my point, the simulacrum hasn't any previously prepared spell. (Why? Obviously! It isn't the Original, It's another creature without equipaments).

As ANOTHER CREATURE, It hasn't any previous prepared spell or previously active buff of the original. The simulacrum needs a spellbook, time preparation and material components to cast a spell.

[Naanomi]

As ANOTHER CREATURE, It hasn't any previous prepared spell or previously active buff of the original.
Why is there any discussion at all in the spell about inability to fill spell slots and the like if similacrums just can’t cast spells to begin with (since their spellslots apparently empty on creation)?

Or, if it is only Wizard spellcasting that causes this quirk; then this just makes this a Lore Bard trick instead of a Wizard trick yes?

[Lucas Tucson]

Why is there any discussion at all in the spell about inability to fill spell slots and the like if similacrums just can’t cast spells to begin with (since their spellslots apparently empty on creation)?

Or, if it is only Wizard spellcasting that causes this quirk; then this just makes this a Lore Bard trick instead of a Wizard trick yes?

Yes, only Wizard's spellcasting that cause this quirk. Lore Bard or Sorcerer trick instead of Wizard trick. True.

[Gtdead]

So your whole counterpoint is based on that since the character isn't a monster, the simulacrum can't retain it's prepared list even though the word statistics specifies that it involves spellcasting ability? Even when the spellcasting mechanism of both PCs and Monsters is exactly the same and is based on spellcaster levels?

So let's say that I have 2 friends. One is a player character, lvl 10 human wizard, and the other is a monster called George the Human Archmage, that has 10 wizard levels.

If I use simulacrum on the PC, the simulacrum needs to prepare the spells, but if I use it on George, it's ready to go?

[GreatWyrmGold]

You know what, how about we take the similacra stuff here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542762-Similacra-and-Spellcasting&p=22593994#post22593994) and hopefully get some outside input, and focus our efforts on debunking commoner railguns and maybe getting some new glitches in?


Not sure if this counts, but an ettin where one head dips barbarian and the other head is a monk would be ridiculously fast. There are ettin rules which allow that kind of thing.

[The_Jette]

So your whole counterpoint is based on that since the character isn't a monster, the simulacrum can't retain it's prepared list even though the word statistics specifies that it involves spellcasting ability? Even when the spellcasting mechanism of both PCs and Monsters is exactly the same and is based on spellcaster levels?

So let's say that I have 2 friends. One is a player character, lvl 10 human wizard, and the other is a monster called George the Human Archmage, that has 10 wizard levels.

If I use simulacrum on the PC, the simulacrum needs to prepare the spells, but if I use it on George, it's ready to go?

I think his point is that Wizards have to prepare spells from a spellbook. Since the Simulacrum of a wizard has to follow the rules for casting spells as a wizard, the Simulacrum would need to prepare its spells before being able to cast any. Since it doesn't have a spellbook (a la no equipment), it can't prepare any spells, thus can't cast any spells. This doesn't apply to Sorcerors or Bards, since they don't have to prepare spells.

I'm not saying I agree with him. I'm just doing my best to explain his argument to reduce the amount of "so what you're saying is..." posts that are popping up.

[Gtdead]

I think his point is that Wizards have to prepare spells from a spellbook. Since the Simulacrum of a wizard has to follow the rules for casting spells as a wizard, the Simulacrum would need to prepare its spells before being able to cast any. Since it doesn't have a spellbook (a la no equipment), it can't prepare any spells, thus can't cast any spells. This doesn't apply to Sorcerors or Bards, since they don't have to prepare spells.

I'm not saying I agree with him. I'm just doing my best to explain his argument to reduce the amount of "so what you're saying is..." posts that are popping up.

The thing is that I already answered that bit, which is why I'm doing the whole "so what you're saying is.." thing.

My argument is that since it copies the "statistics", it automatically includes prepared list.

It's fine to use cold game logic in innate casting, but we can't do it for wizard spellcasting? For example, a Bard simulacrum automatically knows how to channel his soul into his music and create magic, but a wizard simulacrum can't remember the verbal and somatic elements to cast a spell that it's clone was supposed to know at the time of it's creation?

[The_Jette]

The thing is that I already answered that bit, which is why I'm doing the whole "so what you're saying is.." thing.

My argument is that since it copies the "statistics", it automatically includes prepared list.

It's fine to use cold game logic in innate casting, but we can't do it for wizard spellcasting? For example, a Bard simulacrum automatically knows how to channel his soul into his music and create magic, but a wizard simulacrum can't remember the verbal and somatic elements to cast a spell he has prepared?

In that case you need to just accept that he sees things differently than you do. Otherwise, you're bogging down the Thread by trying to get him to change his opinion instead of moving on. Sometimes, RAW is unclear on things. The spell doesn't specifically say that the copy has the spells prepared that the wizard does. In that sense, it's unclear. You get your backup from the monster stats listing spells. He disregards that as only applying to monsters. Neither of you is necessarily wrong just because you feel differently towards the same spell.

[Unoriginal]

A spellcaster's statistics include their spell slots. If the caster the Simulacrum is imitating has spent a spell slot, the Simulacrum lacks it, and can't get it back.

So no, the "Simulacrum army" does not work, due to a lack of spell slot.

You could say "but what if magic items are used?", but spending that kind of time and money for a Simulacrum is just a waste.

[Aembrosia]

Abjuration wizard and one or two rings of spell storing. Cast abjuration spells from your ring into your ring to reset abjuring ward.

Ditto but with sorcerer metamagic. Use spare sorcery points over a tenday to give touch spells a million kilometer range. Keep extending a stored haste until it has a 24 hour duration.

[Lucas Tucson]

The_Jette, Thanks about it.




My argument is that since it copies the "statistics", it automatically includes prepared list.


Wrong, Monster's spellcasting doesn't apply. To prepare a spell, The Simulacrum must follow normal spellcasting as wizard and It requires spellbook.

Monster's spellcasting follow clear rules

Character's class spellcasting follow clear rules.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Abjuration wizard and one or two rings of spell storing. Cast abjuration spells from your ring into your ring to reset abjuring ward.

Ditto but with sorcerer metamagic. Use spare sorcery points over a tenday to give touch spells a million kilometer range. Keep extending a stored haste until it has a 24 hour duration.
That sounds hilarious, and I wish 5e wasn't so strict with magic items.
I mean, I get why they are, but it would be pretty cool if I could realistically pull this kind of thing off.

Also, goddammit guys, I made a shiny new thread for you to argue similacrums in!

[Gtdead]

A spellcaster's statistics include their spell slots. If the caster the Simulacrum is imitating has spent a spell slot, the Simulacrum lacks it, and can't get it back.

So no, the "Simulacrum army" does not work, due to a lack of spell slot.

You could say "but what if magic items are used?", but spending that kind of time and money for a Simulacrum is just a waste.

No need for magic items. It just requires the caster to have access to both Simulacrum and Wish. He uses simulacrum to create the first copy, but still has Wish available. The first simulacrum uses Wish: Simulacrum on the Wizard, creating a copy that can still cast Wish.

Simulacra chains are stupid anyway. One is more than enough to break the game at higher levels.

----

Anyway, to come back to the thread. According to https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/610955844918886400
Magic Missiles requires 1 roll, and creates multiple missiles that deal that damage.
Evoker has Empowered Evocation, so at max INT, each Magic Missile hits for 8.5 damage.
Upcasted lvl 2 Magic Missiles deal 34 damage, and a lvl 18 Wizard can cast them forever without expending spell slots.
Add a simulacrum to that, and we have a build that deals 68 dpr against ANYTHING that isn't immune to it.

For comparison, that's the average dpr a lvl 20 PAM/GWM Barbarian deals against 18 AC, or a lvl 20 Archer Fighter with SS against 12 AC.

----

Another favorite, again with a simulacrum's assistance, is force wall + persistent aoe damage. Encase someone into a force wall and cast cloudkill. You get more points if you use mordekainen's hound though.

[Aembrosia]

Be a gnomish arcane trickster. Put one foot in a 2lb mason jar. Cast reduce on yourself. Cast mage hand. Pick up the jar. Ascend into the heavens. Enjoy your new found sense of freedom, action + bonus action flying at third level.

Technically in full cover you might add to your dm while you hold your featherfall spell tightly.

[The_Jette]

Be a gnomish arcane trickster. Put one foot in a 2lb mason jar. Cast reduce on yourself. Cast mage hand. Pick up the jar. Ascend into the heavens. Enjoy your new found sense of freedom, action + bonus action flying at third level.

Technically in full cover you might add to your dm while you hold your featherfall spell tightly.

How much would a reduced Gnome weigh? Since your weight would be added to the 2lb mason jar, I think that would increase it beyond the 10lb weight limit...

[UrielAwakened]

You remove one hand from the two-handed weapon after you are done using your main attacks, that way you are only holding it in one hand. As I previously stated, two-handed weapons only require two hands to attack, so that means it possible they only require one hand to hold. You are still holding the weapon in one hand even if it is a two-handed weapon.

This is definitely not what the RAI are, but by a strictly RAW, rules lawyer approach this is perfectly possible.

It clearly says "Attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand."

If you were holding it in two hands when you attacked, you can't attack with your offhand. Doesn't matter if you're only holding it with one hand after the attack is over.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It looks like the lightest gnome you can play would be 37 pounds, and most will be around 40. Divide by eight and we get 7.5-8 pounds, barely in the weight limit.
They're also at minimum 3 feet tall, average 3'4", so...I don't have a good sense of how a jar's weight correlates to size, but I'm not sure an 18-20-inch gnome could fit comfortably inside of one.

[Naanomi]

It looks like the lightest gnome you can play would be 37 pounds, and most will be around 40. Divide by eight and we get 7.5-8 pounds, barely in the weight limit.
They're also at minimum 3 feet tall, average 3'4", so...I don't have a good sense of how a jar's weight correlates to size, but I'm not sure an 18-20-inch gnome could fit comfortably inside of one.
Kobolds are a bit lighter

[Aembrosia]

Players handbook bucket: 2lbs, holds 3 gallons (24lbs of water). 8 pound reduced gnome. Total of 10 pounds. Its really close but its in there. The rest im willing to suspend disbelief to make it look cool, or funny. Whats funnier, a jar or a bucket?

[GreatWyrmGold]

...Is it weird that I think the bucket would be funnier?

(And since glass is heavier than wood, it woodn't be large enough if it weighed the same.)

[Aembrosia]

Mmm... You're probably right. Buckets are pretty funny.

Hex your intelligence. Attempt to fail Amulet of the Planes checks to scatter your enemies across the planes. Use peerless skill, bend fate, bardic inspiration, guidance etc to return home. Banishment yourself back in combat scenarios if need be.

[Easy_Lee]

Here's a simple one any wizard or grassland druid can do: put Haste and Longstrider on the same party member. That person's movement speed becomes 80, same as an ancient red dragon's flight speed, and they can use the Haste action to dash if needed.

Now do this to a Longbow archer with Sharpshooter or a Warlock with Eldritch Spear. You now have a character who can move 240' per round (300' if the character can bonus action dash). This character is effectively unhittable, able to move outside just about any creature's effective range in one turn. The character can stay there and fire ranged attacks from afar (a longbow Sharpshooter has a range of 600').

As long as there is room to move, this combination is effectively unbeatable. The most obvious counter is cover, but players are patient.

[JackPhoenix]

No, If The Wizard already prepared, He can cast normally.
But, The simulacrum can't prepare spells without a spellbook. (The Simulacrum is another creature and must follow normal spellcasting rules).
We are talking about the simulacrum without a spellbooks.

Simulacrum doesn't have to prepare spells. It doesn't need spellbook either, because it can't prepare new spells anyway. It simply has all statistics of the original creature. Those statistic include spells prepared. It doesn't matter it's a different creature, it's exact copy (except half hp) of the original.

A wizard retains his prepared spells even if he loses his spellbook, or the spellbook is destroyed. A Simulacrum retains the prepared spells of the original caster, even if it never had a spellbook.

It just can't ever change those prepared spells even if it gains a spellbook later.

[Lucas Tucson]

What do you think about?

Coffelock shanenigans (Divine Soul 17/ Warlock 3)

1) Divine Soul takes free wings and metamagic and Wish (Duplicating Simulacrum).

2) The Sorlock keeps distance with Spell Sniper feat + Distant Spell Metamagic + Agonizing Eldrich Blast while blasting the enemie.

3) The Sorlock casts Distant (600 feet range?? OMG) / Heightened / Quicken Earth Bind (Str save or suck)

4) The Simulacrum casts Distant / Quicken Silence (Spellcaster's nighmare)

5) If the enemie can't fly... It isn't a challenge.

[Bahamut7]

Not quite sure if this would work but if it does, it belongs here.

Scenario: You are inside a Gelatinous Cube (Doh!) and have the spell Thunderwave prepared. If you use it and the cube fails the saving throw, is it instantly killed or does it have to spend a turn or more to reform?

Thunderwave:

A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you. Each creature in a 15-foot cube originating from you must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d8 thunder damage and is pushed 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn't pushed.

As a DM, I would rule instant kill because of how bada$$ this would be, but from a RAW, I am not sure. Of course, no one wants to be inside a Gelatinous Cube to begin with.

Edit: Asked my group and got an interesting response. The player who also DMs stated that " thunder damage is considered sonic damage aka sound. Being in the cube you are in a more dense medium and the sound would destroy your ear drums if it also didn't shatter your internal body cavaties." When asked if the damage was enough to finish off the Cube, "Yes it would die, but you would still probably suffer the above."

[JackPhoenix]

Not quite sure if this would work but if it does, it belongs here.

Scenario: You are inside a Gelatinous Cube (Doh!) and have the spell Thunderwave prepared. If you use it and the cube fails the saving throw, is it instantly killed or does it have to spend a turn or more to reform?

Thunderwave:

A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you. Each creature in a 15-foot cube originating from you must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d8 thunder damage and is pushed 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn't pushed.

As a DM, I would rule instant kill because of how bada$$ this would be, but from a RAW, I am not sure. Of course, no one wants to be inside a Gelatinous Cube to begin with.

Edit: Asked my group and got an interesting response. The player who also DMs stated that " thunder damage is considered sonic damage aka sound. Being in the cube you are in a more dense medium and the sound would destroy your ear drums if it also didn't shatter your internal body cavaties." When asked if the damage was enough to finish off the Cube, "Yes it would die, but you would still probably suffer the above."

RAW, it doesn't work. You cast the spell, the cube takes damage and moves 10'. That may or may not be enough to free you.

As a DM, I would rule that you can't cast at all, because you're restrained (= no somatic component) and can't breathe and thus speak.

[8wGremlin]

As a DM, I would rule that you can't cast at all, because you're restrained (= no somatic component) and can't breathe and thus speak.

You can homebrew that, and that's cool, but that's not the rules of restrained.


Restrained

A restrained creature’s speed becomes 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature’s Attack rolls have disadvantage.
The creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws.


It doesn't say anything about not being able to cast spells.

However, Incapacitated and Petrified do say that you can't take actions and thus wouldn't be able to cast spells.

[Bahamut7]

Upon checking the Cube's engulf ability, Gremlin is right, you would be restrained which would not prevent spell casting except for the verbal part. A great Old One Warlock with the spell could technically use his/her telepathy to get around the verbal limitation of being engulfed in side the cube.

But I didn't see your take on the outward force in all directions caused by thunderwave Jack.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Upon checking the Cube's engulf ability, Gremlin is right, you would be restrained which would not prevent spell casting except for the verbal part. A great Old One Warlock with the spell could technically use his/her telepathy to get around the verbal limitation of being engulfed in side the cube.

But I didn't see your take on the outward force in all directions caused by thunderwave Jack.

...Are you suggesting that telepathy is sufficient for a Verbal Component to a spell? No. Just.... no.

[JackPhoenix]

Upon checking the Cube's engulf ability, Gremlin is right, you would be restrained which would not prevent spell casting except for the verbal part. A great Old One Warlock with the spell could technically use his/her telepathy to get around the verbal limitation of being engulfed in side the cube.

It's pretty common houserule to have restrained condition prevent using somatic components. But, yes, the "I would rule" part indicates that it is not RAW.

Telepathy has nothing to do with the requirement to speak to cast a spell. Technically, being unable to breathe also doesn't prevent you from speaking or using verbal components per RAW. Also ruling on my side.


But I didn't see your take on the outward force in all directions caused by thunderwave Jack.


You cast the spell, the cube takes damage and moves 10'. That may or may not be enough to free you.

It's not "outward force in all direction". It's force in one direction, away from you to wherever you've oriented the Thunderwave to.

[Easy_Lee]

What do you think about?

Coffelock shanenigans (Divine Soul 17/ Warlock 3)

1) Divine Soul takes free wings and metamagic and Wish (Duplicating Simulacrum).

2) The Sorlock keeps distance with Spell Sniper feat + Distant Spell Metamagic + Agonizing Eldrich Blast while blasting the enemie.

3) The Sorlock casts Distant (600 feet range?? OMG) / Heightened / Quicken Earth Bind (Str save or suck)

4) The Simulacrum casts Distant / Quicken Silence (Spellcaster's nighmare)

5) If the enemie can't fly... It isn't a challenge.

Yes, that is indeed how to take all challenge out of the campaign and encourage your DM to send gods after you, while invalidating the rest of the party. I mean, if that's your thing.

[Bahamut7]

It's not "outward force in all direction". It's force in one direction, away from you to wherever you've oriented the Thunderwave to.

I will have to recheck the PHB when I get home but the roll20 copy of the spell does not imply only in one direction but implied that everything around you is pushed 10 ft away (barring failed save).

Thanks for the input. Hopefully, I never find myself in this situation as a player or DM (being engulfed just sucks) but do like to get a general consensus on odd stuff like this.

[GreatWyrmGold]

IIRC, the spell (or whichever spell he meant to name) does project force in all directions, it's just only one direction per creature. So, RAW, it would push the gelatinous cube 10 feet in whichever the direction was from you to the center of the cube. If it actually came up, and I had to go by RAW, I'd let the player choose which direction to shove the cube and say the caster made a 5-foot step within the cube beforehand or something.

[Lucas Tucson]

Yes, that is indeed how to take all challenge out of the campaign and encourage your DM to send gods after you, while invalidating the rest of the party. I mean, if that's your thing.

true, fair enough
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/cc/d7/e0/ccd7e0e55c78d81e6e177c906231f734.jpg

[Mellack]

For Thunderwave the caster is the origin of the cube, but not the center of it. It is not a power that extends from the caster in all directions. The caster is on one face of the cube and it projects outward in a single direction. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/13/thunderwave-spell-cube/

[PhoenixPhyre]

I will have to recheck the PHB when I get home but the roll20 copy of the spell does not imply only in one direction but implied that everything around you is pushed 10 ft away (barring failed save).

Thanks for the input. Hopefully, I never find myself in this situation as a player or DM (being engulfed just sucks) but do like to get a general consensus on odd stuff like this.


IIRC, the spell (or whichever spell he meant to name) does project force in all directions, it's just only one direction per creature. So, RAW, it would push the gelatinous cube 10 feet in whichever the direction was from you to the center of the cube. If it actually came up, and I had to go by RAW, I'd let the player choose which direction to shove the cube and say the caster made a 5-foot step within the cube beforehand or something.


For Thunderwave the caster is the origin of the cube, but not the center of it. It is not a power that extends from the caster in all directions. The caster is on one face of the cube and it projects outward in a single direction. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/13/thunderwave-spell-cube/

Mellack is correct here. Thunderwave (there's a spell with a similar name but a different area) is a close blast not a close burst (to borrow 4e's terminology). It projects outward in a 15-foot cube that has one face adjacent to the caster, not with its center on the caster. One key difference--the caster isn't affected unless they choose to center it above them, facing downward (why one would do that...not sure, even if that's allowed). A close blast (radiating outward in all directions from the caster) would affect the caster unless the spell specifically says otherwise.

In this case, I'd push the cube away, potentially freeing the caster (I'm AFB, but I seem to remember that push affects are specifically called out as being able to free the caster) just as if you thunderwaved a grappler away.

[Bahamut7]

Mellack is correct here. Thunderwave (there's a spell with a similar name but a different area) is a close blast not a close burst (to borrow 4e's terminology). It projects outward in a 15-foot cube that has one face adjacent to the caster, not with its center on the caster. One key difference--the caster isn't affected unless they choose to center it above them, facing downward (why one would do that...not sure, even if that's allowed). A close blast (radiating outward in all directions from the caster) would affect the caster unless the spell specifically says otherwise.

In this case, I'd push the cube away, potentially freeing the caster (I'm AFB, but I seem to remember that push affects are specifically called out as being able to free the caster) just as if you thunderwaved a grappler away.

Ok, being a blast makes sense for the sage advice, it still seems like a burst to me but that's the fun of table top. I would probably run it by my group and let them vote on how they want to play it if it came up, but that is homebrew and there for the sake of this thread, the trick would not work.

[JackPhoenix]

Mellack is correct here. Thunderwave (there's a spell with a similar name but a different area) is a close blast not a close burst (to borrow 4e's terminology). It projects outward in a 15-foot cube that has one face adjacent to the caster, not with its center on the caster. One key difference--the caster isn't affected unless they choose to center it above them, facing downward (why one would do that...not sure, even if that's allowed). A close blast (radiating outward in all directions from the caster) would affect the caster unless the spell specifically says otherwise.

In this case, I'd push the cube away, potentially freeing the caster (I'm AFB, but I seem to remember that push affects are specifically called out as being able to free the caster) just as if you thunderwaved a grappler away.

Iterestingly enough, if you're surrounded by enemies and aim the Thunderwave directly above you, they get thrown 10' in the air, take extra 1d6 damage upon landing, and fall prone.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Ok, being a blast makes sense for the sage advice, it still seems like a burst to me but that's the fun of table top. I would probably run it by my group and let them vote on how they want to play it if it came up, but that is homebrew and there for the sake of this thread, the trick would not work.

You can make it a burst-like effect (center it at your feet, pointing up) at the cost of possibly taking the damage yourself. It also reduces the extent to 7.5 feet on either side of you, but :shrug:


Iterestingly enough, if you're surrounded by enemies and aim the Thunderwave directly above you, they get thrown 10' in the air, take extra 1d6 damage upon landing, and fall prone.

If you aim it straight up starting at your head, then they have to be Large or bigger (because it starts 5' up). If you aim it straight up starting at your feet, then you are affected as well. Trade-offs, trade-offs...:smallcool:

[Finger6842]

Detail: Simulacrum isn't a monster Statistic. It is a duplicate of the creature (Character or Monster), then if you duplicate a monster with innate spellcasting (Ok, It doesn't require spellbook). Monsters doesn't require spellbooks.
But, If you is duplicating a character must follow normal rules of casting (Require time, spellbook and prepare spells previously).

Lucas, your argument doesn't pass the common sense test. What EXACTLY would be the purpose of a Wizard Simulacrum that can't cast spells? They are very expensive to create. I agree they can't learn new spells but if the original has alreayd known/prepared spells then the copy does as well.

[NecessaryWeevil]

If (for reasons that have yet to be explained) a simulacrum forgets all of its creator's prepared spells, does it forget other knowledge as well? Its name? Where it lives? How to tie its shoes? Who all these angry-looking people with swords are, and which ones are allies and which enemies?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Lucas, your argument doesn't pass the common sense test. What EXACTLY would be the purpose of a Wizard Simulacrum that can't cast spells?
Yes, what possible use would a rich, prominent figure have for someone who could pass for them, for anything from a boring formal dinner to an exciting assassination attempt?

[JackPhoenix]

If you aim it straight up starting at your head, then they have to be Large or bigger (because it starts 5' up). If you aim it straight up starting at your feet, then you are affected as well. Trade-offs, trade-offs...:smallcool:

Really depends on game, I suppose. In TotM style game, where you don't care that much about the grid, it should be possible to crouch and hit the surrounding enemies from waist up. Possibly even in grid-using game, if you could argue that your crouching put you under the 5' clearance (I remember when back in 3.5e days, my players triggered a trap. Blade swished through the corridor at 5' height. "Everyone roll dex save, take x damage"... "But my character is only 4'7" (minimum possible height for an elf, and yes, he rolled it, and had it written on the sheet)!" "All right... so, everyone takes x damage, except [the elf], who only gets a new haircut."

[Naanomi]

Yes, what possible use would a rich, prominent figure have for someone who could pass for them, for anything from a boring formal dinner to an exciting assassination attempt?
Seems like something that magic a little less than 12 hours, a 7th level spell slot, and 1,500g could solve; at least for someone who has access to all of those things

[PhoenixPhyre]

Really depends on game, I suppose. In TotM style game, where you don't care that much about the grid, it should be possible to crouch and hit the surrounding enemies from waist up. Possibly even in grid-using game, if you could argue that your crouching put you under the 5' clearance (I remember when back in 3.5e days, my players triggered a trap. Blade swished through the corridor at 5' height. "Everyone roll dex save, take x damage"... "But my character is only 4'7" (minimum possible height for an elf, and yes, he rolled it, and had it written on the sheet)!" "All right... so, everyone takes x damage, except [the elf], who only gets a new haircut."

I'd be inclined to give this to the player, once or twice. If it becomes a go-to tactic I'll talk to them about it, same as with any other one-note tactic. Certainly if they first go prone (which you can do without spending a full action), but then they're prone with all the advantages and disadvantages of that status.

[Renduaz]

I broke D&D to chips several times now. Just name your wish - Total invincibility for 10 rounds with full spellcasting? Time-Travel? Unlimited telepathic bond? Living as God in your own eternally protected infinite plane with immortality? Generating more energy than a modern power plant in minutes? Leveling entire cities to dust or destroying the universe? Instantly killing or trapping something without even affording it a saving throw? Infinite Gold? Take your pick, here's all the published material so far, some of which contain the aforementioned things:

Cantrips v1
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?519713-The-God-of-Cantrips-Most-overpowered-uses-you-can-think-of)

Cantrips v2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?524713-The-God-of-Cantrips-v2)


The Adventurer's Guide to Abusing Monsters (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yGW6B68wAsR42Eo4qbg9TK8x10RcQsH2R1lQIoCiE3Y/edit)

Spell combos and useful info (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526078-A-list-of-30-core-spell-exploits)

Forcecage Invincibility (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528162-The-Invincible-Caster-(-Invoke-Duplicity-Etherealness-Forcecage-Other-))


A Wizard with something close to 5% of even being hit and who can basically save and resist almost anything (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?533093-The-Defensive-Wizard-Strategy-Build)

Environmental Warfare and Utility (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?538286-Environmental-Warfare-and-Utility)

The energy generator (https://i.imgur.com/9oTxcW3.png)

Tenser's Skystrider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?519916-Tenser-s-Skystrider-build-your-own-bomber-plane-at-level-1-using-core-rules)

Only two of the things I've listed are missing from these links, the trap and the insta-killer ( Although credit to someone who I've talked with for a while for actually inventing the first idea and we ironed it out together ), I'll explain them rather quickly to spare time:

Insta-Trap - You need a Forcecage and a Wish for Mordekainen's Private Sanctum ( A simulacrum will even allow you to do both at the same turn ). Begin by casting a Wished Private Sanctum in the form of a cube which, being perhaps as much as a few centimeters larger, will enclose the Forcecage externally once it is cast. Proceed to cast the Forcecage itself within that area. Your target is now unable to use it's Charisma saving throw in order to teleport outside of the cage, since the Private Sanctum layer is preventing anything from teleporting into or out of it's area. Anything without Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field is currently locked for an hour irrevocably without a saving throw.

In order to make it completely foolproof against even Dispels ( Against the Sanctum from within the cage itself ) or Antimagic Field ( Against both Sanctum and Cage ), A final component, whether through another party member or minion or your/Simulacrum's remaining Wish, is the Silence spell. For this, begin with creating the Silence ( So that it is already within the future Forcecage, rather than being cast into it's barrier ) on an enemy, followed shortly by the Cage and Sanctum, and maintain concentration for 10 minutes.

Insta-Killer - Create a Demiplane. Place as many damaging Symbols/Glyphs of Warding as humanly possible right near the doorstep. Set it to trigger when the creature or creatures of your choice are within 60 feet of those glyphs. Fast forward to an encounter. Erect a Wall of Stone ( or not, if you already have a smooth vertical surface ) or place something, etc.. directly behind your target, then ( With a Simulacrum or otherwise ) cast the Demiplane door on that wall right behind him. He is now within 60 feet of a hundred glyphs and his life is forfeit. If your DM is mentally challenged and doesn't understand what "feet" as a 3rd-dimensional measurement unit means ( Protip: If you can put one foot in front of the other and enter a Demiplane doorway, then by definition the floor of that Demiplane is within tha given number of feet from you, and if it weren't, then you would never be able to enter it as a 3-dimensional creature ), then it's slightly more timely, but that idiocy can still be accommodated.

If your target is Medium, do the following - You'll need two walls of Stone. ( Although there are many other ways to shape surfaces, this is just the simplest ). If you want it all done on a single turn, use Time Stop ( Breaks when it affects a creature ). With Time Stop in motion, create the first wall behind a target, create the Demiplane door on it, And then cast Wall of Stone again ( Nothing says that a Demiplane's door requires a surface to persist, only that it must be cast on one to appear, but if we are dealing with the same mentally challenged individual, just have your Simulacrum do this or the next party member in order after cutting off Time Stop ) except this time, making it cut through the target's space. When that happens, you get to choose which side of the wall he gets pushed 5 feet away from, no saving throw or anything. You guessed it, you're gonna push him straight into the doorway to the Demiplane present right behind him on the first Wall of Stone.

If the target is larger, and if a DM still doesn't know the definition of feet, then all you need to do in the course of a fight is get a single leg, finger or any other part of said creature through the perfectly awaiting doorway, in order for him to be directly on the glyphs and therefore obliterated by all accounts.

[Albert_Newton]

No,

The Simulacrum is just another creature and It shares same statistic of the original, but, without equipaments (No Spellbook) and 1/2 hp. Absolutely nothing in the spell description says that The Simulacrum has previouly any prepared spells or active spells at the moment of casting.
The Simulacrum has 0 spells know (No Spellbook) and cannot prepare it. It must follow normal rules of Wizard Casting (It requires spell preparation and spellbook).


"It is just a new Wizard without a spellbook. It can't cast spells, only cantrips"

A wizard only needs a spellbook to prepare new spells; it doesn't need a spellbook to cast the spells it has prepared.

[Albert_Newton]

If you managed to get 3 strength, jumping would push you 1 foot into the earth! (jump height = 3 + str mod feet, 3 - 4 = -1!) And that's how to get to the centre of the earth without special equipment...
And here is how to kill the Tarrasque with a 5th level spell slot and someone who can cast "Acid Splash":

"Slimy Doom," one of the example Contagions, does this:
Slimy Doom: The creature begins to bleed uncontrollably. The creature has disadvantage on Constitution checks and Constitution saving throws. In addition, whenever the creature takes damage, it is stunned until the end of its next turn.
You put slimy doom on the tarrasque, and survive until you can deal damage to it. Then, it is stunned. When you are stunned:
•A stunned creature is incapacitated (can't take actions or reactions), can’t move, and can speak only falteringly.
•The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
•Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
You know what that means? Specifically, the automatic failing of dexterity saving throws? It means that, each round, you cast "Acid Splash" on the Tarrasque and each round it automatically fails the saving throw, so it is stunned again! AND, it also has disadvantage on the saving throws to end Slimy Doom (check above) and so you will probably have 7 days to kill a Tarrasque using acid splash and 1 contagion. And that's something worth bragging about.

Note Bene (note well in Elvish):
I am not responsible for the results of any rule-misusing actions taken as a result of this thread, unless those results are positive.

[Kuulvheysoon]

If you managed to get 3 strength, jumping would push you 1 foot into the earth! (jump height = 3 + str mod feet, 3 - 4 = -1!) And that's how to get to the centre of the earth without special equipment...
And here is how to kill the Tarrasque with a 5th level spell slot and someone who can cast "Acid Splash":

"Slimy Doom," one of the example Contagions, does this:
Slimy Doom: The creature begins to bleed uncontrollably. The creature has disadvantage on Constitution checks and Constitution saving throws. In addition, whenever the creature takes damage, it is stunned until the end of its next turn.
You put slimy doom on the tarrasque, and survive until you can deal damage to it. Then, it is stunned. When you are stunned:
•A stunned creature is incapacitated (can't take actions or reactions), can’t move, and can speak only falteringly.
•The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
•Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
You know what that means? Specifically, the automatic failing of dexterity saving throws? It means that, each round, you cast "Acid Splash" on the Tarrasque and each round it automatically fails the saving throw, so it is stunned again! AND, it also has disadvantage on the saving throws to end Slimy Doom (check above) and so you will probably have 7 days to kill a Tarrasque using acid splash and 1 contagion. And that's something worth bragging about.

Note Bene (note well in Elvish):
I am not responsible for the results of any rule-misusing actions taken as a result of this thread, unless those results are positive.

Doesn't work that way. JC has confirmed in tweets (and maybe Sage Advice?) that the target of contagion needs to fail all three saves before the disease takes effect.

[No brains]

Doesn't work that way. JC has confirmed in tweets (and maybe Sage Advice?) that the target of contagion needs to fail all three saves before the disease takes effect.

Also with +10 to con saves and 3 legendary resistances, getting the tarrasque infected is going to take more than one spell slot. Slimy doom is a slimy move, but it's not quite that slick.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

I can't wait to abuse all the new spells in Xanthars!

[ParadoxiusTime]

9 simple steps to create a weapon to end the universe.
1. Get a fifth level wizard.
2. Obtain about 120,600gp of diamond dust and incense.
3. Have the wizard have the spells "Glyph of warding" and "enlarge/reduce".
4. Have the wizard cast "Glyph of warding" with the spell storing option.
5. Make the spell stores be "enlarge/reduse" set to enlarge mode.
6. Set the trigger to activate only after a special password is said with intent to activate the glyphs. (Make the trigger whatever you want, It works best if the activator/victim is willing)
7. Repeat the spell over the minimum period of 200 days to cast the spell up to 603 times. The first day you can cast of 6 times because proceeding days you can only regain spell slots and abilities from 1 long rest.
8. Once you have the spell cast on relatively the same spot, preferably outside, 603 times or more, activate them and send the willing participant to activate the glyphs.
9. Watch as the participant doubles in size 603 time becoming so large that they would be bigger than the observable universe, in fact they would be larger than the number of atoms in the universe if each was an observable universe. Reaching the entire size in only 6 seconds. Simply put you end the entirety of the universe.

Notes- whoever you use as the "willing participant" will die, unless they can survive literally touching every dangerous thing in the universe. There size in multiplied by 2^603, but their mass is multiplied by 8^603 so not only would they expand massively but soon after they would collapse into themselves. If anything survives the massive expansion of the "willing participant" they won't survive the powerful gravity the "willing participant" would now have. Keep in mind you are also ending the universe with a 5th level wizard. The process can be faster if done by multiple 5th level wizards or higher level wizards or both.

Warning- before the "willing participant" expands, I recommend traveling to if possible any other plane of existance. There won't be a material plane anymore or what's left of it will be crushed uterally. The "willing participant" won't survive (unless immune to damage for at least 1 minute) and you won't if they expand (of course unless you are immune to damage for at least 1 minute.)

Reward- congratulations you just killed everything's and ended the universe. Hopefully your DM realizes this, because that's enough experience to not only instantly level you to level 20 but also you could easily(if DM approved) obtain all of the boons from the DM Guide. Sadly loot is less likely considering anything not indestructible is likely to have been crushed.

[JackPhoenix]

9 simple steps to create a weapon to end the universe.
1. Get a fifth level wizard.
2. Obtain about 120,600gp of diamond dust and incense.
3. Have the wizard have the spells "Glyph of warding" and "enlarge/reduce".
4. Have the wizard cast "Glyph of warding" with the spell storing option.
5. Make the spell stores be "enlarge/reduse" set to enlarge mode.
6. Set the trigger to activate only after a special password is said with intent to activate the glyphs. (Make the trigger whatever you want, It works best if the activator/victim is willing)
7. Repeat the spell over the minimum period of 200 days to cast the spell up to 603 times. The first day you can cast of 6 times because proceeding days you can only regain spell slots and abilities from 1 long rest.
8. Once you have the spell cast on relatively the same spot, preferably outside, 603 times or more, activate them and send the willing participant to activate the glyphs.
9. Watch as the participant doubles in size 603 time becoming so large that they would be bigger than the observable universe, in fact they would be larger than the number of atoms in the universe if each was an observable universe. Reaching the entire size in only 6 seconds. Simply put you end the entirety of the universe.

Notes- whoever you use as the "willing participant" will die, unless they can survive literally touching every dangerous thing in the universe. There size in multiplied by 2^603, but their mass is multiplied by 8^603 so not only would they expand massively but soon after they would collapse into themselves. If anything survives the massive expansion of the "willing participant" they won't survive the powerful gravity the "willing participant" would now have. Keep in mind you are also ending the universe with a 5th level wizard. The process can be faster if done by multiple 5th level wizards or higher level wizards or both.

Warning- before the "willing participant" expands, I recommend traveling to if possible any other plane of existance. There won't be a material plane anymore or what's left of it will be crushed uterally. The "willing participant" won't survive (unless immune to damage for at least 1 minute) and you won't if they expand (of course unless you are immune to damage for at least 1 minute.)

Reward- congratulations you just killed everything's and ended the universe. Hopefully your DM realizes this, because that's enough experience to not only instantly level you to level 20 but also you could easily(if DM approved) obtain all of the boons from the DM Guide. Sadly loot is less likely considering anything not indestructible is likely to have been crushed.

Same spell cast multiple times doesn't stack. Congratulation, you've used pile of diamond dust and better part of a year to double someone's size the same way a single Enlarge would.

Edit: Whoops, necro thread.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: No loophole will raise a thread from the dead.