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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next I am a mad man: Converting Saga Edition to 5e [PEACH]



Llama513
2017-11-20, 04:56 PM
This is going to be a long running project, I am going to work on one book at a time, and am at the moment just starting by getting the species information in and starting to convert over to 5e convention, any and all advice is appreciated. I will be posting the links to each of the homebrewery here labeled by what book they are, I will also be updating progress on the books as I go.

Page that leads to others
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1ZBJe-fgf

General Material: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1Zxh_hglf
Adding more Equipment, formatting will be fixed after the equipment is in.

Force Users: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1XT-u15gz
First draft done

Non-Force Users: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkQaSUGvzG
First draft done

Force System Work: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Hy--GMoazM
Developing a new system for the Force This has been integrated into the system

Giegue
2017-11-20, 05:38 PM
Somebody already made 5e Star Wars, though its quality in some places is dubious at best. Mainly the force users; the Jedi seems super broken, and they unfairly lumped everything that isn't a Jedi into the same "adept" class. However, despite this, its a solid base to work off of, and if your interested I started working on custom force-user classes for 5e star wars to replace the bad ones from this conversion a while ago, though I never got too far with them. (the farthest I got was almost finishing the Consular class, albiet not at any semblance of balance.) If you wish, I can help you out with this, specificly showing you what I had for force users so we can tweek them togther, as well as using the actual star wars 5e conversion for inspiration.

The 5e conversion can be found in my 4shared (https://www.4shared.com/account/home.jsp), or if you think 4shared links are spooky the creator's personal scribid (https://www.scribd.com/doc/278947931/Star-Wars-D-D-5th-Edition-Conversion-PF).

Likewise, you can find my start to the Consular class here. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SXuBPYWrw8MhSuDVAp1PDLvqBRIQrIEb6JsECK0RO4U/edit?usp=sharing) Note that none of the powers are started out, and neither is the last archetype. I will continue work once I know your stance on things. (and some of the features are likely way, way too OP)

Llama513
2017-11-20, 05:41 PM
Somebody already made 5e Star Wars, though its quality in some places is dubious at best. Mainly the force users; the Jedi seems super broken, and they unfairly lumped everything that isn't a Jedi into the same "adept" class. However, despite this, its a solid base to work off of, and if your interested I started working on custom force-user classes for 5e star wars to replace the bad ones from this conversion a while ago, though I never got too far with them. (the farthest I got was almost finishing the Consular class, albiet not at any semblance of balance.) If you wish, I can help you out with this, specificly showing you what I had for force users so we can tweek them togther, as well as using the actual star wars 5e conversion for inspiration.

The 5e conversion can be found in my 4shared (https://www.4shared.com/account/home.jsp), or if you think 4shared links are spooky the creator's personal scribid (https://www.scribd.com/doc/278947931/Star-Wars-D-D-5th-Edition-Conversion-PF).

Likewise, you can find my start to the Consular class here. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SXuBPYWrw8MhSuDVAp1PDLvqBRIQrIEb6JsECK0RO4U/edit?usp=sharing) Note that none of the powers are started out, and neither is the last archetype. I will continue work once I know your stance on things. (and some of the features are likely way, way too OP)

Thank you very much for the information, I will look at it when I have time, I think I will use his races as a base but I am going to be adding to them, and re balancing them since there are some that are obviously stronger then the others

Llama513
2017-11-20, 06:06 PM
After thinking it over and talking with a friend of mine, I have come to the conclusion that I am going to split the material into 4 sections, the first being the generic world stuff, races, planets, equipment that kind of thing. The second being into the force users, the classes and abilities associated with them, this will be split into two sections, based on the side of the force used, and the last section being the classes and abilities for non-force sensitive characters/classes, the other option is to simply not have non-force sensitive classes but that is boring

Giegue
2017-11-20, 06:06 PM
Alright, I suppose then I should start trying to finish the consular and start fleshing out the Guardian (melee/lightsaber focused force user, based quite heavily on the Paladin) beyond a half-finished table?

Llama513
2017-11-21, 12:22 PM
Alright, I suppose then I should start trying to finish the consular and start fleshing out the Guardian (melee/lightsaber focused force user, based quite heavily on the Paladin) beyond a half-finished table?

I'm planning on trying to recreate something close to the casters with the force users, while the non force users will fill the role that is held by the Barbarian, non caster fighters and rogues, Monks I think will be covered by both sides, although I could give monk to just the non-force users, since most of the best martial artist of that nature are non force users, who developed there skill to super human levels to contest force users

Llama513
2017-11-21, 02:36 PM
Made a master page that links to the other sections of the conversion

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1ZBJe-fgf

Giegue
2017-11-21, 03:18 PM
Yeah, I was straight up just making the force users work like 5e casters, but with force points/spell points instead of spell slots. The Consular, if you didn't see, was a combination of cleric and sorcerer mechanics, while the Guardian (gish/saber focused force user) was pretty much going to be a derivative of the Paladin. (though wisdom-based for lightsiders, as thematically I always felt light side force users would be wis-based, while dark side ones would be cha-based.)

Llama513
2017-11-21, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I was straight up just making the force users work like 5e casters, but with force points/spell points instead of spell slots. The Consular, if you didn't see, was a combination of cleric and sorcerer mechanics, while the Guardian (gish/saber focused force user) was pretty much going to be a derivative of the Paladin. (though wisdom-based for lightsiders, as thematically I always felt light side force users would be wis-based, while dark side ones would be cha-based.)

Makes sense

SkipSandwich
2017-11-22, 04:10 PM
I've been working on a similar project myself to update d20 Modern to 5e standard, so I can definitely respect what you are trying to do here. Some things that stand out though;

The Pistol expert feat allows you to ignore the loading penalty of pistols, but there are no pistols that have the loading quality.

With the lack of Exotic weapon opportunity costs in 5e, there is no reason to take paired Light weapons over a Double weapon as you have stated up the Double property. What I did was lower the base damage die, then gave every Double weapon the Versatile property, allowing the wielder to switch between making two Light weapon equivalent attacks or a single one-handed equivalent attack on the fly. I also came up with the idea of Active Weapon Abilities, to describe things such as Ready Vs. Charge and Tacking cover behind a tower shield, the idea being that some weapons can be used in multiple different ways, but you must chose only one of those ways each turn.

For Example, my revised Quarterstaff

Quarterstaff: 1d6 Bludgeoning damage - Two-Handed, Double(A)(1d4), Versatile(A)(1d8)

Double: This weapon has striking areas on each end, as such a proficient user who is wielding the weapon in two hands may attack with each end as if fighting with paired Light weapons (see Two-Weapon fighting). The damage dealt by the "off-hand" end is listed in parenthesis. Double is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn you must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

Versatile: This weapon is capable of being wielded with one or two hands. When wielding this weapon with two hands, the base damage dealt by the weapon increases, with the new damage die listed in parenthesis after the trait. Versatile is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

Llama513
2017-11-23, 10:56 PM
I've been working on a similar project myself to update d20 Modern to 5e standard, so I can definitely respect what you are trying to do here. Some things that stand out though;

The Pistol expert feat allows you to ignore the loading penalty of pistols, but there are no pistols that have the loading quality.

With the lack of Exotic weapon opportunity costs in 5e, there is no reason to take paired Light weapons over a Double weapon as you have stated up the Double property. What I did was lower the base damage die, then gave every Double weapon the Versatile property, allowing the wielder to switch between making two Light weapon equivalent attacks or a single one-handed equivalent attack on the fly. I also came up with the idea of Active Weapon Abilities, to describe things such as Ready Vs. Charge and Tacking cover behind a tower shield, the idea being that some weapons can be used in multiple different ways, but you must chose only one of those ways each turn.

For Example, my revised Quarterstaff

Quarterstaff: 1d6 Bludgeoning damage - Two-Handed, Double(A)(1d4), Versatile(A)(1d8)

Double: This weapon has striking areas on each end, as such a proficient user who is wielding the weapon in two hands may attack with each end as if fighting with paired Light weapons (see Two-Weapon fighting). The damage dealt by the "off-hand" end is listed in parenthesis. Double is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn you must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

Versatile: This weapon is capable of being wielded with one or two hands. When wielding this weapon with two hands, the base damage dealt by the weapon increases, with the new damage die listed in parenthesis after the trait. Versatile is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

While I really like that option, what I think I am going to do is drop the damage of the saberstaff to be a d6 so that it is equivalent to fighting with two shoto sabers

Llama513
2017-11-27, 01:11 PM
This project is still running, I just am off of break and back to classes so progress will be slowed

Llama513
2017-11-27, 03:26 PM
Early work on the classes has begun I am just getting the descriptions in at the moment, though I think I am going to work on finishing up the Lightside classes as both a guide and decider on whether or not to keep things separated by which side of the force is used, or if I should combine the classes and simply have archetypes that match the different sides of the force, I think I figured out what to do with the Grey, I am going to change it from being the Grey to simply being the other force organizations besides the Jedi and Sith, that way I can have much more to work with, and don't have to worry about finding as much material

Llama513
2017-11-27, 10:29 PM
Jedi Guardian, class first draft entered, I will be entering in the other Jedi Classes soon, followed by the force powers available to these classes

Llama513
2017-11-29, 01:00 PM
First draft of Jedi classes are all in, the core book powers are in, the other book powers are on the way, and I am going to work through the spells from D&D and bring in those that make sense

Also going to make lightsabers deal more damage, as they should be roughly on par with blasters, and they aren't at the moment, also going to add the rules for creating sabers, and the other variants in hopefully those will be in today

For those that haven't seen it here is the link to the Force User section of the edition

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1XT-u15gz

Llama513
2017-12-03, 07:06 PM
The Force Powers have all been entered and assigned to the Jedi Classes, monkesque Jedi class is in

Llama513
2017-12-16, 03:14 PM
Almost done with the force users, will be starting on the non force users after I'm satisfied with the force users

Llama513
2017-12-19, 01:16 AM
The Force Users are done

Llama513
2017-12-20, 10:29 PM
The First draft of the non-force users is done

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkQaSUGvzG

If there are any roles besides healer that you feel are missing from the non-force users let me know and I will add either a class or archetype as needed

Llama513
2017-12-24, 08:13 PM
As I work on developing the new system for the Force I will be working in this document before transferring it over.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Hy--GMoazM

Llama513
2017-12-27, 01:29 PM
*bump* I feel pretty good about the basic idea for the new system, I'm just not quite sure on the power level behind certain aspects of the Use the Force skill, and have a slight worry about the new version of Lightsaber/Weapon Defense

Llama513
2018-01-02, 09:57 PM
Implemented the new Force System, and have begun to rework the armor and weapons.

Going to be adding in the non-weapon and armor equipment from the core book, and the other books after the weapons and armor from the books

Arkhios
2018-01-07, 06:47 PM
You need to add a page for the whole Use the Force skill description to fit in. Currently it overflows outside the page.

Regarding the Force Powers, you need to change the language to match the use of Force Points instead of spell slots, since they're not a thing with the Force. I know this takes a huge effort but in the end I think you'd be thankful for doing it. It makes easier to add new Force Powers later when you have a ready framework to work with.

Other than that, the thing you did with the Force Training is exactly how I would've done it. Kudos for that, I guess :)

(not to brag or anything: although it was my idea, you did the hard work and you deserve the credit for it).

Llama513
2018-01-07, 09:59 PM
You need to add a page for the whole Use the Force skill description to fit in. Currently it overflows outside the page.

Regarding the Force Powers, you need to change the language to match the use of Force Points instead of spell slots, since they're not a thing with the Force. I know this takes a huge effort but in the end I think you'd be thankful for doing it. It makes easier to add new Force Powers later when you have a ready framework to work with.

Other than that, the thing you did with the Force Training is exactly how I would've done it. Kudos for that, I guess :)

(not to brag or anything: although it was my idea, you did the hard work and you deserve the credit for it).

Glad you like it, I will fix the formatting, as for the slot wording, I'm not done with that yet, I'm adding the spell point explanation, changedto be force points, and the way that ends up working is you convert your points into slots, like you would with sorcery points, just with slight variation in regards to higher level slots, that will be added soon, after I finish getting Use Computer finished and the skills formatted

Fixed the formatting, finished putting in the skills, and added the section explaining how Force points work for casting powers

Giegue
2018-01-15, 09:25 PM
I apologize for necroing this thread, but I wanted to chime in with my own opinions now that I've gotten a chance to look at it. I must say you've done great work, though with the Sith inquisitor I have a few gripes, mainly that the Lightning archetype looks a bit weak. The thing about warlocks is their casting is deceptively limited; while short rest castimg looks plentiful in theory, in actuality it usually ends up being like 1 spell/encounter until very high levels. This means that warlocks tend to have to fall back on their at-will attack options in most combat rounds. In 5e, this is no issue because any archetype can pick up Eldritch Blast and Agonizing blast. However, for the Sith Inquisito EB being archetype limited makes it so the other two archetypes fall appart in combat, which is not fitting for a master of force lightning. Now, the dark healer could also suffer form this issue, but I can't tell because it does get some very unique powers. However, both dark healer and lightning seem to both suffer from being bad at combat, since they don't have their own EB equlivilents and thus are stuck spamming cantrips with the same power-level as a consular's cantrips, while the consular is also getting more casts/fight then them. Granted, they get invocations, but these don't really make up the difference because they are not as good as spells.

Now, there are four ways to solve this. Either A) You give both these archetypes their own EB equlivilent, B) you up the damage of their own at-will attack features (so the health leech for dark healer and shocking grasp for lightining), C) you make them better saber fighters, taking a page from the hexblade and giving them invocations that give them powers simmilar to the cha-to-saber attacks and damage, hexblade's curse and smite powers, so they actually don't suck as saber fighters (as right now the blade pact is actually worse than the blade pact was before hexblade, which is pretty bad) or D) you make their at-will attack powers have POWERFUL, at-will control or debuff riders, to compensate for the poor damage when compared to the EB the sorcerer gets. By powerful, I don't mean disadvantage on rolls or stuff like that. Thats just the frostbite cantrip. I'm talking something like lightning being able to use its bonus action to force an enemy who takes damage from shocking grasp to make a wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the start of the next round, at will. Like powerful, at-will control effects...not just simple debuffs

Basicly, if your not going to give the other archetypes access to EB, but still shaft them with the warlock casting chassis, they need an at-will attack option comparable to EB in power otherwise there is no reason to ever take them over sorcerer in a game with any frequency of combat. As it stands, the only way to play Inquisitor optimally is to take the sorcerer archetype, and that to me is a big shame.

Other than that, it looks pretty darn good. So I give you major props.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 10:16 AM
I apologize for necroing this thread, but I wanted to chime in with my own opinions now that I've gotten a chance to look at it. I must say you've done great work, though with the Sith inquisitor I have a few gripes, mainly that the Lightning archetype looks a bit weak. The thing about warlocks is their casting is deceptively limited; while short rest castimg looks plentiful in theory, in actuality it usually ends up being like 1 spell/encounter until very high levels. This means that warlocks tend to have to fall back on their at-will attack options in most combat rounds. In 5e, this is no issue because any archetype can pick up Eldritch Blast and Agonizing blast. However, for the Sith Inquisito EB being archetype limited makes it so the other two archetypes fall appart in combat, which is not fitting for a master of force lightning. Now, the dark healer could also suffer form this issue, but I can't tell because it does get some very unique powers. However, both dark healer and lightning seem to both suffer from being bad at combat, since they don't have their own EB equlivilents and thus are stuck spamming cantrips with the same power-level as a consular's cantrips, while the consular is also getting more casts/fight then them. Granted, they get invocations, but these don't really make up the difference because they are not as good as spells.

Now, there are four ways to solve this. Either A) You give both these archetypes their own EB equlivilent, B) you up the damage of their own at-will attack features (so the health leech for dark healer and shocking grasp for lightining), C) you make them better saber fighters, taking a page from the hexblade and giving them invocations that give them powers simmilar to the cha-to-saber attacks and damage, hexblade's curse and smite powers, so they actually don't suck as saber fighters (as right now the blade pact is actually worse than the blade pact was before hexblade, which is pretty bad) or D) you make their at-will attack powers have POWERFUL, at-will control or debuff riders, to compensate for the poor damage when compared to the EB the sorcerer gets. By powerful, I don't mean disadvantage on rolls or stuff like that. Thats just the frostbite cantrip. I'm talking something like lightning being able to use its bonus action to force an enemy who takes damage from shocking grasp to make a wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the start of the next round, at will. Like powerful, at-will control effects...not just simple debuffs

Basicly, if your not going to give the other archetypes access to EB, but still shaft them with the warlock casting chassis, they need an at-will attack option comparable to EB in power otherwise there is no reason to ever take them over sorcerer in a game with any frequency of combat. As it stands, the only way to play Inquisitor optimally is to take the sorcerer archetype, and that to me is a big shame.

Other than that, it looks pretty darn good. So I give you major props.

Thank you for pointing that out, I will give access to the Dark Blast to all of the Archetypes, and agonizing blast, as for the blade pact it should be the exact same as what the blade pact was before hexblade, since I'm pretty sure I copied it straight over. I will take a look at it to make sure that I didn't do something weird.

Don't worry about Necroing, I hadn't posted anything on here in a while because nobody had responded to any of the changes that I had made, so I had assumed that I was good to continue forward without worry. So I'm glad to have feedback on what I have done thus far.

Giegue
2018-01-16, 11:25 AM
Looking at the inquisitor more I noticed another big flaw: it has two "bad" saves and no good one. In 5e EVERY class has one "bad" save (Str, Int, Cha) and one "good" save (Dex, Con, Wis). The inquisitor as of now has no good saves, which is BAD design-wise. I understand not wanting to give them Wis/Cha for fluff, but Int/Cha is just BAD, so I suggest giving them either Dex/Cha or Con/Cha, if you want to keep with their RP of easily succumbing to vice.

Likewise, Agonizing Blast is not needed with Dark Blast if your already adding Cha to each blast, so no need for agonizing last. Also, speaking of dark Blast, there is a glitch with its write-up. You mention multiple blasts, but nowhere in its rules text do you mention how many extra blasts it gets and when it gets them. I know it's meant to act as EB, but not everybody will, so adding how it scales into its rules text is CRITICAL.

Finally, I feel if every archetype gets dark blast, that it should deal different damage types for each archetypes to keep it fitting that archetype's fluff; necrotic for healer, force for sorcerer and lightning for lightning.

Oh, and while this suggestion is not needed by any means, since Sith sorcerers are meant to be the best Necros I feel they should get some undead love since right now a Consular can necro better than them (due to getting higher level slots for your create undead expe) which does not seem right.

My idea to remedy this is to make two Sith sorcerery rituals you can grab with the book of ancient secrets, based on the wizard's undead thralls feature and Oathbreaker paladin's command undead channel Divinity, which I have rough suggestions below:

Command Undead -As an action, you can use your Sith Magic to bring an undead Creature you can see within 30ft under your control. It must make a Charisma saving throw against your Sith Inquisitor power save DC. On a failed save, it must obey your commands for the next 24 hours, or until you use this ritual again. Undead who's CR are equal to or greater than your Sith Inquisitor level are immune to this Ritual. You must have your Book of Shadows on hand to use this ritual. Once you use this ritual, you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Raise Greater Undead - If you have your book of shadows on hand, you can raise more and stronger undead through Sith Magic. When you use a power that creates undead, you can increase that power's casting time to 10 minutes to have the undead it creates gain the following benefits:

They increase their hit point maximums by your Sith Inquisitor level.
They add your proficiency bonus to their weapon damage rolls.
Additionally, when you cast a mystic arcanum that creates undead in this way, you can expend a use of a mystic arcanum with a higher level to cast that mystic arcanum at that level instead of its normal level. (You do not also cast the mystic arcanum you expended)

Llama513
2018-01-16, 11:35 AM
Looking at the inquisitor more I noticed another big flaw: it has two "bad" saves and no good one. In 5e EVERY class has one "bad" save (Str, Int, Cha) and one "good" save (Dex, Con, Wis). The inquisitor as of now has no good saves, which is BAD design-wise. I understand not wanting to give them Wis/Cha for fluff, but Int/Cha is just BAD, so I suggest giving them either Dex/Cha or Con/Cha, if you want to keep with their RP of easily succumbing to vice.

Likewise, Agonizing Blast is not needed with Dark Blast if your already adding Cha to each blast, so no need for agonizing last. Also, speaking of dark Blast, there is a glitch with its write-up. You mention multiple blasts, but nowhere in its rules text do you mention how many extra blasts it gets and when it gets them. I know it's meant to act as EB, but not everybody will, so adding how it scales into its rules text is CRITICAL.

Finally, I feel if every archetype gets dark blast, that it should deal different damage types for each archetypes to keep it fitting that archetype's fluff; necrotic for healer, force or necrotic (your choice) for sorcerer and lightning for lightning.

Oh, and while this suggestion is not needed by any means, since Sith sorcerers are meant to be the best Necros I feel they should get some undead love since right now a Consular can necro better than them (due to getting higher level slots for your create undead expe) which does not seem right.

My idea to remedy this is to make two Sith sorcerery rituals you can grab with the book of ancient secrets, based on the wizard's undead thralls feature and Oathbreaker paladin's command undead channel Divinity, which I have rough suggestions below:

Command Undead -As an action, you can use your Sith Magic to bring an undead Creature you can see within 30ft under your control. It must make a Charisma saving throw against your Sith Inquisitor power save DC. On a failed save, it must obey your commands for the next 24 hours, or until you use this ritual again. Undead who's CR are equal to or greater than your Sith Inquisitor level are immune to this Ritual. You must have your Book of Shadows on hand to use this ritual. Once you use this ritual, you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Raise Greater Undead - If you have your book of shadows on hand, you can raise more and stronger undead through Sith Magic. When you use a power that creates undead, you can increase that power's casting time to 10 minutes to have the undead it creates gain the following benefits:

They increase their hit point maximums by your Sith Inquisitor level.
They add your proficiency bonus to their weapon damage rolls.
Additionally, when you cast a mystic arcanum that creates undead in this way, you can expend a use of a mystic arcanum with a higher level to cast that mystic arcanum at that level instead of its normal level. (You do not also cast the mystic arcanum you expended)

I really like that, I was going to change dark blast to function just as eldritch blast without agonizing blast, and make it available to all, but if you feel that it should stay as a unique for Sith Inquisitor I can do that.

I will definitely add the necro rituals you recommend.

Giegue
2018-01-16, 11:39 AM
Yeah, it should remain Inquisitor only because if you hand it to consulars they suddenly become straight up better than inquisitors again. The Cha is not the reason EB is so strong, it's the fact that it's a cantrip that rivals a fighter's attack damage that makes it so strong. So even without agonizing blast, giving access to it to consulars would overpower them and underpower inquisitors as a result.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 11:44 AM
Yeah, it should remain Inquisitor only because if you have d it to consulars they suddenly become straight up better than inquisitors again. The Cha is not the reason EB is so strong, it's the fact that it's a cantrip that rivals a fighter's attack damage that makes it so strong, even without agonizing blast, giving access to it to consulars would overpower them and underpower inquisitors as a result.

Gotcha, I'll keep it as a Inquisitor specific thing then, I think what I am going to do is develop unique versions of it for each of the archetypes, what I think I will do for Dark Healer, is give them a version of it that has a d8 as its damage die, but will be the damage base for dark healing, I'll have to tweak the way that dark healing works specifically because of that change.

For Lightning Master, I will give them the d10 base damage, but then give them the ability to either spend a force point for the stun, or something like that, and make it so there shocking grasp is what deals that level of damage.

Giegue
2018-01-16, 11:48 AM
D8 still seems to low for dark healer..that shafts them and makes it so they will be not be good compared to the others. It's gotta be a d10 or nothing, unless you make the healing effect at-will such as making it temp hp that dosen't stack and lasts 1 minute when you spend no points on it, and healing when you do. Otherwise they will be strictly worse than consulars (due to having the same dpr as them and no added effect strong rider) and the other two archetypes.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 11:49 AM
D8 still seems to low for dark healer..that shafts them and makes it so they will be not be good. It's gotta be a d10 or nothing, unless you make the healing at-will such as making it temp hp that dosen't stack and lasts 1 minute when you spend no points on it, and healing when you do.

I like that option, I think I will go with that, since the reason I did the actual heal with a force point was so you couldn't pop people up for free, which the temp hp won't do, so I like that fix

Giegue
2018-01-16, 11:52 AM
Yeah, it should still do the actual healing when you pop a point. It just should have an at-will/no point rider that's strong (like the temp hp) enough to not make them a worse Consular, which the temp hp is. Glad I could be of help!

Llama513
2018-01-16, 11:54 AM
Yeah, it should still do the actual healing when you pop a point. It just should have an at-will/no point rider that's strong (like the temp hp) enough to not make them a worse Consular, which the temp hp is. Glad I could be of help!

Thanks for the help, I'll be making those changes later today, when I am back on my main computer

Giegue
2018-01-16, 11:58 AM
One more thing, for the dark healer's temp hp to stay competitive the dice have to scale without spending points, as 1d8 temp hp is not enough at high levels to make their at-will action "good" enough to keep them on par with sorcerer and lightning.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 12:01 PM
One more thing, for thecdark healer's temp go to stay competitive the dice have to scale without spending points, as 1d8 temp hp is not enough at high levels to make theirvat-will action "good" enough to keep them on par with sorcerer and lightning.

That's the plan, as a result I'll have to figure how whether or not to have the damage increase, and whether or not to increase the cost of healing as the base damage rises

Giegue
2018-01-16, 02:44 PM
One other thingI forgot to mention, the raise greater undead ritual has a wording glitch. In the part about expending higher level mystic arcanum for undead creation mystic arcanum there should be a clause added that you can also expend higher level mystic arcanum to re-assert control of the undead it creates, otherwise your still worse than a Consular as the feature is broken...as in does not work as intended, not OP. Just thought I'd let you know for when you finally make these edits.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 06:32 PM
One other thingI forgot to mention, the raise greater undead ritual has a wording glitch. In the part about expending higher level mystic arcanum for undead creation mystic arcanum there should be a clause added that you can also expend higher level mystic arcanum to re-assert control of the undead it creates, otherwise your still worse than a Consular as the feature is broken...as in does not work as intended, not OP. Just thought I'd let you know for when you finally make these edits.

Made the edits, I think I got them working as intended, decided to make the suggestions you gave for the command undead and raise greater undead into Invocations

Giegue
2018-01-16, 06:41 PM
Looks good, except the base damage on lightning is still too weak. To make it on par with sorcerer you either need to make the stun an at-will bonus action, or add a clause that for each d10 you roll with shocking grasp, you add your Cha mod to the damage of that roll. Otherwise this is strictly worse than sorc and consular since you need to spend points to match a sorcerer's dark blast or a be better than consular's force blast (which right now your dead even with, and thats not good since the consular is getting more spells/encounter than you, so your at-will attack NEEDS to be superior to anything they can do at-will to compensate.). I personally vote for Cha mod to each 1d10 you roll for shocking grasp, as at at-will xd10 and stun may be too strong. Other than that, looks awesome!\

EDIT: Forgot to mention, once again the scaling for dark blast has been omitted from its rules text. This should again be fixed, to clean up confusion.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 06:45 PM
Looks good, except the base damage on lightning is still too weak. To make it on par with sorcerer you either need to make the stun an at-will bonus action, or add a clause that for each d10 you roll with shocking grasp, you add your Cha mod to the damage of that roll. Otherwise this is strictly worse than sorc and consular since you need to spend points to match a sorcerer's dark blast or a consular's force blast. I personally vote to Cha mod to each 1d10 you roll for shocking grasp, as at at-will xd10 and stun may be too strong. Other than that, looks awesome!

Yeah I think that works better, since the at will stun is much too strong, I believe I have it worked out

Giegue
2018-01-16, 06:46 PM
Yeah, agreed. Also, I fixed my OP above because once again the scailing for dark blast has been omitted from its rules text. This should be fixed up to avoid confusion. Other than that, this looks epic and I really want to play a Sith Inquisitor now!

Llama513
2018-01-16, 06:48 PM
Yeah, agreed. Also, I fixed my OP above because once again the scailing for dark blast has been omitted from its rules text. This should be fixed up to avoid confusion. Other than that, this looks epic and I really want to play a Sith Inquisitor now!

The dark blast damage increase is there, look under the description of the power, it specifically says that you launch another blast at 5th, 11th, and 17th, just as the way that eldritch blast is described.

The power creates more than one beam when you reach higher levels: two beams at 5th level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level. You can direct the beams at the same target or at different ones. Make a separate attack roll for each beam.

Noticed in your post about Dark Healing specifyiing that the temp hp doesn't stack, did you mean to say you can't affect someone who still has temp hp, because in the base rules temp hp doesn't stack

Giegue
2018-01-16, 06:54 PM
Nah, I forgot that temp HP doesn't stack. Also for dark blast, it dosen't show any of the scaling for me. That may be a formatting issue instead of an omission on your part though, as sometimes homebrewery docs will randomly shove text so far off to the side of the page I can't see it. If this is the case, I suggest working a bit on how you format the Dark Blast rules text as if Iif it doesn't display right for me, I'm sure it dosen't display right for other people too. Also, when I have the time I'll check all the docs and the rest of this one for simmilar formatting issues, just so you can fix them all if/when you have the time. (I seem to recall entire force powers in the general doc being shoved too far off the page for me to read as well, among others.)

Also, one more thing, the wording on raise greater undead regarding the mystic arcanum is wonky and really dose not indicate that you can also expend higher level mystic arcanum to reassert control over undead as well as create them. (which was the RAI of the feature.) It should be worded instead like this...

Additionally, when you cast a mystic arcaum that creates undead this way, you can cast that mystic arcanum by expending a use of a higher level mystic arcanum you know to cast it at the level of the expended mystic arcanum (you do not also cast the expended mystic arcanum power when you do this.) To re-assert undead created with mystic arcanum powers this way, you must expend the use of a mystic arcanum of the level you cast the power you created them at. (again, you do not also cast the expended mystic arcanum power when you do this.)

Llama513
2018-01-16, 06:57 PM
Nah, I forgot that temp HP doesn't stack. Also for dark blast, it dosen't show any of the scaling for me. That may be a formatting issue instead of an omission on your part though, as sometimes homebrewery docs will randomly shove text so far off to the side of the page I can't see it. If this is the case, I suggest working a bit on how you format of the Dark Blast rules text as if Iif it dosen't display right for me, I'm sure it dosen't display right for other people too.

Also, one more thing, the wording on raise greater undead regarding the mystic arcanum is wonky and really dose not indicate that you can also expend higher level mystic arcanum to reassert control over undead as well as create them. (which was the RAI of the feature.) It should be worded instead like this...

Additionally, when you cast a mystic arcaum that creates undead this way, you can cast that mystic arcanum by expending a use of a higher level mystic arcanum you know to cast it at the level of the expended mystic arcanum (you do not also cast the expended mystic arcanum power when you do this.) To re-assert undead created with mystic arcanum powers this way, you must expend the use of a mystic arcanum of the level you cast the power you created them at. (again, you do not also cast the expended mystic arcanum power when you do this.)


Are you using Google Chrome to view the homebrewery, because if not you should use that

Giegue
2018-01-16, 06:57 PM
Yeah, I am using firefox. Thanks for the heads up. Also, did you see my wording suggestion for the mystic arcanum part of raise greater undead?

Llama513
2018-01-16, 06:59 PM
Yeah, I am using firefox. Thanks for the heads up. Also, did you see my wording suggestion for the mystic arcanum part of raise greater undead?

Yeah I did use your wording suggestion, google chrome is where it works best

Giegue
2018-01-16, 07:02 PM
Alright, cool. I will remember that. Other that that, this looks awesome. Now I've just gotta check out the non-force users. BTW, if your making the command undead and raise greater undead into invocations instead of incantations, have you considered perhaps divorcing them from the book of ancient serects and letting Sith Inquisitors of any pact take them? I mean, thats not a mandatory change, but between the invocations and such, I think the book of ancient secrects may have enough exclusive things so opening up undead mastery to Iniqusitors who use any form of Sith magic I think may be a good idea, and is especially fitting for those that choose to take on familiars. (the more pets, the merrier, basicly.)

Llama513
2018-01-16, 07:03 PM
Alright, cool. I will remember that. Other that that, this looks awesome. Now I've just gotta check out the non-force users. BTW, if your making the command undead and raise greater undead into invocations instead of incantations, have you considered perhaps divorcing them from the book of ancient serects and letting Sith Inquisitors of any pact take them? I mean, thats not a mandatory change, but between the invocations and such, I think the book of ancient secrects may have enough exclusive things so opening up undead mastery to Iniqusitors who use any form of Sith magic I think may be a good idea, and is especially fitting for those that choose to take on familiars. (the more pets, the merrier, basicly.)

That is fair, I'll just set them as requiring level 5 first

Just keep in mind that for right now while looking through the material, there are somethings that are going to be changed in the equipment of the classes once I finish entering equipment, mostly the starting equipment, and specialized equipment proficiency

Giegue
2018-01-16, 07:12 PM
Thats understandable. I assume your going to make actual lightsabers more "special" and start off the jedi and sith classes with training sabers? Either way, equipment is a minor change, really, but I'll watch it either way. Also, as a quick note the references to the book of shadows should be removed from Command Undead and Raise Greater Undead, BTW.

Also the dark healer seems like it will be very fun, now...or at least pretty solid at keeping people up in a fight. Granted at 5th level 2d8 temp HP isn't a ton, but being able to do it at-will seems particularly strong essentially halving most attacks at that level, and the same as it scales. So all and all I likely would try Dark Healer if I where to ever play in a dark side game using your rules, its a really odd, but unique take on turning the warlock chassis into a support character.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 07:15 PM
Thats understandable. I assume your going to make actual lightsabers more "special" and start off the jedi and sith classes with training sabers? Either way, equipment is a minor change, really, but I'll watch it either way. Also, as a quick note the references to the book of shadows should be removed from Command Undead and Raise Greater Undead, BTW.

Right, I will fix those, sabers special thing is that they ignore the resistance to damage that objects have, and the use by guardians, warriors, and the Jensaarai for defense, as for the training saber, I don't plan to implement those, as my assumption is that a level 1 jedi or sith is a padawan and would thus have an actual saber

Giegue
2018-01-16, 07:20 PM
Makes sense. That sounds fine by me...as even Ani got his saber pretty early on in his training, if I recall. Likewise, the Sith as far as I know never even used training sabers to begin with, at least post-bane. In the Plagueis novel, good old Hego took all gloves off and started Sheeve right off with actual, dangerous weapons...never even bothering with a training blade. I assume thats how Sith training would typically go even pre-bane, since it tends to be more brutal. I mean, in the old republic MMO you don't stat off with a saber, but do get a vibroblade...which unlike a training saber I believe is an actually dangerous/lethal weapon....which makes some sense, even for the Jedi who also start off with a vibroblade (as it was an era of war where Jedi dawnd armor and fought in armies, so I can imagine their training being a bit more rigorous/harsh as compared to the lazy, stagnate, peace time Jedi we saw in the prequels.)

Llama513
2018-01-16, 07:22 PM
Makes sense. That sounds fine by me...as even Ani got his saber pretty early on in his training, if I recall. Likewise, the Sith as far as I know never even used training sabers to begin with, at least post-bane. In the Plagueis novel, good old Hego took all gloves off and started Sheeve right off with actual, dangerous weapons...never even bothering with a training blade. I assume thats how Sith training would typically go even pre-bane, since it tends to be more brutal. I mean, in the old republic MMO you don't stat off with a saber, but do get a vibroblade...which unlike a training saber I believe is an actually dangerous/lethal weapon....which makes some sense, even for the Jedi who also start off with a vibroblade (as it was an era of war where Jedi dawnd armor and fought in armies, so I can imagine their training being a bit more rigorous/harsh/brutal as compared to the lazy, stagnate, peace time Jedi we saw in the prequels.)

Exactly, that and 5e specifies that even 1st level characters have had a decent amount of training previous to begining their adventure.

Giegue
2018-01-16, 07:32 PM
Yeah, overall this is all awesome, and I may just have to run a game using this for my co-workers. Also, do you plan on ever making a proper bestiary for this? If not, I can stat up some quick stormtroopers, rebel soldiers etc... for you when I'm less busy if you wish. Oh, and just a friendly reminder that the book of shadows references still have not been purged from command undead and raise greater undead, though no rush on that by any means.

Llama513
2018-01-16, 07:50 PM
Yeah, overall this is all awesome, and I may just have to run a game using this for my co-workers. Also, do you plan on ever making a proper bestiary for this? If not, I can stat up some quick stormtroopers, rebel soldiers etc... for you when I'm less busy if you wish. Oh, and just a friendly reminder that the book of shadows references still have not been purged from command undead and raise greater undead, though no rush on that by any means.

The bestiary will be made after I get the equipment entered, this will take some time as there is a lot of equipment to add, and I can only really work on entering material on the weekend since classes have started back up

Giegue
2018-01-22, 06:09 PM
Alright. Cool. Also, after thinking about how I handled the necro-invocations I may have found a better way to deal with them. I made these for the normal warlock, however I think they could also work for the Sith Inquisitor who wants to focus on Necromancy/undead. I have no idea how balanced they are, though, so word on it would be most appreciated! The new necro-invocations (and new pact boon) can be found here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?549019-Warlock-Necromancy-(New-Pact-Boon-and-Invocations-for-undead-mastery)&p=22776551#post22776551) If they are too strong/unbalanced, I'd love your help brining them more in line for use with both the Sith Inquisitor and normal Warlock, if you would not mind doing so if/when you have the time. (No rush on this by any means, though)

Also, as a quick asside, since I think Dark Healer being the worst archetype for undead-commanding (since undead require a bonus action to command) is not really fluff-fitting (as they and sorcerers seem like the most likely to mess with undead), if you feel this is an issue as well maybe make it so they can apply the temp HP to themselves without spending a bonus action? (Or do they count within "touch" range and therefore can do it as a free action either way?)

Llama513
2018-01-23, 09:36 AM
Alright. Cool. Also, after thinking about how I handled the necro-invocations I may have found a better way to deal with them. I made these for the normal warlock, however I think they could also work for the Sith Inquisitor who wants to focus on Necromancy/undead. I have no idea how balanced they are, though, so word on it would be most appreciated! The new necro-invocations (and new pact boon) can be found here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?549019-Warlock-Necromancy-(New-Pact-Boon-and-Invocations-for-undead-mastery)&p=22776551#post22776551) If they are too strong/unbalanced, I'd love your help brining them more in line for use with both the Sith Inquisitor and normal Warlock, if you would not mind doing so if/when you have the time. (No rush on this by any means, though)

Also, as a quick asside, since I think Dark Healer being the worst archetype for undead-commanding (since undead require a bonus action to command) is not really fluff-fitting (as they and sorcerers seem like the most likely to mess with undead), if you feel this is an issue as well maybe make it so they can apply the temp HP to themselves without spending a bonus action? (Or do they count within "touch" range and therefore can do it as a free action either way?)

I will take a look at the material, as for the dark healer, I agree and will make it so they can affect themselves as a free action

Llama513
2018-01-24, 02:58 PM
Contemplating adding a new saber as well as adding some new rules for the saber staff.

The new saber would be the Saber Quarterstaff, the way it works is that it deals 2d8 damage has the double, finesse and light property, but it has special requirements for its use, in order to gain your proficiency bonus to your attack rolls with the weapon, you have to be proficient with it and have the Niman and Trakata saber styles. If you are proficient with the weapon but don't have the styles you don't add your prof mod to your attack rolls, if you are not proficient you also have disadvantage on attack rolls with the weapon.

The other change would be rules for using the Saberstaff and Saber Quarterstaff with only one blade extended. The saberstaff can be used as a long-handled saber with only one blade extended, and the saber quarterstaff functions as a basic lightsaber with only one blade extended.

Giegue
2018-01-24, 06:25 PM
So the saberstaff is basically Darth Maul's weapon, while the saber quarterstaff is Darth Plagueis/Jar Jar Binks' weapon? Makes sense...

Also, speaking of Darth Jar Jar the wise, part of me really wants a Gungan race just for the Sith Gungan/Darth Jar Jar memes. The original SAGA had them as a + dex, - int race. Personally, for this update I feel they should be a +Dex/+Cha race, both for the sake of the Darth Jar Jar meme, but also because in Fantasy Flights Star Wars the Gungan's best stat is Presence (aka charisma). (their worst is still Int, and they have solid dex and willpower as well)

Llama513
2018-01-24, 08:21 PM
So the saberstaff is basically Darth Maul's weapon, while the saber quarterstaff is Darth Plagueis/Jar Jar Binks' weapon? Makes sense...

Also, speaking of Darth Jar Jar the wise, part of me really wants a Gungan race just for the Sith Gungan/Darth Jar Jar memes. The original SAGA had them as a + dex, - int race. Personally, for this update I feel they should be a +Dex/+Cha race, both for the sake of the Darth Jar Jar meme, but also because in Fantasy Flights Star Wars the Gungan's best stat is Presence (aka charisma). (their worst is still Int, and they have solid dex and willpower as well)

I purposefully left out the Gungans, for the sole purpose of avoiding darth jar jar as I personally can't stand the idea, if others wish to make them on their own they may, I however will not be adding them as a playable race

As for the saber quarterstaff ypu want to look to exar kun, plaguesis simply had a larger hilt to match his larger size, beyond that his saber was no different from a standard saber

I am also contemplating calling it good for equipment since the remaining equipment is simply varaitions of what is already in, I will be adding in explosives, and armor that works as starting equipment, and the finishing up the implants, but beyond that I don't see the need to add more equipment at the moment

Llama513
2018-01-26, 08:46 PM
I have finished adding in equipment, besides explosives, and have fixed the starting equipment of the classes, as such I feel confident in calling the material for players as complete, beyond changes that will occur do to play testing, and things that slipped my notice while designing.

Giegue
2018-01-27, 04:57 PM
BTW, are you going to implement my Warlock Necromancy stuff into the Sith Inquisitor, or keep them with the current invocations for it? If you choose to do the latter, the refrences to the book of shadows still need to be removed from those invocations. If you choose to go with the new necro-lock invocations I made, please let me know when you make the changes! No credit is needed, since my homebrew is 100% free to all and I demand nothing in return for its use beyond that people have fun with it. (though if you feel the need to credit me anyway I am not against it)

Llama513
2018-01-28, 02:08 AM
BTW, are you going to implement my Warlock Necromancy stuff into the Sith Inquisitor, or keep them with the current invocations for it? If you choose to do the latter, the refrences to the book of shadows still need to be removed from those invocations. If you choose to go with the new necro-lock invocations I made, please let me know when you make the changes! No credit is needed, since my homebrew is 100% free to all and I demand nothing in return for its use beyond that people have fun with it. (though if you feel the need to credit me anyway I am not against it)

I'm going to be addint the necro stuff, I just forgot to add them in when I was finishing up the equipment

Added in the Necromancy pact stuff, made some sligh tweaks to fit the system I am using better, and the fact that the Sith Inquisitor can cast animate dead

Llama513
2018-01-30, 01:50 PM
I will be adding in more material as I have time, but for the moment I have entered everything that is needed to test it using stuff from dnd, jist up the health of monsters, and posdibly give them better weapons, but beyond that it should be ready to go

Llama513
2018-02-04, 08:16 PM
Did some play-testing and added in some tweaks to the classes:

- Gave the Saber focused classes Medium armor and shields, as well as the option to start with medium armor
- This lead to Jensaarai getting Heavy armor proficiency and a set of full plate
- Gave the stealth force users the option to start with light armor if they want
- Added specification of availability restrictions for starting equipment
- Added that the force users all get Use the Force
- Moved the deflection of weapon attacks to being intrinsic to sabers, thus making saber defense into a feature that points to the superiority of the saber focused force users in defending themselves with a saber.