Roysurrection or Roytting?- Will Roy return or stay dead?

[Charles Phipps]

I'm reminded of Peter David's Supergirl Trade Paperback "Many Happy Returns" (I believe it was) where the original Supergirl came back to meet the current one (at that time). In the introduction, Peter David said he routinely got letters form people saying they liked his work but when he was going to get over the Earth Angel stuff and get back to the actual comic.

Well, Peter David was perplexed because he never intended to. The whole Earth Angel thing was intended to be a permanent change in the status quo of the character (that didn't take).

My assumption from Miko's death and the way that the Giant handles character moments (plus Black Belt's death over in 8bit) was that Roy Greenhilt died permanently at the hands of Xykon. In the same manner as Lord Shojo, the Giant would create sufficient excuses as to why he wouldn't be returned to life but it would genuinely continue the tradition of Dead means Dead. Let's face it, Roy was prophecized to die. If you ask me, that means that he's going to endure the 'not Buffy first and fifth season finale' sort of death.

A lot of the arguments I've heard don't ring true because for me they're overly Roycentric. I clearly am not a person who believes as strongly in the character as others. I love Roy Greenhilt's sarcasm even if I've always felt he continually underestimated Elan, was a poor diplomat, and seemed to be unable to do much to motivate the Order of the Stick from anything they didn't want to already do. Well, then I discover that a lot of people feel very different. On these boards, it's not an ensemble piece but a supporting cast. I see Roy's death very much like one of the Dragonlance novels heroes dying while other people see it more like He-man dying and some people arguing Teela could take over. It's a fundamental difference in what the character's place is about.

Sadly, I think this has started to get some ugly namecalling going. Hinjo and Elan have born some of this along with Haley. Effectively, the three characters that seem most likely to step up and fulfill Roy's Role as Team Leader. I confess that I don't think anyone could quite fill Roy's niche. I don't want Roy warmed over. No one else should be the "Charlie Brown" of the group in that he's the long suffering Everyman of the Order of the stick. I do think that the character should be allowed to mature to the point they don't need a caretaker though.

That they'd go after Xykon on their own because it's the right thing to do.

[Azukar]

Let's wait and see; Roy's suit of Plot Armour has seen him through many a tough time in the past, and the Resurrection Function might yet kick in.

[Krytha]

He'll be back and more ass-kicky than ever.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The way I see it, Roy is a main character. Not, as some people have apparently argued, the main character, but as a member of the eponymous Order, and a named character around since Panel One, the odds of him being Killed Off For Real are slim to none. Besides, there's a wealth of humor about D&D's Resurrection spells that hasn't been explored yet.

[kpenguin]

Well, according to the Giant, OotS is very much Roy's story. Not Elan's story or Redcloak's story, but Roy. Even if he stays dead, which I very much doubt he will, Roy will remain a powerful influence over the rest of the story. He might even pull an Obi-Wan Kenobi and guide Elan. I believe someone compared Elan to Luke afterall.

[Demented]

Considering that Roy was with O-Chul, and not Miko, does the concept not answer itself?

Roy is going to be with us for a long, stinky, rotting time.

[Charles Phipps]

Okay.

That's the prevailing sentiment I've gotten, certainly.

But what happens if he's not?

[VanBuren]

Okay.

That's the prevailing sentiment I've gotten, certainly.

But what happens if he's not?

And if it's not, then clearly it's not Roy's story. The Giant has said that it is in fact, Roy's story.

[Nerd-o-rama]

If Roy is not resurrected, I'd imagine he'll hang around as a ghost or vengeance spirit of some sort, tied to his Blood Oath of Vengeance in the same way his father is. He'd pretty much have to involve Julia in the main plot to destroy Xykon, and would probably hang around to guide the OotS when they needed plot prodding as well.

Hey, my dead PC did it when I took over DMing in my group.

[factotum]

Except Roy never took a Blood Oath of Vengeance, as far as we know. While he can complete his father's Oath, that doesn't necessarily mean he is also afflicted by it in the same way.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, Eugene at least was under the impression that the Oath is passed down in full to the next generation of the family if the oath-maker dies without fulfilling it. He as much as spells it out in On the Origin.

[Dark Madrigal]

I call for a Roycott!

Roy shall never again rise.

Everything shall hinge on Hinjo.

(actually I like Roy and think he will come back but I can't resist wordplay when it's right there in front of me)

[Charles Phipps]

And if it's not, then clearly it's not Roy's story. The Giant has said that it is in fact, Roy's story.

You're basing a lot of faith on one line from a guy who said Miko would be with us til the end.

It's obviously not ROY'S STORY when Elan gets Dashing Swordsman and it's not ROY'S story right now.

[kpenguin]

You're basing a lot of faith on one line from a guy who said Miko would be with us til the end.

It's obviously not ROY'S STORY when Elan gets Dashing Swordsman and it's not ROY'S story right now.

How do you know that Miko won't be back?:smallwink:

Anyway, the entire strip is Roy's story, but individual side-plots might involve other characters. Just because there are parts which focus on an individual character doesn't mean that that there is no main character.

For instance, you could easily say that Luke Skywalker is the main character of the original Star Wars trilogy. However, there were parts where the focus was not on Luke but rather on developing the other characters. The most obvious is the relationship between Han and Leia. However, it is difficult to not see that Luke is still the main character.

Now, for OotS, it's not as clear. Different characters are spotlighted more often than they would be in a normal story. However, to me, it is clear that Roy is the central character. He is the one who connects everything together and the story really does hinge on him.

[Mordokai]

You're basing a lot of faith on one line from a guy who said Miko would be with us til the end.

It's obviously not ROY'S STORY when Elan gets Dashing Swordsman and it's not ROY'S story right now.

Like it was mentioned, who said Miko won't come back? I think she would eagerly grab the chance to come back, if not to atone herself, than to give the order a little more hard time. I'm not Rich, I don't know what, or how he attends to bring her back, but I think she will be back. Same goes for Roy, he will be back, sooner or later. I hope sooner, because he has been away for too long now.

And seriously Charles, I think we get the point, you can stop with this topics now. How many more of "Will Roy stay dead?" style threads do you intend to open? We get it, you want Roy to stay dead, now move on.

[The_Hunting_Enemy]

This question rears its ugly head again.

My call is, wait and see.

PS: Where was it that he said Miko was there to stay? Somebody? i want to see the words together so I can see if it was meant to be interpreted differently.

[Psychonaut]

Where was it that he said Miko was there to stay?

I don't have a copy so I can't be sure, but I've heard it attributed to the No Cure for the Paladin Blues introduction.

Edit: Would be nice to have an exact quote, though, if anyone's willing to provide it. As you mentioned, I can think of a lot of rather ambiguous ways of saying it that could be interpreted to mean that.

[Zafuel]

I don't have a copy so I can't be sure, but I've heard it attributed to the No Cure for the Paladin Blues introduction.

Edit: Would be nice to have an exact quote, though, if anyone's willing to provide it. As you mentioned, I can think of a lot of rather ambiguous ways of saying it that could be interpreted to mean that.


Right, here's the quote.

...I didn't like the idea that every villian has to return...I already had the Linear Guild and Xykon, and was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around on and off for the rest of the OOTS storyline.

[The Extinguisher]

He'll be coming back, but it won't be anytime soon.

Killing of your main character only to have him come back less than 50 comics latter, or even less than a hundred comics latter, is bad storytelling. It's pointless. Just as pointless as ressurecting Shojo when the clerics came. Actions need consequences, and sure death isn't permentant in D&D, but this is primarily a comic more than a game.

Also, bringing him back soon means no Afterlife, or ressurection side quest jokes.

[Wolfman42666]

Look remember how long Roy's sword was broken, how long Miko was alive, How long haley couldn't speak, how long Xykon needed to regrow a body, how long Mitd's been under that unbrella.

Its too early to speculate!
(While speculation is fun and addictive.)

If hes dead for the next Four hundred comics (will there be that many?:smalleek:) then I'd be fairly certain he wasn't coming back.

I mean It hasn't been 100 comics yet, this is the kind of thing I'd seriously consider while the giant is away not before.

And just to be hypocritical, I'm gonna say he "lives" (:smallbiggrin:) becuase it's his story, I mean he's in the frickin' Circle at the top (even for erfworld)

[John Campbell]

This is a D&D world. Raise dead and resurrection are pretty readily available. They don't even have to find an NPC for it; Durkon can certainly cast the former and very probably also the latter, if it should become necessary. Roy still has reasons to live - Celia, his quest, his perceived responsibility for the rest of the team - and I don't think he's ready to hang up the ancestral sword and retire to some celestial plane yet. Especially since that means having to listen to Eugene harass him about how useless fighters are for the rest of eternity.

So Roy will be back.

It may take a while - I suspect we've got plenty of hilarity left to ensue as Haley tries to get Roy's body to Durkon despite Belkar's assistance, and then they try to get the diamonds he'll need to cast the spell - but he'll be back.

[Kish]

Okay.

That's the prevailing sentiment I've gotten, certainly.

But what happens if he's not?
Then you are not surprised and nearly everyone else here is.

You're investing a lot in Roy being permanently gone. What will you say when--I mean if he does get resurrected?

[Elderac]

From a story perspective, a lot of panels have been used to get Roy's body back so he can be raised. If it was Giant's inent for Roy not to come back, there could have been many ways to prevent that, not the least of which would be Tsukiko finding Roy's body and animating it.

So, I don't think it is a matter of if Roy will be coming back, but when and with how much difficulty and humor. :smallwink:

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Then you are not surprised and nearly everyone else here is.

You're investing a lot in Roy being permanently gone. What will you say when--I mean if he does get resurrected?

I really wish he hadn't died. His death really doesn't mean anything because he is most likely to be resurrected. It was just to shock the readers. Anyway, I'm sure the next story arc will about resurrecting Roy.

[TheNifty]

Hinjo and Elan have born some of this along with Haley. Effectively, the three characters that seem most likely to step up and fulfill Roy's Role as Team Leader.

Really? I can see Hayley as a remote possibility, but Hinjo has responsibilities to the Asurite refugees that are going to stop him adventuring with the Order, and Elan, well, I've made my feelings on him clear in other threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53609&page=4), so I'll just say he lacks storytelling potential as leader, and none of the Order would follow him - even Hayley knows plans and tactics aren't really his forte.

That said, it's an academic question as there's been too much progress in the "steal Roy's body" side plot for him not to be brought back now. Checkov's Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun) and all that.

[SPoD]

Right, here's the quote.


...I didn't like the idea that every villian has to return...I already had the Linear Guild and Xykon, and was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around on and off for the rest of the OOTS storyline.

You know, he IS speaking about his state of mind at the point in time before he actually introduced Miko, right? Just because that was his intent before the character walked on-screen doesn't mean that he's compelled to stick with that. He can change his mind.

At any rate, yeah, Roy is coming back simply because Raise Dead is a huge part of the D&D experience, and Rich hasn't made any jokes about it yet. It would be inauthentic to make the premier D&D satire story and not touch on one of the most iconic and/or controversial facets of the game. If anything, I expect that the fact that raising a fallen hero is so anticlimactic to be precisely what Rich focuses on, because he likes to use the strip to criticize the game.

[Ted_Stryker]

Roy will be back. It might take up to another 6 months or so real time, if I had to guess when, but he'll be back.

[the_tick_rules]

he'll be back. maybe he was "destined" to die, but nobody said he had to stay that way.

[Oxymoron]

Roy will be back. Right now two of the most competent sneaker characters are carrying Roys body back to the boat. If Roy wasn`t coming back, MITD would have eaten him by now.

[NerfTW]

According to Start of Darkness, the blood oath does indeed get passed down. Roy is able to get into the afterlife, true, but until one of Eugene's descendents finish off Xykon, Eugene can't pass into the afterlife.

I look forward to Roy and Eugene bickering for a while.

[Spiky]

My assumption from Miko's death and the way that the Giant handles character moments (plus Black Belt's death over in 8bit) was that Roy Greenhilt died permanently at the hands of Xykon. In the same manner as Lord Shojo, the Giant would create sufficient excuses as to why he wouldn't be returned to life but it would genuinely continue the tradition of Dead means Dead.

I think I've figured it out. You've never actually read this comic, have you? There is an entire plot thread to make sure Roy gets resurrected. And this proves to you the Giant intends to not resurrect him?

In other news, the NFL started preseason games last week, but I'm sure that means they are going to cancel the season for this year. :smallsigh:


Charles,
I think we get it by now. You hate Roy (and therefore people like me), you want him dead. You can stop repeating yourself, boring. Personally, I feel every thread you start on this topic is a personal attack since the reason you hate Roy is he acts like me. I'd have a lot of fun in a court proving you are threatening my life.

[Deatheater]

I'm reminded of Peter David's Supergirl Trade Paperback "Many Happy Returns" (I believe it was) where the original Supergirl came back to meet the current one (at that time). In the introduction, Peter David said he routinely got letters form people saying they liked his work but when he was going to get over the Earth Angel stuff and get back to the actual comic.

Well, Peter David was perplexed because he never intended to. The whole Earth Angel thing was intended to be a permanent change in the status quo of the character (that didn't take).

My assumption from Miko's death and the way that the Giant handles character moments (plus Black Belt's death over in 8bit) was that Roy Greenhilt died permanently at the hands of Xykon. In the same manner as Lord Shojo, the Giant would create sufficient excuses as to why he wouldn't be returned to life but it would genuinely continue the tradition of Dead means Dead. Let's face it, Roy was prophecized to die. If you ask me, that means that he's going to endure the 'not Buffy first and fifth season finale' sort of death.

A lot of the arguments I've heard don't ring true because for me they're overly Roycentric. I clearly am not a person who believes as strongly in the character as others. I love Roy Greenhilt's sarcasm even if I've always felt he continually underestimated Elan, was a poor diplomat, and seemed to be unable to do much to motivate the Order of the Stick from anything they didn't want to already do. Well, then I discover that a lot of people feel very different. On these boards, it's not an ensemble piece but a supporting cast. I see Roy's death very much like one of the Dragonlance novels heroes dying while other people see it more like He-man dying and some people arguing Teela could take over. It's a fundamental difference in what the character's place is about.

Sadly, I think this has started to get some ugly namecalling going. Hinjo and Elan have born some of this along with Haley. Effectively, the three characters that seem most likely to step up and fulfill Roy's Role as Team Leader. I confess that I don't think anyone could quite fill Roy's niche. I don't want Roy warmed over. No one else should be the "Charlie Brown" of the group in that he's the long suffering Everyman of the Order of the stick. I do think that the character should be allowed to mature to the point they don't need a caretaker though.

That they'd go after Xykon on their own because it's the right thing to do.

Your theories might make narrative sense in most worlds, but the fact is OOST is a satire of AD&D gaming worlds, where everyone knows you CAN come back from the dead just fine--with no "Monkey Paw" moments. And just because your prophecied to die, doesn't keep you from being raised from the dead, especially when that IS really a posibility where you live.

Basically, unless the Giant really works to make it not so, Roy will be back. Will relationships change? Maybe. But it would defy the logic of living in a world where people get resurrected to NOT get Roy resurrected:

Guy at a tavern: What happened to Roy?
Haley: *sniff* he snuffed it.
GAT: What you lost the body? It was damaged beyond retrieval?
H: No, no, his story arc was over and the rest of us needed to grow as characters. Besides, treasure shouldn't be wasted on the dead.

See, to maintain their own reputations, OotS (excepting Belkar), will do everything in their power to bring Roy back. Oh, that and they're(excepting Belkar) his friends. :smallsmile:

Now I give you there is always a possibility it won't happen. But in a world where the dead come back to life with relative ease, Roy chances of sucking air soon are pretty damn good!:smallbiggrin:

[holywhippet]

This is a D&D world. Raise dead and resurrection are pretty readily available.


Funny thing that, I finished Neverwinter Nights 2 last night and it often bugs me how AD&D "worlds" completely ignore the raise/ressurect options. Characters die and everyone is all sad even though a simple (if pricey) spell could fix things up.

[Theodoriph]

Roy will be back. Yes, the giant has said this is Roy's story. But even without that, the success of the comic practically demands his return.

There are six main good characters:

Elan, Vaarsuvius, Roy, Durkon, Belkar and Haley.

Running through that list, if you ask people who they can associate most closely with, I'm guessing the answer for the majority would be Roy. Haley would probably command a large portion as well.

Elan is hard to associate ourselves with. I doubt anyone on this forum is quite as dumb, or random as he is.

Belkar as well. I doubt anyone on this forum is quite like him.

Durkon we don't really know all that much about. He's hard to associate with simply due to a lack of relevant information.

Unless anyone here has access to some kind of power, Vaarsuvius is a bit distant as well.

Haley and Roy are the two closest characters to the average person. And most people probably associate most closely with them. Roy gets the advantage in my books because he's the straight man, there's nothing hidden about him, nothing secretive, while Haley still has some mystery surrounding her. He's also the one who wants to slap Elan when he does something stupid, the one who gets frustrated at Belkar's attitude and behaviour. In short, he behaves much like most of us would in a similar situation.

Because of this, the comic doesn't function as well without him. In fact, any story where you cannot relate to any of the main characters is likely a story you will not enjoy. This does not make the comic a bad one without him. I'm sure we can all relate in part to the other characters.

But the strongest link for most is likely to Roy, and because of that, he needs to come back. The comic can retain its quality without him for a while, but I'm sure if we knew he wasn't returning, for many of us it would lose some of its charm. It's hard to read something with characters you can't fully or nearly fully relate to. It's not that the other character are bad. It's just that much of the enjoyment we derive from Elan and Belkar and the rest revolved around Roy. And so he needs to come back.

[Charles Phipps]

I think we get it by now. You hate Roy (and therefore people like me), you want him dead. You can stop repeating yourself, boring. Personally, I feel every thread you start on this topic is a personal attack since the reason you hate Roy is he acts like me. I'd have a lot of fun in a court proving you are threatening my life.

Wow man, overidentifying much?

Edit- Actually, I only keep bringing it up because no one seems to even entertain the wildest possibility he's permanently dead. I'm just curious how the comic would change if that were the case.

Roy can come back tomorrow and I'd drop my icon along with apologize for misinterpreting things. I still think it'd be interesting to see how things would change if he were gone for good.

[NerfTW]

Nobody entertains the wildest possibility that the Earth is really a giant spitball hurtling towards some gigantic kid's head, but we don't make multiple threads on that either. You might as well make threads titled "What if the entire Order dies and the Linear Guild become the main characters?"


All signs point to Roy being back at some point. Unless the body gets vaporized before he's rezzed, there is no logical reason why they wouldn't rez him. However, they do need to get the diamond dust, which means there will likely be a subquest first.

[John Campbell]

Wow man, overidentifying much?

Edit- Actually, I only keep bringing it up because no one seems to even entertain the wildest possibility he's permanently dead. I'm just curious how the comic would change if that were the case.

Roy can come back tomorrow and I'd drop my icon along with apologize for misinterpreting things. I still think it'd be interesting to see how things would change if he were gone for good.

Again, leaving aside any narrative reasons, anything Rich Burlew might have said about the story in passing, the humorous possibilities inherent in addressing D&D-style resurrection, and the fact that Roy, not Elan, is the main character:

The world of the Order of the Stick operates, very clearly and explicitly, under D&D 3.5 rules. This means that returning from the dead is, by default, established as possible, which has been confirmed in-story by a couple of incidents in the Azure City throne room. One of those also established that Durkon himself can bring people back, given the appropriate material component. Further, the circumstances under which it can occur are also clearly outlined by the D&D rules, and the aforementioned incidents also confirm that those rules are in force.

Either:
Roy's mostly-intact body needs to be brought to Durkon (or to some other cleric of at least 9th level) within a week or three, along with 5,000gp of diamonds, he needs to cast raise dead, and Roy needs to be willing to return to life.

Or:
Some small part of Roy's body needs to be brought to Durkon (or some other cleric of at least 13th level) within a century or two, along with 10,000 gp of diamonds, he needs to cast resurrection, and Roy needs to be willing to return to life.

(Or, as an outside possibility, a cleric of at least 17th level, with 25,000 gp of diamonds and naught else but the ability to unambiguously identify Roy, needs to cast true resurrection sometime in the next 170-200 years.)

Now, I outlined earlier my reasons for believing that Roy is willing to return to life. I have no doubt at all that Durkon is willing to cast the spell necessary to do it. The diamonds are trickier to come by, but shouldn't be impossible for mid-to-high level characters like the OotS, and once the corpse is brought to Durkon, they're under no real time limit for acquiring them, even for the cheaper raise dead (they can definitely produce the salt and pennies necessary for Durkon to cast gentle repose as often as required). And even Haley, given the choice between her precious treasure and Roy's life, will come down - after much soul-searching - on Roy's side (she is, after all, risking her own life to recover his body for raising, knowing all of the above).

Put all together, that means that pretty much the only scenario in which Roy will not be brought back is if Team Flopsy should fail to get even a small portion of Roy's body back to Durkon. That requires either the body to somehow be completely and unrecoverably lost - and even the dust left by a disintegrate is enough body for a resurrection - or for Haley and Belkar to fail to get to the junk, which probably means their deaths as well. And not only is that fully half of the Order gone, which I consider beyond unlikely, but Elan and Durkon would certainly insist on going to Haley and Roy's rescue, with Vaarsuvius and possibly an NPC or three accompanying them, and either succeed, in which case we're back to step one, only maybe with more diamonds required, or die trying.

In other words, if Roy is not brought back from the dead, the comic ends. Not because he's the main character (though he is), but because the only reasonable circumstance in which it could occur is a total party kill.

[....]

Right, here's the quote.

She's on the off part.

The Giant could easily include her with a few flashbacks and memories and still keep her as a recurring character, which is all she ever was.

Roy, however, is a central character. I doubt very much he'll be staying dead.

I also think you've got a slightly skewed viewpoint on all this, as you seem to think Elan is the greatest thing since the orgasm.

(EDIT: Not Zafuel, Charles Phipps.)

[Charles Phipps]

In other words, if Roy is not brought back from the dead, the comic ends. Not because he's the main character (though he is), but because the only reasonable circumstance in which it could occur is a total party kill.

1. Roy gets turned into undead.

2. Roy's body gets destroyed.

3. Roy's body is eaten.

4. Haley and Belkar have to leave it behind.

I can think of reasons.

[Tulisin]

I really wish he hadn't died. His death really doesn't mean anything because he is most likely to be resurrected. It was just to shock the readers. Anyway, I'm sure the next story arc will about resurrecting Roy.


Well, I doubt he's just standing around in limbo doing nothing.
He's not just going to be resurrected, hop up and declare "On to the next gate!"

Seeing as how he died fighting the arch villian, and could not defeat him, this is the perfect time for a DBZ-esque "You beat me, but now I'm back from the dead with my new weapon of badassery/knowledge of how to defeat you/special heaven skills/hardened resolve".

[VanBuren]

1. Roy gets turned into undead.

As far as I am aware, you can kill the undead, and then ressurect the corpse.


2. Roy's body gets destroyed.

If the ashes from a disintegrate spell are enough for a Ressurrection, then how many ways are there to reduce the body beyond that?


3. Roy's body is eaten.

And somehow they find themselves unable to kill the monster and pull him out?


4. Haley and Belkar have to leave it behind.

Yeah, that's likely to happen, considering that their whole goal was to retrieve it.


I can think of reasons.

Any better ones?

[David Argall]

1. Roy gets turned into undead.

2. Roy's body gets destroyed.

3. Roy's body is eaten.

4. Haley and Belkar have to leave it behind.

I can think of reasons.

No convincing you, is there? Well, take a little limited comfort.

There have been a lot of cries for a Roy in Heaven side-quest. Such would likely be too long to put in the current book, but might do well at the start of the next. If so, Roy will stay dead until the end of this book.
Of course, it will be obvious he is about to be raised by then, but he will still be dead for another few months our time.

[Elandegenerate]

bah, your missing something REALLY important that only Nerf, and the (as im starting to see) the oh so smart John Cambell; have been the only ones to touch.


Simple fact is, We have seen enough of Roy's father that, not only if stuck in the same place for eternity, would he continute his "you chose to be a fighter" bickering, but we all know that he is NOT going to let it go that roy got himself killed (EXPESSIALLY since it is slightly possible that a mage could have at least gotten away with a bit of luck).

now, in any other story this might not be to relavant. But this is OoTS, there is no way that Roy is going to stand his father, he is going to do everything in his power to get away from him. And if not for that, if he is willing enough to fight and army of 30 thousand hobgoblins and a lich on a flying dragon because of his sense of responsibility, that same extreme sense of responsibility is going to force him to find some way back because he knows he cant rely on his sister to do anything responsible like carry out the oath. I know she is capable, but Roy is to responsible to leave it to chance.


post note: I think Belkar regards Roy as his friend in teh best possible way that he can consider someone on his hate list. Just so happens that everything not on lust is good for slaughter. He was after all willing to get himself killed just to spite Miko

[silvadel]

Just be glad Haley was the one carrying roy... If belkar were carrying roy instead then the mitd might have flopsy instead of stiffly.

I think they will bring him back, but I think the story would run better if they didnt.

[The Extinguisher]

I love how everyone is saying that they've spent all this time retriving Roy's body (Only 7 comics, I might add) so that means they obviously have to bring him back to life. Of course, the comic has never done something unexpected and breaking of the pattern for the purpose of jokes and plot. Nope, never.

I mean, he'll probably come back eventually, but there's a lot of comic left, and the comic seems to get along pretty well without him. No sense bringing him back before his death means anything. I honestly don't see him coming back until the reach Girard's Gate, Maybe not the gate itself, but once they start searching for it. Because there will be a big plot the Western Contienent.

[John Campbell]

1. Roy gets turned into undead.

2. Roy's body gets destroyed.

3. Roy's body is eaten.

These all prevent the use of raise dead, but do not prevent the use of resurrection.

Unless "destroyed" means "completely, totally, utterly annihilated", which, given that the dust remaining after a disintegrate is explicitly stated to be sufficient to resurrect someone from, is something far easier said than done. And I'm having trouble conceiving of any reason anyone would even attempt it... the bad guys just don't care that much about Roy, and people don't generally go around trying to utterly annihilate random corpses for no good reason.


4. Haley and Belkar have to leave it behind.

If they can make it out alive themselves, they can make it out with enough of Roy's body for resurrection to work. All it takes is a pixel or two clipped off his fingernails.

If they don't make it out alive themselves, then we're just back to Elan, Durkon, and Vaarsuvius having to rescue and raise/resurrect the lot of them... neither Elan nor Durkon will leave either Roy or Haley behind, and V'll go along with them. (And if that fails, again, end of comic. TPK.)

And, anyway, Belkar's not leaving that corpse behind as long as the Mark of Justice is active, and Haley's probably just about as loyal for less selfish reasons.


I can think of reasons.

Well, give us some more. Maybe one of the next batch will be valid.


Seeing as how he died fighting the arch villian, and could not defeat him, this is the perfect time for a DBZ-esque "You beat me, but now I'm back from the dead with my new weapon of badassery/knowledge of how to defeat you/special heaven skills/hardened resolve".

Actually, he'll come back weaker and less knowledgeable... by one experience level, to be precise. But the hardened resolve thing is likely!

[Nightgaunt]

and the comic seems to get along pretty well without him.

Actually I think the comic suffers quite a bit without Roy, I never really noticed it until his absence. But maybe it's because I was always a closet Roy lover and never noticed?




<snip>the perfect time for a DBZ-esque<snip>


Does that mean the next hundred comics is going to be about Roy traveling across Snake road to learn a secret Greatsword attack?:smallbiggrin:

[Tulisin]

Does that mean the next hundred comics is going to be about Roy traveling across Snake road to learn a secret Greatsword attack?:smallbiggrin:

Seems likely enough.

[horseboy]

However, it is difficult to not see that Luke is still the main character.

Slight side note: Star Wars is about Darth Vader and his redemption. Luke is just a tool. :smallamused:

But I have too much faith in Belkar. It's in his best interest, and when it's in his best interest he makes sure it gets done, however his squirrelly brain can think of it. :belkar:

[Anthea]

There are six main good characters:

Elan, Vaarsuvius, Roy, Durkon, Belkar and Haley.
Well, Belkar is a main character. He doesn't seem to be really a good character. Sort of antagonizing protagonist.

There even once was a hint to a raise dead, when Belkar led Miko to hunt him. And even there was the question about where to find the few little wealthy items needed for that, which Blekar simply hadn't thought about.

And yes, I definitely miss some pre-afterlife-scene where Roy's dad is chiding and chaffing Roy about his predicted failure to eliminate Xykon. And I miss the appearance of Celia. Roy still has the talisman to call her. Maybe :haley: can use that, too, to get some special assistance?

[Ronald_saveloy]

Just be glad Haley was the one carrying roy... If belkar were carrying roy instead then the mitd might have flopsy instead of stiffly.

No, definitely not! Belkar is bound to the stupid mark of justice. It was the only reason for him to go on the sortie to recover Roy's body. He even insisted on not stuffing roy into the bag of holding because of his fear, that would count as another dimension and set off the curse.
If Belkar would have left Roy behind with MitD, Belkar would be screwed too, as he can't be more than one mile away from Roy's corpse (at least, he thinks so!)

[Lamech]

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Reincarnate as a method to return Roy to life. So many jokes can be made about that.
Also there is at least one non-core spell that would make it hard to ressurect Roy, so that would let Redcloak stop Roy from coming back.

[malakim2099]

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Reincarnate as a method to return Roy to life. So many jokes can be made about that.
Also there is at least one non-core spell that would make it hard to ressurect Roy, so that would let Redcloak stop Roy from coming back.

Question is... why would he bother? He has bigger fish to fry.

And please keep these threads up Charles, I'd miss your weekly "Why I think Roy should stay dead" rants if you didn't, mainly so you can look like a bigger and bigger goof. :smallamused:

Roy's coming back. Probably won't be anytime SOON (mainly because there's afterlife stuff to deal with), but he will. Oh, and to the guy saying Roy is stuck outside the afterlife because of Eugene's Oath? The oath binds Eugene until he or his descendants strike down Xykon. It doesn't say anything about binding Roy. Roy is doing it because he's Lawful Good, and while Eugene is an arrogant, selfish twit, he IS Roy's father. :P

Now, if the Roy in the circle gets replaced by Elan or Haley... okay, then I might start to wonder.

[Elphir]

Slight side note: Star Wars is about Darth Vader and his redemption. Luke is just a tool. :smallamused:

But I have too much faith in Belkar. It's in his best interest, and when it's in his best interest he makes sure it gets done, however his squirrelly brain can think of it. :belkar:

You just made me think of a horrible scenario:

Imagine it, we find out Redcloak is actually Roy's father, and Haley is his sister.

In the final battle climax, Roy begs Redcloak for mercy, and Redcloak throws Xykon in a giant chasm, found in Kraagor's Tomb.

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

-----------------------------------

Hmm...I think Roy will get resurrected, but not soon. Haley and Belkar get a sidequest thing, and will eventually meet up with Hinjo, V and the rest.

I crave for Afterlife jokes.

[Alex Kidd]

And as someone else said, Team Evil don't care bout Roy. NINJA'D

Big problem with this is the Order needs Roy, badly. Why? Authority, Haley has smarts, Elan has charisma, Durkon has endurance. But what are they gonna do about Belkar and V? Eventually those fights of theirs are gonna escalate without Roy controlling them. Someday Belkar's gonna turn V's ears into sheaths for his daggers, or the Tentacles of forced intrusion will turn Belkar into swiss cheese from the inside out.

Hinjo you say? He cant be long term, cause well even ignoring the Azurites, you think he could operate with Belkar by choice? Ignoring that, you think V would listen to him, we all know his/her's opinion of secular authority and paladins, not to mention how much weaker he is than V, really considering the smack down he gets from everyone, including fallen Miko, he can't be near the Order level wise.

So the Order is now down V and Belkar (assuming the killer would no longer be welcome, certain with Belkar, not so much with V), until a sidequest or something shiny pulled Elan off and dragged Haley with him(first damsel in distress peasant farmer, first fight with Haley). That leaves Durkon, stoically marching alone towards Team Evil.

No Roy, no Order. They can survive in the short term, but only like a boat with holes in the bottom will float for a while.

[SteveMB]

See, to maintain their own reputations, OotS (excepting Belkar), will do everything in their power to bring Roy back. Oh, that and they're(excepting Belkar) his friends. :smallsmile:

OotS (including Belkar) will do everything in their power to bring Roy back. Getting him rezzed beats dragging his carcass around for the rest of his life.

[John Campbell]

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Reincarnate as a method to return Roy to life. So many jokes can be made about that.

If the OotS had a druid, I'd've mentioned it. On the up side, it's the cheapest method of getting a dead PC back in the game. On the down side... Wheel! Of! Species!

Sadly, it won't turn its victims into badgers or whatnot anymore, unless they get that unlucky 00 and the DM is exceptionally cruel (actually, that latter is probably a given), which downgrades it from comedy gold to maybe comedy electrum. But we could always hope for a kobold!


Also there is at least one non-core spell that would make it hard to ressurect Roy, so that would let Redcloak stop Roy from coming back.

Barghest's feast would do it, and Redcloak should be able to cast it. Soul bind, which we know from SoD that Xykon can cast, would also have done it, but it's too late for that now. In either case, if they cared enough about Roy to try to prevent him from being raised, they'd've at least sent some minions to collect the corpse instead of just leaving it to lie where he fell until the MitD picked it up for a tea party.

[malakim2099]

If the OotS had a druid, I'd've mentioned it. On the up side, it's the cheapest method of getting a dead PC back in the game. On the down side... Wheel! Of! Species!


You know, THAT would be an awesome strip. Just have one of the Nature Gods with a Wheel of Fortune setup, and an angelic Vanna flipping the various choices while Roy is going, "You have GOT to be kidding me!"

[Hagentai]

Let's wait and see; Roy's suit of Plot Armour has seen him through many a tough time in the past, and the Resurrection Function might yet kick in.

Don't you know.. the black guy always dies. Even in the D and D movie.
(I'm just teasing the writer).

Who knows? It's a good story and I'll be curious to see where he goes with it. Is the comic to Roy? Maybe.. but so what. Unless the writer is going to change the title to the adventures of Belker.. I'm fine with a mostly Roy Comic (which even in death he gets a good 25% of the spot light).

[Nerdanel]

It could be both.

Since this is an RPG comic, Roy might be dead for good while the player behind the character brings in Roy 2.0: Roy's little brother who plays exactly the same role in the Order of the Stick but with a different character sheet. The joke would be in how this heretofore completely unmentioned total stranger appears from nowhere to join the group and is instantly not only one of the buddies but the leader too.

[horseboy]

OH! OH! OH! I've got it! Roy's resurrection heralds 4.0!

[Elandegenerate]

i want to see roy and belkar go at it when he comes back as a kobold

[John Campbell]

Hey, maybe the Linear Guild could sign him on as Belkar's EvilGood Opposite.

[kpenguin]

OH! OH! OH! I've got it! Roy's resurrection heralds 4.0!

I could see a joke come out of that.

:elan: Hurry Durkon! Revive Roy!
:durkon: I cannae do it, lad. Since we been converted to te forth edition, I cannae cast many of me spells.
:elan: What?!
:vaarsuvius: It appears that the game developers believed that the Raise Dead and Resurrection spells were far to powerful and thus placed them as higher level spells.
:belkar: Hold on. I have to keep lugging around meatshield because of some rules update? If I see anyone who works for Wizards of the Coast, I'll freakin' murder them
*The lawyers walk in*
:belkar: *evil grin*

[silvadel]

Actually, he'll come back weaker and less knowledgeable... by one experience level, to be precise. But the hardened resolve thing is likely!

More likely *TWO* levels... As the rest of the party gains a level and he loses one.

[the_tick_rules]

but either way he will get a hearty i told you so from his dad.

[Green Bean]

More likely *TWO* levels... As the rest of the party gains a level and he loses one.

Depending on how much XP a Zombie Dragon is worth, it could certainly be less.

[The UnderKing]

There's a 90% (or more) chance that Roy is coming back. But it is possible for him to stay dead. You may say "Well why would Rich go through the trouble of getting the body and all that jazz," ummm why does Rich do anything? It could all be a master plan or it could all just be made up as he goes.

Now your going to say "But Rich has said this or Rich has said that." You people give Rich's statement's way to much credit. He can change his mind. Or lie. (I know! Hersey! Burn Him!)

Anyway I just think that people need to think about other things that could happen with Roy that invole him staying dead. And I think that people need to question Rich's statement's a little more. I mean he is human. (Or maybe not...DUN DUN DUNNN!!!)

[Dingdongtudelu]

He got shot with an arrow in the groin. How can you give up after that, come on.

[mockingbyrd7]

More likely *TWO* levels... As the rest of the party gains a level and he loses one.

I could see something very humorous coming out of that. Roy, fearless leader, is suddenly TWO levels behind. I can see Belkar making tons of jokes out of that, somehow.

[Roderick_BR]

Hmm... Roy is an adventurer. He has a lot of things to do. He still needs to beat Xykon, stop the Snarl menace, etc.
He wants to return. His group (the majority of it) want him to return.
In D&D, high level groups have access to some form of resurrection.
I don't see why he can't return.

In Shojo's case, he decided to stay in after life, and leave things at Hinjo's hands. And I don't see anyone wanting to bring Miko back, unless it's the paladins (or even the 12 Gods) wanting to give her the change to redeem herself.

Thing is: This is D&D, and they can give life back for those that died.

As Durkon himself said: "he won't be any more dead if we wait till tomorrow to resurrect him" (plus dwarven accent)
Now, if Roy's body get lost, things would get bad for him, really, but that would be the only way... if they don't get access to a True Resurrection. Then they don't even need his body.

Even when they beat the Linear Guild once, Haley comments on how not even killing them off would work, because a minion could rise them later.

[Ronald_saveloy]

It could be both.

Since this is an RPG comic, Roy might be dead for good while the player behind the character brings in Roy 2.0: Roy's little brother who plays exactly the same role in the Order of the Stick but with a different character sheet. The joke would be in how this heretofore completely unmentioned total stranger appears from nowhere to join the group and is instantly not only one of the buddies but the leader too.

Roy's lost twin brother (probably evil)? Naaaa, I don't think so. The "evil twin" scheme is already in use, so it would be rather boring to have another twin around.

Maybe Julia joins as a PC, but that would be too strange too.

[Mugen Nightgale]

i think thats roy-hater topic, there is no reason for the group don't ress him. It's taking so long because it's like the real d&d, the group has to get out of danger before use ressurection. Why should they dump roy in some hole and just forget about him if the freaking campaign started with him in the first place?


Haley: well, im tired of carrying roy around, what do you think of just leave him here after we almost got killed by hobbos and a bizarre monter under the umbrella?
Belkar: alrighty.

-.- pretty weird heh?

[Tenebrous]

I don't think there´s much doubt roy will come back.

Some people have said that dead means dead and it should't be a buffy of X-files kind of death but after all, unlike the other two, ressurection is possible, probable, affordable and at hand.

Its not some sort of deus ex machina kind of thing where they kill of the main character (yes, I said THE) and then come out the next season and say "just kidding". I mean, there are THREE different types of spells in the book.

[IronSoldier820]

Hes the main character...no. He'll be back. The story going on with him dead for a bit can work, but with this being the end for him. Nope.

Also, as the person above me kindly pointed out, it actually makes sense. While in most shows, cartoons, whatever, it feels cheesy when someone "dies" and then comes back, in a DnD comic its sort of natural. Characters die all the time, thats what clerics are for.