Out of the Abyss Gloom Stalker.

[Khrysaes]

Hey guys, I reworked my post so it isn't a rambling mass of nonsense.

I could use some help optimizing an AL legal character for an OOTA campaign.

My original thoughts were to create a pirate/smuggler character, the rakish criminal. hence why he was enslaved.


I was thinking of using Gloom Stalker. so PHB + XGTE


Some thoughts I had were:

Gloomstalker for greater invisibility in darkness.

Half/elf for dex/tri-vantage.

Multiclass Fighter Champion for expanded crit range.

Multiclass rogue for larger hits with SA.

Questions:

Which Rogue subclass, I was thinking swash, scout, assassin, or AT. with assassin only being a 3/4 level dip.

Level split?

Melee or ranged?

Levleing order? (Fighter 1st).

Feats? Skulker, Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter if ranged?

Better non hexblade options?

[Khrysaes]

I reworked the OP to be more clear. maybe someone will reply?

[PeteNutButter]

You are all over the map with these builds... kinda like what I do when planning a character.

If you want to avoid the cha classes, since you've done them already, don't make your character with charisma. Simple fact if one of my PCs has 13+ str and cha they will always end up with paladin levels. It's unavoidable for me, so I know if I want to play something else, I have to dump at least one of those stats.

That being said, sounds like you should just make a dex build. Something like wood elf champion 6, gloomstalker 4, assassin 3+ would work. ASIs, something like Eleven Accuracy (Dex to 18), SS, Alert, Dex to 20. It's not amazing, but you go first in combat, and have tri-vantage on every attack. Make 3 attacks, action surge make 2 or 3 more (DM dependent). On subsequent rounds, you can hide for advantage on one attack, use ensnaring strike to restrain foes for advantage, or rely on teammates.

It's not amazing, but it's round one blows the hexblade's "I cast darkness," out of the water. You easily put out over 100 average damage.

By the way, there are no more fighting styles in any published book.

[Khrysaes]

You are all over the map with these builds... kinda like what I do when planning a character.

If you want to avoid the cha classes, since you've done them already, don't make your character with charisma. Simple fact if one of my PCs has 13+ str and cha they will always end up with paladin levels. It's unavoidable for me, so I know if I want to play something else, I have to dump at least one of those stats.

That being said, sounds like you should just make a dex build. Something like wood elf champion 6, gloomstalker 4, assassin 3+ would work. ASIs, something like Eleven Accuracy (Dex to 18), SS, Alert, Dex to 20. It's not amazing, but you go first in combat, and have tri-vantage on every attack. Make 3 attacks, action surge make 2 or 3 more (DM dependent). On subsequent rounds, you can hide for advantage on one attack, use ensnaring strike to restrain foes for advantage, or rely on teammates.

It's not amazing, but it's round one blows the hexblade's "I cast darkness," out of the water. You easily put out over 100 average damage.

By the way, there are no more fighting styles in any published book.

Would the Gloomstalkers level 7 wis save prof, and 3rd level spells(pass without trace notably), be better than the fighter 6?

I was thinking fighter 4. Gloom 8. Rogue 8?

Or gloom 7 Rogue 9 if the rogue feature is better than the ASI.

I guess it depends on how many ASI's I need.

[PeteNutButter]

Would the Gloomstalkers level 7 wis save prof, and 3rd level spells(pass without trace notably), be better than the fighter 6?

I was thinking fighter 4. Gloom 8. Rogue 8?

Or gloom 7 Rogue 9 if the rogue feature is better than the ASI.

I guess it depends on how many ASI's I need.

Yeah gloomstalker 8 is fine instead of the fighter 6. It is probably better in the long run, the fighter just gets there faster with ASIs.

[rbstr]

How high a level are you actually going to get to? I don't think you want to multiclass a billion things.
Do you have an actual concept of stuff you want the character to do?
You just want to "optimize"?

The easiest options go something like:
Wood Elf - start with a 15 in dex so racials put you to 17.
Be a gloomstalker to level 5. Take Archery as your style, Eleven Accuracy at level 4. That gives you extra attack, your fancy advantage and an 18 in dex.
Now you have a choice. You can keep gloomstalking all the way up to greater invisibility, taking sharpshooter at level 8 or you can detour assassin.

Then go Assassin for 4 levels. This gets you advantage on at least some automatically in the first round, auto-crit on surprised folks and sneak attack. And you take sharpshooter at character level 9.

Basically you're a nuke in the first round with three (probably) triadvantaged attacks you can take the -5/+10 on. The three autocrits on surprise is just gravy if you can set it up.

This gets going pretty quickly and doesn't beat around the bush with your character's sneaky flavor. Then after you're higher level take those 3/4 champion levels if you really want them. I think it would be silly to do them earlier.
If you do that though you'll miss out on a fun capstone: Auto-crit Steel Wind Strike when you surprise a group.

[Khrysaes]

How high a level are you actually going to get to? I don't think you want to multiclass a billion things.
Do you have an actual concept of stuff you want the character to do?
You just want to "optimize"?

The easiest options go something like:
Wood Elf - start with a 15 in dex so racials put you to 17.
Be a gloomstalker to level 5. Take Archery as your style, Eleven Accuracy at level 4. That gives you extra attack, your fancy advantage and an 18 in dex.
Now you have a choice. You can keep gloomstalking all the way up to greater invisibility, taking sharpshooter at level 8 or you can detour assassin.

Then go Assassin for 4 levels. This gets you advantage on at least some automatically in the first round, auto-crit on surprised folks and sneak attack. And you take sharpshooter at character level 9.

Basically you're a nuke in the first round with three (probably) triadvantaged attacks you can take the -5/+10 on. The three autocrits on surprise is just gravy if you can set it up.

This gets going pretty quickly and doesn't beat around the bush with your character's sneaky flavor. Then after you're higher level take those 3/4 champion levels if you really want them. I think it would be silly to do them earlier.
If you do that though you'll miss out on a fun capstone: Auto-crit Steel Wind Strike when you surprise a group.

Last game we got to 17 before the end fight. After the end fight the DM said level up to 20.

I would say that the core is 1 fighter/ 5 Ranger/3 rogue. after that probably just getting the ASI, and abilities. Fighter 2 and 3 would increase damage, and chance of crit, and similar aspects for the othher two classes.,

[rbstr]

What is starting fighter actually giving you here? The con save proficiency? How is it "core" at all?

All I see it doing is delaying the good stuff. Putting off ambusher, Elven Accuracy, extra attack, ect. by a level. And with the rogue dip sharpshooter is now 2 levels later. For a fighting style?

[8wGremlin]

Actually getting out of the abyss will be an issue for you.
you may not get the weapons you need, or have the ammo your require.

It might actually be better if you had something that didn't rely on that in someway?

[Khrysaes]

Actually getting out of the abyss will be an issue for you.
you may not get the weapons you need, or have the ammo your require.

It might actually be better if you had something that didn't rely on that in someway?

I originally wanted to make a melee character actually.

[Ventruenox]

Why melee? Gloom Stalker 5/Scout X as a ranged High Elf Sharpshooter build really plays to the strengths provided by Gloom Stalker.

Once you get the pseudo greater invisibility at 3, you keep the advantage by staying around the periphery. Scout 3 lets you rock your action economy to stay in the shadows. Elven Accuracy at 4, and Sharpshooter at character level 8/9 and you are the ultimate ranged beast in the underdark.

Getting Woodcarving Tool proficiency via a background helps with resource scarcity. With some wood you can make 5 arrows on a short rest and 20 on a long one.

High Elf instead of Wood Elf for the Control Flames cantrip. As a Somatic only spell with 60' range, you have a lot of silent utility. You can stay outside the light radius of the party torches to maintain invisibility. You can improvise torches as a means of communication by animating shapes within. You can halve or extinguish the amount of light produced, thus increasing the range of your invisibility. You can create a distraction by spreading fire, or changing the color of an enemy campfire, or making monstrous shapes appear inside the flames.

[rbstr]

Melee is fine. Use a rapier and shield is probably the best option, but you could dual wield.

If you want to go crit fishing via Elven Accuracy that way you really want to organize it ranger 5, champion 3, then rogue whatever after that. I guess you that case start fighter 1, immediately do ranger 5, before fighter 2 and 3, probably 4. Then take whatever ranger or rogue levels you want.
That's still setting back the ASI and extra attack but since you won't have a second feat you want to race to the delay won't matter as much.

[Khrysaes]

Melee is fine. Use a rapier and shield is probably the best option, but you could dual wield.

If you want to go crit fishing via Elven Accuracy that way you really want to organize it ranger 5, champion 3, then rogue whatever after that. I guess you that case start fighter 1, immediately do ranger 5, before fighter 2 and 3, probably 4. Then take whatever ranger or rogue levels you want.
That's still setting back the ASI and extra attack but since you won't have a second feat you want to race to the delay won't matter as much.

Yeah. While i understand that ranged is the more... useful option. The character I had in mind, and the liited resources a nudging my decision towards melee.

Also, if i start melee, and get elven accuracy at 5, then at 9 or so when i get my second asi i can still revist the ranged options. Only difference would be the fighting style chosen, either choosing dueling and archery, or archery and defense.

[PeteNutButter]

Yeah. While i understand that ranged is the more... useful option. The character I had in mind, and the liited resources a nudging my decision towards melee.

Also, if i start melee, and get elven accuracy at 5, then at 9 or so when i get my second asi i can still revist the ranged options. Only difference would be the fighting style chosen, either choosing dueling and archery, or archery and defense.

The problem is elven accuracy isn't all that helpful on a rapier poker. You have 4.5% increased chance to crit for a whopping 4.5 additional damage, that's a DPR increase of .2, a fifth of a damage point. The better hit chance is pretty negligible if you're optimized and already have advantage.

It's only in conjunction with high damage dice or sharpshooter that elven accuracy really shines.

Also I wouldn't start in fighter either. If you are going 5 in ranger, just start ranger. You don't need con saves that badly, and it's not worth the delayed progression.

[Theodoxus]

The gloom stalker (deep stalked UA at the time) player in a game I was in, went Drow, Ranger 5/Assassin 3. He picked up Stalker at 4th, though the gloom stalker bonuses make that pretty obsolete. But on the first round of combat, he had 150' darkvision and got the drop on everything. Crit sneaks at range with a longbow and 3 shots... he was a machine gun. The rest of us mopped up whatever minions were serving the master he pincushioned.

While outside of the huge caverns, the ranges for combat are pretty small, optimizing for ranged combat will keep you alive longer. The Underdark is notorious for nasty things that want to eat you... being able to whittle them down at range is a "good thing".

[Nighthawk513]

TLDR: gloom stalker 5, celestial 3-5 can add a fair amount of healing to a party, in addition to the nova damage. Or go hexblade for more nova. You should really look at warlock 3 for the Shadow Blade spell, as that will allow you to be very, very deadly in melee combat. Also, improved pact weapon for a free +1 bow that you cannot lose, among other things. In addition, gloom stalker 5 allows you to learn rope trick, which will allow you to easily take short rests, recharging your warlock slots.

I am a bit late to this conversation, but I had the chance to create an AL character at level 8 due to DM rewards.
I have run a PHB Hunter ranger to 17 in AL, and my two biggest issues were the fact that if someone gets in your face with a PHB bow ranger, you either disengage, take the opp attack, or just stay in melee. I also ended up in situations where half the party was down and I was one of the only healers, and I had to choose between healing and damaging someone to stop a very big ritual. I did like the healing a higher level ranger could put out, even if the damage is a little lower than some builds. The below build is my fix to those problems, and can also put some big damage spikes in, as well as better spellcasting.
I did gloom stalker 5, celestial warlock 3, as I was going for an expansion on the ranger concept and liked the healing VS just being better at nova bombing one thing (I picked up a oathbow and Eldritch smite for that).
I prefer the warlock saves personally, so I started there. You can start 5 ranger. Your first ASI should be elven accuracy, and a good first turn combo will be to cast Zypher's Strike and use the bonus on your third attack, which means you have 75 feet of first turn movement, don't provoke opportunity attacks for the minute duration of the spell, and roll 3 dice and take the highest on the third attack that does 3d8. Second ASI is sharpshooter for obvious reasons.
Warlock 3 gets you good spells, short rest recharge on second level spells, which you can use for darkness, misty step, rope trick and one of the most broken healing spells, healing spirit. Warlock 5 gets you Eldritch smite, which allows you to smite using a pact weapon just like a paladin. The difference is you can now smite with a bow, but you can only use warlock slots to do so. Tradeoffs. I am planning on going to 11 warlock, because 3 5th level spells is really good.
The last 4 levels of the build will be shadow sorcerer, which means 150 foot darkvision, shield and absorb elements to buff your defense, metamagic (quicken darkness with Devil's Sight for first turn advantage, and subtle spells as well), and having a total of 4 1st level slots, 3 2nds, 3 3rds, and 3 5th level warlock slots, as well as a 6th level arcanum.
You can also take 2-3 fighter for champion, crit fishing, and action surge, which gives you 6 attacks on the first turn, 2 of which hurt worse. You lose a few spell slots that way though.
My character above literally doesn't have hunters mark and has never cast hex. I also solo healed a group going through White Plume Mountain, so you can get a fairly large amount of healing with that build, in addition to good DPR. You also have several almost free "Not dead yet" 60 foot bonus action heals that aren't spells. Once he got sharpshooter at 9th level, the damage is in the 35 range, 60ish on the first turn assuming all shots hit (+6 with sharpshooter) Overall quite satisfied.
However, you might want more burst damage and less healing, and the build can be tweaked for that. 5 gloom stalker, 12 hexblade, 3 champion or assassin is an option for raw first turn damage.