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BlackOnyx
2017-11-22, 02:26 AM
Disregarding other avenues for commanding undead (i.e. rebuke commanding, command undead, summon undead, undead leadership, etc.) what types of undead would you animate for a mid-game entourage? Let's assume a CL of 10-15 (or 40-60 HD of undead for classes besides DN) and the ability to store unneeded minions in a safe, hidden location.


Any style entourage/army (numerous or few, stealthy or strong) goes. Both specific loadouts and general estimates welcome.


(Possibly) useful information:


Undead that can be created via Animate Dead (will update if additional ones are mentioned):

- Skeletons (Variants in Libris Mortis)
- Zombies (Variants in Libris Mortis)
- Skeletal Dragons (Dragonomicon)
- Zombie Dragons (Dragonomicon)
- Dread (Lost Empires of Faerun)
- Necrosis Carnex (MM4)
- Blood Hulk & Variants (MM4)*

From the magazines:
- Bone Lurker ("The Creeping Doom")
- Bone Sting ("The Creeping Doom")
- Kurge (Dragon Annual #5)
- Bone Naga (Dragon #336)
- Entropic Template

*apparently count for 2x HD for the purpose of tracking animate dead control pool



Spells & feats that can be used to enhance undead (non-exhaustive list):

- Corpsecrafter Feats, Various (Libris Mortis)
- Necromancy Specialization Variant (Unearthed Arcana?)
- Desecrate (Spell) Bonus
- Awaken Undead (Spell Compendium) [House rule, if interested: assume undead are able to take class levels as cohorts, 3 cohorts max]
- Disguise Undead (Spell Compendium)
- Haunt Shift (Libris Mortis)
- Vile Death (Heroes of Horror)

Eldariel
2017-11-22, 02:51 AM
Zombie Dragons are pretty great (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499642-Best-Dragon-to-Zombie-Dragon). At least one for transportation + combat. 10-Headed Hydras for combat purposes and Hydra Bombardment. Cut their heads to double their number for a 20-Headed Hydra. Few strong ones way better than many weak ones with the way D&D works. Hell, one Zombie Dragon might be all you need, though a Hydra for brawling is nice too. But the various Zombie Dragon breath weapons are awesome. Take Pyroclastic Dragon's Disintegration line for instance. DC Big AOE Disintegrate on command.

ShurikVch
2017-11-22, 09:56 AM
Daurgothoth, "The Creeping Doom" created Bone Lurker and Bonesting (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020327a) with Animate Dead

Kurge is an Undead invented by some Cult of Tharizdun; basically, it's fall apart from damage, but all parts continue to fight separately; before the animation, creature should be killed with certain rare (and expensive) poison; Kurge was printed in Dragon Annual #5 and Dungeon #87

According to the "Birth of the Dead" article (Dragon #336), Bone Naga is created by a ritual known to dark nagas via the spell animate dead with additional material components including "the ocular fluids of a divine caster and a sentient reptile"; the ritual is "only taught to dark nagas [and] contains... somatic components that humanoids cannot emulate."

There are variants of Skeletons and Zombies in the Libris Mortis

If you animate your Undead on the Negative Energy Plane (doable at CL 15), there is a chance they will get Entropic Creature template

There are some feats from Dragon magazines:

#298
Desecrated Animation: +2 turn resistance
Improved Animation: +1 HD and +1 competence to attack and damage rolls

#312
Bolster Power: +1 turn resistance
Death Curse: explode on destruction - d3/HD damage in 10' radius, Ref 15 to half damage
Graveborn Expert: +4 on checks in Str- or Dex-based skill
Graveborn Warrior: bonus feat
Heightened Agility: +4 Dex
Heightened Strength: +4 Str
Uncanny Speed: +10' on base speed, +2 on initiative checks
Vicious Claws: +1 on damage roll (slashing)
Note: unlike most other means to improve undead, feats from #312 are completely unnecessary during the spellcasting - they work by preparing the corps beforehand; it's mean if you have access to feat change (such as Chameleon's "floating feat") you may use them all on the same creature

Dragon #303 have Embalming Fire - it's alchemical liquid which cause Zombie soaked in it to burst into fire on damage, which give it +1d6 fire damage on unarmed attacks for 1 minute; cost only 50 gp

Notable buffs for Undead minion (all spells are from Spell Compendium)
10 minutes/CL:
1st
Ghoul Light: +1 turn resistance //Hunger domain
2nd
Stone Bones: +3 natural AC
4th
Armor of Darkness: +4 deflection to AC (+1 more per 3 CL above 7), +4 turn resistance, +2 on saves vs. any holy, good, or light spells or effects
Iron Bones: +6 natural AC //Darkness domain

Permanent (D)
7th/9th
Vile Death: undead gets Fiendish Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm) template; spell says it make target independent of you, but it's (D) spell; your minion gets uncooperative - you just dismiss the spell

Also, how about the Constructs? Swarm of Crawling Claws (Lost Empires of Faerūn variant), Dragonbone Golem, Flesh Golem, and Serpentflesh Golem are all required Animate Dead, and look sufficiently "necromantic"...

Coidzor
2017-11-22, 01:40 PM
3 Fire Giant Skeletons are 45 HD altogether, and with class levels as cohorts can get you well covered in the combat department.

Add some black sand all over them and inside their clothing and armor for extra fun and so that a necrosis Carnex is less necessary for healing them.

Zanos
2017-11-22, 01:44 PM
3 Fire Giant Skeletons are 45 HD altogether, and with class levels as cohorts can get you well covered in the combat department.

Add some black sand all over them and inside their clothing and armor for extra fun and so that a necrosis Carnex is less necessary for healing them.
Giant skeletons in plate armor with greatswords has been my go to for awhile. Hard to beat them just for pure face smashing, durability, reach, and availability. I've encountered some variety of CR appropriate giant at least a few times in almost every game I have played.

Bone Lurker and Bonesting (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020327a)
This link 404s for me.

Lazymancer
2017-11-22, 01:54 PM
This link 404s for me.
Let me copy the important bits from there:

Ed Greenwood is an overweight, bespectacled, hirsute rogue who loves crawling through caves and swinging swords at imaginary foes. What he did to the armorer at the local museum last year was purely a misunderstanding.

Also, archived (http://archive.is/PuJBg)

noob
2017-11-22, 02:01 PM
Some outsiders are very awesome as undead(often they get dr flight and a bunch of other things for low hit dice)Planar binding is definitively a source of cool corpses.

Hellpyre
2017-11-22, 06:41 PM
Some outsiders are very awesome as undead(often they get dr flight and a bunch of other things for low hit dice)Planar binding is definitively a source of cool corpses.

How are you retaining those abilities when you reaniate them?

More importantly, how are you reanimatimg outsiders in general?

BlackOnyx
2017-11-22, 07:03 PM
Zombie Dragons are pretty great (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499642-Best-Dragon-to-Zombie-Dragon). At least one for transportation + combat. 10-Headed Hydras for combat purposes and Hydra Bombardment.


That's some good stuff, indeed. The *slow* effect is a bit of a hindrance for zombie dragons, but there should be a few ways to work around that.


Totally with you on the hydra front, too. Used one when I was a 6th level cleric in my current campaign. Quickly realized I had stumbled upon something wonderful. Had to put it down shortly after, unfortunately, but the memories remain. The DM still opens half our sessions with "Last time, on Hydra" some four months later.



Bone Lurker and Bonesting[/URL] with Animate Dead


Kurge is an Undead invented by some Cult of Tharizdun...


According to the "Birth of the Dead" article (Dragon #336), Bone Naga is created by a ritual known to dark nagas via the spell animate dead...


There are variants of Skeletons and Zombies in the Libris Mortis


If you animate your Undead on the Negative Energy Plane (doable at CL 15), there is a chance they will get Entropic Creature template...


Thanks for those, I can't say I'm very familiar with many creatures/templates from the magazines. Some of those undead sound like a solid step up from your usual skeletons & the like.


Libris Mortis variants are a good call too. I'll update that in the description.


Entropic Template is an interesting one, though. Do you know what the % chance is to apply the template?




There are some feats from Dragon magazines:


#298
Desecrated Animation: +2 turn resistance
Improved Animation: +1 HD and +1 competence to attack and damage rolls


#312
Bolster Power: +1 turn resistance
Death Curse: explode on destruction - d3/HD damage in 10' radius, Ref 15 to half damage
Graveborn Expert: +4 on checks in Str- or Dex-based skill
Graveborn Warrior: bonus feat
Heightened Agility: +4 Dex
Heightened Strength: +4 Str
Uncanny Speed: +10' on base speed, +2 on initiative checks
Vicious Claws: +1 on damage roll (slashing)



Those are some good feats (particularly ones that increase the attributes & skill checks).




Note: unlike most other means to improve undead, feats from #312 are completely unnecessary during the spellcasting - they work by preparing the corps beforehand; it's mean if you have access to feat change (such as Chameleon's "floating feat") you may use them all on the same creature


So you're saying the feat is used on the corpse itself? (*After* which point you can cast animate dead, if you so choose?)




Permanent (D)
7th/9th
Vile Death: undead gets Fiendish Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm) template; spell says it make target independent of you, but it's (D) spell; your minion gets uncooperative - you just dismiss the spell


Poor fiends.




Also, how about the Constructs? Swarm of Crawling Claws (Lost Empires of Faerūn variant), Dragonbone Golem, Flesh Golem, and Serpentflesh Golem are all required Animate Dead, and look sufficiently "necromantic"...


Those certainly sound fun (and fit thematically), though I was looking more for undead that could be created with out factoring in xp costs.


Definitely some solid options for after you reach your undead HD cap, though.



3 Fire Giant Skeletons are 45 HD altogether, and with class levels as cohorts can get you well covered in the combat department.


Solid option, indeed.



Add some black sand all over them and inside their clothing and armor for extra fun and so that a necrosis Carnex is less necessary for healing them.


Interesting idea. May have to investigate further. (Though I still like the idea of having a carnex with the personality of a faithful lapdog.)

ShurikVch
2017-11-23, 01:12 PM
Entropic Template is an interesting one, though. Do you know what the % chance is to apply the template?You see, logic there is:
What is Entropic Creature? It's native resident of the Negative Energy Plane (same way as Fiendish Creature - for Evil-aligned Outer Planes)
Entropic Creature template is applicable to Undead (and even have special rules for such cases)
While in some cases Undead may appear "naturally", those aren't that different from those which were created via spells.
Thus, any Undeads, animated on the Negative Energy Plane, are native to it, and should have Entropic Creature templatePotentially, chance is 100%
But DM may disagree...


Those are some good feats (particularly ones that increase the attributes & skill checks).

So you're saying the feat is used on the corpse itself? (*After* which point you can cast animate dead, if you so choose?)Yes.
For example, Heightened Agility, Heightened Strength, and Uncanny Speed are required Heal checks to apply them (DCs are 13, 13, and 16); fluff text says you're surgically altering the corpse
And Vicious Claws additionally required 5 gp worth of "bladed weapons"
Furthermore, RAW for Death Curse, Heightened Agility, Heightened Strength, and Uncanny Speed says directly you should spent whole day to prepare the corpse
Preparations required 25 gp of material components (unspecified) for Death Curse; 25, 25, and 50 gp of "crushed gems" for Heightened Agility, Heightened Strength, and Uncanny Speed
Besides that almost all of those feats make resulting Undead count as +1 HD "for the purpose of control" (except the Death Curse and Uncanny Speed - they're +2 HD)


Also, granted power of Deathbound domain (Afflux, Libris Mortis) increases your limit for controlling undead animated with spells to three times your caster level instead of the normal two times caster level.
For Cleric, it's easy to get it; Wizard may take it via Domain Granted Power ACF (Complete Champion); and for any other class - there is Planar Touchstone: the Catalogues of Enlightenment (Planar Handbook)