Is there a guide to Hexblades yet?

[Ravinsild]

I was wondering if anyone had updated a Warlock guide, or made an entire guide on its own, for the Hexblade?

I've got a concept in mind that's mostly RP but I'd like to at least be somewhat competitive and functional in the group without being a massive burden. Therefore I was wondering if there was a guide to building at least a semi-decent Hexblade and sidestepping any trap or just plain terrible options.

[Lombra]

Just play it straight and you're golden. It's hard to mess it up.

[Soleil]

We've been discussing in the ranged warlock thread.

TL;DR: Triple advantage half-elf (maybe drow for extra darkness) with GWM and PAM. Could also go for Oathbreaker 8/Hexblade 12 for aura of pain.

[Ravinsild]

Just play it straight and you're golden. It's hard to mess it up.

I was not sure if I needed a dip into Paladin or Fighter for Great Weapon Fighter style or something. I was thinking of a greatsword user that uses lots of cold magic/immobilizing magic/slows to inhabilitate people and then teleport to them and smack them. I notice they get blink and such spells as well as the relentless Hex, etc for a very sticky striker.

I don't love Polearms, nor does it fit my idea. Basically I have a dark/shadow/icy caster character concept that uses a lot of the new spells and of course some old to mix and match reducing movement speed/immobilizing/etc and then get on top of them or following up quickly if they use magic to get away.

I was thinking like Hexblade 12 or 14 and Shadow Sorcerer 6 or 8. Mostly I just want to hit things and look cool doing it with a concrete theme. Think like Kayn from League of Legends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPaauwI6G5s

[Rysto]

I was not sure if I needed a dip into Paladin or Fighter for Great Weapon Fighter style or something.

Nah. If you were going to dip for a fighting style, Defence would probably be the one to take anyway, but I expect you'd be better served stayed single classed and not delaying your spellcasting progression.

[Ravinsild]

Nah. If you were going to dip for a fighting style, Defence would probably be the one to take anyway, but I expect you'd be better served stayed single classed and not delaying your spellcasting progression.

Oh ok so I don't need like COn saves to keep hex up or anything incase I get hit ?

[Elric VIII]

I've been playing a hexblade for a while now and the best advice I can give you is that you are essentially trading your versatility for a more solid role as a striker. You have access to better feats (my DM let me use heavy weapons with Blade Pact prior to the Xanathar's update) but you have less freedom in your build.

Eldritch Smite is rarely worth it, I've ditched the invocation at this point. I'm enjoying Warcaster + EB/AB in its place.

Blink + darkness is amazingly cool and very effective. Blink gets you out of the way of your allies with your cloud of darkness. I'm exceited to try out Shadow of Moil this week as a darkness replacement.

Defensive spells are super useful, but don't neglect debuffs. Think of yourself as a squishier Battlemaster with more crowd control at your disposal. With each encounter you need to decide of you are going to be caster primary or melee primary. This is true even if your build is full-on melee with GWM, etc.

[Ravinsild]

Does this game have stats for a Scythe for a weapon? If not I'll just use Greatsword stats and say it looks like a Scythe. PS I know "War Scythes" and Scythes aren't real weapons. They're farming tools, etc. Well I want a rule of cool character so w/e.

[Spiritchaser]

1. Decide if you are going full on GWM or not (I’d suggest it, it’s a cool build and there’s no other warlock that really matches it for close up grrrr arg factor ), but there’s nothing wrong with a more general build

2. Decide between half elf and V-human (sorry ever other race) I strongly suggest half elf, but there’s no denying that the build works on feats, and Vhuman just gets there faster. Once you hit level 8, I’d say the elf is much better, but earlier on its probably not.

2b. assuming you went half elf, pick standard or, if not AL, consider half drow variant. I like the skills, I like the spells... probably no bad choice here.

3. Decide on a level of fighter or not. The hexblade at my table did, for heavy armor and con save.

4. Pick your stat array. You want 14 Dex, the maximum CHA your race allows and Con. You can dump STR and or INT to get a 12 in WIS or not, up to you. If you went fighter you want 15 str and you’ll be dumping something.

5. If you’re VHUMan, Take GWM

6. Take Devils sight, and when you hit 3 take blade pact and the darkness spell

7. Controversial: I'd actually take elven accuracy at level 4 with half elf instead of GWM. I know it's lower damage, but it's more versatile. It means you aren’t really playing your character the way you want to play them until level 8. I can quite see the logic of GWM first... but for me? I’d likely be just fine.

[Ravinsild]

1. Decide if you are going full on GWM or not (I’d suggest it, it’s a cool build and there’s no other warlock that really matches it for close up grrrr arg factor ), but there’s nothing wrong with a more general build

2. Decide between half elf and V-human (sorry ever other race) I strongly suggest half elf, but there’s no denying that the build works on feats, and Vhuman just gets there faster. Once you hit level 8, I’d say the elf is much better, but earlier on its probably not.

2b. assuming you went half elf, pick standard or, if not AL, consider half drow variant. I like the skills, I like the spells... probably no bad choice here.

3. Decide on a level of fighter or not. The hexblade at my table did, for heavy armor and con save.

4. Pick your stat array. You want 14 Dex, the maximum CHA your race allows and Con. You can dump STR and or INT to get a 12 in WIS or not, up to you. If you went fighter you want 15 str and you’ll be dumping something.

5. If you’re VHUMan, Take GWM

6. Take Devils sight, and when you hit 3 take blade pact and the darkness spell

7. Controversial: I'd actually take elven accuracy at level 4 with half elf instead of GWM. I know it's lower damage, but it's more versatile.

Does FULL GWM mean the PAM with Shield cheese stuff?

[Spiritchaser]

Does FULL GWM mean the PAM with Shield cheese stuff?

I would definitely take PAM, though personally I’d seriously consider it a bit later. I’d use a two handed reach polearm.

I presume by shield cheese you mean quarterstaff and shield? If so then no. Quite apart from the absurdity of it, reach is pretty good.

Running Darkness with medium armor makes you quite hard to hit, even without a shield.

[Soleil]

Does this game have stats for a Scythe for a weapon? If not I'll just use Greatsword stats and say it looks like a Scythe. PS I know "War Scythes" and Scythes aren't real weapons. They're farming tools, etc. Well I want a rule of cool character so w/e.

I'd refluff a glaive as a scythe, makes more sense than a GS. Scythe has a pole after all.

[Ravinsild]

I'd refluff a glaive as a scythe, makes more sense than a GS. Scythe has a pole after all.

You are right, so I decided to wield a glaive. Plus in video games and anime and such things often the person wielding the Scythe will do a sweeping attack bringing the blade toward them, then turn it and use the polearm end to jab with it - just like the Polearm Mastery feat. Like sweep then stab with the butt-end.


1. Decide if you are going full on GWM or not (I’d suggest it, it’s a cool build and there’s no other warlock that really matches it for close up grrrr arg factor ), but there’s nothing wrong with a more general build

2. Decide between half elf and V-human (sorry ever other race) I strongly suggest half elf, but there’s no denying that the build works on feats, and Vhuman just gets there faster. Once you hit level 8, I’d say the elf is much better, but earlier on its probably not.

2b. assuming you went half elf, pick standard or, if not AL, consider half drow variant. I like the skills, I like the spells... probably no bad choice here.

3. Decide on a level of fighter or not. The hexblade at my table did, for heavy armor and con save.

4. Pick your stat array. You want 14 Dex, the maximum CHA your race allows and Con. You can dump STR and or INT to get a 12 in WIS or not, up to you. If you went fighter you want 15 str and you’ll be dumping something.

5. If you’re VHUMan, Take GWM

6. Take Devils sight, and when you hit 3 take blade pact and the darkness spell

7. Controversial: I'd actually take elven accuracy at level 4 with half elf instead of GWM. I know it's lower damage, but it's more versatile. It means you aren’t really playing your character the way you want to play them until level 8. I can quite see the logic of GWM first... but for me? I’d likely be just fine.

1. Yes, a Glaive which "Counts As" Scythe for aesthetic purposes. That means GWM Feat and Polearm Mastery feat, correct?

2. Half-Elf Drow Variant because I want to play a Drow in appearance but skip the Sunlight Sensitivity Drawback. Mostly chosen for "Rule of Cool" because Drow are my favorite aesthetically.

2b. Not Adventure League. It's a home game. We're doing the book stat rolls 4d6 drop the lowest 6 times those are your stats. I got 10, 11, 11, 14, 15, 18.

3. How much do I need it? Can I survive without heavy armor? What's the best possible armor I can get without it and how much AC? Will I be squishy? Is there a risk that important spells, or minor spells, I want to concentrate on, being in melee, will often get interrupted/canceled?

4. I chose 18 Cha (20 with race bump), 15 Dexterity (16 with Stat bumps), 14 Con (15 with Stat Bump), 11 Wisdom, 11 Intelligence, 10 Strength

5. Not a VHuman

6. I was planning on it due to my character concept :P Plus I get a free cast of darkness for Drow Magic at 5th level which is nice.

7. I'll consider it. More Accuracy means hitting more often, which means more damage. Misses don't deal damage, and you don't deal damage if you're dead.

I built a test character up to 14 (probably the farthest we will make it tbh) just to see which Invocations and Spells I would choose to solidify my character's theme of darkness and cold type magic and high mobility.

Invocations:

Devil's Sight
Thief of Five Fates
Thirsting Blade
Maddening Hex
Improved Pact Weapon
Lifedrinker

Spells:
Chill Touch
Frostbite
Infestation
Toll the Dead
Bane
Hex
Darkness
Invisibility
Misty Step
Blink
Fear
Hunger of Hadar
Shadow of Moil
Sickening Radiance
Enervation
Far Step
Negative Energy Flood
Soul Cage
Etherealness

I was going for spells which would have a dark/shadow/cold theme for control and damage and mobility to keep up with enemies or get to a "marked" target with my curse and hex. Basically I want to be able to go where I want, when I want, and be hard to hit and just have a cool cohesive theme.

[Spiritchaser]

You are right, so I decided to wield a glaive. Plus in video games and anime and such things often the person wielding the Scythe will do a sweeping attack bringing the blade toward them, then turn it and use the polearm end to jab with it - just like the Polearm Mastery feat. Like sweep then stab with the butt-end.



1. Yes, a Glaive which "Counts As" Scythe for aesthetic purposes. That means GWM Feat and Polearm Mastery feat, correct?

2. Half-Elf Drow Variant because I want to play a Drow in appearance but skip the Sunlight Sensitivity Drawback. Mostly chosen for "Rule of Cool" because Drow are my favorite aesthetically.

2b. Not Adventure League. It's a home game. We're doing the book stat rolls 4d6 drop the lowest 6 times those are your stats. I got 10, 11, 11, 14, 15, 18.

3. How much do I need it? Can I survive without heavy armor? What's the best possible armor I can get without it and how much AC? Will I be squishy? Is there a risk that important spells, or minor spells, I want to concentrate on, being in melee, will often get interrupted/canceled?

4. I chose 18 Cha (20 with race bump), 15 Dexterity (16 with Stat bumps), 14 Con (15 with Stat Bump), 11 Wisdom, 11 Intelligence, 10 Strength

5. Not a VHuman

6. I was planning on it due to my character concept :P Plus I get a free cast of darkness for Drow Magic at 5th level which is nice.

7. I'll consider it. More Accuracy means hitting more often, which means more damage. Misses don't deal damage, and you don't deal damage if you're dead.

I built a test character up to 14 (probably the farthest we will make it tbh) just to see which Invocations and Spells I would choose to solidify my character's theme of darkness and cold type magic and high mobility.

Invocations:

Devil's Sight
Thief of Five Fates
Thirsting Blade
Maddening Hex
Improved Pact Weapon
Lifedrinker

Spells:
Chill Touch
Frostbite
Infestation
Toll the Dead
Bane
Hex
Darkness
Invisibility
Misty Step
Blink
Fear
Hunger of Hadar
Shadow of Moil
Sickening Radiance
Enervation
Far Step
Negative Energy Flood
Soul Cage
Etherealness

I was going for spells which would have a dark/shadow/cold theme for control and damage and mobility to keep up with enemies or get to a "marked" target with my curse and hex. Basically I want to be able to go where I want, when I want, and be hard to hit and just have a cool cohesive theme.

I would note that the only hexblade I’ve seen still spends about a third of his time rocking agonizing blast... might be worth thinking about.

[prototype00]

I would note that the only hexblade I’ve seen still spends about a third of his time rocking agonizing blast... might be worth thinking about.

Hmm the vital Hexblade Invocations are Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon and Devil’s Sight. Since you get 4 Invocations by 7th level and you can switch them out every level from 3rd onwards, I see no reason not to cover your ranged options with Agonizing Blast?

Hmm, EB hasSomatic components, so Sword and Board Hexblades might have the short end of the stick there, whereas Glaive-Blades are sitting pretty.

[B0nes]

2b. Not Adventure League. It's a home game. We're doing the book stat rolls 4d6 drop the lowest 6 times those are your stats. I got 10, 11, 11, 14, 15, 18.

3. How much do I need it? Can I survive without heavy armor? What's the best possible armor I can get without it and how much AC? Will I be squishy? Is there a risk that important spells, or minor spells, I want to concentrate on, being in melee, will often get interrupted/canceled?

4. I chose 18 Cha (20 with race bump), 15 Dexterity (16 with Stat bumps), 14 Con (15 with Stat Bump), 11 Wisdom, 11 Intelligence, 10 Strength


If you want to go heavy armor, you will need 15 STR for plate and probably your first level in fighter. I'd go with medium armor, with half-plate giving 17 AC with 14 DEX. As for stat array, I think you have 3 main options:

- Heavy Armor: 14(+1) STR, 11 DEX, 15(+1) CON, 10 INT, 11 WIS, 18(+2) CHA. This requires a level one dip into fighter for Heavy Armor proficiency, and also gives proficiency in CON saves.

- Medium Armor: 10 STR, 14 DEX, 15(+1) CON, 11 INT, 11(+1) WIS, 18(+2) CHA. You only need 14 DEX to get 17AC, so I think you should bump your WIS since it's a common save and has some useful skills. If you get Elven Accuracy, put the +1 into INT to bump up other saves/skills.

- Medium Armor: 10 STR, 15(+1) DEX, 14(+1) CON, 11 INT, 11 WIS, 18(+2) CHA. This build will assume you don't take Elven Accuracy (unless you get extra feats), instead opting for Medium Armor Master. This gives you +1AC and let's you be sneaky.

I think the second option is the best, unless your DM hands out feats as rewards/downtime training.

[Soleil]

I would drop maddening hex since it competes with PAM and would choose cloak of flies instead. It's more useful and it probably helps with the dark feel you're looking for.

[Ravinsild]

I would drop maddening hex since it competes with PAM and would choose cloak of flies instead. It's more useful and it probably helps with the dark feel you're looking for.

Yeah Cloak of Flies seems awesome. I'm a really big fan. Or I could drop Maddening Hex for Agonizing Blast. I was actually not planning on taking Eldritch Blast because I was mostly wanting to get into melee and fight like a warrior rather than a spell caster. My magic would be mostly to get close, escape, or become tankier.

[Arkhios]

Note that the Hex Warrior 1st-level class feature, which lets you use charisma instead of strength or dexterity to attack, only works with melee weapons which lack the two-handed property, unless/until you take the Pact of the Blade at 3rd level.
(Yes, you can be a Hexblade with Pact of the Chain or Tome and still make attacks with a weapon using charisma!)

[Sigreid]

Note that the Hex Warrior 1st-level class feature, which lets you use charisma instead of strength or dexterity to attack, only works with melee weapons which lack the two-handed property, unless/until you take the Pact of the Blade at 3rd level.
(Yes, you can be a Hexblade with Pact of the Chain or Tome and still make attacks with a weapon using charisma!)

One thing I've not seen brought up is if you want to be in the thick of melee, a chain pact hexblade can take the chain pact only invocation so that when you spend HD you always get max value. That can add up to a lot of healing over a few short rests with you ALWAYS knowing how many dice you need to spend.

[Ravinsild]

An alternate take on this, would it be worth it to go Hexblade Warlock Pact Blade 3, then the rest Shadow Sorcerer for a dark caster theme? Would it tank my melee ability? I'd like more spells than like 4 spell slots total for mobility/etc..

Or Hexblade 5 for the extra attack for maximum melee potential then Shadow Sorc 15 for lots of spells so I can keep doing misty step or blink or whatever is needed plus the cool damage spells.

[D-naras]

Well if you plan to melee as a Hexblade/Sorcerer, you have 2 choices for solid damage: go Hexblade 5 for the second attack (works better with magic weapons, buffs to weapons, the Hexblade's cure and hex, while also making the char feel like more of a warrior) or any combination of levels and rely on the SCAG melee cantrips which both classes can get.

Since your concept is a cold damage-dealing, teleporting warrior, I'd go with at least Hexblade 5.

[Ravinsild]

Well if you plan to melee as a Hexblade/Sorcerer, you have 2 choices for solid damage: go Hexblade 5 for the second attack (works better with magic weapons, buffs to weapons, the Hexblade's cure and hex, while also making the char feel like more of a warrior) or any combination of levels and rely on the SCAG melee cantrips which both classes can get.

Since your concept is a cold damage-dealing, teleporting warrior, I'd go with at least Hexblade 5.

Yeah I'm thinking either pure Hexblade or Hexblade 5 Pact of the Blade (Glaive) then everything else Sorcerer until the campaign ends.

[Kobard]

Going Hexblade 5 / Sorcerer X, however, has some fairly steep costs, namely that you lose two ASIs/feats and your 9th level spell. Extra Attack is undeniably useful, but if you are mostly sorcerer, then it seems that foregoing the Extra Attack in favor of the melee cantrips (i.e., Booming Blade and Greenflame) might be the easier route and requires less overall investment.

[Ravinsild]

Going Hexblade 5 / Sorcerer X, however, has some fairly steep costs, namely that you lose two ASIs/feats and your 9th level spell. Extra Attack is undeniably useful, but if you are mostly sorcerer, then it seems that foregoing the Extra Attack in favor of the melee cantrips (i.e., Booming Blade and Greenflame) might be the easier route and requires less overall investment.

My largest problem is that I'm not sure which path stays the most competitive throughout the levels. I know EB spam is like the standard king, and I know that GWM+Polearm Mastery is the king of melee regardless.

So where does Cantrip melee spam compare to EB spam (ranged) and GWM+PM (Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian/etc..)? I know I'm not 100% completely optimizing due to probably not taking the gold standard best spell choices every single level every single time, but as far as being the best at my niche that's what I am shooting for. The most optimized version of "Cold/Dark themed spell melee Warlock that hits things with a "Scythe" (Glaive)"

[Laserlight]

If you do Darkness / Devil's Sight shenanigans, bear in mind (no, not "your party won't be able to attack anything and will hate you" because if you maneuver intelligently, you can usually get around that. You don't provoke OAs because they have to be able to see you, so if you have room you can just run in, swing, and run out) that you burn one of your two slots, and your first action, in every fight when you cast Darkness instead of attacking. If your DM lets you see when you're coming up on a fight, you can precast and solve the "My DPR for turn 1 is...let me work it out here, nuthin', times nuthin', carry the nuthin..." but not all DMs are like that.

[Matrix_Walker]

All this talk about treating a scythe at a glaive is appalling. You might as well say you're fighting with a rubber duck, but using the stats for a whip...

I take it back... next time I hear this in a real game, that's what I'll do.



Now, where is my duckie...

[Ravinsild]

If you do Darkness / Devil's Sight shenanigans, bear in mind (no, not "your party won't be able to attack anything and will hate you" because if you maneuver intelligently, you can usually get around that. You don't provoke OAs because they have to be able to see you, so if you have room you can just run in, swing, and run out) that you burn one of your two slots, and your first action, in every fight when you cast Darkness instead of attacking. If your DM lets you see when you're coming up on a fight, you can precast and solve the "My DPR for turn 1 is...let me work it out here, nuthin', times nuthin', carry the nuthin..." but not all DMs are like that.

That's my concern with running pure Warlock. At maximum they get an amazing 4 spell slots. Yes, they do refresh on short rest. Yes short rests may be often. However that's 4 entire spells until the next short rest which really gets in the way of liberally using magic. Especially a spell I basically want to use every single combat for added damage like Hex. Not to mention I'll get to use maybe, MAYBE, 1 teleport type spell such as blink once per short rest essentially.

That's why I was thinking of going Sorcerer just for more spell slots to cast more often. Granted they know "limited spells" but that's not a problem for my niche vision of a character.

[Ravinsild]

All this talk about treating a scythe at a glaive is appalling. You might as well say you're fighting with a rubber duck, but using the stats for a whip...

I take it back... next time I hear this in a real game, that's what I'll do.



Now, where is my duckie...

I'm aware of what a glaive is, as I am also aware of what a scythe is. However the PHB, nor any other supplement I know of, has official stats for a Scythe. Therefore it's the closest analogue. Just take the blade off the tip of the pole and put it one the side of the near the tip. Then curve it.

[Sception]

The closest in-game equivalent to what people imagine a battle scythe to be in a fantasy setting isn't a glaive, it's a great axe. Two handed, not reach (because a scythe, while it has a haft, isn't on the end of a 10 foot pole), decent if swingy damage, slashing. For a scythe, great axe is what you want. Sure, you miss out on polearm master, but with elven accuracy and GWF you weren't taking that till level 12 or more anyway, and between curse, maybe hex, and GWM bonus attacks from critting with your triple advantage (on a 19-20 vs. curse target no less), you might not even have all that many bonus actions spare regardless.

That said, if you really want to fight with a halberd or glaive, then in a low realism / high fantasy setting (the only setting where you'd be fighting with a scythe anyway), there's no reason the blade at the end of it couldn't have a scythe-like curve. It wouldn't be a grim reaper style 'scythe' scythe, but still.

[Ravinsild]

The closest in-game equivalent to what people imagine a battle scythe to be in a fantasy setting isn't a glaive, it's a great axe. Two handed, not reach (because a scythe, while it has a haft, isn't on the end of a 10 foot pole), decent if swingy damage, slashing. For a scythe, great axe is what you want. Sure, you miss out on polearm master, but with elven accuracy and GWF you weren't taking that till level 12 or more anyway, and between curse, maybe hex, and GWM bonus attacks from critting with your triple advantage (on a 19-20 vs. curse target no less), you might not even have all that many bonus actions spare regardless.

That said, if you really want to fight with a halberd or glaive, then in a low realism / high fantasy setting (the only setting where you'd be fighting with a scythe anyway), there's no reason the blade at the end of it couldn't have a scythe-like curve. It wouldn't be a grim reaper style 'scythe' scythe, but still.

90% sure battle scythe aren't even real. I saw a Lindybeige video about it. I'm 100% fully aware my character is absurd and pure fairy tale/fantasy. I'm just going for rule of cool. See image below for example.


https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/rg-kayn-reveal/en_US/94dcc05587bfb7cf3b581917f3dd6662df5eb212/assets/img/base-wallpaper.jpg

[Willie the Duck]

All this talk about treating a scythe at a glaive is appalling. You might as well say you're fighting with a rubber duck, but using the stats for a whip...

I take it back... next time I hear this in a real game, that's what I'll do.



Now, where is my duckie...

I'm no one's duck but my wife's, mister. :smallbiggrin:

As to glaive (or axe) being re-imaged as a scythe, we are talking about a game with sickles and tridents on the weapon list, and where people with rapiers fight alongside people in full plate armor (alongside bare chested barbarians) and where people fight with pikes even though they are not in formation. Realism left the building a long time ago. And if it didn't placing the line in the sand regarding acceptable breaks from reality at "yes to tridents and sickles, but no to scythes" is a strange or arbitrary place to draw it.

[Kobard]

My largest problem is that I'm not sure which path stays the most competitive throughout the levels. I know EB spam is like the standard king, and I know that GWM+Polearm Mastery is the king of melee regardless.

So where does Cantrip melee spam compare to EB spam (ranged) and GWM+PM (Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian/etc..)? I know I'm not 100% completely optimizing due to probably not taking the gold standard best spell choices every single level every single time, but as far as being the best at my niche that's what I am shooting for. The most optimized version of "Cold/Dark themed spell melee Warlock that hits things with a "Scythe" (Glaive)"You could just go straight Warlock. Nothing wrong with that. You could pick Armor of Agathys and Hunger of Hadar, which are nice warlock-themed spells but also cold and darkness themed. If your GM permits it, you could also take the drow-variant of Half-Elf, which foregoes their bonus skills in favor of drow racial spells, including Darkness, so you would at least have that option. Also talk to your GM. If you really just want a cold/darkness themed warlock, then your GM may be willing to give you an adjusted spell list that works better for your character without requiring multiclassing.

[Sception]

90% sure battle scythe aren't even real. I saw a Lindybeige video about it. I'm 100% fully aware my character is absurd and pure fairy tale/fantasy. I'm just going for rule of cool. See image below for example.


https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/rg-kayn-reveal/en_US/94dcc05587bfb7cf3b581917f3dd6662df5eb212/assets/img/base-wallpaper.jpg


That picture is exactly the sort of fantasy scythe that should be a great axe, not a glaive or halberd. You're holding it at most a foot or two beneath the weapon head. Four to six feat beneath it, for it to make narrative sense as a reach weapon, and you wouldn't be holding it at all.

This is what I'm talking about (please forgive the ****ty doodles, I'm working with a track pad here):

https://78.media.tumblr.com/5d3e57dfe6af43c5ba0b7577e3f7c422/tumblr_p035luaFvf1rosskwo1_400.png

I'm not saying you couldn't have a scythe blade on a polearm, in a fantasy setting where scythes are acceptable weapons in the first place (honestly the only kind of fantasy setting I'd ever want to play in), just that it'd be a bit different from the traditional reaper style scythe, which really wouldn't have any more reach than a great axe, heavy flail, or maul.

[Ravinsild]

That picture is exactly the sort of fantasy scythe that should be a great axe, not a glaive or halberd. You're holding it at most a foot or two beneath the weapon head. Four to six feat beneath it, for it to make narrative sense as a reach weapon, and you wouldn't be holding it at all.

This is what I'm talking about (please forgive the ****ty doodles, I'm working with a track pad here):

https://78.media.tumblr.com/5d3e57dfe6af43c5ba0b7577e3f7c422/tumblr_p035luaFvf1rosskwo1_400.png

I'm not saying you couldn't have a scythe blade on a polearm, in a fantasy setting where scythes are acceptable weapons in the first place (honestly the only kind of fantasy setting I'd ever want to play in), just that it'd be a bit different from the traditional reaper style scythe, which really wouldn't have any more reach than a great axe, heavy flail, or maul.

Yeah that makes sense. I was going to originally use the Greatsword stats but Great Axe is fine too. Seems like it's basically sorted. Appreciate it :)

[Sception]

upon further inspection, it seems actual scythes are held a fair bit further below the blade than I thought.


https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.lehmans.com/images/thumb/9559_8027_thumb.jpg

http://prolandscapermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/scythe.png


Still don't see it as more reach than a greatsword, though, and definitely not equivalent to a polearm, so I still stand by my general comments though. Plain old Scythe? greate axe. Scythe blade on polearm haft? halberd.

But if you wanted to call it otherwise, it wouldn't be quite as odd as I had been thinking.

[Ravinsild]

upon further inspection, it seems actual scythes are held a fair bit further below the blade than I thought.


https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.lehmans.com/images/thumb/9559_8027_thumb.jpg

http://prolandscapermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/scythe.png


Still don't see it as more reach than a greatsword, though, and definitely not equivalent to a polearm, so I still stand by my general comments though. Plain old Scythe? greate axe. Scythe blade on polearm haft? halberd.

But if you wanted to call it otherwise, it wouldn't be quite as odd as I had been thinking.

I was less concerned about the weapon and more about how to be great at melee and still have several spell slots available for use consistently.

For some reason I was assuming Hex would be up every combat, but then I realized at the low levels your have literally 2 spell slots. So unless every combat ends with a short rest, probably not.

Then I realized I could blink/misty step/thunderous step once per adventuring day basically, so chasing runners or getting into the backline versus deadly casters wouldn't happen as often as I thought.

Turns out it would mostly be a regular fighter that walks up to people and hits them and sometimes casts hex maybe only on boss fights and sometimes teleports maybe once a day or something for a very serious threat but it wouldn't be as "common' as I imagined.

[Sception]

A warlock's common magic, especially at low levels, comes from their cantrips and invocations, with spell slots as more of special cases thing. And since you've got a few invocation taxes, for you, that mostly means green flame blade / booming blade, so you'll be walking up to your enemies like a fighter, but wreathing your weapon in colorful magical death before hitting them with it. hex and short range teleports aren't so much your deal, but dropping darkness and issuing a curse against tough fights will be a thing you do semi-regularly.

If you want more magic in the sense of spell use then that, you may want to consider multiclassing into maybe paladin, or maybe sorcerer, or maybe both. Hex 3-6 / paladin 14-17, or Hex 3 / sorcerer 17, or hex 1 / pal 2 / sorcerer 17, or hex 1 / pal 6-7 / sorcerer 12-13 - going sword & board instead of GWM if you take less than three levels of warlock, or take pact of book or chain instead of blade. Regardless, you'll have a handful of lower level daily spells for shield and fey step and the like to feel more magical with, plus one or more short rest slots so you've got some magic to fall back on when the days are long.

While the stat mods are /significantly/ worse than a half elf, you could also run a shadar-kai from the recent unearthed arcana for an extra teleport, especially in a die roll instead of point buy game, while still being able to take elven accuracy. It's a lot less strong if you aren't starting with that 17 cha, but it's still a decent option. And the fluff is strong, since the kai are the raven queen's people, and hexblades supposedly draw power indirectly from her & serve her interests.

[Ravinsild]

A warlock's common magic, especially at low levels, comes from their cantrips and invocations, with spell slots as more of special cases thing. And since you've got a few invocation taxes, for you, that mostly means green flame blade / booming blade, so you'll be walking up to your enemies like a fighter, but wreathing your weapon in colorful magical death before hitting them with it. hex and short range teleports aren't so much your deal, but dropping darkness and issuing a curse against tough fights will be a thing you do semi-regularly.

If you want more magic in the sense of spell use then that, you may want to consider multiclassing into maybe paladin, or maybe sorcerer, or maybe both. Hex 3-6 / paladin 14-17, or Hex 3 / sorcerer 17, or hex 1 / pal 2 / sorcerer 17, or hex 1 / pal 6-7 / sorcerer 12-13 - going sword & board instead of GWM if you take less than three levels of warlock, or take pact of book or chain instead of blade. Regardless, you'll have a handful of lower level daily spells for shield and fey step and the like to feel more magical with, plus one or more short rest slots so you've got some magic to fall back on when the days are long.

While the stat mods are /significantly/ worse than a half elf, you could also run a shadar-kai from the recent unearthed arcana for an extra teleport, especially in a die roll instead of point buy game, while still being able to take elven accuracy. It's a lot less strong if you aren't starting with that 17 cha, but it's still a decent option. And the fluff is strong, since the kai are the raven queen's people, and hexblades supposedly draw power indirectly from her & serve her interests.

Yes I'm ultimately thinking I'll be Hexblade 5 for the Extra Attack Invocation then 15 Shadow Origin Sorcerer. I would have 3 Invocations, 1 of which is definitely for sure Thirsting Blade. My pact weapon would be a Great Axe (Scythe). Aside from that I'm not sure about which the other 2 would be. I don't exactly need Devil's Sight thanks to the Shadow Sorcerer Perk at level 3 (Character level 8 I'm sure).

I would have 6 Warlock spells and 3 Warlock Cantrips known. I would cast my Warlock spells at 3rd level with 2 Spells Slots to work with. Everything else would be standard Sorcerer stuff so I think that's the best way to do it.

[Matrix_Walker]

I'm aware of what a glaive is, as I am also aware of what a scythe is. However the PHB, nor any other supplement I know of, has official stats for a Scythe. Therefore it's the closest analogue. Just take the blade off the tip of the pole and put it one the side of the near the tip. Then curve it.

There are no stats for it because it is a flimsy farm implement and not a weapon at all. If you wanted to set stats for it, it would likely be 1d3 one handed and a d4 two-handed, with a high probability of breaking in a hit.


I'm no one's duck but my wife's, mister. :smallbiggrin:

As to glaive (or axe) being re-imaged as a scythe, we are talking about a game with sickles and tridents on the weapon list, and where people with rapiers fight alongside people in full plate armor (alongside bare chested barbarians) and where people fight with pikes even though they are not in formation. Realism left the building a long time ago. And if it didn't placing the line in the sand regarding acceptable breaks from reality at "yes to tridents and sickles, but no to scythes" is a strange or arbitrary place to draw it.

Well, in defense of tridents and sickles, they are weapons.

I have no objection with bringing into the fold by making them marginally better and perform as well as a weapon (say a d6), but to treat it as the best of heavy two handed weapons is serious overkill.

[Ravinsild]

There are no stats for it because it is a flimsy farm implement and not a weapon at all. If you wanted to set stats for it, it would likely be 1d3 one handed and a d4 two-handed, with a high probability of breaking in a hit.

Very selective reading you have. You have contributed absolutely nothing to my thread about building a good hexblade character. Instead you have nitpicked about my choice in weapon even though I fully admit, in multiple posts, that I'm 100% aware that a "battle scythe" doesn't exist and that I'm just going for rule of cool.

[Matrix_Walker]

Very selective reading you have. You have contributed absolutely nothing to my thread about building a good hexblade character. Instead you have nitpicked about my choice in weapon even though I fully admit, in multiple posts, that I'm 100% aware that a "battle scythe" doesn't exist and that I'm just going for rule of cool.

I'm sorry.

I would say it is normally a two handed improvised weapon that does 1d4 damage slashing damage. Despite it's size, it's orientation would not make it an effective weapon at reach.

At my table I would allow a rule of cool bonus to up that to a d6, and I would allow the character to add their proficiency bonus to their attack rolls.

[Willie the Duck]

There are no stats for it because it is a flimsy farm implement and not a weapon at all. If you wanted to set stats for it, it would likely be 1d3 one handed and a d4 two-handed, with a high probability of breaking in a hit.

Well, in defense of tridents and sickles, they are weapons.

Well, no, they aren't. Not really. They are fishing and farming implements which were used as weapons in 1) gladiatorial fighting, where it was their ability to look dangerous without ending a fight quickly was the point (and by comparison, if they are weapons, then so are folding chairs based on the WWE), and 2) Okinawan martial arts based around the idea of using non-weapons as weapons. Other than it at least seeming obvious how one would wield a sickle or trident in combat and the same not being true for scythes, there's no real functional distinction that fits the first two into one category and the later into a different one. They are all fishing/farming implements that get lumped into a weapons chart based on rule-of-cool or because there's an iconic character one might want to build (be it a druid, Poseidon, or the Grim Reaper).

[Matrix_Walker]

Well, no, they aren't. Not really. They are fishing and farming implements which were used as weapons in 1) gladiatorial fighting, where it was their ability to look dangerous without ending a fight quickly was the point (and by comparison, if they are weapons, then so are folding chairs based on the WWE), and 2) Okinawan martial arts based around the idea of using non-weapons as weapons. Other than it at least seeming obvious how one would wield a sickle or trident in combat and the same not being true for scythes, there's no real functional distinction that fits the first two into one category and the later into a different one. They are all fishing/farming implements that get lumped into a weapons chart based on rule-of-cool or because there's an iconic character one might want to build (be it a druid, Poseidon, or the Grim Reaper).

At the risk of further annoying the OP...

Sickles have been made as both implements and weapons, and made specifically as weapons as well as integrated into other weapons. While being somewhat curved, they are effective at close range.
A trident is essentially a spear with extra points, it might have been primarily used to stab fish, but it is a weapon designed to peirce flesh, essentially a multiprong spear.

These things are not true for a reaper's scythe. The blade was never meant for flsh, only wheat, and it's orientation means that to hit someone with the blade, you must swing around past them, and hook them back. It has never been adapted as a weapon because it is completely impractical, requiring a great deal of space, a great deal of extra phycial action to attack with it.


I won't pursue this further in this thread. If you want to argue this further, we can start another thread.

[Kobard]

At the risk of further annoying the OP...Who the hell cares? It's fantasy, and it's not your table. Be helpful or keep a lid on it.

[Ravinsild]

At the risk of further annoying the OP...

Sickles have been made as both implements and weapons, and made specifically as weapons as well as integrated into other weapons. While being somewhat curved, they are effective at close range.
A trident is essentially a spear with extra points, it might have been primarily used to stab fish, but it is a weapon designed to peirce flesh, essentially a multiprong spear.

These things are not true for a reaper's scythe. The blade was never meant for flsh, only wheat, and it's orientation means that to hit someone with the blade, you must swing around past them, and hook them back. It has never been adapted as a weapon because it is completely impractical, requiring a great deal of space, a great deal of extra phycial action to attack with it.


I won't pursue this further in this thread. If you want to argue this further, we can start another thread.

Meanwhile every single post you have made in my thread has not:
- Helped informed me which race is optimal for Hexblade or Sorcerer
- Helped inform me of whether Hexblade pure, or Hexblade/Sorcerer multiclass is best for this concept
- Helped inform me which split is best Hexblade 3/17 Sorcerer, Hexblade 5/Sorcerer 15 etc..
- Helped inform me which invocations are the most relevant and impactful
- Which spells are the most useful with my limited spell slots as a Warlock or if I am Sorcerer which spells to use most commonly
- Helped inform me of...anything useful at all really.

Luckily other people have so now I know Hexblade 5/Sorcerer 15 will be a great melee combatant at the cost of more powerful spells - but I am only using the spells for mobility and disabling instead of trying to be a real spellcaster because the star of the show is my melee capabilities which should be great and equal to other melee weapon strikers. In addition to the fact that Half-Elf Drow Variant is an amazing racial choice, etc..

[Matrix_Walker]

I'm sorry.

I would say it is normally a two handed improvised weapon that does 1d4 damage slashing damage. Despite it's size, it's orientation would not make it an effective weapon at reach.

At my table I would allow a rule of cool bonus to up that to a d6, and I would allow the character to add their proficiency bonus to their attack rolls.

I did try and supply you with stats as you requested.

This is a discussion board, and I replied to other replies regarding the subject.

I'm sorry you did not find my posts helpful, but it is an open discussion. If someone quotes me and replies, I am likely to reply in kind.

[samcifer]

I was less concerned about the weapon and more about how to be great at melee and still have several spell slots available for use consistently.

For some reason I was assuming Hex would be up every combat, but then I realized at the low levels your have literally 2 spell slots. So unless every combat ends with a short rest, probably not.

Then I realized I could blink/misty step/thunderous step once per adventuring day basically, so chasing runners or getting into the backline versus deadly casters wouldn't happen as often as I thought.

Turns out it would mostly be a regular fighter that walks up to people and hits them and sometimes casts hex maybe only on boss fights and sometimes teleports maybe once a day or something for a very serious threat but it wouldn't be as "common' as I imagined.

Found this on youtube: :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djQh-7b0Fn8

[Ravinsild]

Found this on youtube: :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djQh-7b0Fn8

Sweet! At first I thought the link was a guide to making a great Hexblade lmao. Still entertaining though.

[Phoenix042]

Does this game have stats for a Scythe for a weapon? If not I'll just use Greatsword stats and say it looks like a Scythe. PS I know "War Scythes" and Scythes aren't real weapons. They're farming tools, etc. Well I want a rule of cool character so w/e.

Treating unlisted weapons as similar listed weapons is actually RAW in 5th, thought still a dm call. I have a player who is using a scythe and using great sword stats. It's a really cool concept. He happens to be a melee caster gish, though for him it's a sorcadin build.

His scythe is magic, and it refunds him health when he casts damaging spells, and sorcery points when he crits with it.

Harvest-themed powers are very at home on a scythe.

[Sception]

I'm playing in a game where a player is using a crazy long sephiroth style nonsense katana as a glaive, and it's great. Using existing mechanics to represent over-the-top concepts is a lot of fun, imo, so long as the whole party & DM on the same page.

[Vogie]

I like it... I've thought of using the Tiefling Variant from Sword coast to make Hexblade Aatrox, myself.

If not MCing into a martial class (Warlock/Sorc, for example), I would make sure you have at least 5 levels of warlock for Thirsting blade for second attack. Going another level into Hexblade allow for the Accursed Specter class feature is also really awesome, almost giving you a third attack.

If you do go EB as a cantrip, I'd suggest Grasp of Hadar for battlefield control, as well as a nice little "GET OVER HERE" move.

[Willywilliamrtx]

I feel like a lot of people are missing out on the Cha-based goth build Oathbreaker/Hexblade (8 Oath/12Hex).

You get fear effects, Heavy armor proficiency, Extra attack, +Cha to melee attacks and some neat spells from Oathbreaker.
You get +Cha to melee attacks(hexblade), bonding with blade pact weapons, +Cha to melee attacks(lifedrinker), +Prof to melee attacks(hex curse) and no damage cap smites from hex.
You can add GWM to this to get a damage modifier up to +25 (+31 for curse target). This does not include any form of magical weaponry (+1 to these numbers if you take Improved Pact Weapon but it's very mehhh in all honesty)

Sure, the build is far from optimal - but you get to raise some undead minions that are fueled by your own aura, you can use cha to hit for basically any melee weapon you create and get a 3* cha damage modifier on your attacks, along with a proficiency modifier against your curse target. In comparison a SorHex will smite more often - thus do more damage, but who doesn't love being a PAM GWM emo manbaby with three +25 damage swings every round? You still get 5 feats(PAM,GWM,3 open options), can leave STR at 13 to still have medium armor.


Make way Reaper, Van Hellsing, Kirito, Dante and Percival Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III.....a new Edgelord has appeared.

[Ignimortis]

I feel like a lot of people are missing out on the Cha-based goth build Oathbreaker/Hexblade (8 Oath/12Hex).

You get fear effects, Heavy armor proficiency, Extra attack, +Cha to melee attacks and some neat spells from Oathbreaker.
You get +Cha to melee attacks(hexblade), bonding with blade pact weapons, +Cha to melee attacks(lifedrinker), +Prof to melee attacks(hex curse) and no damage cap smites from hex.
You can add GWM to this to get a damage modifier up to +25 (+31 for curse target). This does not include any form of magical weaponry (+1 to these numbers if you take Improved Pact Weapon but it's very mehhh in all honesty)

Sure, the build is far from optimal - but you get to raise some undead minions that are fueled by your own aura, you can use cha to hit for basically any melee weapon you create and get a 3* cha damage modifier on your attacks, along with a proficiency modifier against your curse target. In comparison a SorHex will smite more often - thus do more damage, but who doesn't love being a PAM GWM emo manbaby with three +25 damage swings every round? You still get 5 feats(PAM,GWM,3 open options), can leave STR at 13 to still have medium armor.


Make way Reaper, Van Helsing, Kirito, Dante and Percival Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III.....a new Edgelord has appeared.

If the undead mess up your style, just go with the Oath of Conquest. You still get fear and Channel Divinity to auto-hit is nice!
P.S. OG Dante isn't an edgelord at any point in the series, aside from maybe 2. Not sure which iteration of Van Helsing was, either - the Hugh Jackman one?

[IsasmusB.Dragon]

We've been discussing in the ranged warlock thread.

TL;DR: Triple advantage half-elf (maybe drow for extra darkness) with GWM and PAM. Could also go for Oathbreaker 8/Hexblade 12 for aura of pain.

I was wondering how to convince my DM to allow a Hexblade/Paladin MC. The problem he presented me is how does the character exist with 2 patrons (Sentient Weapon versus god or goddess)?
I'm thinking of offering the Sentient Weapon as the soul of a lauded cleric of the Paladin's god, embedded into a holy weapon to act as an advisor/aide to the abbess of the god's largest church in the region.

[Matrix_Walker]

I was wondering how to convince my DM to allow a Hexblade/Paladin MC. The problem he presented me is how does the character exist with 2 patrons (Sentient Weapon versus god or goddess)?
I'm thinking of offering the Sentient Weapon as the soul of a lauded cleric of the Paladin's god, embedded into a holy weapon to act as an advisor/aide to the abbess of the god's largest church in the region.

You can remind him that paladins in 5e don't answer to the gods, just thier oath's, that none of the oaths prevent making bargains, and that hexblades are not inherently evil (just kinda shady ;p )

[UnderwaterAir]

I was dreaming up something like a 5 Sorcerer\15 Hexblade.

I would take Polearm Master feat with CON Resilient.
Pump CHA to 20.

Then basically just haste and melee my way through battles. So unoptimal compared to just Eldritch Blasting with Agonizing Blast but that would also be an option once I'm hasted. Sorc points to keep me going if need be. Even do something like attack and then attack again while quickening out Eldritch Blast if I want to take Warcaster also. It'd also be possible to get even more armor class if you want to dip one into Fighter or Paladin or whatever. Though this would make you a bit more MAD as you fought to get STR for heavy armors. The feats needed would already be sapping your ASIs.

You could also dual wield with Life Drinker and Dual Weapon instead. Haste should give you 5 attacks per turn that way also though it'd just be optimal with polarms. Unless you wanted the flare of dual wielding.

Whatever the case, level 14 Hexblade is really strong. It's hard to mess it up as noted. And the easiest way to empower it in my opinion is with Haste. The easiest way for that is with Sorcerer for Metamagic quicken spell. Or even consider 2 minute Haste. Or even twinning it onto an ally Rogue also.

[Ignimortis]

I was dreaming up something like a 5 Sorcerer\15 Hexblade.

I would take Polearm Master feat with CON Resilient.
Pump CHA to 20.

Then basically just haste and melee my way through battles. So unoptimal compared to just Eldritch Blasting with Agonizing Blast but that would also be an option once I'm hasted. Sorc points to keep me going if need be. Even do something like attack and then attack again while quickening out Eldritch Blast if I want to take Warcaster also. It'd also be possible to get even more armor class if you want to dip one into Fighter or Paladin or whatever. Though this would make you a bit more MAD as you fought to get STR for heavy armors. The feats needed would already be sapping your ASIs.

You could also dual wield with Life Drinker and Dual Weapon instead. Haste should give you 5 attacks per turn that way also though it'd just be optimal with polarms. Unless you wanted the flare of dual wielding.

Whatever the case, level 14 Hexblade is really strong. It's hard to mess it up as noted. And the easiest way to empower it in my opinion is with Haste. The easiest way for that is with Sorcerer for Metamagic quicken spell. Or even consider 2 minute Haste. Or even twinning it onto an ally Rogue also.

Why not start with Sorc 1 for free Resilient (CON)? They get CON+CHA saves, and you can pick up Resilient (WIS) if you find that Wisdom saves are becoming a problem.

[Malifice]

An alternate take on this, would it be worth it to go Hexblade Warlock Pact Blade 3, then the rest Shadow Sorcerer for a dark caster theme? Would it tank my melee ability? I'd like more spells than like 4 spell slots total for mobility/etc..

Or Hexblade 5 for the extra attack for maximum melee potential then Shadow Sorc 15 for lots of spells so I can keep doing misty step or blink or whatever is needed plus the cool damage spells.

This is exactly what I am doing in my current campaign.

Im a Shadowvar (Half elf but I fluff my dark vision and other abilities as shadowvar abilities) refugee from Thulanthar (the city of Shade).

Going by the recent fluff, Elminster crashed the City of Shade into Myth Drannor, wrecking both cities. Sembia is no longer a vassal state either.

After the cataclysm my character turn his back on Shar, and now worships the Raven Queen (seeking to establish her worship on Faerun). As she is not a deity of the realms I can only get favours from her via my warlock pact.

Matches the Hexblade fluff of the Raven Queen using Hex blades as her agents to work towards her ends.

The fluff is perfect. The shadowfell extends across multiple material planes (being a transitive plane).

I have fluffed my PC as High Prince Telamonts illegitimate child (to an Elven woman). He was born in the Shadowfell, return to the prime material when the city of Shade did, and survive the city's downfall on account of being posted to Sebia. He is committed to re-establishing Netherils ancient glory.

My weapon is a great sword. I call it Mournbringer.

Total Elric rip-off.

[Dr. Cliché]

Regarding the whole scythe thing, I imagine you could (at the very least) make a weapon made with Pact of the Blade appear as a scythe.

[Arkhios]

Regarding the whole scythe thing, I imagine you could (at the very least) make a weapon made with Pact of the Blade appear as a scythe.

Glaive is pretty close to Scythe, imho. At least I would allow refluffing Glaive as Scythe.

[Dr. Cliché]

Glaive is pretty close to Scythe, imho.

A Greataxe would work as well, I think. Halberds are a little long, but since the scythe-aspect is basically decorational anyway, i can't see it mattering much.

[Arkhios]

A Greataxe would work as well, I think. Halberds are a little long, but since the scythe-aspect is basically decorational anyway, i can't see it mattering much.

Hmm, true. 3.5 scythe didn't have reach, and did have pretty hefty damage potential with crits, so 1d12 might be even better, indeed.

[BrusLi]

I would definitely take PAM, though personally I’d seriously consider it a bit later. I’d use a two handed reach polearm.

I presume by shield cheese you mean quarterstaff and shield? If so then no. Quite apart from the absurdity of it, reach is pretty good.

Running Darkness with medium armor makes you quite hard to hit, even without a shield.

When you said later what did you mean by it?
Maxing CHA on 12th and take PAM afterwards, or taking PAM first and then maxing CHA for your 4th ASI? @_@

[prototype00]

When you said later what did you mean by it?
Maxing CHA on 12th and take PAM afterwards, or taking PAM first and then maxing CHA for your 4th ASI? @_@

If you're playing from low level, that extra attack from PAM (vHuman Hexblade so I took it 1st lvl) really ups your damage/per round.

I played quarterstaff/Shield/PAM until 4th level when I took GWM (and switched to glaive/darkness/devil's sight)

prototype00

[Blood of Gaea]

On the note of a Hexblade Warlock/Shadow Sorcerer multiclass, I would like the point out the potential of 17Warlock/3Sorcerer.

You keep your 9th level spell (Foresight!), all of your Warlock spell slots, and only lose one ASI, one spell known, and one invocation.

You gain:

Four first level and two second level spell slots (can be converted to 8 Sorcerer points).
Four Sorcerer spells known.
120ft Darkvision (complements Devil's Sight).
Darkness as a spell known (and castable with points), you can see through your own spell without needing Devil's Sight.
Strength of the Grave.
Metamagic with 3 Sorcerer points, sacrifice leftover spell slots during a short rest to top off (up to 5 points per slot).



I would say that that's a pretty ideal tradeoff.

[Jethro]

On the note of a Hexblade Warlock/Shadow Sorcerer multiclass, I would like the point out the potential of 17Warlock/3Sorcerer.

You keep your 9th level spell (Foresight!), all of your Warlock spell slots, and only lose one ASI, one spell known, and one invocation.

You gain:

Four first level and two second level spell slots (can be converted to 8 Sorcerer points).
Four Sorcerer spells known.
120ft Darkvision (complements Devil's Sight).
Darkness as a spell known (and castable with points), you can see through your own spell without needing Devil's Sight.
Strength of the Grave.
Metamagic with 3 Sorcerer points, sacrifice leftover spell slots during a short rest to top off (up to 5 points per slot).



I would say that that's a pretty ideal tradeoff.

I'm currently playing this exact build. Only 1 shadow sorcerer/ 7 hexblade so far, but it's BOSS! Shadow of Moil is everything you want. Combined with Armor of Agathys and you deal nearly more damage being hit than hitting.

A couple great things about hexblade I've noticed so far:

1. low level spell slots are VERY useful, if situational. Absorb Elements and Shield are lifesavers when in the thick of it, but you never want to blow a 3rd/4th/5th level slot on them. Sorcerer helps immensly with that. Also Mirror Image and Invisiblity and Misty Step are great 2nd level spells.

2. Armor of Agathys is a really great spell in conjunction with everything else. The temp HP stays till a long rest...should be first casting of the day. Dealing 15/20/25 damage when avoiding damage is pretty sweet.

3. Shadow of Moil should be your spell goal. Especially if you want to do the darkness cheese...it's strictly better. Not as utilitarian, but for melee combat I don't think it gets much better.

4. PAM is great, GWM is great, Sentinel is great, but NONE of them are necessary. Still, I'd pick at least one of them.

5. If you can get it, a ring of spell storing is great, even if just filled with shields and absorb elements. you have great low level spells, but no slots to cast them with...again, Sorcerer.

6. There's 4 invocations you HAVE to take: thirsting blade, improved pact weapon, agonizing blast, and tomb of levistus. The last one there is a great in-case-of-emergency-button. Improved pact weapon lets you use your weapon as a focus (also magical damage).

7. The great thing about the hexblade is not the damage, but the myriad ways to mitigate and avoid damage: Armor of Agathys, Hexblade Curse temp HP, Mirror Image, Blur, Blink, Darkness, Shadow of Moil, Shield, Armor of Hexes, Tomb of Levistus. Adding in Sorcerer unlocks some of those that close up as you level up (Shield, Mirror Image, Blur...Absorb Elements) which can add a lot to versatility and free up your spell slots for utility casting as well.

About any build: What ever you have most in will be what the build feels like. Mostly sorcerer and you'll be a caster with melee attacks that are pretty darn good. Mostly Paladin and you'll be an edgy Pally.

It's a super fun class. Good luck!

[BrusLi]

If you're playing from low level, that extra attack from PAM (vHuman Hexblade so I took it 1st lvl) really ups your damage/per round.

I played quarterstaff/Shield/PAM until 4th level when I took GWM (and switched to glaive/darkness/devil's sight)

prototype00

Actually starting from 6th and going Elven Accuracy route
4 lvl EA
8 lv lGWM
12 lvl 20 CHA or PAM < this is the problem @_@
which one is the best