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Conners
2007-08-19, 10:35 AM
Drow are listed as 1st level warriors. But in the accounts of Homeland (the first book of the Darkelf Trilogy), they seemed a lot stronger.... Also, the numerous powerful beasts in the underdark leads me to think that the drow would have to be a lot tougher than 1st level.

Are drow too weak, or am I only imagining it?

lord_khaine
2007-08-19, 10:37 AM
well what makes drow strong isnt their race, but that they live in a very dangerous place, that gives the strong drow plenty of opportunity to get xp and lv up.

Kultrum
2007-08-19, 10:38 AM
the drow described in homeland have class levels and such the ones in the MM are the most basic drow. If you want strong drow level them up and equip them like a PC.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-08-19, 12:17 PM
I think Drow also have an ECL, though I'm not sure.

kamikasei
2007-08-19, 03:11 PM
I think Drow also have an ECL, though I'm not sure.

Yup, that 1st-level Warrior drow has an ECL of 3. They have a +2 LA due to a bucketload of handy abilities that make them tougher. Note that here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#drow) a drow has a higher CR than an ordinary elf with the same class levels.

Falrin
2007-08-19, 03:26 PM
Important DM note: If you want scary drow, they all should at least have 3 class Levels.

Goblins can get by with warrior, swarming and ambushing the PC's. But you want your Drow to be the tough, scary underdark species they should be so get them some LvLs. You don't make a first LvL sorceror Lich, you don't have Warrior drows. You should see the warriors as the commoner in drow society.

horseboy
2007-08-19, 04:29 PM
Also, Homelands was written in Second Edition by an author who's not that interested in game mechanics.

MrNexx
2007-08-19, 04:44 PM
Also, Homelands was written in Second Edition by an author who's not that interested in game mechanics.

A friend of mine went to a Con where R.A. Salvatore was appearing, and according to him, Bob intentionally breaks the rules at least once a book, just so people can't point to his books as "the way things should be."

Amiria
2007-08-19, 05:00 PM
The +2 LA for Drow is serioulsy too much. Especially with all this splatbooks out that have spells which ignore spell resistance. And even without them, spell resistance is a double-edged sword. No spontaneous buffing in the middle of a fight for the Drow clerics and wizards. I.e. Prayer and Haste spells have a good chance to bounce off from your Drow allies.

Jimmy Discordia
2007-08-19, 05:54 PM
The +2 LA for Drow is serioulsy too much. Especially with all this splatbooks out that have spells which ignore spell resistance. And even without them, spell resistance is a double-edged sword. No spontaneous buffing in the middle of a fight for the Drow clerics and wizards. I.e. Prayer and Haste spells have a good chance to bounce off from your Drow allies.

From the SRD:


A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

Okay, so it's a hassle to constantly be raising and lowering spell resistance, but you can do it if you want to. I'd house-rule that raising/lowering your spell resistance is a free action; hopefully this will be RAW in the new edition, because blowing two consecutive standard actions to receive a buff does make it kind of hard to buff in the middle of combat.

Or was this what you meant in the first place, that it's too much of a pain to do it in combat?

Amiria
2007-08-19, 06:36 PM
Or was this what you meant in the first place, that it's too much of a pain to do it in combat?

Yes, that's what I meant. When my RL group plays Drow we also usually houserule that harmless/beneficial spell always overcome SR, but the RAW really put a downside to SR.

Jimmy Discordia
2007-08-19, 07:21 PM
Yes, that's what I meant. When my RL group plays Drow we also usually houserule that harmless/beneficial spell always overcome SR, but the RAW really put a downside to SR.

That makes sense, then. The house rule I go with is that lowering SR is like voluntarily failing a save; if a spell is targeting you, you can forgo SR if you want to. This is basically the same as your rule, except that you could voluntarily lower it for a harmful spell as well, if for some reason you wanted to.

the_tick_rules
2007-08-19, 07:52 PM
even drow can get depressed and want out lol.

Hyrael
2007-08-19, 08:59 PM
because Homelands took place in Forgotten REalms, and in forgotten realms, only little children are level 1. aside from that, every single person on Faerun seems to be at least 10th level, and anyone of any significance is near, at, or above 20th level.

Conners
2007-08-19, 11:38 PM
because Homelands took place in Forgotten REalms, and in forgotten realms, only little children are level 1. aside from that, every single person on Faerun seems to be at least 10th level, and anyone of any significance is near, at, or above 20th level. Wow :smalleek: . So a level isn't worth as much, or everyone worth noting is epic?

Ranis
2007-08-19, 11:45 PM
Wow :smalleek: . So a level isn't worth as much, or everyone worth noting is epic?

Elminster is about level 30 or so. But yes, Forgotten Realms tends to be a bit higher in NPC power than in your typical campaign setting.

doliemaster
2007-08-19, 11:50 PM
I always thought the drow empire had to be pretty strong since they are constantly dealing with the mind flayers being in the same area as them.....but I might just overestimate how powerful a mindflayer army would be.

Stormcrow
2007-08-19, 11:50 PM
I'm pretty sure the drow favour spartan style strength based purging of the populous at large actually. If you stay at level one for more than about five minutes someone is _going_ to kill you. :P

I made a joke once that in the underdark you are _born_ at level ten.

Serenity
2007-08-20, 09:33 AM
Kind of like how in Dark Sun, you simply don't create first level characters, but always start at about level three?

dyslexicfaser
2007-08-20, 12:01 PM
Probably because at any given time, drow are fighting and killing someone: duergar, svirfneblin (deep gnomes), surface elves, mind flayers, their own slave uprisings, those sentient mushroom people, vicious underdark beasties up to and including deep dragons, other drow cities, themselves, etc.

Drow are a bit like ninja: they flip out and kill people all the time.

Matthew
2007-08-21, 01:12 PM
Wow :smalleek: . So a level isn't worth as much, or everyone worth noting is epic?

More importantly, those books were originally published with the AD&D Rule set in mind where Drow really were pretty bad ass.

MrNexx
2007-08-21, 02:01 PM
More importantly, those books were originally published with the AD&D Rule set in mind where Drow really were pretty bad ass.

Unless they went into sunlight for a day or two. Then they sucked.

Matthew
2007-08-21, 02:09 PM
Heh, true of course.