Diplomacy bard

[eyeman927]

So I found a spell in ghostwalk that is 0 level and says one willing target dies so I wanted to build a diplomacy bard that walks up to you convinces you that you wanna die or youre willing for the spell and use a 0 level spell to kill them I think it would be hilarious to put my pcs against this villan at some point any pointers would be great thanks guys

[noob]

You would need to turn the target fanatic.
That usually require something close to 150 diplomacy to do it automatically.(which you can reach quickly with a build for that do not forget that you can take a dip in marshal to double your charisma bonus and be an half elf and then you keep stacking bonuses)
With bind naberius you can make it quickly without penalty(check tome of magic for bind vestige)
Do not forget that by raw diplomacy does not works on players.
However you no longer need to kill the target if it is fanatic for your cause: he will obey to all your orders.
With bard you can pick up hypnosis, modify memory and dominate person and then use those three spells for making the target fanatic of your cause(give them a bunch of arrows of an alignment opposed to them so that they get negative levels thus making them valid targets for hypnosis) then they will obey you forever without you needing to mind control them anymore.
You can also use necrotic tumor domination

[Goaty14]

I feel the need to post this: Fred The Diplomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9714575&postcount=5)

[Doctor Despair]

I feel the need to post this: Fred The Diplomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9714575&postcount=5)

Seems really, really poor not to take Binder in a diplomancer build.

[noob]

Binder is cool due to naberius.
But you can get naberius without binder if you have enough feats.

[Doctor Despair]

Well yes, but if your plan is to bring this online as soon as possible (especially since this is a level 0 spell), it's probably fastest to use the class level I would think.

[Zaq]

Sorry if I’m spoiling the joke, but if you can get someone to a level of devotion where they will “willingly” (such as it is) die for you, isn’t it far more profitable to use them as allies and/or minions rather than to simply kill them just because Painless Death is a stupidly designed spell?

Also, if you really want to troll with Painless Death, make it into potions and use Magic Aura to make it look like another kind of potion. But that’s trolling and shouldn’t be done in a serious game.

[Calthropstu]

If diplomacy is barred, I reccomend putting points into other social skills.

[kulosle]

First what is the name of this spell. Sounds fascinating. Second there is a prestige class in the fiend folio that makes you very persuasive. I don't remember what it is call fiend of corruption or something like that. But I like the idea of going the altered memory path. Just a normal guy in the town who's actually the big bad is trying to get them to give up on life one altered memory at a time. maybe a few well placed bluff and diplomacy checks. Also if you have an insane bluff check you can make a non magical suggestion.

EDIT: I think it's more fun to convince someone they want to die. not make them a fanatic. there is a system called dungeons the dragoning that actually has a really cool system for social combat. you have a resolve score you have to get down to 0. its really fun and conversational.

[Jay R]

So I found a spell in ghostwalk that is 0 level and says one willing target dies so I wanted to build a diplomacy bard that walks up to you convinces you that you wanna die or youre willing for the spell and use a 0 level spell to kill them I think it would be hilarious to put my pcs against this villan at some point any pointers would be great thanks guys

Don't forget this one crucial principle:

Your job isn't to create something hilarious to you. Your job is to create something fun and challenging for the players.

[DarkSoul]

Players are immune to diplomacy anyway. Dominate them if you want to force something on them against their will.

[EisenKreutzer]

Sounds like something a Dustman from Planescape would do.

[ericgrau]

I think it would be hilarious to put my pcs against this villan at some point
I think your players should walk away from the table and play something better.

For the willing part of the spell, you shouldn't do this nor most convincing via a diplomacy check. Not a check by itself anyway. The reason is because diplomacy is diplomacy, not mind control, and sometimes it doesn't matter how silver the tongue is. So it's both breaking the rules and ruins all fun in the game with the excessive crazy. I've heard such things called RAW, but overly literal and selective out of context readings of the rules aren't RAW. They're just silly word games.


Don't forget this one crucial principle:

Your job isn't to create something hilarious to you. Your job is to create something fun and challenging for the players.
And there's this for everything else.

[eyeman927]

I mean lets all remember guys they may be immune to it and it may not be nice to aim to kill them so easily and that they "should walk away" but players die it happens and I'm also running a house rule of players have to role opposing checks to diplomacy. Also the villain is the manic type doesnt think about minions just killing people

[Mutazoia]

So I found a spell in ghostwalk that is 0 level and says one willing target dies so I wanted to build a diplomacy bard that walks up to you convinces you that you wanna die or youre willing for the spell and use a 0 level spell to kill them I think it would be hilarious to put my pcs against this villan at some point any pointers would be great thanks guys

...

Ooooo kay....

So...the level of work you would have to put into building a Bard that could talk a person into willingly die, just to use a 0 level spell, seems REALLY counter productive. Especially since you will only be able to use it on NPCs. At that point, wouldn't a cleric with the Death domain just be able to use his domain power to insta-kill with out having to spend (game) years learning to fast talk people?

At best, that spell sounds like it would make a Dr. Kevorkian pun character, but that's really about it.

EDIT: I guess you could make a "Mother of Mercy" character, that stalks battle fields and poor houses, targeting people who are in great pain (physical or mental) but can still be saved, and talking them in to letting her "deliver mercy". Then you can run a murder mystery for your players.