The Anima Gish?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, now I know I have been posting a lot lately and for that I would likely to apologize. But I just have had some ideas that have likely been rehashed by a lot of you, but as I was reading the non-crafting Artificer guide some things clicked together that I found interesting. Feel free to correct anything I misunderstood.

I really liked the idea of a Persistent Bite of the Were(whatever). Which led me to wondering if there were other ways to accomplish it. So I started looking at the Anima Mage, with it's obscenely powerful "Vestige Metamagic" feat (ToM page 51.)

Now for the low cost of 4 feats, and 7 levels combined you can add one of these extremely helpful spells to some other martial character such as a Warblade which can take advantage of the powerful attribute buffs and your likely good Intelligence skill, while alleviating your reduced BAB & Hit Points.

Race: Human
Attributes: Focus on Intelligence, Dexterity, Constitution.
1-3: Wizard
4-8: Anima Mage
9: Warblade
10-14: Anima Mage
15-20: Warblade

Feats:
1st: Bind Vestige, & Improved Bind Vestige
3rd: Extend Spell
6th: Persistent Spell
9th: Combat Feats: It really depends on your preferred melee style, I suggest Rapier proficiency.
12th: Combat Feat
15th: Combat Feat
18th: Combat Feat

Vestiges:
1st to 8th: Paimon for Rapier Proficiency & Weapon Finesse for free.
9th to 20th: Andromalius for Sneak Attacks.

Spells:
Focus on self buffing spells, I would suggest the following as useful Persistent Self Buffing Gish spells.
-Bite of the Were(Whatever) all of these are very powerful for a gish.
-Unfettered Heroism (need to be using action points but DAMN!!!)
-Displacement (persistent 50% miss for 24 hours!)
-Blade Weave (Free Dazes in melee for 24 hours?, and it kind of works with Diamond Mind stylistically.)

[weckar]

I don't really see what the binding is doing for you in this scenario that actually improves your gishing at all. Those feats seem rather wasted really. And aren't warblades proficient with rapiers by default?

[noob]

The binding is for qualifying for a prc that gives metamagics for free.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The main problem with Anima Mage as a gish PrC is that it has a terrible chassis for it-- d4 HD, low BAB, even low skills-- and you need to go almost (if not fully) all the way to get just three Persisted spells. That's not really enough to make up for the sheer amount of lost martial skill.

(Also, as weckar noted, you'd pick up proficiency in rapiers at level 9 anyway from the Warblade dip. It's also debated whether or not Anima Mage advances binding if you enter it with feats alone)

[Nifft]

If all you're interested in is Persistent silliness, then 3 levels of Incantatrix are cheaper than 10 levels of Anima Mage.



It's also debated whether or not Anima Mage advances binding if you enter it with feats alone)

Indeed.

You can certainly enter the PrC without any levels of Binder, but by a strict reading you'd only advance spellcasting.

[Rebel7284]

Fastest way to persist bite of the werebear is
Archivist 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Archivist rest with DMM persist.

If you want more Tome of Battle,
Cloistered Cleric 1/Archivist 3/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10

Also
Bard/Crusader/Anima Mage/Sublime Chord would also work.

[Eldariel]

The main problem with Anima Mage as a gish PrC is that it has a terrible chassis for it-- d4 HD, low BAB, even low skills-- and you need to go almost (if not fully) all the way to get just three Persisted spells. That's not really enough to make up for the sheer amount of lost martial skill.

(Also, as weckar noted, you'd pick up proficiency in rapiers at level 9 anyway from the Warblade dip. It's also debated whether or not Anima Mage advances binding if you enter it with feats alone)

The chassis really doesn't matter if you Arcane Disciple Divine Power. And even if you don't, natural weapons don't care about iteratives and buffs absolutely slaughter BAB in numbers. HD is really a minor part of the total HP; Constitution is the main source of HP in 3.X/PF. Spells make the difference go away easily too: simple Empowered False Life makes up the difference between d4 and d10 on level 10.

Bite of the WereX absolutely evaporates any differences that might've existed and pushes the caster far, far ahead. Divine Power comes with a HD's worth of temporary HP too. To say nothing of the ease at which caster warriors avoid hits compared to mundanes (Greater Mirror Image beats any amount of physical stats for instance).


In short: Gish has little reason to care about chassis. D4 and d12 aren't really that far apart after the first 4-5 levels and in the teens it tips the other way around with aa d4 Gish pulling ahead. Persistent buffs (Draconic Polymorph, anyone?), even just 1-2 (though with Extend Spell/Rods you can double the number due to 48h buffs), are enough to catapult Gishes into Permastats City.

[Thurbane]

The main problem with Anima Mage as a gish PrC is that it has a terrible chassis for it-- d4 HD, low BAB, even low skills-- and you need to go almost (if not fully) all the way to get just three Persisted spells. That's not really enough to make up for the sheer amount of lost martial skill.

Legacy Champion to advance Anima Mage? Medium BAB, d8 HD and 4 skill points/level.

[ExLibrisMortis]

How about illumian (aeshkrau) warblade 1/wizard 2/warblade +1/wizard +1/incantatrix 1/warblade +1/incantatrix +2/warblade +1/jade phoenix mage 10? That's a relatively high-ToB persistomancy gish with 14th-level wizard casting. Granted, it's not the fastest way to bite of the werebear, but you can persist a lot of other spells.

[Long_shanks]

I have never really seen the Anima Mage as a gish class. It is, IMO, a better Arcane Trickster than the Arcane Trickster. Anima mage is not a good gish class: too fragile, bad saves, no armor, no skill points... That's why my favorite Anima Mage build focusses on sneak attack, and gets quite a good chunk of it.

Spellthief 1/ Binder 1/ Wizard 3/ Unseen Seer 2/ Anima Mage 10/ X 3 (Maybe even Arcane Trickster, but I've never got to play it at that high of a level).

You need Improved binding, Able Learner (to qualify for Unseen Seer at level 6), Master Spellthief and of course Persistent Spell as feats. Grab Hunter's Eye from Unseen Seer (which you can persist with Anima Mage), bind Malphas and Andromalius for both Sudden Strike and Sneak Attack). This should net you around 20d6 of sneak/sudden strike at level 20 and 9th level spells, pretty good chassis for a trickster type, though it is lacking a bit when it comes to skill points.

As for your build, I would strongly consider taking 1 level in binder. It saves you a feat, which could be good, but also unlocks the ability to bind more than one vestige. You could bind Paimon AND Andromalius for example.
Also, instead of going back to Warblade, go into Jade Phoenix Mage. In 6 levels, you gain 4 casting levels and 6 Initiator levels, which means, even with the Binder dip, level 9 spells and level 7 maneuvers by level 20.

Edit: JPM 6th level doesn't grant spells, so you could squeeze another level of Binder towards the tail end of the build. That would give access to a third victim... er vestige. Balam, for the reroll every 5 rounds and a bonus to init, reflex saves and AC, is a favorite of mine.