Barbarian /Rogue or Rogue / Barbarian

[Jgosse]

Hey guys I am planning a new adventure league character and need some help. I plan on doing a sneak attack reckless attack combo but can't decide what would be the better base class between Rogue or Barbarian. I know it may not be a optimized character but I think it will be fun.

And before any one points it out, short sword and scimitar can work for both if attacking with strength. Also I will be starting at level 3 has I have some experience from dming a couple games.

Possible build

Thanks everyone, I am currently thinking about starting at barbarian 2 rogue 1. Goliath with Outlander background.

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 8

Athletics (expertise) 7, survival 3, insight 3, perception 3, handle animal 3, stealth (expertise) 7.

What do you think?

[Lombra]

Barb 2/rogue x should give you what you are looking for.

[JellyPooga]

Barbarian 5/Rogue 15 is your end goal. As Lombra says, Barb 2/Rogue 1 is your starting point, but pump that Rogue to 5 as soon as possible before finishing out Barb 5, then the rest Rogue. There's good synergy between these classes (do a search for a guide; there's plenty of them).

[Lombra]

Barbarian 5/Rogue 15 is your end goal. As Lombra says, Barb 2/Rogue 1 is your starting point, but pump that Rogue to 5 as soon as possible before finishing out Barb 5, then the rest Rogue. There's good synergy between these classes (do a search for a guide; there's plenty of them).

Giving 3 more levels to barb just for extra attack on a sneak attack build doesn't look worth it to me. I'd leave barb at 2 for some rage and reckless, then focus on rogue to keep that sneak attack juicy all advenure long. Not to mention that with a 2/18 split your capstone is Elusive, which means free advantage without drawback from reckless.

Edit: also, I'd go scout.

[Jgosse]

Barbarian 5/Rogue 15 is your end goal. As Lombra says, Barb 2/Rogue 1 is your starting point, but pump that Rogue to 5 as soon as possible before finishing out Barb 5, then the rest Rogue. There's good synergy between these classes (do a search for a guide; there's plenty of them).

5/15 was what I was figuring my self thanks for confirming. I will look for a guide thanks.

[Naanomi]

There are lots of potential breakpoints... I did rogue 3/Barbarian 17 that also worked out well (assassination via greataxe!)

[Cespenar]

Also, if you want an unbeatable Athletics roll, put expertise on it and then Rage.

Also, Rage's bonus damage is also added to your off-hand, so that's a reason to grab dual weapons.

[prototype00]

If you want to play a grapple build (and you will basically be the best at grappling in the game while raging with expertise) you want Barb 5 for the extra attack. Then 15 rogue to really deal out the hurt.

I'm playing one in AL.

Lvl 1: vHuman Barb for the sweet saves and hitpoints and armor. Shieldmaster.

Lvl 2: Rogue for expertise, now you can knock prone basically every Tier 1 monster with frightening regularity. Then attack them for Sneak attack damage while they are prone.

Lvl 3- 6: All Barb until extra attack. Take Tavern Brawler at Barb 4.

Then you have this routine.

Round 1: Rage (Bonus), Reckless Attack (SA)
Round 2: Knock Prone (Bonus), Attack with Rapier (SA), Drop rapier, Grapple with Extra Attack
Round 3: Jump up and chokeslam for 1d6 damage (you jump at least 3 feet, have a reach of 9 feet, the enemy is 12 ft in the air and takes 1d6 damage when they fall). Release grapple, Pick up and stab with Rapier. (SA), Drop Rapier, Kick them in the nads (unarmed attack), grapple as a bonus action thanks to Tavern Brawler.
Round 4: Repeat until you break them.

prototype00

[mormon_soldier]

The extra health from starting as a barbarian would be helpful for early game too.

[Dalebert]

I have a bugbear thief X / barbarian 2. The first two levels of barbarian are incredibly front-loaded and useful for rogues, particularly reckless attack and danger sense when combined with evasion. Three more levels is a steep cost IMHO for what you get. When you're primarily rogue your primary dmg is from sneak attack and those three levels represent being one or two dice behind while leveling while slowing other rogue features like evasion and reliable talent. My grapple will be amazing when I get reliable talent!

If you're looking at tier 4, it's just a matter of comparing high level rogue abilities to low level barbarian abilities. I decided I prefer the former. Extra attack is the main thing and I feel like Reckless Attack combined with two-weapon fighting feat to get an extra bonus attack is plenty to dramatically increase odds of landing my sneak attack. I plan to fight with two whips so I can Reckless Attack without closing much of the time. I rage when that may not be possible and 2 rages seems plenty.

I started barbarian because the saves seemed more valuable to me than one extra skill. My first ASI will go into resilient dex to bump my dex from 17 to 18. My unarmored AC will be decent. My plans were influenced by the fact that I could assign a belt of hill giant strength so I could put 13 in str and leave it there. Focusing mainly on con and feats after; maybe sentinel for an extra sneak attack. It kinda bugs me that this doesn't synergize perfectly with whips and reach though.

[OldTrees1]

Rogue 1 / Barbarian 2 vs Barbarian 2 / Rogue 1

Rogue First
Dexterity Save, Intelligence Save
1 Extra Skill Proficiency
-everything else is identical

Barbarian First
Strength Save, Constitution Save
Medium Armor
+2hp (literally only 2 extra hp)
-everything else is identical

I think Rogue First is the winner. The extra skill proficiency with worth much more than 2hp and both Dex and Con saves are important in 5E.

Turns out the SRD was wrong about Rogue medium armor. 2 AC > 1 Skill Proficiency so Barbarian first is the winner.

[Dalebert]

I did it for the con and str saves much more than the hp, with plans to take resilient dex as my first feat which also gets me to even dex. Int saves are the worst. Str saves are the best after dex, con, wis. I end up with three of the best saves vs one good one and one really bad one.

You also lose medium armor proficiency. Maybe you don't care about it but depending on your stat spread, unarmored defense may not be your best option, and breastplates work out pretty well for rogues.

[Lombra]

Rogue 1 / Barbarian 2 vs Barbarian 2 / Rogue 1

Rogue First
Dexterity Save, Intelligence Save
1 Extra Skill Proficiency
-everything else is identical

Barbarian First
Strength Save, Constitution Save
+2hp (literally only 2 extra hp)
-everything else is identical

I think Rogue First is the winner. The extra skill proficiency with worth much more than 2hp and both Dex and Con saves are important in 5E.

I second this, you can buy antitoxin for poison saves.

[8wGremlin]

Rogues don’t get shield proficiency though

[Citan]

Hey guys I am planning a new adventure league character and need some help. I plan on doing a sneak attack reckless attack combo but can't decide what would be the better base class between Rogue or Barbarian. I know it may not be a optimized character but I think it will be fun.

And before any one points it out, short sword and scimitar can work for both if attacking with strength. Also I will be starting at level 3 has I have some experience from dming a couple games.

Any questions?
Hi!

So in your place I'd start as Barb whatever happens, and aim towards a Barb 5 / Rogue 7 build.
Reasons for starting Barbarian are multiples...
- better armor proficiencies (so you maximize the starting 14 DEX you are bound to have, with medium armor).
- better weapon proficiencies (AFAIR all weapons).
- CON > DEX: for your particular case, having a high DEX save is not as important as for a plain Rogue, because you will have (I guess you will go Bear) advantage on DEX saves + no-damage on success (Evasion) or half-damage (resistance) itself halved (Uncanny Dodge). So you won't be fearing AOE too much. However, many CON effects can be very crippling to your character.
Same with STR over INT.

Besides that, honestly anything goes.
Starting 1Barb/2Rogue and building Barb's Extra Attack, or instead pump Rogue first, or going Barb 2 / Rogue 1 for immediate better attack but lesser mobility and getting Extra Attack ASAP...
All will work, so choose the one feature you want the most and pick the quickest route towards it. ;)

[OldTrees1]

I did it for the con and str saves much more than the hp, with plans to take resilient dex as my first feat which also gets me to even dex. Int saves are the worst. Str saves are the best after dex, con, wis. I end up with three of the best saves vs one good one and one really bad one.

Count Resilient for both if you are making the comparison. So 2 good + 1 medium save vs 2 good vs 1 bad save. This is a valid consideration and thus the only reason I did not state Rogue first as being clearly better.


You also lose medium armor proficiency. Maybe you don't care about it but depending on your stat spread, unarmored defense may not be your best option, and breastplates work out pretty well for rogues.


Rogues don’t get shield proficiency though


Hi!

So in your place I'd start as Barb whatever happens, and aim towards a Barb 5 / Rogue 7 build.
Reasons for starting Barbarian are multiples...
- better armor proficiencies (so you maximize the starting 14 DEX you are bound to have, with medium armor).
- better weapon proficiencies (AFAIR all weapons).

(other reasons omitted because they are not being refuted)



False.
1) Rogues get medium armor
Rogue: Armor: Light armor
Edit: Turns out the SRD has a big typo.

2)
Rogue / Barbarians that start as Rogues get all of those proficiencies when they multiclass into Barbarian.

2nd Class: Proficiencies Gained
Barbarian: Shields, simple weapons, martial weapons


Multiclassing gives some proficiencies. This is why barbarian first only loses 1 skill rather than 2 skills. But is also why Rogue first misses out on no proficiencies outside of the different save proficiencies.

Edit: I just cross referenced the d20SRD with the actual PlayersHandbook. Turns out I was completely wrong about Medium Armor. Darn typo.

[8wGremlin]

Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons, hand crossbows,
longswords, rapiers, short swords Tools: Thieves’ tools


Multiclassing:
Barbarian gives: Shields, simple weapons, martial weapons

Rogue gives: Light armor, one skill from the class’s skill list, thieves’ tools

So Barbarian 1st, then Rogue.
you'll be able to do things at 1st level

[Cespenar]

Oh, also a funny usage of Barbarian/Thief, applicable at level 5:

Let's say you're near a building or a tree with an enemy. Standard action grapple, climb 30 feet up thanks to Second Story Work, bonus action Dash, climb another 30 ft, drop the guy.

That's (kinda) unavoidable 6d6 damage right there. Then, jump on top of the guy from 60 feet. This part is a little trickier and more dependent on your DM, but somewhere from 3d6 to 6d6 (maybe the d10s from that part in DMG?) damage to either or both of you should be good to finish things off.

Of course, at this level the wizard is dealing 8d6 damage to 3-10 people all at once, but still, it's fun.

[Dalebert]

Let's say you're near a building or a tree with an enemy. Standard action grapple, climb 30 feet up thanks to Second Story Work, bonus action Dash, climb another 30 ft, drop the guy.

Just 30 ft. You move at half speed while grappling.

[Jgosse]

Thanks everyone, I am starting at barbarian 2 rogue 1. Goliath with Outlander background.
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 8

Athletics (expertise) 7, survival 3, insight 3, perception 3, handle animal 3, stealth (expertise) 7.