So i want to be a vhuman

[Sariel Vailo]

For either swashbuckler or bardic college of blades either way i want good charisma and have ok defense, so how or what should i do here.
I want some unarmored ac but i want to stay mainclassed for at least 17 levels

[mer.c]

Are you asking how you should do your stat array? What feats to take? Which kit to take between swashbuckler/blades? All of the above? Also, if you're asking about stat array, it would be helpful to know if you've rolled them or if you're doing point buy or standard array.

About the unarmored AC, do you mean you want to have decent AC without armor, or you want to multiclass at some point to get Unarmored Defense? If you want to grab Unarmored Defense, but want to stay as a bard or rogue for 17 or more levels, how long are you expecting the campaign to go? Are you starting at a really high level? The chances to make use of level 18+ features are generally very rare.

Sorry I can't be more helpful right now, but give me a little more input and I'll be happy to spin off some ideas! :smallsmile:

[Arkhios]

For either swashbuckler or bardic college of blades either way i want good charisma and have ok defense, so how or what should i do here.
I want some unarmored ac but i want to stay mainclassed for at least 17 levels

Magic Initiate as vhuman feat can help with the unarmored AC pretty well. Pick Sorcerer for charisma synergy and take Mage Armor as your 1st-level spell 1/long rest. It lasts for 8 hours, which is more than enough to last over the course of an adventuring day. As of cantrips, pick whichever strikes your fancy: booming blade is nice for either, swashbuckler or bard, and perhaps Green-Flame Blade for good measure.

[PeteNutButter]

How about just be a draconic sorcerer 1/swords bard the rest?

Starting first level in sorcerer gives con saves as well as 13 + Dex AC, and shield spell. That's all gravy for you.

Stats
8, 16, 14, 8, 10, 16
You can take either warcaster to enable casting while both hands are full, likely two-weapon fighting, or Dual Wielder for a little AC boost. 17 AC at level 1 isn't bad.

[Foxhound438]

as always, I will recommend inspiring leader. d8 hit die in either case is okay in general, but doesn't do you any favors if you're caught out and focused. the THP from inspiring leader is better than a con bump's HP increase.

arkhios has a decent idea with mage armor, but 1 per long rest might be a problem if you get ambushed in the part of the day/night that it's inactive. I would recommend either a sorcerer 1-3 dip for draconic AC, or if you want just pick mage armor as a spell and whichever origin- celestial seems really good here, since you can get 1/rest a bonus 2d4 to saves. in any case, you might just opt to wear studded leather and wait a few levels before multiclassing to get AC, and avoid close encounters for a bit.

[Sariel Vailo]

Hmmm good ideas so far. But yeah the idea was to get some form of unarmored defense for the inevitable.youve been stripped of your gear because of blank.i do like the sorcerer dip for one level so many choices storm draconic,wild,celestial.hmmmmmm

[Throne12]

How about just be a draconic sorcerer 1/swords bard the rest?

Starting first level in sorcerer gives con saves as well as 13 + Dex AC, and shield spell. That's all gravy for you.

Stats
8, 16, 14, 8, 10, 16
You can take either warcaster to enable casting while both hands are full, likely two-weapon fighting, or Dual Wielder for a little AC boost. 17 AC at level 1 isn't bad.

With sword bard you bony need warcaster your weapon counts as spell focues.

[MxKit]

If you don't want to dip sorcerer, I'd recommend a one or two level dip of Monk instead! Just one level in Monk gets you Unarmored Defense and Martial Arts (which basically gives you a bonus attack -- an unarmed strike, yes, but still!). A second level gets you Ki (only 2 points, but you can use them to Dodge as a bonus action! you won't have to worry about spending Ki to Disengage as a bonus action because of your Rogue's Cunning Action) and Unarmored Movement, which always ends up being more awesome than you'd expect.

So, basically: take Variant Human. As an example I'll use the standard array; after applying your two +1s, you should have 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, and 8. Put the 16 into Dexterity, the two 14s into Wisdom and Charisma, the 12 into Constitution, and figure out whether you want Strength or Intelligence to be your dump stat. I'd actually argue for taking Defensive Duelist for your feat (if you're wielding a finesse weapon, which you should be, and an enemy hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to add your proficiency bonus to your AC for that attack -- that's an extra +2 AC just at level 1!), but Alert and Lucky are fine starting feat choices as well.

Your weapons are mainly going to be shortswords and (if you want a throwable option) daggers. If you want a ranged option, I'd go with shortswords and a light crossbow; if you really need the hand crossbow instead, start with your first level in Rogue, but the Strength saves you'd get from starting in Monk will probably be better for you than the Intelligence saves from Rogue, and as a Swashbuckler you're probably not going to want to be doing most of your fighting from a distance anyway.

Whenever you get to level 4 in Rogue, immediately pump up your Dex from 16 to 18.

If you only take one level of Monk, by level 5 you will have the following:


Dexterity saving throws (and whichever other one you like the best)!
16 AC without even wearing armor or wielding a shield!
Every time you Attack with your shortsword or dagger (even if you throw one!), you'll get to make an unarmed strike as bonus action, which will do 1d4+4 damage instead of just 5 damage.
Around 33 HP (so you're a bit squishy, but not that bad...)
An extra 2d6 of damage every turn that you have advantage against an enemy (or if one of your allies is also within 5 feet of that enemy), using any of your weapons, including crossbows.
The ability to Dash, Disengage, or Hide as a bonus action on every turn if you want.
The ability to not even have to worry about Disengaging, even as a bonus action, against any enemy you've attacked with a melee attack that turn.
The ability to use your reaction to add +3 to your already high unarmored AC, since you'll be wielding a finesse weapon, in response to any melee attack made against you (so that's a 19 AC at that point!) (This is assuming you snag the Defensive Duelist Feat at level 1, but if you forgo it, Alert would get you +5 Initiative, which is very strong, as well as other goodies to lower the chance anyone can surprise or get advantage on you, and Lucky would let you roll a d20 three times a day for various purposes, including to try to make an attack hit or try to make someone else's attack against you miss.)


If you end up taking two levels of Monk, by level 6 you'll have all of the above, plus:


2 Ki points, which you can use to (in probable order of priority) Dodge as a bonus action, make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action instead of just the one, or double your jump distance for the turn.
An extra 10 feet to your movement speed, so long as you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield, which you shouldn't be. Being able to Disengage so easily makes this extra movement really useful.


Elusive is a really good class feature, IMO, so I wouldn't want to go more than 2 levels into Monk. If you do, though, you'll get three Ki points instead of two, and also the Deflect Missiles feature, which is pretty damn good to be fair (though you'll never reduce damage by more than 18 points using it). I actually think Kensei is a shockingly good subclass to go with if you do go as far as three Monk levels; you can make your preferred crossbow into a monk weapon, and you can upgrade to a rapier instead of a shortsword (using that as a monk weapon!), you gain 1d4 extra damage with your crossbow, and you get an extra +2 to AC so long as you're holding a melee weapon and made an unarmed attack that turn. This is actually pretty excellent.

Way of the Open Hand is probably your second best option, making your Flurry of Blows more viable by letting you use it to try to knock the enemy prone, push them up to 15 feet from you, or just keep them from using reactions. Sun Soul and Long Death are also okay options, giving you a 1d4 ranged radiant attack (that you can attack with regularly and/or twice as a bonus action by spending one of your by-then-three Ki points) or the ability to give yourself 5 temporary hit points whenever you reduce any creature within 5 feet of you to 0 HP, respectively, but they're honestly not that impressive and I wouldn't personally choose those over Elusive or the Kensei benefits.

[PeteNutButter]

With sword bard you bony need warcaster your weapon counts as spell focues.

Unfortunately that doesn't help with spells that don't have a material component, like shield.

[Sariel Vailo]

So i like these options but im gonna see which basic class is the most useful for me