4th edition technology

[Sequinox]

I just read the stuff on wizards.com about the electronic part of the game. Yuk. I feel that this ruins the game. No technology should be involved with DnD. It's not just that it's un-DnD-ish, it also removes part of the point of the game. (For me, anyway.) When power is out at night, sometimes we'll play DnD by flashlight. Or at places without an internet connection. No more for that with the technology... Unless it's wireless and comes with free internet. Then it'll be possible...

Now, as long as this technology isn't required, I don't mind too much. I mean, if it'll still let you do it with pencil and paper rather than computers, I don't mind. But if in the DM's guide it says under character creation: "At the main menu, select 'characters,' then select 'create new.' Enter what level you wish the character to be, then arrange the pre-generated stats as you wish. After that, let the system calculate your statistics. Then pick your weapons and equipment as you wish. After that, choose your appearance in a guided tutorial that will do it all for you. It'll all be easy. Now, to start playing your new character..." Etc, I will keep with 3.5.

Now I would like to find out your opinions on merging technology with DnD.

__________________

Possible founder of the Oracle fanclub. if there already is one, I guess not.

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

I started mine in a dungeon.

[Jothki]

It almost certainly isn't required, it just sounds like some new tools that they're adding for management and online play. Since it's completely new for them, they have to talk it up as much as possible in order to draw peoples' attention.

[Morty]

Same as you, as long as they keep both online and pen'n'paper possible options it doesn't matter to me. But if they start to favor online version, I'll be really annoyed.

[Sequinox]

Thank goodness. I hope that they keep the option to keep it old fashioned... (I realize I just repeated myself)

_______________

Possible founder of the Oracle fanclub. if there already is one, I guess not.

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

I started mine in a dungeon.

[Jack Mann]

It isn't required. Relax. It's just an optional way of playing.

It's like this: You can play it in person, like you always have, with paper sheets and dice, and cheetos and mountain dew. This is the ideal way to play D&D, so far as I'm concerned.

But it's not always possible. I don't live near anyone who plays D&D these days. I had to move, and I only hear about the old campaigns second hand. So I play online these days. Here, in fact. And when I go into the air force, and I get deployed around the world, being able to play online is going to be damned necessary at times. So their online game table will make that easier. Sure, I'd rather be with my buddies, trading jokes in person, passing the pizza and soda, having a good time. But if that's not possible, at least I still have the option to play.

And online character sheets and resources are good for real life games too. Forgot your character sheet? No problem. Go to the DM's computer and print out a new copy, with everything already filled out. Your book's at home? You can access it online by logging in. You don't want those things? You can't use them? Good news. You don't have to pay for them, then. You can play just fine without them. But if you're willing to pay the 10$/month fee (cheap, considering it includes the subscription to Dragon and Dungeon), you can have these.

It's all optional. It adds to the game, but you don't need it. You can just pick and choose what works best for you.

[Zincorium]

Frankly, there's not much worry about technology completely overcoming D&D, since I'd bet money that the same demographic of people who play RPGs are also buying other books as fast or faster than the rest of the world. It would starve the first major company to eliminate paper completely, and the rest would be scared to follow.

Books are going to be the last thing to fall to technology because they're still enjoyable as is, for many people more so than reading text on a screen. I've tried reading novels online, and for me it just doesn't work as well as picking up a real book and sitting down to read it.

That said, we're adding technology to the game right here, right now, by discussing it online. The original players weren't able to do that, for the most part it was impossible to get help or ideas from anyone outside your circle of friends or some rare publications.

Giving more and better options is hard for me to see as a problem. If they have a service where I can get on and play a game with my friends from back home over the net, using online battlemats and stat trackers, it'd honestly be worth paying a bit for. There's only so much you can accomplish with PBEM or IM, because it's a solely text based interaction.

Edit:
Jack Mann, if the air force is anything like the navy aviation community, there'll be scads of people who either do play or used to. Only trick is finding out who they are.

[horseboy]

I really am amazed at the amount of technophobia I'm seeing on an internet chat room.
Look, they're saying that there will be modules on line. You download the one you want, print it if you want and play. They'll store your characters for you on-line. That way you don't have to worry about forgetting your character. You STILL have hard copy. You just have a back up online.

Did one (or more) of your buddies move away? They're offering a way to be able to still play together. Do you live in the middle of BFE? Hey, look! Here's your chance to be able to play.

Damn Wizards for destroying every printer on Earth.

[TheOOB]

They are going to be online tools to enhance your game and give you the ability to play online with other people. They should make the game better, but there is no reason they would be required.

[IonizedChicken]

Yeah <_< I really don't get all the whining about this particular issue (god knows there are other things to whine about). The tools are optional. You don't have to use them.

[Jack Mann]

Remember, Chicken, the question was whether or not they were optional. If they weren't, then there would be reason to be annoyed.''

EDIT: Just noticed your post, Zinc. Yeah, I was fairly sure there were gamers in the air force, and I just got confirmation via PM. I was just thinking about occasions when I'll be sent to a small base, or when I'm not going to be there for very long. It might be impossible otherwise to attend the weekly meeting with my buddies.

[Logic]

And when I go into the air force, and I get deployed around the world, being able to play online is going to be damned necessary at times.

You have no idea how hard that it is to find a gaming group in the Air Force. This online table sounds like a good idea to me, maybe I can run a few more sessions with my old HS buddies that joined the military.

[Bassetking]

Truth be told, I'm excited about this development.

I'm already an individual who plays with his gaming group primarily over the internet, and we've adapted most of the materials exhibited in the 4th ed. Tech as part and parcel to making the game function.

Gametable allows us to make use of a whiteboard program, pog-placement, and an impartial open dice-roller.

Ventrillo offers VoiP

Invisible Castle and CampaignBlog offer the online character sheets and online character creation opportunities.

The fact that there's going to be a supported package of these tools is encouraging. I "HOPE" That there is going to be the ability for user-customization within the programs.

[Corolinth]

I really am amazed at the amount of technophobia I'm seeing on an internet chat room.Books > pdf files

That isn't technophobia. People just like books better.

[Pokemaster]

My group uses Ventrilo or AIM to run its sessions, our DM doesn't have any of our character sheets, so he keeps asking us for our defense and hit points and we don't get a map so I spend most of my time following the Tough hero around because I can't keep track of what's where. If anything, I feel that WotC isn't doing enough with technology.

I can't justify spending 10 dollars a month for any of their online features (although I can't use credit cards to purchase anything online, so I might be more willing if I could subscribe via money order), but I would be willing to pay $30 if I could pick up the online table and character generator at EBGames. They could probably sell all three core rulebooks on CDs in a $60 bundle and make decent profits off of it, with almost no production cost. There might not be enough of a market to make it worth it now, but I'm willing to bet it'll be there by the time the 5th Edition comes around.

[Crow]

You'll find a game in the Air Force. Even some PJ's play D&D...the younger ones anyways. Like a previous poster said, you just have to know who to ask, otherwise you will be branded a geek forever. But the Air Force is full of geeks anyways. It's the geek branch of the military for heaven's sake.

Anyhow, back on topic. I don't see this "technology" becoming a problem so long as it isn't taken too far. I wil cringe if I see in one of the books something akin to: "For more information about <insert mechanic here> log onto www.wizards.com..." Those annoy the hell out of me.

The only problem I can see with the Game Table is if it doesn't give the DM the ability to fudge rolls. I make a mistakes. I hate when those mistakes cause dead characters. This also makes me wonder if there will be some sort of built in "warning" feature.

"The selected monster has a 93% chance of killing the entire party at their current level. Do you wish to continue?"

[horseboy]

Books > pdf files

That isn't technophobia. People just like books better.

No, this is people scream "Magic screen bad! Save me!"

[Morty]

No, this is people scream "Magic screen bad! Save me!"

Because you've read their minds and you know this?

[Green Bean]

"The selected monster has a 93% chance of killing the entire party at their current level. Do you wish to continue?"

That'd certainly come in handy, especially packaged with a few select others.

"Please note that your DMPC has a 98% likelihood of being killed off by the party due to disproportionate screen time."

or

"The treasure the party has received for this encounter is 12.6 levels higher than appropriate. We recommend you press ctrl+4 to create a rust monster encounter, or press ctrl+5 to activate 'Monty Haul Mode'"

[Jimp]

Personally I'm thankful for the character drawer they demo'd. I can't draw for buttons so it's going to be a fantastic tool for me.
As for the rest? Meh. Don't need, won't use. If need, will use. It's all very situational. I honestly can't see myself EVER using that online dungeon program they showcased.

[Jack Mann]

I suspect the final version of the dungeon will allow the DM to roll secretly. Otherwise, rolling spot and listen for the party would be a bit pointless.

[Jimmy Discordia]

I "HOPE" That there is going to be the ability for user-customization within the programs.

This is the big one for me. I'm optimistic about the technology; sure, playing with your friends around a table is superior, but having a good online tabletop to play with is certainly better than nothing. But if it's not customizable, I'll be very sad, and have to use a different online tabletop. I want to be able to run games from earlier editions, or from other systems, or with extensive house rules online.




The only problem I can see with the Game Table is if it doesn't give the DM the ability to fudge rolls.

Given that it's widely accepted that there are some rolls the DM will have to make in secret (hence the existence of DM screens), I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an option to hide a roll from everyone else who's logged in. Even if such an option doesn't exist (though I can't see any reason why it wouldn't), there are plenty of online dice-rollers you can use... just tell your players you're making certain rolls off-screen and using the results in the online client. Then, fudge away. If your players balk at this, remind them that on a real tabletop you'd be making those rolls behind the screen anyway.

[Matthew]

It looks interesting, but I doubt I would be willing to pay a monthly fee for something like that; I wouldn't be likely to get much use out of it.

[Damionte]

The Air Force is definately the egg head branch. Back in Basic Training I was in an entire egghead flight.

For instance the minimum Equivalency score required to get into the services are like 36 Air Force, 31 Army, 32 Marines, 35 Navy, & 40 for the Coast Guard. The highest trained jobs in each service usually require about a 65-70 score to qualify.

No one in my basic training flight scored lower than 80. About 10% of us scored 95 or above.

Point being the Air force is chuck full of geeks. And the geeks generally work in the same related fields and are all put in the same dorms. So unless you became like an SP or something. "Not so say there's anything wrong with SP's" or you got stationed to an Army Post or Marine station, you shouldn't be able to throw a rock without hitting a geek. "Assuming you have enough arm to throw a rock."

[Sequinox]

Wow... So many results in so little time. Anyway, The point of this thread was more of a question as to wether it was optional or not to use the online version of the programs. The answer: Probably not. That's good. That's really good. Anyway, thanks to everyone here to post a reply that politely (mostly, anyway) explained it all to make me arrive at that conclusion.

Thanks all for getting so may replies in like 4 hours,

Sequinox.:smallwink:

[Damionte]

Yeah the initial question was kinda silly, thus all the sidetracking.

[AtomicKitKat]

I prefer to curl up with a book right before I sleep, rather than worry that I'm frying the unborn children and possibly setting my bed on fire. Not forgetting that it wastes electricity...:smallbiggrin:

[horseboy]

This is the big one for me. I'm optimistic about the technology; sure, playing with your friends around a table is superior, but having a good online tabletop to play with is certainly better than nothing. But if it's not customizable, I'll be very sad, and have to use a different online tabletop. I want to be able to run games from earlier editions, or from other systems, or with extensive house rules online.


Given how incredibly cool that would be, I'd highly doubt it. I mean come on, do you really think they're going to let you play GURPS or Rolemaster on their servers? (Not to mention having to go through all the rigmarole of getting legal fees and licensing from their competition)

[Jack Mann]

Playing something other than 4th is fairly unlikely. Being able to use houserules, however, has been confirmed, at least for the character creator.

[Ominous]

Wizards is just making their version of products similar to Fantasy Grounds (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/home/). You'll still be able to play without a computer, if you want.

[Jimmy Discordia]

Given how incredibly cool that would be, I'd highly doubt it. I mean come on, do you really think they're going to let you play GURPS or Rolemaster on their servers? (Not to mention having to go through all the rigmarole of getting legal fees and licensing from their competition)

If this is anything like other online tabletops I've seen, something like this would probably be incredibly simple. If you can load custom character sheets, it should be easy enough to run any system using online tabletop software by just rolling the appropriate dice in the channel then manually applying any effects to the character sheet. Even if the system is heavily optimized for D&D, it should be simple enough to work around... I think the hard thing would be to program something like this and make it usable only for D&D, but maybe my picture of exactly how the software will work is inaccurate.

If it's somehow set to work only for RAW D&D, I expect to see plenty of hacks that allow things like house rules... and if those can be made, it should be easy enough to hack the client so that other systems can be run. If even these simple hacks are impossible, I don't think I'll be using the service at all - my D&D is full of house rules, and I'm assuming it still will be in 4th edition.

We'll have to wait and see.

[Zim]

There was a Youtube video of the powerpoint presentation that WotC did on the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT. The DDI is a totally optional bonus to the gaming environment, like the special features DVD in a collector's set. Totally optional, but it enhances your enjoyment of the product.

As a DM, I'm looking forward to the D&D Insider tools for campaign and adventure building. It will also make building custom BBEG's a lot easier (right down to making custom portraits using the virtual miniature options). These will be a real time saver.

As a player, I like the idea of building my character with an online tool. I already use Heroforge, but I'm frustrated with the lack of updates. In theory, WotC would keep the character builder up to date with new releases, so that's a good thing.

I'm not so much concerned about the virtual table top or the gamer networking features since I play around a real table and have an established group.

I just hope that it will be accessable anywhere (ie not tied to one computer address) and that the fee will be comparable (or less) than a subscription to Dungeon and Dragon. That would be my only sticking point.

[Jimmy Discordia]

I just hope that it will be accessable anywhere (ie not tied to one computer address) and that the fee will be comparable (or less) than a subscription to Dungeon and Dragon. That would be my only sticking point.

I remember hearing the subscription fee will be $10/month, which seems reasonable. I'm not sure, though, if this was based on an official announcement or just random speculation regarding what it should cost. I don't remember where I heard it, but that figure sticks in my mind for some reason.

[Maxymiuk]

Well, let's put it like this...

OpenRPG
MapTools
3eProfiler

Geeks are already ahead of the curve here. And WoTC is going to try and charge for something that already exists. And that can be used for free :smallconfused:

[PinkysBrain]

Well, let's put it like this...

OpenRPG
MapTools
3eProfiler
You left out inittools.

As I said before, preparation time for using these tools is still substantial ... if you can just buy modules with all the map and data entry done it will make life much easier for lazy DMs (and the ones buying modules generally are).

[Maxymiuk]

Ah, well, if it's just about taking advantage of lazy people, then I have no objections. :smallbiggrin:

[Ivellios]

I like the idea of getting a visual for my character, and an online session seems like a good way to get around schedual conflicts. But I agree that tech seems to take something out of the game... the cornchip troll, peeks behind the DM screen, fart jokes... all would cease to be. I don't really want that. I think a game via webcam would work nicely though.

[RAGE KING!]

well as long as its optional it sounds like a good thing to help out newer players, and as long as veteran players can still use pen and paper im fine.