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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next My version of Gunslinger Class - feedback requested



ludomastro
2017-11-24, 11:47 PM
THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED. THIS IS VERSION 2.

Our regular GM needs a break so I said I would run something. She wanted to play 5e as a PC and I'm obliging. One of the guys wanted to play a gunslinger and brought me a partial fan made class. It didn't fit with the early modern period world I built so I took a shot at making my own. I've gotten preliminary feedback from the group but would like to borrow the brain of the larger community. This forum was recommended by a player in the group.

So, positive or negative, please let me know the WHY so I can try to tweak things. Thanks in advance.

GUNSLINGER
A human lies prone with a rifle braced against his shoulder. At the signal he breathes out and squeezes the trigger. The orc chief fifty yards away drops dead throwing the orc raiders into chaos.

A dwarf readies her fire lance and looks into the darkness. The next goblin attack will have a surprise to deal with — fire. She grins. Then she hears the sound of drums and lights the slow match.

The half-orc had told the tall human that he didn’t appreciate being accused of theft. The he had the audacity to accuse the half-orc of being a coward. Now, the half-orc’s hands drift over the handle of his pistol as he waits for the town clock to strike noon.

All of these heroes are gunslingers, experts in dealing death through the barrel of a gun. They each become masters of high velocity lead poisoning. However, each has their own reasons for taking up the life. Some travel toward a goal such as vengeance or justice while others merely drift from one location to the next.

MASTERS OF TECHNOLOGICAL RANGED COMBAT
Gunslingers prefer ranged combat over melee. They use the specialized branch of technology called firearms to dominate the battlefield. They eschew carved word or wrought steel for the explosive power of gunpowder.

AN UNUSUAL FOCUS
Few people who use a firearm become gunslingers. Most are conscripted to use a weapon that has not yet become commonplace. They line up in rows and stand, kneel, fire and reload when told to do so. Warriors who value distance, who focus the mind and let their firearm become an extension of their will become gunslingers.

CREATING A GUNSLINGER
As you build your gunslinger, think about why your character took to firearms like ducks take to water. What are their goals? Is the gun itself the goal or merely a means to an end? Do they view their skills with pride or wish they didn’t have them? Are they looking for redemption, justice, vengeance, or something else? Did they gain their training in a military or were they a test subject for an inventor? Just remember to trust in the gods and keep the powder dry.

QUICK BUILD
You can make a Gunslinger quickly by following these suggestions. First, make Dexterity your highest ability score. Your next highest score should be Constitution or Charisma if you want your Gunslinger to focus on social skills. (Remember that Intimidation and Persuasion are social skills.) Second, choose the Soldier background.

The Gunslinger


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features


1st
+2
Gunsmith, Pay with Lead


2nd
+2
Crack Shot I, Range Time (1 use)


3rd
+2
Gunslinger Archetype


4th
+2
Ability Score Increase


5th
+3
Extra Attack


6th
+3
Gunslinger Archetype Feature


7th
+3
Shoot with the Mind


8th
+3
Ability Score Increase


9th
+4
Range Time (2 uses)


10th
+4
Gunslinger Archetype Feature


11th
+4
Crack Shot II


12th
+4
Ability Score Increase


13th
+5
Lightning Reload


14th
+5
Gunslinger Archetype Feature


15th
+5
Extra Attack (2)


16th
+5
Ability Score Increase


17th
+6
Range Time (3 uses)


18th
+6
Hard to Kill


19th
+6
Ability Score Increase


20th
+6
Perfect Shot



CLASS FEATURES
As a gunslinger, you gain the following class features.

HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: 1d8 per gunslinger level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 + your Constitution modifier

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light Armor
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Firearms, Shortsword
Tools: Artisan’s Tools (Gunsmith‘s Tools)
Savings Throws: Intelligence and Wisdom
Skills: Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, Persuasion, and Survival.

EQUIPMENT
• (a) a shortsword or (b) a simple weapon
• (a) a longarm with 20 rounds or (b) a sidearm with 20 rounds
• (a) a bayonet or (b) a dagger
• an explorer’s pack

GUNSMITH
You’ve learned to maintain your own gear.
• You may use Gunsmith‘s Tools to correct a misfire as a Bonus Action.
• You may use Gunsmith‘s Tools to repair a broken firearm outside of combat.
You roll your own … powder and shot that is.
• You may purchase Power & Shot at half price.
• During each day of downtime, you may craft firearm ammunition equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). When crafting firearm ammunition this way, you don’t expend raw materials; however, you are limited to an amount of ammunition equal to your Wisdom score.

PAY WITH LEAD
You can make a living from your skills with a firearm. During downtime you earn enough to support a comfortable lifestyle. At the DM’s discretion, you may instead support a wealthy lifestyle. However, if you do so, the exact source of those funds is defined by the DM. Surely you wouldn’t rob a bank, would you?

CRACK SHOT
Learning to put lead where is it needed is critical and you teach the classes.
• At Level 2 you are considered to be within 5 feet of any hostile creature for the purposes of the Help (feint) action if that creature is within the normal range of your firearm.
• At Level 11 you are considered to have an extended melee reach equal to the normal range of your firearm or 20 feet, whichever is less. If a hostile creature leaves this extended reach without taking the Disengage action you may use your reaction to make an Opportunity Attack just before the creature leaves your reach.

RANGE TIME
Practice makes perfect. Good thing you spend so much time at the firing range. Staring at Level 2, you may take one of the following actions. You must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again. You gain additional uses of this ability at Level 9 and Level 17.
• You may attempt an attack with a firearm at up to twice the weapon’s long range. This attack is made with disadvantage.
• You may make a firearm attack check with advantage if the target is within the weapon’s normal range.

ABILITY SCORE INCREASE
<See PHB for text.>

EXTRA ATTACK
<See PHB for text. Extra Attacks at Level 5 and Level 15.>

SHOOT WITH THE MIND
You may apply your proficiency bonus to Wisdom skills as if you were proficient.

LIGHTNING RELOAD
As soon as your firearm is out of ammunition, you may use your reaction to reload it.

HARD TO KILL
• You gain resistance to piercing damage.
• If you are dying due to a firearm attack, you may apply your proficiency bonus to your death saving throws.

PERFECT SHOT
Before you make an attack roll, you may declare the shot a perfect shot. You treat the roll as if the die rolled a 20. Please note, this is not a natural 20 and therefore does NOT trigger a critical hit. You must complete a short or long rest before using this ability again.

Original P.S.
Guns are typically 2d4 (small pistols), 2d6 (large pistols / small long guns), or 2d8 (long guns and rifles).
Yes, I am aware of the Sharpshooter feat but wanted to stretch the idea in a few different directions.

GUNSLINGER ARCHETYPES

DEADEYE
The deadeye excels at distance combat. Others want to be in the middle of combat; however, the Deadeye knows that distance can bring it’s own benefits.

Sharpshooter
At Level 3, you gain the Sharpshooter feat.

Know Your Limits
At Level 6, you may select a lesser penalty to the attack roll in exchange for a lesser bonus to the attack’s damage when using the Sharpshooter feat. (e.g. If you select a penalty of -2, you would get +4 damage on a hit.)

Sniper
At Level 6, you gain 2 + WIS modifier (min. 1) points of Focus. You regain these points whenever you complete a short or long rest.
At Level 6, you may select a sniper ability from the following list. You may only select a given ability once. You must either have or spend a point of Focus to use the ability. If the ability calls for a saving throw it is calculated as follows:

Save DC = 8 + Proficiency Bonus + WIS modifier OR DEX modifier, your choice.

At Level 10, you may select an additional sniper ability.

At Level 14, you may select an additional sniper ability.

Sniper Abilities:
- Make every shot count: if you miss a firearm attack roll by 5 or less, you may spend a point of Focus to cancel the shot. No ammunition is expended; however, the attack action is lost. This does not trigger an enemy reaction or attack of opportunity.

- Improved Critical: <See PHB for text.> As long as you have at least one point of Focus, you benefit from Improved Critical.

- Maneuverig Attack: <See PHB for text.> Substitute a point of Focus for the superiority die. Save DC calculated as shown above.

- Menacing Attack: <See PHB for text.> Substitute a point of Focus for the superiority die. Save DC calculated as shown above.

- Trip Attack: <See PHB for text.> Substitute a point of Focus for the superiority die. Save DC calculated as shown above.

- Cover Fire: You may spend a point of Focus to use your attack to provide covering fire. Your allies are considered to have half-cover until your next turn.

- Guardian Angel: You designate one ally, spend a point of Focus and use your attack to serve as their guardian angel. If a hostile creature attempts to attack your designated ally, you may spend your reaction to make an immediate attack. On a hit, the creature looses it’s attack.

Dead to Rights
At Level 10, you may roll damage twice and keep the result you prefer. You must complete a short or long rest before using this ability again.

Improved Focus
Starting at Level 14, when you roll initiative and have no Focus points remaining, you gain one Focus point.

New P.S.
I'm working on the Gunfighter Archetype (more of a melee gun user) but it's not done yet. Not to mention I'd like to see if this approach works better.

JNAProductions
2017-11-25, 08:41 AM
Why does it have two strong saves?

You give nearly two feats at level one-Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter.

Crack Shot feels okay.

Range Time is ridiculous-as written, there's literally no range limit. Maybe-MAYBE-let you make a shot at up to twice the long range, but event hat's iffy.

Also, why 1d10 for a primarily ranged class?

Overall, this class feels too strong and rather dull. There's some good ideas here, but the end product is lacking.

ludomastro
2017-11-25, 09:49 AM
1. Why does it have two strong saves?

2. You give nearly two feats at level one-Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter.

3. Crack Shot feels okay.

4. Range Time is ridiculous-as written, there's literally no range limit. Maybe-MAYBE-let you make a shot at up to twice the long range, but event hat's iffy.

5. Also, why 1d10 for a primarily ranged class?

6. Overall, this class feels too strong and rather dull. There's some good ideas here, but the end product is lacking.
Numbers added by me to make it easier to answer questions.

1. I hadn't really thought about it. With the whole, all-the-abilities-are-saves-now, I didn't really think it would matter. However, I suppose those are the equivalents of Reflex and Will which are still likely to see a lot of use. Hmmm..... Which two would you suggest?

2. To be fair, I give pieces of two feats at level 1. Here's my logic:
Close Combat Training: Firing normally if an enemy is within 5 feet seems like table-stakes for a firearm specialist.
Take Aim: Again, if your shtick is hitting things, then you should be able to hit things. It's one piece of Sharpshooter spaced out over time.

3. Thank you.

4. Fair point about the range being infinite. I like the double the range you mention. Would you still consider it too much with the limit? Should it be limited to a "long rest" instead of a "short or long rest?"

5. Group gave the same feedback. I'm changing the hit die to a d8.

6. Fair enough. Any suggestions to make it less dull but keep it in the existing theme?

JNAProductions
2017-11-25, 09:58 AM
Range Time does not appear to have any limitations on its first bullet point-is it supposed to be X/Rest?

In addition, you basically shore up all the weaknesses ranged characters usually have. I would get rid of the 5' thing-you're already doing significantly more damage than a Longbow or Crossbow wielder, why should you get (for basically free) the ability to fire in melee without penalty?

As for how to make it more interesting... Make it more than "fighter with a gun". Because right now, there's no fluff, no ribbons, just pure combat numbers.

ludomastro
2017-11-25, 10:09 AM
1. Range Time does not appear to have any limitations on its first bullet point-is it supposed to be X/Rest?

2. In addition, you basically shore up all the weaknesses ranged characters usually have. I would get rid of the 5' thing-you're already doing significantly more damage than a Longbow or Crossbow wielder, why should you get (for basically free) the ability to fire in melee without penalty?

3. As for how to make it more interesting... Make it more than "fighter with a gun". Because right now, there's no fluff, no ribbons, just pure combat numbers.

1. Yes, it is. That's a typo on my part.

2. I'm going to respectfully disagree. Perhaps limit the advantage to pistols only?

3. I'm not sure we're using the term "fluff" the same. Do you mean story related things? If so, why would fluff need a place in the rules. If no, I'm confused as to what you mean.
Also, I've never heard the term "ribbons" before. Please elaborate.

JNAProductions
2017-11-25, 10:12 AM
1. Yes, it is. That's a typo on my part.

2. I'm going to respectfully disagree. Perhaps limit the advantage to pistols only?

3. I'm not sure we're using the term "fluff" the same. Do you mean story related things? If so, why would fluff need a place in the rules. If no, I'm confused as to what you mean.
Also, I've never heard the term "ribbons" before. Please elaborate.

1) Cool.

2) Even with pistols only, you're looking at 2d4 damage. No, make them take Crossbow Expert if they want to function in melee.

3) Fluff is indeed not needed for crunch, but a ribbon is basically a non-combat or mostly non-combat ability. It helps with exploration or social things. For instance, something like the Monk's Tongue of the Sun and Moon.

Composer99
2017-11-25, 02:32 PM
Two general remarks:

(1) Not gonna lie, when I saw the thread title, I was totally expecting a 5e conversion of the Pathfinder gunslinger (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/gunslinger.html).

I don't know that you necessarily want to go down that road, but it might be worth reviewing it and seeing if there's anything you want to incorporate into the class.

(2) Why aren't there subclasses/archetypes? It seems like a bit of an oversight, given they're a design staple of 5e classes. Even one "default" one would be a good idea.

ludomastro
2017-11-28, 12:09 AM
I appreciate the feedback. It took me a day or two to really internalize it. Nonetheless, thanks. Hopefully the edited version works better.


1) Cool.
3) Fluff is indeed not needed for crunch, but a ribbon is basically a non-combat or mostly non-combat ability. It helps with exploration or social things. For instance, something like the Monk's Tongue of the Sun and Moon.
I gave it a shot with the new edit. Hopefully, I'm a bit closer to the mark.



(2) Why aren't there subclasses/archetypes? It seems like a bit of an oversight, given they're a design staple of 5e classes. Even one "default" one would be a good idea.
Very good point. I've provided the Deadeye archetype for this version.

ludomastro
2017-11-29, 02:15 PM
Original post edited with changes.

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 10:54 PM
Shoot With The Minds feels weird, and too powerful. That's a lot of skill proficiencies, and the flavor... What?

Don't just give Sharpshooter as a feature. It's both too strong, and you could come up with something original.

Overall, feels improved. But still needs work. Not 100% sure where I'd adjust it, but it doesn't feel as good as it could be.

With that in mind! You're doing good work, taking feedback and improving on it. I don't want to discourage you, because you've got the makings of something good here.