Best Multiclass for War Magic Wizard

[mailer_daemon]

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere but after reading the Arcane Deflection section I couldn't help but think this is begging to be mixed with another class. Getting +2 AC or (even better) +4 to saves every round for the cost of your reaction is pretty great. The build would involve 2-3 levels (Level 3 for Dragon's Breath + Find Familiar) of War Magic Wizard but I'm having trouble finding the ideal class combo. Some obvious choices are Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster but I was thinking almost any build would benefit from the AC and saves bonus. I don't expect this character to get past level 10. Thoughts?

[Rhaegar14]

I was actually kind of thinking the same thing when I read War Magic. "This is what Eldritch Knights multiclass into after level 7." Not much else besides what you've mentioned really has the Int synergy for multiclassing Wizard to be a great plan, though.

[DarkKnightJin]

I also read the War Wizard, back in the UA, and went: "Welp, I've found the Arcane Tradition I wanna pick 9 times out of 10." Especially for a 2 level dip out of Eldritch Knight. Maybe a bit more, it'll depend on how the character evolves throughout the game.

[mailer_daemon]

I also read the War Wizard, back in the UA, and went: "Welp, I've found the Arcane Tradition I wanna pick 9 times out of 10." Especially for a 2 level dip out of Eldritch Knight. Maybe a bit more, it'll depend on how the character evolves throughout the game.

Agree. And since the higher level stuff for War Magic is so underwhelming there's no temptation for me to stay Wizard but that level 2 ability is so nice I thought there had to be a way to use it. Is there a class that really needs those save bonuses and isn't consistently using their reaction? I thought maybe Warlock because even though Int is wasted on Warlock they are starved for spell slots.

[Galactkaktus]

Agree. And since the higher level stuff for War Magic is so underwhelming there's no temptation for me to stay Wizard but that level 2 ability is so nice I thought there had to be a way to use it.

I don't know the level 10 feature is pretty good for a wizard with lots of control spells. Take the resilient feat for con and you have 4(prof)+2(durable magic)+4(arcane deflection)+con mod on your concentration checks at level 10 so if you don't have -2 in con mod you auto succed on your concentration checks if you take 21 damage or less. Combine that with the wizard spell list for control spells and there is more than enough incentive to stay a wizard. Especialy with the extra initiative from tactical wit it makes control spells so much stronger when you act first.

[alchahest]

access to wizard spellcasting is a great reason to dip more than two levels. it's potent.

[Josato]

Been thinking of making a pc and a villian. One with two levels of fighter for the action surge and the other with cleric tempest for the armor/ weapon proficiency and full lighting damage spell domain ability.

[BoxANT]

Barbarian can be raging and still use Arcane Deflection.

My next toon is a Half Orc Barbarian 5 (Ancestral Guardian) - Wizard X (War Magic).

Mirror Image, Blink, etc and Arcane Deflection still can be used while raging.
And when combined with Ancestral Protection, will make whoever you are tanking, very frustrated.

Especially Blink...


Also, having Haste/Blur for when *not* raging will be nice.

[Biggstick]

I'd be looking at either a Rogue or Dexterity-based Fighter as the most viable candiate for a War Magic Wizard dip. I know it's what you've already pointed out, and what others have pointed out, but other classes will have a hard time justifying the 13 Int requirement to multiclass Wizard in the first place.

[PeteNutButter]

Fighter is the obvious answer, any subclass. Almost everything else is MAD (maybe not a hill dwarf cleric?) or has a pretty good reaction use already (rogue's uncanny dodge). If you roll stats, and have a spare 13 then you can get creative.

+2 AC is nice, but since it's against only one hit/reaction, you face difficult decisions. If you use it on the first hit it can negate, you might face half a dozen more attacks before your next turn, potentially taking a lot of damage. You might end up kicking yourself, wishing you had cast shield instead, even though that first hit was negated by the deflection. That's good though. I am personally a fan of complex ability interactions which cause difficult tactical decisions.

The saving throw side on the other hand is where the money is at.

[Arelai]

You take a 13 wisdom and pick Forge Cleric. That’s the correct answer.

You have advantage mental magic saving throws and a +4 from war magic. Taking forge cleric lets you wear heavy armor-that also gets a +1 from the forge domain ability. So you have an AC of 21, 23 with shield of faith, up to 28 with shield.

Yeah, your stats won’t be too tier, mostly +2’s and 1’s. But, you’ll be hella tanks.

Bonus points for first level in fighter, so you can have proficiency in STR and con saves, and the defense FS for a +1 to AC(so a 22, 24 SoF, 26war mage, 29 with shield)

You need a 15 STR(for plate, or forgo STR and go dex and use half plate).

[Spacehamster]

You take a 13 wisdom and pick Forge Cleric. That’s the correct answer.

You have advantage mental magic saving throws and a +4 from war magic. Taking forge cleric lets you wear heavy armor-that also gets a +1 from the forge domain ability. So you have an AC of 21, 23 with shield of faith, up to 28 with shield.

Yeah, your stats won’t be too tier, mostly +2’s and 1’s. But, you’ll be hella tanks.

Bonus points for first level in fighter, so you can have proficiency in STR and con saves, and the defense FS for a +1 to AC(so a 22, 24 SoF, 26war mage, 29 with shield)

You need a 15 STR(for plate, or forgo STR and go dex and use half plate).

Which level does forge cleric get the +1AC with heavy armor? Afb atm.

[BobZan]

Which level does forge cleric get the +1AC with heavy armor? Afb atm.

Forge cleric gets +1 at lv 6.

[Spacehamster]

Forge cleric gets +1 at lv 6.

Fighter 6, battle wizard 2 and 12 forge cleric seems pretty potent. :)

[BobZan]

Fighter 1 / Forge Cleric 6 / Warmage 10 would have a reliable AC of 29 without magic items.

Full Plate + Shield + Defense Fighting Style + 2 from Forge Cleric + 2 from Shield of Faith or Haste + 2 from Warmage 10 + 2 at-will reaction.

Using Shield spell you can reach 32 AC.

With Resilient Wis you can also have pretty cool saves. Str, Con, Wis proficiences, +2 from WM 10 and +4 at-will reaction.

[nickl_2000]

Forge cleric gets +1 at lv 6.

Forge Cleric gets +1 on their armor automagically at level 6. Forge Cleric can apply a +1 bonus to any 1 weapon, shield, or armor after a long rest at level 1. So, a single level dip can turn full plate into +1 Full Plate.

[BobZan]

Forge Cleric gets +1 on their armor automagically at level 6. Forge Cleric can apply a +1 bonus to any 1 weapon, shield, or armor after a long rest at level 1. So, a single level dip can turn full plate into +1 Full Plate.

Everyone knows that. I was answering his question.

[Biggstick]

Everyone knows that. I was answering his question.

Sure, you answered the qustion, but you presented a level 17 build. How many sessions do you think the OP will play at level 17 or above?

What sort of leveling sequence would you use for this build? Is it fine dealing with the fact that it only has 3 ASI's with the spread you've given? Provide a little bit more of an explanation as to how you're getting to level 17, what your level progression looks like, and why it makes sense to mix the classes the way you have. What makes giving up 8th and 9th level Wizard spells worth it? (And potentially 7th if you grab more levels in Cleric or Fighter)

[Arelai]

Oh, forgot to add 1 level of divine soul can get you an extra +2d4 to a failed save once per rest.

So, here’s the order:
Gnome (adv on mental magic saves)
Fighter 1(STR and con prof, +1AC for 21 base)
Forge cleric 1(base AC 22, shield of faith for 24, shield reaction for 29)
War Mage 2(free mini shield, or +4 to a save per round)
Divine soul 1(+2d4 to a failed save per rest)
Barbarian 2-4(2 gets you dex save adv, 3 gets you extra attack from beserker, 4 gets you to ASI...

ASI-Shield master for +2 on dex save, use reaction to take no damage on success.

Spells:
Guidance
Resistance
Shield
Absorb elements
Bless

Skills:
Athletics
Acrobatics

Instead of barbarian, you can just go to an ASI in war mage-but barbarian gives you dex advantage, so you can use the asi for shield master instead of resilient(dex)

So, strong at level 2, really strong at level 5, and hopefully by level 7 you won’t fail any saves.

[Arelai]

Forgot, barbarian 3 you can take ancestral guardian to be an even better and more annoying tank.

[BobZan]

Sure, you answered the qustion, but you presented a level 17 build. How many sessions do you think the OP will play at level 17 or above?

What sort of leveling sequence would you use for this build? Is it fine dealing with the fact that it only has 3 ASI's with the spread you've given? Provide a little bit more of an explanation as to how you're getting to level 17, what your level progression looks like, and why it makes sense to mix the classes the way you have. What makes giving up 8th and 9th level Wizard spells worth it? (And potentially 7th if you grab more levels in Cleric or Fighter)

Was just theorycrafting AC/Tankiness. Not presenting a 'build'.

[Biggstick]

Oh, forgot to add 1 level of divine soul can get you an extra +2d4 to a failed save once per rest.

So, here’s the order:
Gnome (adv on mental magic saves)
Fighter 1(STR and con prof, +1AC for 21 base)
Forge cleric 1(base AC 22, shield of faith for 24, shield reaction for 29)
War Mage 2(free mini shield, or +4 to a save per round)
Divine soul 1(+2d4 to a failed save per rest)
Barbarian 2-4(2 gets you dex save adv, 3 gets you extra attack from beserker, 4 gets you to ASI...

ASI-Shield master for +2 on dex save, use reaction to take no damage on success.


Instead of barbarian, you can just go to an ASI in war mage-but barbarian gives you dex advantage, so you can use the asi for shield master instead of resilient(dex)

So, strong at level 2, really strong at level 5, and hopefully by level 7 you won’t fail any saves.

So let me get this straight. You're recommending a character with 5 different classes at level 7? And these 5 different classes all have Multiclass requirements...

Fighter: Requires 13 Str or Dex.
Cleric: Requires 13 Wis.
Wizard: Requires 13 Int.
Sorcerer: Requires 13 Cha.
Barbarian: Requires 13 Str.

The character you've recommended can only viably dump Dexterity and Constitution. Honestly, what is the point of putting these 5 classes together? You can mesh two, even three of them together and be ok, but all 5?

Small nit-picky bit. Forge Cleric doesn't gain access to the Shield Spell anymore. Wizards do though.

But yeah though. I would highly suggest OP doesn't follow this build path, as it won't do really much of anything very well.

[Maxilian]

I really like this to MC with Paladin Ancient, its great for a Mage Slayer type of build

[Citan]

So let me get this straight. You're recommending a character with 5 different classes at level 7? And these 5 different classes all have Multiclass requirements...

Fighter: Requires 13 Str or Dex.
Cleric: Requires 13 Wis.
Wizard: Requires 13 Int.
Sorcerer: Requires 13 Cha.
Barbarian: Requires 13 Str.

The character you've recommended can only viably dump Dexterity and Constitution. Honestly, what is the point of putting these 5 classes together? You can mesh two, even three of them together and be ok, but all 5?

Small nit-picky bit. Forge Cleric doesn't gain access to the Shield Spell anymore. Wizards do though.

But yeah though. I would highly suggest OP doesn't follow this build path, as it won't do really much of anything very well.
5 classes on a 7th level character? Seems legit. :smallbiggrin:

I agree with you that it's as niche a character as one may make, and pretty hard to fluff too, so definitely not for anyone. XD

It's not all THAT bad though: just pick normal Human, start with 14 everywhere. Use weapon cantrips together with Reckless Attack (does not need you to rage) and Bless (I mean, everybody likes a Bless so might as well be the "pseudo-level one" caster lifting that weight from the pure Cleric, who can then concentrate on Spirit Guardians). You won't be great, but you won't be bad either.

(Note though, I'd really not pick Barbarian, if you really want heavy multiclass I'd at least pick Paladin, so I can get another bonus to hit on next level with Devotion or Vengeance).

You're also useful out of combat, thanks to a decent array of utility spells.
This character would probably become boring around level 11/12 for most people because falling behind hard in comparison of everyone else. But if one likes crazy strange jacks of all trades, you could actually make it work by "correcting" it with following levels.

[Arelai]

So let me get this straight. You're recommending a character with 5 different classes at level 7? And these 5 different classes all have Multiclass requirements...

Fighter: Requires 13 Str or Dex.
Cleric: Requires 13 Wis.
Wizard: Requires 13 Int.
Sorcerer: Requires 13 Cha.
Barbarian: Requires 13 Str.

The character you've recommended can only viably dump Dexterity and Constitution. Honestly, what is the point of putting these 5 classes together? You can mesh two, even three of them together and be ok, but all 5?

Small nit-picky bit. Forge Cleric doesn't gain access to the Shield Spell anymore. Wizards do though.

But yeah though. I would highly suggest OP doesn't follow this build path, as it won't do really much of anything very well.

The idea is to be hella tanky. Yes, you need a bunch of thirteens, maybe 1 14, but with bounded accuracy you’re fine. Plus, if you’re running bless all the time you have a d4 to make up for on average 2-3 added onto your to hit modifier. Plus you have reckless attack and maybe beserker bonus attack for 2 attacks with advantage each round.

You’re a AC save tank-there’s my supposed to be damage.

The stats aren’t even that bad, point buy is:
STR 9
Dex 2
Con 3
INT 3
Wis 5
Cha 5
Rock gnome to bump INT and con

So you’re rocking a +2 STR and INT
+1 con, cha, wis,
0 dex.

Swap con and dex if you wanna do the other PHB gnome type.

Nothing dumped, decent enough bonus on your cantrips and to-hit wizard spells-especially with reckless attack on your boom blade or GFB.

[Biggstick]

5 classes on a 7th level character? Seems legit. :smallbiggrin:

I agree with you that it's as niche a character as one may make, and pretty hard to fluff too, so definitely not for anyone. XD

It's not all THAT bad though: just pick normal Human, start with 14 everywhere. Use weapon cantrips together with Reckless Attack (does not need you to rage) and Bless (I mean, everybody likes a Bless so might as well be the "pseudo-level one" caster lifting that weight from the pure Cleric, who can then concentrate on Spirit Guardians). You won't be great, but you won't be bad either.

(Note though, I'd really not pick Barbarian, if you really want heavy multiclass I'd at least pick Paladin, so I can get another bonus to hit on next level with Devotion or Vengeance).

You're also useful out of combat, thanks to a decent array of utility spells.
This character would probably become boring around level 11/12 for most people because falling behind hard in comparison of everyone else. But if one likes crazy strange jacks of all trades, you could actually make it work by "correcting" it with following levels.

Agreed with the bolded part!

As for the jack of all trades bit, which is the only thing I really see this conglomeration of classes as being, you can cover that with a simple Cleric/Wizard. Play it as a primary War Magic Wizard with a 1-3 level dip into a Cleric archetype that you like the starting features of, and you're off to the races with utility. You'll have the Wizard spell/ritual list, a bit of healing magic + Bless, Guidance, medium to heavy armor and shield proficiency, minimal multiclassing requirements, and still have full spellcasting progression.


The idea is to be hella tanky. Yes, you need a bunch of thirteens, maybe 1 14, but with bounded accuracy you’re fine. Plus, if you’re running bless all the time you have a d4 to make up for on average 2-3 added onto your to hit modifier. Plus you have reckless attack and maybe beserker bonus attack for 2 attacks with advantage each round.

You’re a AC save tank-there’s my supposed to be damage.

The stats aren’t even that bad, point buy is:
STR 9
Dex 2
Con 3
INT 3
Wis 5
Cha 5
Rock gnome to bump INT and con

So you’re rocking a +2 STR and INT
+1 con, cha, wis,
0 dex.

Swap con and dex if you wanna do the other PHB gnome type.

Nothing dumped, decent enough bonus on your cantrips and to-hit wizard spells-especially with reckless attack on your boom blade or GFB.

Something you may have overlooked with the build is that you can't cast any cantrips (namely GFB and BB) while you're raging. So while I understand the point of going Berserker for the "free" bonus action attack, you're not able to pair this with the attack cantrips. You're also not going to have Bless running while you're using Rage, as you can't maintain concentration on it.

Another point is that I actually think Berserker is a solid path. The problem is, it's not a solid path for it's level 3 ability, but it's level 6 ability. Going into a Frenzy to gain the bonus action attack is going to cost you in having you become exhausted (once the Rage is completed). That first level of Exhaustion isn't bad, as disadvantage on ability checks won't matter very much to a character like yours, but beyond that you start not being able to do your job.

The character you've built is one that can stand there, have a decent AC for 1-2 combats a day, depending on how intense your combats are. Let's not assume you have Plate right out the gate, as you seem to have done. So in that regard, you'll have 19 AC at level 1 (Chainmail, Shield, Defense FS), and then 20 at level 2 (Forge Cleric +1). 20 AC is solid at this level, and bumping it up to 22 with Shield of Faith will make it pretty tough for anything at this level to hit you. Going those 2 levels of War Mage Wizard ups the potential AC by a couple more for single attacks with Arcane Deflection or for the rest of the round with Shield. Both of these cost resources though, and if you're level three spell caster, you'll have four 1st level spells and two 2nd level spells. With how you've described this character's strategy for stacking AC, they'll be burning through SoF and the Shield spell quite often to maintain that AC.

All this aside, and even with the eventual Barbarian levels (another point, you don't get the damage reduction from Rage or the bonus Rage damage on damage rolls if you're wearing heavy armor), you'll end up as a heavily armored character that enemies can't hit or cause to fail saving throws. AND THAT'S AWESOME! However, any remotely aware enemy is going to avoid the massively armored/shielded character (you) and attempt to attack more loosely/lightly armored party members. The only "tanking" mechanism you're bringing to the character is Reckless Attack, and that doesn't come into play until your character is level 7, at least with your proposed leveling scheme. And they won't have a "second attack" from Frenzy until level 8.

Another point brought up earlier is the extremely varied classes involved (Fighter/Forge Cleric/War Magic Wizard/Divine Soul Sorcerer/Berserker or Ancestoral Guardian Barbarian), and the role-play required of such classes. Oh, dont' forget, you're a Gnome. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason a character would go through such a convoluted leveling scheme from a roleplay perspective during the lifetime of a typical game. And it's not like these classes are similar to each other either! I could see combining things like Divine Soul/Cleric/Fighter, or Barbarian/Fighter/Cleric, or Fighter/Cleric/Wizard, etc, but all 5 are just too different of lifestyles to mesh well together from a roleplay perspective imo.

However if you're playing with DM's that are fine with the all over the place approach this type of multiclassing is advocating for, you might have fun with the build. You'll have a high AC, and be typically making your saving throws against spells. I don't try to split up my multicassing beyond two classes personally, as I hate missing out on levels 6-11 for most of the classes (especially spell casters) in my games.

[Arelai]

I forget how stuck in the mud people are about multiclassing. Like your character has to be exactly the tropey thing the class says it is.

The way me and plenty of other DM’s play is that they’re abilities you can have, so flavor the character however you want. So, for all it matters-this is a Gish gnome who gets in there. Simple as that.

Again, you can drop the barbarian, I just like it for the advantage on the last save you don’t have a bonus to. The rage is just extra if you run out of spells. Bumping war mage up works-take shield master at ASI

[Mjolnir_Prime]

I know it's not the most optimized build, but what about Circle of the Moon Druid + War Wizard?

The way I see it, you can cast Barkskin + Wildshape to be a beast with AC 16, and then either burn your Reaction if you get hit for the +2 AC, or go ahead and TAKE the hit and instead use the Reaction for the +4 to your Constitution save for keeping Concentration on Barkskin.

In fact, if you're using it for the purpose of helping maintain Concentration while Wild Shaped, that opens it up to plenty of other interesting buff/control spells.

[GlenSmash!]

Well it's got to be something I don't mind having 13+ Int. Eldritch Knight is obvious, Arcane Trickster Maybe?

I could also see taking it on a Ranger. I typically like to have a decent Int score on my Rangers for Nature and Investigation checks. This could turn that into a good use of a Reaction, and I don't think Ranger's have a lot competing for their Reaction. I'd probably even take it to level 2 for the Initiative bonus.

[Vispiliox]

I was thinking about making a Rogue Assassin/War Magic Wizard. It would be like an Arcane Trickster, but with auto crit sneak attacks. With the alert feat, you could potentially reach +15 to initiative (+20 dex and +20 int).

[Renvir]

I really like this to MC with Paladin Ancient, its great for a Mage Slayer type of build

This is where my head went after reading the question. Obviously, Intelligence is generally not a priority for paladins, but combined with the +2 or +3 most paladins have to all saves from Aura of Protection means you will resist things all the time. Combine that with a class that can cast bless for an extra 1d4, wants more spell slots for smiting, and provides all the armor and hit points you'll need and you've got yourself a tank.

Stats aren't even that bad.
Pump up Str or Dex while dumping the other, decent Con, 13 or 14 Int, 14 to 16 Cha, and dump Wis. Most races would work too since the only stat that needs to be high are Str or Dex.

This build shines at level 8+ but you'll still stand up to most threats in the 7 levels prior.

After level 8 you can go in whatever direction you decide fits your play style better.