Counterspell Variant

[Laundry55]

The new rules for spell identification are controversial, and I am not a big fan of the way counterspell works out of the box, so here is a variation on how it can be used.

In this variation of the rules, everyone always knows what spell is being cast and at what level. This is for the purpose of playability; the game runs faster and there is no vagueness around the GM pretending to not know what players are casting or spending unwarranted effort writing on paper before casting, etc.

Casting time: 1 reaction, instantaneous
Range: 60ft, Components: S
You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. Make a contest of spellcasting stats between creatures, applying modifiers. Subtract the spell level of the target spell from the spell slot used to cast counterspell, and apply this number as a modifier to the counterspell caster's roll. If the result is a tie, or the counterspell caster wins the contest, the spell fails and has no effect.

Also it's a 1st level spell and is available to all spellcasting classes.

[BeefGood]

I like that this pits the casters against each other directly. It builds in (casting) ability score v ability score and prof bonus v prof bonus. It’s like a contest of raw spell casting power.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I'm not sure about dropping Counterspell to first level (too much of a boost to Abjurers, for one thing), but otherwise I like it.


I like that this pits the casters against each other directly. It builds in (casting) ability score v ability score and prof bonus v prof bonus. It’s like a contest of raw spell casting power.

Uh, I don't see where proficiency bonus comes into it.

[Tanarii]

Uh, I don't see where proficiency bonus comes into it.
Yeah. It's an ability check using your casting stat, no skill specified. Not an attack roll or saving throw. So clearly no proficiency is included.

I've made that mistake in the past though with other spells. It's really easy to read something about a check with Spellcasting ability score or whatever and think it's the +ability modified + proficiency number, even though that's specifically called out as used for attack rolls.

[BeefGood]

Yeah. It's an ability check using your casting stat, no skill specified. Not an attack roll or saving throw. So clearly no proficiency is included.

I've made that mistake in the past though with other spells. It's really easy to read something about a check with Spellcasting ability score or whatever and think it's the +ability modified + proficiency number, even though that's specifically called out as used for attack rolls.

Could be done either way. If you want to include the PB, then use the Spell Attack Modifier (=PB + Ability Score Mod) and call it a "spell attack contest." Here's an example. Instead of finding the difference between the spell levels as did the OP, I'll incorporate each combatant's spell level into his modifier.
Attacker: 9th-12th level wizard, PB +4, Intelligence 18 (+4), casting, say, Cone of Cold--5th level spell. Total attacking caster modifier +4+4+5=+13.
Defender: lowly 3rd level cleric, PB +2, Wis 16 (+3), casting Counterspell using one of his 2nd level slots. Total defender caster modifier +2+3+2=+7.
Attacker rolls d20+13.
Defender rolls d20+7.
I worked out the numbers. The chance of successfully Counterspelling is 26% if tie goes to defender and 23% if tie goes to attacker. If, however, the lowly 3rd level cleric has the misfortune of being pitted against a 17th-20th level wizard (PB +6) with Int =20 (+5) casting a 9th level spell, then the chance of a successful Counterspell is 7% or 5%.

I like the drama of the opposed rolls.

[Laundry55]

I don't think it gives abujurers an advantage. They already activate the ward by casting mage armour at the start of the day and have shield as a reaction which triggers it too, and shield is applicable to more situations, so I don't see how it gives any extra advantage.

@beefgood, I like your take on it. I think adding proficiency helps make a distinction between high and low level casters, which is an issue I have with vanilla counterspell. I also like the way you add spell level to each roll, it's a tidier way to do the maths.

[Tanarii]

Could be done either way.
I was about to launch into a pedantic explanation of the difference between ability checks, attack rolls,masses, and how it couldn't be "either way" ... when I realized oh yeah, your right, this is a new house rule we're talking about. It can be done any way the implementer (OP or otherwise) wants. :smallbiggrin: