Help me understand this please.

[thecrimsondawn]

This is a skill from an archetype in Legendary Kineticist's 1. I am having trouble understanding how it properly works, so I wanted a couple extra options.

urge Fist (Ex)
. At 1st level, the surge fist monk selects an element, as per
the kineticist’s elemental focus class feature, and learns one
simple blast from this element. Unlike a kineticist’s kinetic
blast, the surge fist monk deals damage with this blast as
if using an unarmed strike (adding their Wisdom modifier
in place of Strength) and it always targets normal AC and
ignores spell resistance regardless of what type of
damage it deals.
A surge fist requires two free hands
to use and can be used in place of any
attack in a full attack or flurry of blows. In
addition, the surge fist monk’s kinetic blast
is treated as having the monk weapon property
and being in the monk fighter weapon group
for effects which affect such weapons, and
counts as an unarmed strike for any feat which
requires unarmed strikes. Kinetic blasts used this way can only have
substance infusions applied to them.

I deleted some unneeded parts of this and put in bold parts I that raise some of my questions.

From the first part, it looks like there is nothing stopping me from using this as a kinetic blast as normal, but it deals unarmed strike damage instead of a scaling amount of damage. Is this true?

While its not worded as such, it seems clear that this is intended to be used like a form infusion as it prevents you from using any other form infusions with it.

It has no range increments, yet its still a kinetic blast. I cant tell if it can be used at range or not. Further more, it seems you can use this in place of any attack, so I can blast once per round as part of a full attack/flurry.

Looking over some ki powers given by the class, it seems you can extend its range, so by its wording, that means I should be able to blast with it with no issues right?

Anyone have experience playing (or making) the surge fist monk? I want to make sure I play this right, lol

[TheFamilarRaven]

From the first part, it looks like there is nothing stopping me from using this as a kinetic blast as normal, but it deals unarmed strike damage instead of a scaling amount of damage. Is this true?

Correct. The kinetic bast of a Surge Fist deals damage as if it were an unarmed strike. But instead of targeting touch AC, it targets regular AC as normal, and instead of adding strength to damage, you add your wisdom.


While its not worded as such, it seems clear that this is intended to be used like a form infusion as it prevents you from using any other form infusions with it.

You can think of it as such, yes.


It has no range increments, yet its still a kinetic blast. I cant tell if it can be used at range or not. Further more, it seems you can use this in place of any attack, so I can blast once per round as part of a full attack/flurry.

There is no listed range on the Surge Fist page because it says it functions as a Kinetic Blast with a few exceptions, (Well actually, you select an Elemental Focus as a Kineticist and gain the simple blast of that element, which follow the rules of the Kinetic Blast class feature). Kinetic Blasts have a range of 30ft. And this appears to be a maximum range, as opposed to a range increment.

In regards to the second part of this question, there is no wording that limits this ability to once per round. In fact, just the opposite, you can use this ability in place of any attack, meaning all of your attacks in a Full Attack action or FoB could be Surge Fist attacks. Although I suppose you could argue that the authors' intent when they said "any attack..." the authors meant "any ONE attack...". I would talk to your DM about this.


Looking over some ki powers given by the class, it seems you can extend its range, so by its wording, that means I should be able to blast with it with no issues right?

Since you are unable to select form infusions, these ki powers are a means to alter your Surge Fist class feature to have more flexibility. You can use Surge Fist at range by default.



Anyone have experience playing (or making) the surge fist monk? I want to make sure I play this right, lol

Not at all. But if I'm reading the same web page for the archetype you listed, I believe the authors used clear enough language that there is little room of ambiguity, with the exception of the Full Attack part.

[KillianHawkeye]

Kinetic Blasts have a range of 30ft. And this appears to be a maximum range, as opposed to a range increment.

Just want to point out that you're right about this. Like pretty much all magical ranged attacks, Kinetic Blasts don't have extra range increments. You normally can increase the range through the use of infusions (and it sounds like this Monk archetype lets you do something similar with ki powers).

It looks like you've gotten all the other pertinent details correct, too.