Advice Request: Race, Class split, and Feats

[Khrysaes]

I posted in a previous thread about making a character for a OOTA campaign, but I am having second thoughts about a few things, namely that in the title. Even as I wrote this, I was thinking a Wood elf with 8 ranger/8 inquisitor, but please leave your thoughts anyways.

Please excuse my poor grammar.

Character Concept: Elf Gloom stalker/3+ Champion/Rogue

Ability scores:

Wood Elf:
12
17
14
8
14
10

Drow:
12
17
14
8
14
9


Race: Wood elf or Drow?
Wood elf Pro: Wis bonus, 5ft movement, hide while lightly obscured. not a drow for roleplay sakes.
Drow Pro: Darkvision Distance, cast darkness once per rest and not be able to see through it.
Drow Con: Sunlight sensitivity.


Level Split:
8 Ranger/8 Rogue/4 Fighter or 4 Ranger/6 Fighter/10 Rogue

Breakdown:

5 ASI, Proficiency in wis saves at 7 ranger, 2nd level spells 3/rest, 3 known, Land's stride, Fav Enemy & natura explorer improvement.

Vs

6 ASI, 1d6 sneak attack damage, 9th level rogue archetype. if 11 rogue/3 ranger/6 fighter: -1ASI +Reliable talent, 1d6 SA


Rogue Subclass: Inquisitor, Scout, or Assassin?

Inquisitor Pro: Insight check to gain 10 rounds of easy sneak attack as a BA.

Assassin Pro: Auto crit vs surprised targets, lasts only 1 round.

Scout Pro: Reaction move half speed. Expertise in Nature and Survival(might already have the skills, bonus skill if I dont.)

9th Rogue ability:

Inquisitor: Increadibly useful when not in combat, and not horrible when in it. Advantage on Investigation and Perception

Scout: Lackluster but useful. +10ft movement

Assassin: I don't want it.


Which of ASI in order of priority.
+2 Stat(Dex)
Sharpshooter
Edit: Crossbow Expert
Skulker
Elven Accuracy
Resilience
Mobility

8 Ranger can choose 5, but gets Wis save proficiency.

4 Ranger can get 6, none for free.

A woodelf with 10 Scout and Mobility would have 55 movement, and can move 25-30 as a reaction.
An 8 gloomstalker would only have the 35, and if scout 15-20 as a reaction.

[bid]

1. You really need extra attack asap, at character level 6 at the latest.

2. assassinate is overrated: a party of 4 will do "4 damage" in the first round, a lone assassin will do "2 damage", which is half what the party does. You need action surge and extra attack to match "4 damage".

3. Dex17 is usually a bad idea, but it's perfect with elven accuracy. ASI should be used after, to reach Dex20.

4. triple MC is usually a bad plan. Ranger offers good spells at higher levels, rogue improves SA. What will fighter add to compensate those losses?

5. features are usually better than feats. A ranger 5 / rogue 15 will maximize your DPR while ranger 9 / rogue 11 will give you 3rd spells. Both are better than ranger 8 / rogue 12.

6. planning is nice, but it won't survive the battle. By the time you reach ranger 5 / rogue 6, your RP concept might push you in a new direction.

7. I'd go straight for (archery), SS, elven. CE is less useful if you have extra attack, unless you always end up in melee. The 30' effective range of hand crossbow is a pain without SS to pad it.

8. half the "fun (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Fun)" of OotA is dealing with survival in the underdark. Don't pick something that will make it trivial.

[Khrysaes]

1. You really need extra attack asap, at character level 6 at the latest.

2. assassinate is overrated: a party of 4 will do "4 damage" in the first round, a lone assassin will do "2 damage", which is half what the party does. You need action surge and extra attack to match "4 damage".

3. Dex17 is usually a bad idea, but it's perfect with elven accuracy. ASI should be used after, to reach Dex20.

4. triple MC is usually a bad plan. Ranger offers good spells at higher levels, rogue improves SA. What will fighter add to compensate those losses?

5. features are usually better than feats. A ranger 5 / rogue 15 will maximize your DPR while ranger 9 / rogue 11 will give you 3rd spells. Both are better than ranger 8 / rogue 12.

6. planning is nice, but it won't survive the battle. By the time you reach ranger 5 / rogue 6, your RP concept might push you in a new direction.

7. I'd go straight for (archery), SS, elven. CE is less useful if you have extra attack, unless you always end up in melee. The 30' effective range of hand crossbow is a pain without SS to pad it.

8. half the "fun (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Fun)" of OotA is dealing with survival in the underdark. Don't pick something that will make it trivial.

Fighter 3(4/6) was to get the improved crit range, which would mesh well with advantage and elven accuracy. Fighter also brings Action surge and Con save proficiency. Coupled with the ranger 7 feature and resilience, I could be proficient in strength, dex, con, and wis saves. If I did drop fighter, it would likely be in favor of rogue levels, since rogue 14?? also gives wis save proficiency.

I also don't particularly like the assassin, and i think inquisitor would be a steadier option. I am tempted to take scout, but if revised ranger as it is in the UA becomes AL legal, namely the advantage on initiative and against things that havent gone yet, then I would DEFINITELY take inquisitor over scout. Especially if it was a ranger 5/rogue 15.

Thank you for the advice, Ill be considering it.

[Legendairy]

Are you starting at level 1 in the cage? Or are you later into the campaign?

The reason I ask is spoilers, depending on how effective you want to be some items make some races less viable or tactically different.

[Khrysaes]

Are you starting at level 1 in the cage? Or are you later into the campaign?

The reason I ask is spoilers, depending on how effective you want to be some items make some races less viable or tactically different.

Ill probably be starting at level 1 but farther into the campaign than the cage.

I actually cant be there for the first several sessions, because the scheduled time conflicts with my class

[Legendairy]

Ill probably be starting at level 1 but farther into the campaign than the cage.

I actually cant be there for the first several sessions, because the scheduled time conflicts with my class

What does the rest of the party consist of? The Drow depending on DM will bring a ton of problems as 99.99% of underdark races HATE them, but it can work in your favor. Wood Elf, drow will put out a kill on sight for all other elves so there is that, however you get to work with some of the other NPC's and such. Depending on your DM, I told my players out the gate to try and stay away from underdark races initially, if the first character dies and cant be raised (very possible) then it would be ok to bring in something from the underdark. A lot depends on if your crew finds some of the items hidden throughout, they make drow life a bit rougher, have to change your tactics.

Me personally I would probably do a drow house renegade and have a blast, but I think Wood Elf would be better in multiple ways and easier to play in the campaign at most times.

[Khrysaes]

What does the rest of the party consist of? The Drow depending on DM will bring a ton of problems as 99.99% of underdark races HATE them, but it can work in your favor. Wood Elf, drow will put out a kill on sight for all other elves so there is that, however you get to work with some of the other NPC's and such. Depending on your DM, I told my players out the gate to try and stay away from underdark races initially, if the first character dies and cant be raised (very possible) then it would be ok to bring in something from the underdark. A lot depends on if your crew finds some of the items hidden throughout, they make drow life a bit rougher, have to change your tactics.

Me personally I would probably do a drow house renegade and have a blast, but I think Wood Elf would be better in multiple ways and easier to play in the campaign at most times.

Hmm.. I know there is a drow light cleric. another character is playing an evil character(not sure what race/class).

As for the others, I dont remember, but I think one person was going to play a druid.

[Legendairy]

Hmm.. I know there is a drow light cleric. another character is playing an evil character(not sure what race/class).

As for the others, I dont remember, but I think one person was going to play a druid.

Wood elf if you want a slightly "easier" time. Light cleric throwing daylight can be a pain for drow sunlight sensitivity. However, if the cleric also has sunlight sensitivity he may not do that often, and it comes online in a few levels, but it hurts drow and most underdark races in combat exponentially when used to good effect, bad news for a drow party member who relies on attack rolls.

[bid]

Fighter 3(4/6) was to get the improved crit range, which would mesh well with advantage and elven accuracy. Fighter also brings Action surge and Con save proficiency. Coupled with the ranger 7 feature and resilience, I could be proficient in strength, dex, con, and wis saves. If I did drop fighter, it would likely be in favor of rogue levels, since rogue 14?? also gives wis save proficiency.
I'm having trouble adding those proficiencies:
- starting ranger would give you Str/Dex
- resilient for a 3rd one
- gloom 7 for the 4th one? (sorry, haven't looked at Xan yet)
So... starting fighter would swap Dex for Con... No gain here.


BTW, I am a vocal proponent that improved critical is a trap, with numbers to back it up. An half-orc barbarian 13 will do better with a champion dip on a full 50 round day. Anything less is better served by BM. Permanent trivantage might be enough to save it, but I doubt it.

[Legendairy]

I'm having trouble adding those proficiencies:
- starting ranger would give you Str/Dex
- resilient for a 3rd one
- gloom 7 for the 4th one? (sorry, haven't looked at Xan yet)
So... starting fighter would swap Dex for Con... No gain here.


BTW, I am a vocal proponent that improved critical is a trap, with numbers to back it up. An half-orc barbarian 13 will do better with a champion dip on a full 50 round day. Anything less is better served by BM. Permanent trivantage might be enough to save it, but I doubt it.

Yeah gloom gives you wisdom saves later.

Few things, barbs are amazing but they don’t do great amounts of damage with the Attacks from actual table experience, our elvin accuracy archer with champion dip crits way more, when the barb crits it’s great, the barb also takes a lot more damage, doesn’t stealth as well, has less utility out of combat. So all things to consider, the barbarian in this case is a half orc totem barb straight 20 with a fighting style boon. The archer is a wood elf, gloom RR ranger 6/rogue 11/champ fighter 3(I think, might be ranger 5/rogue 12.

While the barbarian is damn near impossible to kill the archer has more consistent dps at ranged and deals with obstacles like flying creatures and terrain features much more easily.

[Lombra]

What is your character idea without thinking about classes and mechanics of the game? Knowing what CHARACTER and not which CLASS you want to play would be very useful.

[Legendairy]

What is your character idea without thinking about classes and mechanics of the game? Knowing what CHARACTER and not which CLASS you want to play would be very useful.

Very much this! I would encourage you to at least write up a small backstory or if you have a good memory discuss it with your DM and see the ins and outs.

With that being said you can complete a cohesive backstory with the thought of a full build in mind. Remember to let some things possibly happen out of fluidity with the campaign rather than the most optimum build ever. Some feats make more sense for white room DPR while some “weaker” options can completely change how strong a character is in any given environment *cough* skulker *cough*.

[Khrysaes]

What is your character idea without thinking about classes and mechanics of the game? Knowing what CHARACTER and not which CLASS you want to play would be very useful.


Very much this! I would encourage you to at least write up a small backstory or if you have a good memory discuss it with your DM and see the ins and outs.

With that being said you can complete a cohesive backstory with the thought of a full build in mind. Remember to let some things possibly happen out of fluidity with the campaign rather than the most optimum build ever. Some feats make more sense for white room DPR while some “weaker” options can completely change how strong a character is in any given environment *cough* skulker *cough*.

I would agree, as I am a fan of making a character, then finding mechanics to meet that character. My DM isn't, and thinks that if you play a Ranger you need to meet the stereotype, if you meet a paladin you need to be a warrior of a deity.

My original character concept is a drow pirate that was enslaved and sent to the cage the beginning of OOTA. It was also originally a melee fighter, a swashbuckler in character if not mechanics. The guy that makes smart ass remarks as he fights, but not nessicarily charasmatic.

I can change the preferred fighting style(or just start with the melee aspect) without chaning the character all that much. I also decided that the character is going to be a Half Wood Elf/Half drow, which are known to exist. Mechanically it would be just one of the two. This can add more depth to the character as he would be ostracized by both wood elves and drow, more so than normal. I was thinking of placing his background in Skullport, perhaps doing something that then landed him captured and sold as a slave.

Going against what I normally believe, fitting in the gloomstalker and rogue abilities would be the life as a street rat in an underdark city. Where normally everyone can see you in the darkness, you need to learn to hide even from that. Favored terrain would make sense. Favored enemy should make sense(i havent picked one, but it will be an underdark native). The magic is a bit ... but the rest of the ranger class fits fine. As does rogue.

[Lombra]

I would agree, as I am a fan of making a character, then finding mechanics to meet that character. My DM isn't, and thinks that if you play a Ranger you need to meet the stereotype, if you meet a paladin you need to be a warrior of a deity.

My original character concept is a drow pirate that was enslaved and sent to the cage the beginning of OOTA. It was also originally a melee fighter, a swashbuckler in character if not mechanics. The guy that makes smart ass remarks as he fights, but not nessicarily charasmatic.

I can change the preferred fighting style(or just start with the melee aspect) without chaning the character all that much. I also decided that the character is going to be a Half Wood Elf/Half drow, which are known to exist. Mechanically it would be just one of the two. This can add more depth to the character as he would be ostracized by both wood elves and drow, more so than normal. I was thinking of placing his background in Skullport, perhaps doing something that then landed him captured and sold as a slave.

Going against what I normally believe, fitting in the gloomstalker and rogue abilities would be the life as a street rat in an underdark city. Where normally everyone can see you in the darkness, you need to learn to hide even from that. Favored terrain would make sense. Favored enemy should make sense(i havent picked one, but it will be an underdark native). The magic is a bit ... but the rest of the ranger class fits fine. As does rogue.

So why not just a rogue 1/ gloom stalker x? Is there something else your character needs that these archetypes don't give?

[Legendairy]

So why not just a rogue 1/ gloom stalker x? Is there something else your character needs that these archetypes don't give?

Pretty much...You could do either first, he could have been born in Ched Nassad (SP?) before it was torn apart by the shadow dragon. was a street rat (urchin) before the destruction then after the destruction had to survive in the wilds (ranger).Also he doesn't HAVE to be an open seas type pirate....the underdark has a rather LARGE body of water in the middle of it that would benefit really well from a gloom-stalker. He boards a mushroom made skiff propelled by undead rats on wheels and captained by a deep gnome thats a bit more whimsical and outgoing, pirate stuff ensues. they are then caught by the drow after raiding one of house Mizzrym where he is brought to the prison cell to find out where he is from (and why they spared killing him like the rest of his crew), and boom!

But any of the classes fit that, if you are trying to crit fish champion always makes sense to an elf that has to prove he is just as good as "pure" wood and drow elves.

[Khrysaes]

Pretty much...You could do either first, he could have been born in Ched Nassad (SP?) before it was torn apart by the shadow dragon. was a street rat (urchin) before the destruction then after the destruction had to survive in the wilds (ranger).Also he doesn't HAVE to be an open seas type pirate....the underdark has a rather LARGE body of water in the middle of it that would benefit really well from a gloom-stalker. He boards a mushroom made skiff propelled by undead rats on wheels and captained by a deep gnome thats a bit more whimsical and outgoing, pirate stuff ensues. they are then caught by the drow after raiding one of house Mizzrym where he is brought to the prison cell to find out where he is from (and why they spared killing him like the rest of his crew), and boom!

But any of the classes fit that, if you are trying to crit fish champion always makes sense to an elf that has to prove he is just as good as "pure" wood and drow elves.

Thank you, i am totally taking this. I was also thinking of useing the shimmer sea(I think that is the right one), but skull port (3rd level of undermountain) seemed more local to the area.

I probably will start ranger for mechanical reasons. I may drop the fighter and do 5/15.

[Legendairy]

Use what you like my friend, I have a ton of drow ideas. The Darklake is more central to the location than Skullport, just to let you know. Skullport is also connected to Waterdeep via the tunnels and Undermountain. Portals also play a huge part in geting into Skullport on the oceans, nothing like sailing straight into a large rock to have it be an illusion that teleports your galleon sized vessel into ports and seeing Skull island grinning at your approach.

Seriously if you have any questions or want any help with story for character ideas, you can ask here or message me.

[Khrysaes]

Use what you like my friend, I have a ton of drow ideas. The Darklake is more central to the location than Skullport, just to let you know.

Cool then.

[Legendairy]

Edited my post and you responded so fast! Darklake is central to the underdark so would be IMHO more fitting, also there are a few other drow cities to be from *shurgs* I just dig the idea of not having a city to call home.