Power up

[Finger6842]

I'm in a campaign starting new content and the DM believes us to be underpowered for it. Accordingly, he has offered to let us pick 1 magic item and 1 feat before we start. I'm a level 11 lore bard/level 1 wizard. I don't have any feats yet and my current magic items are +1 Bow, Glamored Studded Leather, headband of intellect and an Efficient Quiver. STR 7, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 11(19), WIS 11, CHA 18

The party has a 12 Sorc, 11 Life Cleric/1 Paladin, 12 Warrior so my combat roles are usually scout and nuke. We will also level to 13 before we start.

The DM already said no to a Girdle of Giant Strength/Gauntlets of Ogre Power which was my first thought. Fixing my "only glaring weakness" apparently isn't on the table. AC is really low at 17 but doesn't come into play as often as you'd think since I mostly stay at range.

Any recommendations you have for me concerning MC/Feat/MI would be appreciated. No homebrew items allowed but almost anything from official content.

[furby076]

You are a bard / wiz, why do you care about your str? If you care about it, pick up a feat that gives +1 str, +ability. Your str will be an 8 so you get a bump in str save.

You might want to take war caster. It's one of those default feats for any casters.

[Finger6842]

You are a bard / wiz, why do you care about your str? If you care about it, pick up a feat that gives +1 str, +ability. Your str will be an 8 so you get a bump in str save.

You might want to take war caster. It's one of those default feats for any casters.

I was thinking about picking up heavy armor to improve AC so I would need a significant strength buff because +1 won't help. I do have the shield spell so AC isn't critical most of the time, but when it is, wow is it needed. Strength isn't high on my list, it was just the first thing I though of so I asked. Boots of Elvenkind to augment my sneak or boots of speed to augment defense would make some sense as would a better bow because I use it so much.

War Caster would indeed be the obvious feat choice though I also like alert quite a bit.

[AttilatheYeon]

Grab an instrument of the bard

[SirGraystone]

As a level 1 wizard, you can add any level 1 spells you find to your spellbook, if you dont have it already, buy a scroll of shield to copy to your spellbook, that will help your AC. A ring or cloak of protection is good too, but if you can get away with it, ask for a cloak of displacement which cause disavantage on all attack rolls against you. For feat if you mainly fight with a bow sharpshooter can be good.

[nickl_2000]

Resiliant Con or Warcaster are the two obvious feat choices.


As for magical items, most of the Instruments of the Bards are awesome for more versatility. Also any of the magical items that give flight (Broomstick, Boot of Flying, Wings of Flying, etc) would be very effective for your roles. Flight helps a lot with scouting, and will keep you out of combat even more than you are currently.

As a MC wizard, I assume you already have a familiar. With a familiar, you should be able to have them for the work for you for scouting so you don't need to get that close.

[Contrast]

The party has a 12 Sorc, 11 Life Cleric/1 Paladin, 12 Warrior so my combat roles are usually scout and nuke. We will also level to 13 before we start


I was thinking about picking up heavy armor to improve AC so I would need a significant strength buff because +1 won't help. I do have the shield spell so AC isn't critical most of the time, but when it is, wow is it needed. Strength isn't high on my list, it was just the first thing I though of so I asked. Boots of Elvenkind to augment my sneak or boots of speed to augment defense would make some sense as would a better bow because I use it so much.

I'm pretty confused by a lot of this. Heavy armour would be a two feat investment and would give you disadvantage on all stealth checks. Thats a very heavy investment and would make you worse at what you see as one of your key roles (scout). Plus with your dex so high and a magic suit of armour already its barely even a boost in AC :smallconfused:

I agree with others in that you'd be better served by picking up something to allow you to fly/teleport so you can avoid the situations you need AC in the first place.

Also, are your cantrips not better than your bow? Did you not take any offensive cantrips?

[Finger6842]

I'm pretty confused by a lot of this. Heavy armour would be a two feat investment and would give you disadvantage on all stealth checks. Thats a very heavy investment and would make you worse at what you see as one of your key roles (scout). Plus with your dex so high and a magic suit of armour already its barely even a boost in AC :smallconfused:

I agree with others in that you'd be better served by picking up something to allow you to fly/teleport so you can avoid the situations you need AC in the first place.

Also, are your cantrips not better than your bow? Did you not take any offensive cantrips?

I picked up Wiz1 for Firebolt, Find Familiar and Shield. The familiar picks up much of the scouting duty so now I'm considering defensive options like 1 or 2 levels of warrior. I'd rather go cleric but don't meet the wisdom requirement. Warrior would give me shield skill, fighting style, more weapon choices (specifically long bow instead of my current short bow) and maybe action surge if I dip again. Our campaign will continue to be outdoors so the bow range is very nice. I can fire bolt when things get closer for more damage. I'm worried about AC because we've had several encounters where I had to survive long enough to get in range, which can be tough.

Flying is a great idea, sadly the DM doesn't allow flying PC races so I would expect pushback on that but I'll try. A bardic instrument would take up my shield hand without providing the defensive boost so I'm not sure about it.

[Potato_Priest]

Flying is a great idea, sadly the DM doesn't allow flying PC races so I would expect pushback on that but I'll try. A bardic instrument would take up my shield hand without providing the defensive boost so I'm not sure about it.

How are you able to wear a shield and cast spells as a lore bard?

[Finger6842]

How are you able to wear a shield and cast spells as a lore bard?

Currently, I can't, I don't have the shield skill. If I pick up the shield skill via MC I will still need the warcaster feat. When forced into melee I use a rapier and a lute. I try really hard never to allow that to happen. Mostly I use a bow until they are in range and then cast spells.

I really think some of the more experienced players/DM's here will have some innovative solutions. I've only played a few characters so far and am prone to worrying about removing weakness rather than optimizing for DPR, which is not necessarily a good thing.

[8wGremlin]

Currently your AC is 12 (studded leather) + Dex (+4) + 1 (glamoured studded leather) = 17 which is a good ac

If you were to invest in heavy armour, your AC would be 17 (plate) + shield (2) = 19
which you would have to have a strength score of 15 to use otherwise you'd suffer the disadvantage on rolls, etc.
plus you'd need a hefty feat investment.

It's not worth it.


So let's break down your options, we may need to know a few questions.
You say that your combat roles are usually scout and nuke.



How do you scout?
How do you nuke?
What are your Spells?
What magical secrets did you take?
What is a typical combat for you?



Until I hear back from you, I'd suggest the following.

look at taking a 2nd level in Wizard, this will give you access to a school of magic.
Look at War Wizard from Xanatha's Guide to everything.

at 2nd level war wizard you get:

TACTICAL WIT ( +Int mod to Initiative, as well as your dex) = therefore for you it's +8 to init..
ARCANE DEFLECTION: as a reaction after being hit or fail a save, you can retroactively apply a +2 to AC or +4 to the save, but you can only use a cantrips in the next round. this frees up Shield, (which you can still use when you need to)

if you are fixated on your armour class then perhaps

Moderately Armored


Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1
You gain proficiency with medium armor and shields
But you'll have difficulty casting spells due to shield and weapon in hand, and would possibly need warcaster feat after.


another feat could be

Spell Sniper

pick "Eldritch blast" and have multiple attacks keyed of CHA doing 1d10 damage each
and all ranged spell attacks have their range doubled, so firebolt and eldritch blast have a range of 240'

[Throne12]

Take another level in wizard and ask if you can go bladesinger.

[Contrast]

I picked up Wiz1 for Firebolt, Find Familiar and Shield. The familiar picks up much of the scouting duty so now I'm considering defensive options like 1 or 2 levels of warrior. I'd rather go cleric but don't meet the wisdom requirement. Warrior would give me shield skill, fighting style, more weapon choices (specifically long bow instead of my current short bow) and maybe action surge if I dip again. Our campaign will continue to be outdoors so the bow range is very nice. I can fire bolt when things get closer for more damage. I'm worried about AC because we've had several encounters where I had to survive long enough to get in range, which can be tough.

Flying is a great idea, sadly the DM doesn't allow flying PC races so I would expect pushback on that but I'll try. A bardic instrument would take up my shield hand without providing the defensive boost so I'm not sure about it.

As I said and 8wGremlin laid out in more detail, heavy armour isn't much of a buff to your AC (and makes you worse at scouting). I don't think the trade off is worth it.

Firebolt has a range of 120ft. You play in a different sort of game to me if those distances come up a lot. Regardless, that's longer than your current shortbow unless you're willing to take disadvantage on the shot. I would argue that you will basically always have a better use for your action than taking a single bow shot at disadvantage, even if its dashing/dodging.

I guess the real question is, do you want to be a better fighter or a better combatant? I would argue being a better spellcaster makes you a better combatant while being a better fighter makes you a worse combatant because you're spending resources to be slightly less bad at something you'll still be bad at and its taking up resources to do so.

That said, there's nothing wrong with a sub-optimal character if you have a particular concept in mind/you're just having fun with it. If that's the case I might suggest asking your DM if you can rebuild as a valor bard.

FYI Bladesinger is a good shout for AC issues but note I don't believe you can use it and wield a bow due to the two handed restriction.

[Finger6842]

Currently your AC is 12 (studded leather) + Dex (+4) + 1 (glamoured studded leather) = 17 which is a good ac

If you were to invest in heavy armour, your AC would be 17 (plate) + shield (2) = 19
which you would have to have a strength score of 15 to use otherwise you'd suffer the disadvantage on rolls, etc.
plus you'd need a hefty feat investment.

It's not worth it.


So let's break down your options, we may need to know a few questions.
You say that your combat roles are usually scout and nuke.



How do you scout?
How do you nuke?
What are your Spells?
What magical secrets did you take?
What is a typical combat for you?



Until I hear back from you, I'd suggest the following.

look at taking a 2nd level in Wizard, this will give you access to a school of magic.
Look at War Wizard from Xanatha's Guide to everything.

at 2nd level war wizard you get:

TACTICAL WIT ( +Int mod to Initiative, as well as your dex) = therefore for you it's +8 to init..
ARCANE DEFLECTION: as a reaction after being hit or fail a save, you can retroactively apply a +2 to AC or +4 to the save, but you can only use a cantrips in the next round. this frees up Shield, (which you can still use when you need to)

if you are fixated on your armour class then perhaps

Moderately Armored


Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1
You gain proficiency with medium armor and shields
But you'll have difficulty casting spells due to shield and weapon in hand, and would possibly need warcaster feat after.


another feat could be

Spell Sniper

pick "Eldritch blast" and have multiple attacks keyed of CHA doing 1d10 damage each
and all ranged spell attacks have their range doubled, so firebolt and eldritch blast have a range of 240'












Thanks for the reply Gremlin.

Spells Bard / Wiz
Cantrips Vicious Mockery, Thunderclap, Minor Illusion, Blade Ward / Firebolt, Chill Touch
1st Thunderwave, Cure Wounds, Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire / Shield, Feather Fall, Absorb Elements, (R) Find Familiar, Tensers, Comp Lang
2nd Shatter, Invisibility, Heat Metal
3rd Plant Growth, Major Image, Hypnotic Pattern, (MS) Counterspell, Haste
4th Confusion, Freedom of Movement, Tiny Hut
5th Animate Objects, Mass Cure Wounds, (MS) Wall of Force, Banashing Smite
6th Otto's Irrisistable Dance

Most of our combat is outdoors so BI party, bow until in spell range, haste a melee, familiar for advantage, heat metal or firebolt for ST, AOE as needed, counterspell if needed. The DM seems to prefer larger encounters of weaker mobs and maybe a single "boss" type. We don't fight a lot of single target super big bad types. If there is a very strong opponent I will at least try to banish him.

Scouting should change now that I have the familiar but I used to simply stealth (proficient and expertise) to look around and invis if anything popped up on the radar. I am also proficient in investigation and perception with Expertise which seems to come into play pretty often.

I didn't catch the spell sniper range boost, that sounds pretty great to me, I could put away the bow and just nuke at longer ranges.

[Finger6842]

As I said and 8wGremlin laid out in more detail, heavy armour isn't much of a buff to your AC (and makes you worse at scouting). I don't think the trade off is worth it.

Firebolt has a range of 120ft. You play in a different sort of game to me if those distances come up a lot. Regardless, that's longer than your current shortbow unless you're willing to take disadvantage on the shot. I would argue that you will basically always have a better use for your action than taking a single bow shot at disadvantage, even if its dashing/dodging.

I guess the real question is, do you want to be a better fighter or a better combatant? I would argue being a better spellcaster makes you a better combatant while being a better fighter makes you a worse combatant because you're spending resources to be slightly less bad at something you'll still be bad at and its taking up resources to do so.

That said, there's nothing wrong with a sub-optimal character if you have a particular concept in mind/you're just having fun with it. If that's the case I might suggest asking your DM if you can rebuild as a valor bard.

FYI Bladesinger is a good shout for AC issues but note I don't believe you can use it and wield a bow due to the two handed restriction.

Thanks Contrast. I would prefer to be a better combatant. The real root of my concern over AC is the last several encounters I've been unable to avoid melee which in leather armor is scary. But the best answer to your question is I'm feel a need for more survivability. I'm really liking Gremlins answer, spell sniper replaces the bow with something much more sustainable and gives me a much higher DPR. I'm much more focused on a fun versatile character but I recognize the need to up my game.

[SirGraystone]

At level 6 Lord bard get to pick 2 spells from any class:

Mirror image: will make you harder to get hit without concentration.
Misty Step: will get you out of danger as a bonus action.

[8wGremlin]

Hey @Finger6842 thanks for the info,

You have a good selection of spells and good MS choices. (Counter Spell, Wall of Force, Haste and Banishing Smite)
Although I wouldn't have picked Wall of Force or Banishing Smite. I have suggestions if you you can change.

Moderate Armour may be better for your AC, but not by much.
If you took Moderate Armoured, your AC will be Breastplate (AC14) + Dex (limited to +2) + shield = 18 AC so only 1 point better.

Some simple improvements:

I'd put a Ruby of the Warmage on your primary weapon and use that to help cast spells, but don't pick that as your magic item, as it's a common magic item.

If you are allowed any magic item then take ROBE OF THE ARCHMAGI!
You can attune to it as you're a wizard ("harry").

It gives you AC of 15 + dex (+4) = 19AC
gives you +2 to your spells DC, and spell attack rolls
and you get advantage on spell saves


Swap your glamoured studded leather for a RING OF PROTECTION +1
your AC and saves just went up by 1. so your AC is now 20!

Pick Spell Sniper as your feat (picking Eldritch blast as the free spell)

Next level take another level in Wizard and pick War Magic for your school, with the new reaction defence bonuses, and bonus to initiative.

this means you can reliably have an effective AC of 22 for no spell slot investment.
hope that helps.

[Finger6842]

Hey @Finger6842 thanks for the info,

You have a good selection of spells and good MS choices. (Counter Spell, Wall of Force, Haste and Banishing Smite)
Although I wouldn't have picked Wall of Force or Banishing Smite. I have suggestions if you you can change.

Moderate Armour may be better for your AC, but not by much.
If you took Moderate Armoured, your AC will be Breastplate (AC14) + Dex (limited to +2) + shield = 18 AC so only 1 point better.

Some simple improvements:

I'd put a Ruby of the Warmage on your primary weapon and use that to help cast spells, but don't pick that as your magic item, as it's a common magic item.

If you are allowed any magic item then take ROBE OF THE ARCHMAGI!
You can attune to it as you're a wizard ("harry").

It gives you AC of 15 + dex (+4) = 19AC
gives you +2 to your spells DC, and spell attack rolls
and you get advantage on spell saves


Swap your glamoured studded leather for a RING OF PROTECTION +1
your AC and saves just went up by 1. so your AC is now 20!

Pick Spell Sniper as your feat (picking Eldritch blast as the free spell)

Next level take another level in Wizard and pick War Magic for your school, with the new reaction defence bonuses, and bonus to initiative.

this means you can reliably have an effective AC of 22 for no spell slot investment.
hope that helps.




Thanks a ton Gremlin. I was sure someone would see a path that solved my concerns. I was looking at a staff of the magi for the spell absorption but your idea is better. Losing the glamor will hurt because I use that all the time but I can do the same thing with a spell or two. I'll try a swap, lets hope the DM is receptive. War Wizard 22 AC plus the Shield spell, will they stack? I don't have xanthar's yet

I can swap spells, 1 per level (including MS per the DM). What would you recommend instead of Wall of Force or Banishing Smite? Or any other spells for that matter.

~Edit
PS. Anyone have the text on a Ruby of the War Mage? I can't find a description online and won't get my Xanthar's until Christmas.

[8wGremlin]

Hi @Finger6842

I'm sorry the shield and the warmage +2 are both Reactions, so you can do one, or the other.

Shield, as you know, uses a 1st level slot and will protect you for more than one hit,
but the warmage +2 is for one attack only but it is free!

As for spells

Banishment (not Banishing Smite) It's a level lower and can be upcast
Conjure Woodland Beings, the sheer versatility of this spell is amazing
Sickening radiance (4th XGtE) - nasty nasty aoe spell
Find greater steed (4th XGtE) - want a winged mount?
Healing spirit (2nd level XGtE) - great healing


I'll give you more examples but they are good. But Haste, Counterspell you should keep and Wall of Force are still good.

RUBY - allows you to use a simple or martial weapon as a spellcasting focus for your spells - needs attunement.

[Contrast]

...won't get my Xanthar's until Christmas.

If you're not wedded to your bow and have access to Sword Coast Adventurers Guide (and your DM is willing to waive the elf restriction if you aren't an elf) then bladesinger does the job too (though that +4 to saves from war mage is pretty darn nice as well :smallwink:).

Regarding spells, don't forget to pick up a scroll and scribe all the low level ritual spells you can.