Rogue/Ranger multiclass worth it?

[Morty]

So I've been playing in a 5E campaign for a while, to get a better feel of the system. Which is a separate topic, but I've got a pretty specific question right now. I've just reached level 3 with my dwarf rogue (my GM allowed me to replace the hill dwarf Wisdom bonus with one to Dexterity). So far so good, but it won't be long before we reach level 4 - the campaign uses milestones rather than XP (fine by me) and speeds players through early levels a bit. I've been using a crossbow and I plan to keep doing that, but now I wonder if a two-level Ranger dip would benefit me.

The first level of Ranger gets me a new skill, which is good. It also gets me a Strength save proficiency, which... might be useful at some point maybe. The extra hit point is mostly marginal, and being able to use a heavy crossbow is a tiny uptick in damage. The first level Ranger features are nice to have, but not spectacular, unless we're using revised Ranger, and I'm not sure if we are. If so, they become much more impactful. The second level gives me the archery fighting style, meaning a +2 to attack, which is big. Not sure how much use the spells are going to be. All that in exchange for delaying my Sneak Attack progression, Expertise and gaining a feat. Is it worth it?

[Specter]

It is very much worth it.

Even considering the Sneak Attack delay, Archery, longbow proficiency and Hunter's Mark/Hail of Thorns more than make up for it. Level 3 andv5 will also boost DPR and get you some cool stuff like Pass Without Trace (because failing Stealth checks is for losers).

Beware, though, you don't get saving throw proficiencies when you multiclass.

[Easy_Lee]

To add my two cents, five levels of ranger (six if revised ranger) can optimize your rogue's damage while adding significant utility. If it fits what you're going for, it's worth it.

[thoroughlyS]

Do you have the required 13 Wisdom? If not, it doesn't really matter what we think.


I've just reached level 3 with my dwarf rogue (my GM allowed me to replace the hill dwarf Wisdom bonus with one to Dexterity). So far so good, but it won't be long before we reach level 4 - the campaign uses milestones rather than XP (fine by me) and speeds players through early levels a bit. I've been using a crossbow and I plan to keep doing that, but now I wonder if a two-level Ranger dip would benefit me.
4th level in rogue gives you an ASI or a feat (if your table uses them), so you have to decide if the benefits of 1st level ranger are worth this delay. Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter are both very common feat selection, and it's easy to see why.

The first level of Ranger gets me a new skill, which is good. It also gets me a Strength save proficiency, which... might be useful at some point maybe. The extra hit point is mostly marginal, and being able to use a heavy crossbow is a tiny uptick in damage.
You do not get the saving throw proficiencies of the new class. Heavy crossbow would also be a range bump. In most multiclass situations, the thing to look forward to is the class features. However...

The first level Ranger features are nice to have, but not spectacular, unless we're using revised Ranger, and I'm not sure if we are. If so, they become much more impactful.
The first level features of ranger are phenomenal!

...at the right tables. In games with emphasis on the exploration pillar, Natural Explorer obviates basically any challenges. In other games, it basically becomes a ribbon, because everyone can do that stuff anyway.

Revised Ranger is usually seen as a straight buff, because both of the features provide in-combat benefits. If you play at a combat focused table, it becomes a better option for advantage on initiative.

The second level gives me the archery fighting style, meaning a +2 to attack, which is big. Not sure how much use the spells are going to be. All that in exchange for delaying my Sneak Attack progression, Expertise and gaining a feat. Is it worth it?
Spells are always useful. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18191502&postcount=6)

In my opinion, you should snag your 4th level in rogue before multiclassing. I second taking at least 5 levels of Ranger for Extra Attack.

[Legendairy]

Just fourthing? It, Ranger is so worth it in my opinion, it helps out and taking it to 5 gives you another shot for sneak attack and if you go gloom stalker you get more attacks first round so missing isnt a round of no damage, spells are icing and help shore up the missed SA dice.

[sir_argo]

I want to bump this thread. I'm very interested in replies because I have a 4th level Tabaxi Rogue that I plan to MC to Ranger next level. I'm interested in knowing how others plan out the levels for this multiclass. My DM allowed me to retcon my Rogue to the XGtE Scout, and my intent is to go Gloom Stalker next level and go 4th level there too (I don't want to miss out on ASI's).

So I'm interested in how others would level Rogue/Ranger beyond 4/4.

[Legendairy]

I want to bump this thread. I'm very interested in replies because I have a 4th level Tabaxi Rogue that I plan to MC to Ranger next level. I'm interested in knowing how others plan out the levels for this multiclass. My DM allowed me to retcon my Rogue to the XGtE Scout, and my intent is to go Gloom Stalker next level and go 4th level there too (I don't want to miss out on ASI's).

So I'm interested in how others would level Rogue/Ranger beyond 4/4.

IF you can get your DM to ok revised ranger with gloom stalker....so much this. I would do something like ranger 6(if revised)/rogue x........Ranger 5/ Rogue x if not. any of the XgtE subclasses are nice but look at what you get at which levels to see if going further is worth it to you. I am a huge advocate for Gloom stalker to 5 (6 RR).

[mythmonster2]

I actually played a Ranger/Rogue two-handed crossbow build myself, and I dropped out of Ranger at 5th level. Went fantastically, and I ended up being the main DPS and skillmonkey of the party. Would recommend.

[Captain Bob]

It's great, but it really only is worth if you go ranger to 5 and then go into rogue in my opinion (or if you're high level rogue and then decide you want extra attack). Otherwise...you're stuck with 2d6 sneak attack dice and no second attack until you're level 8...which will not feel good. Gutting your class in the mid levels is rough when the payoff is multiple levels away - especially since rogue goodies between 3-7 are amazing - feat, uncanny dodge, more expertise, evasion...all while boosting SA dice simultaneously.

TLDR - 3 can be an awkward break-point, I'd weigh what you're delaying carefully.

[Morty]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure why I thought I'd get the saving throw proficiency, but since it'd be in Strength, it doesn't really matter. Like I said, though, I'm not going to take anything that'd give me extra attack. I'm using a crossbow and avoiding them as a matter of principle. So I'd be taking four ranger levels at most, unless it was Beast Conclave ranger.

I'm not sure how much exploration and traversing the wilderness there will be in this campaign, but I figure there will be at least some. The only civilization nearby god pretty literally flattened.

Waiting until I have four levels in rogue and can take Sharpshooter may be best, though. Ignoring range and cover is pretty good. Even if I'd probably rather wait until I have the +2 from fighting style before using the -5/+10 feature.

Also, yes, I do have 14 wisdom. It's basically my secondary stat after dexterity and I'm focusing on the related skills.

[Gtdead]

If you start as a ranger, I'd say without a second thought. A low level ranger is already strong at exploration and dpr. Rogue boosts his social capabilities and the dpr even further.

The general purpose build is Ranger 5/Rogue X with Crossbow expert. From there on, pretty much any variation works, due to how rogue scales.

My favorite build is Horizon Walker 11/Rogue 9. Very high and consistent damage, not tied to resources or SS, great mobility, access to haste.

If you start as a rogue, I'm not very sure. I probably wouldn't do it.

[Crgaston]

Taking Crossbow Expert at level 4 will get you your extra Attack without having to multi class. Since you’re a Scout (which feels very Rangery) already, I probably wouldn’t delay the rogue progression.

That being said, it’ll be a fun character to play either way

(Edit: I missed where you said you didn’t want extra attack!)

[Morty]

This campaign might or might not reach level 13, for the record, so anything past that isn't going to be relevant. Either way, I'm probably going to take Sharpshooter first, then think about maybe multiclassing to ranger. If it's a "go big or go home" thing where I should get five levels if I take any at all, maybe I shouldn't. Unless I take Beast Conclave, which has a certain appeal...

[Legendairy]

This campaign might or might not reach level 13, for the record, so anything past that isn't going to be relevant. Either way, I'm probably going to take Sharpshooter first, then think about maybe multiclassing to ranger. If it's a "go big or go home" thing where I should get five levels if I take any at all, maybe I shouldn't. Unless I take Beast Conclave, which has a certain appeal...

For it not going beyond 13 and you not caring all that much about extra attack, for crit fishing may want to look into Hexblade and take the bow invocation, 2 levels would still get you 11 rogue and devilsight. If you do want 5 I would say ranger, it gives you more versatility with its spells and damage staples. Just depends on how you want the character to play and what you see the character as I suppose. Straight rogue is not a bad option to those levels, and crossbow expert+SS is still pretty solid and gives you the second attack. (as a bonus action, so it does compete with your rogue abilities sometimes)

[Morty]

I don't want extra attacks from any sources, no. As for Hexblade... that's the warlock subclass, isn't it? I don't think I want to go for a spellcasting class. Doesn't suit the character at all. Seems to me like I'll be best served just going straight rogue. Shame about the fighting style, though.

[bid]

Either way, I'm probably going to take Sharpshooter first, then think about maybe multiclassing to ranger.
Don't use the -5/+10 of SS without getting archery style first. As a rogue, you already have 3d6 SA or more depending on a successful hit.

Fast-forward to level 9
- rogue 9, Dex20, light xb = 1d8+5+5d6 * .70 ~ 18.9 DPR
- rogue 9, Dex18*, light xb = 1d8+4+5d6 * .65 ~ 16.9 DPR
- rogue 9, Dex18+SS, light xb = 1d8+14+5d6 * .40 ~ 14.4 DPR
- rogue 5 / ranger 4, Dex20, heavy xb = 1d10+5+3d6+1d8 * .80 ~ 20.4 DPR
- rogue 5 / ranger 4, Dex18*, heavy xb = 1d10+4+3d6+1d8 * .75 ~ 18.375 DPR
- rogue 5 / ranger 4, Dex18+SS, heavy xb = 1d10+14+3d6+1d8 * .50 ~ 17.25 DPR

As you can see, Dex20 is better than Dex18 with or without SS (Dex18+SS with SS +5/-10, Dex18* without).


If you shoot at long range or against three-quarter cover, SS might be worth it. Otherwise is reduces your average damage.

[Crgaston]

Don't use the -5/+10 of SS without getting archery style first. As a rogue, you already have 3d6 SA or more depending on a successful hit.

(impressive display of mathematics)

If you shoot at long range or against three-quarter cover, SS might be worth it. Otherwise is reduces your average damage.

You can decide when to use it or when not to, though.


http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472938-Great-Weapon-Mastery-How-to-5-10-Like-a-Pro

[Captain Bob]

Hey that's a simple fix though if you're really set on Sharpshooter - take a fighter level. Then you can use a heavy crossbow, get the fighting style, and one second wind for the cost of a one level dip.

[Morty]

I'm not really "set" on Sharpshooter, and I wasn't going to use the -5/+10 clause without the combat style, unless I had avantage and the enemy had low AC. But both cover and long range have come up in this campaign and I expect they will again. Taking a level of fighter is an option, I suppose.