Planescape possibly next?

[Legendairy]

I have seen random rumors here and there about one of the next books to delve into Planescape and possibly Sigil. Usually I just shrug them off and cross my fingers. However, I just watched the PAX unplugged and in the D.C.A. game they had an in-depth encounter with some of the denizens. (Don’t want to say more for spoilers). How many others think this is probably the next BIG thing and/or excited about that prospect and for those who don’t care for Sigil and the Lady of Pain, what are you looking forward to/hoping is next?

[JackPhoenix]

I don't really care about Planescape, but anything that isn't more Forgotten Realms is a plus. Even if it isn't Eberron.

Of course, WotC will turn it into "Elminster's Guide to Planes" or some such crap, and it will still be FR book.

[mgshamster]

If they keep up with the theme of locals talking about an in-verse thing, it'll be a Planewalkers guide to the planes, which would be fantastic.

[RazDelacroix]

If they do decide to make a 5th edition 'Planewalker's Handbook', I can only hope that we get a right and proper mimir to lead us into adventure! Specifically, I would root for Mort of Torment fame to do the chatting! Though it might serve best if it gives us both a Great Wheel that we can use off the shelf, and give us the tools to craft our own cosmos to our diabolical whims! Perhaps some general overview of other cosmologies as well.

Or if they are feeling particularly slaadish, a random cosmos construction table!

'Alright, and you find out that your world has, in fact, no hell. All the demons and devils come from heaven. And are dropped off here!'

[Legendairy]

Morty describing it would be amazing....all of it would be complete BS because know one would be there to threaten putting his ass back into the pillars.

I miss how in depth Sigil was personally, the factions, the Lady, the dabus and their acme ala bugs bunny letter language. Ahh the good times.

[AttilatheYeon]

They did just add 2 subclasses that deal with portals. Not sayin, jus sayin

[Legendairy]

I love FR but it takes a DM who doesn’t throw all the eliminated and blackstaffs into the campaign. No drizzt making appearances and the like. You also have to allow the players to grow their own organizations if they are interested, in FR every piece of turf FEELS spoken for. Depending on area if you want to start a thieves guild you may have to look out for the night masks/shadow theives/zhents. Same with adventuring guilds or wizard colleges etc. it’s all done in FR and done well enough.

My main issue with it is my experiences with DM’s using the classic canonical characters to inspire awe or terror in the PC’s. Yes it can be done right, just usually isn’t.

[Legendairy]

They did just add 2 subclasses that deal with portals. Not sayin, jus sayin

Yaaaaass....

[SharkForce]

If they keep up with the theme of locals talking about an in-verse thing, it'll be a Planewalkers guide to the planes, which would be fantastic.

it's debatable whether there's been a theme of locals talking about an in-verse theme, or if it's been an everything is the forgotten realms theme. so far, we don't have anything that isn't from the forgotten realms to be able to know.

[War_lord]

I don't see how the "(insert FR character)'s guide to Y" name scheme makes a book a Forgotten Realms book. My copy of Xanathar's hasn't arrived yet, but the "Volo's" part of "Volo's guide to monsters" was in my opinion totally superfluous and didn't effect the contents of the book in any meaningful way.

[Talamare]

What, no Elminster Guide to Magic?

[SharkForce]

I don't see how the "(insert FR character)'s guide to Y" name scheme makes a book a Forgotten Realms book. My copy of Xanathar's hasn't arrived yet, but the "Volo's" part of "Volo's guide to monsters" was in my opinion totally superfluous and didn't effect the contents of the book in any meaningful way.

that is somewhat true. the name does not necessarily mean anything.

the part that is less easy to shrug off is that the descriptions are of monsters native only to the realms, or descriptions of monsters as they exist in the realms.

the book discusses hags, for example. what does it say about them as they exist in eberron? they kinda play a fairly important role there. a coven of three hags are the rulers of droaam, and there aren't exactly a ton of nations in eberron for that to be overlooked unless they completely ignored eberron. so you would think that if the book was intended as a general source of information, even if they don't go in-depth, droaam should at least be *mentioned* in the writeup for hags. likewise, dinosaurs are very important to the talenta halflings in eberron, is that discussed in even the slightest? they have all kinds of specialist wizards... do they have white robe, black robe, and red robe? how about a preserver and a defiler? does the section on mind flayers or beholders discuss their role in spelljammer, where they're major races in that setting? where is the entry for an orbus? did the flinds discuss the forgotten realms origin for gnolls only, or did it cover what they might be in other settings? did they mention that certain monster races don't exist in certain settings, like for example there are no orcs on krynn? there's an entry for giants, so where are the athasian giants? does it talk about the fact that giant's hair is actually a resource in that setting used to make good quality ropes? how about eberronian giants, where they play a significant role in the world's history, does it talk about them or their interactions with dragons and drow, both of which are rather significant? hobgoblins are significant to both eberron and krynn, is there any discussion of their roles in those settings? the neoghi literally originate from the spelljammer setting. how much does volo tell us about their role there? is it known that they probably create lifejammer helms (which is super-significant), or that they're one of the major slave trader races in wildspace? does it mention that they obtain slaves through piracy?

if it was just a name on the front cover, that's one thing. but it isn't. the book is a book about monsters in the forgotten realms. it is volo's guide to monsters because volo is an NPC in the forgotten realms known for a few editions now i think to be the leading scholar on the subject of monsters in the forgotten realms (even if elminster thinks he's a bit of a hack, but oh wait, what setting is elminster from again? oh right, the forgotten realms).

now, the fact that the book is about monsters in the forgotten realms isn't necessarily a bad thing (and i really hope this doesn't start a setting war). but it does mean that the book is a forgotten realms book, not a book intended to cover all settings.

[War_lord]

None of those settings exist for 5e. Just because D&D once had a given setting published, doesn't mean they have to continue supporting that product years later. It's a book about D&D monsters, not a book for a specific setting. Where it contradictions deprecated information it replaces it. The alternative would be whole books of just monster stat blocks with no attached lore, because anything else would upset *someone*. If you don't like the fluff, you don't have to use it, and can replace it with whatever you like, they don't have to give specific instructions. I mean, the PHB specifically mentions Orcs and Grummish, is the PHB a FR setting book?

There's nothing in Volo's guide that I dislike to the degree I loath something like the PHB Gnome fluff that describes them all as essentially joke characters. That's way more intrusive on my game and my home setting than failing to reference trivia from unsupported settings with limited playerbases.

[Matheau]

None of those settings exist for 5e. Just because D&D once had a given setting published, doesn't mean they have to continue supporting that product years later.

The PHB for 5e does include information about areas from the Planescape setting. They didn't flesh it out much, but it is already there.

Even ignoring the "bring back X setting" aspect, it isn't exactly that unreasonable an area for them to develop further. Those areas are mentioned, but hardly used or fleshed out. A lot of the species and creatures that were in that setting haven't been given stats. So even if you want to ignore the lore, using those areas for anyone expecting them to vaguely line up with how they were used in the past would require a mountain of homebrew. It also opens up the opportunity to bring in new content with more substance than a bunch of new subspecies of elves.

Setting aside the nostalgia factor with Planescape, I'd still rather see more unique content, which isn't going to happen if they don't flesh out unique environments to house them.

[Regitnui]

I wouldn't mind a planescape book, but it would have to be a planescape book, not a Planar Guide to Forgotten Realms.

My objection is that publishing Planescape next would cut off Dark Sun and Eberron, both big money for WotC in previous editions and both regarding the Great Wheel with utter contempt. Eberron uses the "Orbiting Planes" model, while Dark Sun holds up a middle finger to the very concept of Outer Planes.

I understand Planescape doesn't necessarily lock those settings inherently, but I'm concerned that WotC's focus on AL might prevent them from taking their much-vaunted "shared adventure" to a place where the AL DMs and players can't take their characters to without major changes.

[Corsair14]

Would love a planescape book, with factions as available backgrounds and additional archetypes, all the philosophy that runs the multi-verse and so on. I have seen an amazing 5e conversion book available for free online, my google-fu isn't great so its easy to find if you look. A guy on the Piazza has a fully interactive map of Sigil he adds to from time to time.

But all that said, I have been hearing rumor of this setting and that setting for awhile now. The Wizards team know there is a demand for alternative settings but for some reason refuse to release it even as online info like the UA that filled the most recent book.

[Sigreid]

Morty describing it would be amazing....all of it would be complete BS because know one would be there to threaten putting his ass back into the pillars.

I miss how in depth Sigil was personally, the factions, the Lady, the dabus and their acme ala bugs bunny letter language. Ahh the good times.

Really it should be Rick and Morty's guide to the multuverse. 😁

[Klorox]

PLEASE give us Eberron, Planescape, or Dark Sun.

[alchahest]

What, no Elminster Guide to Magic?

Because what the game needs is more bloat and creep for magic users.

How about a book of martial prowess instead?


-edit-

this is a joke I know we won't get one of those

[Naanomi]

while Dark Sun holds up a middle finger to the very concept of Outer Planes
Darksun exists in the normal Planes, it is just very hard to access because of how messed up the local metaphysical scene is. One of the Planescape faction leaders is a Elemental Cleric originally from Athas; and there is a whole adventure line in Darksun dealing with the descendants of the crashed Gith Pirate ship. Eberron (and some models of Mystara) are more difficult to incorporate and probably only exist as alternate Cosmologies accessible through the Deep Astral (or, in 3.X, the Deep Shadow)

[Anonymouswizard]

Of course, WotC will turn it into "Elminster's Guide to Planes" or some such crap, and it will still be FR book.

That's what I've been saying for the last year or two!


If they keep up with the theme of locals talking about an in-verse thing, it'll be a Planewalkers guide to the planes, which would be fantastic.

If they release an edition entirely in planar cant they can have my money twice. Speaking of which, I need to start brushing up on the cant if my planned Planescape games are every going to happen.


None of those settings exist for 5e. Just because D&D once had a given setting published, doesn't mean they have to continue supporting that product years later.

The problem is less that they're not bringing back setting X, it's that they're not using any of the settings they have access to (except now one FR sub-setting, but only one).

Heck, I own three 2e setting boxed sets in pdf, Birthright (a much more interesting standard fantasy setting in my opinion), Dark Sun, and Planescape. While I'd love to see any of those released for 5e it's not a big deal, I have all the fluff I need to make conversions.

It's that I've been wanting to support 5e (a bit on and off), and my only options is to buy books for a setting that by this point I'm burningly indifferent towards. I used to passively dislike it, in the sense that I'm willing to nick a few of the pieces and would leave the rest, but WotC trying to push it down my throat has made me passionately not care about it. Because I don't actually dislike it anymore, I'd never run in it but I'd try a game set in the Realms if offered, but the mere mention of them as part of a book premise immediately makes me uninterested.

Now the PhB was great, like always, being low on fluff


It's a book about D&DForgotten Realms monsters, not a book for a specific setting. Where it contradictions deprecated information it replaces it.

Fixed that for you.

Old monster books were like the monster manual, giving a fairly generic bit of fluff that was easily mutable in it's specifics. If you wanted more fluff, well you bought a book for a setting that discussed that region. Sure, there was a lot of crunch-fluff crossover in order to sell books, but before 5e I was never told that a book styled after a particular setting was a generic book.

Not that I'm against trying to do a single setting edition of D&D, BECM was a good edition and only had one setting (Mystara, which had the inside of the planet as a bonus). The Hollow World box brings back memories of when I first saw it, with it's rules for Warrior Elves (a mindblower for 10-12 year old me, who had only seen how BECM handled races) and character cultures, I wish we were getting more books like that, which felt like they were adding to the game instead of 'here's more FR stuff because it's our most popular setting'. Let's bring back more fun books, with hollow worlds to explore and gnomes in space!

[Corsair14]

I don't even think FR is the most popular setting, its just the setting that has been shoved down our throats by the company for decades now thus its what everyone knows. I think if they suddenly halted FR and pushed Greyhawk exclusively just as hard for the next decade with novels and support, it would be the popular setting. I don't think a fringe "weird" setting would be up there popularitywise with a standard fantasy world like FR, DL or GH, but it would certainly sell in large enough numbers to make money. If I was running the show, I would have one book SCAG sized released every year each for an alternate existing setting. It could be one writer and some playtesters later on, and along with sporadic online support, theres your setting. Not a major investment in resources and would sell like hotcakes. Again though, unless there is a major change in policy at Wizards, I don't see this happening for any setting. Hell, I just want setting specific archetypes and perhaps back grounds, basically the hard rules, the fluff is already all over the place. I have all of spelljammer and Dark Sun on my phone. The fluff is the easy part.

[Legendairy]

I loved birthright and had a fantastic time, we did away with a lot of the micromanaging a region and all that and focused more on a highlander type game. Kill them take their mojo and hope you don’t get more bad then good, becoming the Gorgon or the Manslayer was a bad thing.

[SirGraystone]

The problem with settings is that everyone have his favorite. Forgotten Realms has long history and is probably the most well known of them, it's also generic enough that adventure can be move to other setting without too much trouble.

Since Wizards only produce 3 or 4 books a year, it's unlikely that they will revisit other setting either. Planescape is possibly the more likely since travelling to other planes is something for higher level character to do.

Since psionics where introduce again in UA, and left out of Xanathar's guide, it's likely to be in a new book in 2018.

[Joe the Rat]

A Planescape Setting / Planar Guidebook / Planar Adventure has some unique traits that would work well as an setting or pre-expansion offering. You have a panoply of weird, wild, wonderful locations you can visit, some of which are responsible for supplying the various minions and masterminds behind recent adventures. You also have a fairly unique trait - a setting which, due to cosmology design, can be tied directly to any other setting. This can be your transitional and transitioning offering - a way to get characters from world A to world B, with a sidequest to punch Belial in the nethers. It would be a bit more gradual than creating new worlds, then going back to detail how you hook them to the FR (because freaking everything is FR right now).

Basically, I'm saying you could use a Planes publication as a hub to take you to other worlds, and from there start adding those worlds/settings.

(The other way you can do this is Spelljammer.)

[Legendairy]

Another thing that’s appealing about FR is it’s where most the popular novels/hero’s are. Someone new to dnd or just reading fantasy books might like the draw of the relatability.

Again I like the realms but I don’t like all realms all the time.

My current games that I run are a post apocalyptic setting on Friday and an Eberron on sarurdays.

[Unoriginal]

Given the UA we've been getting for months, we're definitively getting a book about the Planes next. Planescape, though? Not sure.

[Legendairy]

Given the UA we've been getting for months, we're definitively getting a book about the Planes next. Planescape, though? Not sure.

I would be ok with a guide.....as long as I get a few pages on Sigil...I don’t need them, I have a lot converted already in my chicken scratch but I always like WotC’s take on it.
A statted our mercykiller and their weapons would be nifty too.

[Anonymouswizard]

The problem with settings is that everyone have his favorite. Forgotten Realms has long history and is probably the most well known of them, it's also generic enough that adventure can be move to other setting without too much trouble.

Time for a theory of mine.

People would be less annoyed if they were concentrating on a new setting instead of an established one.

The first part is that a new setting would honestly need more support than an old setting. There's already five thousand metric tonnes of fluff for Forgotten Realms, it doesn't need new material written about it, but a new setting about the Broccoli Valley would obviously be a bit fluff light and could be expanded upon without annoying fanboys (*cough* spellplague).

The second is that the Forgotten Realms already have a hatedom (I used to be a part of it), partially because of the metric tonnes of fluff.


Honestly, I believe there's been multiple settings for D&D since 1e, I don't get why WotC is pushing the FR so hard this edition, publishing books for one setting but not any of the others was only a recipe for resentment. If they'd just used FR fluff like they'd used GH stuff in 3.X I think people would be much happier.

[Sigreid]

The problem with settings is that everyone have his favorite. Forgotten Realms has long history and is probably the most well known of them, it's also generic enough that adventure can be move to other setting without too much trouble.

Since Wizards only produce 3 or 4 books a year, it's unlikely that they will revisit other setting either. Planescape is possibly the more likely since travelling to other planes is something for higher level character to do.

Since psionics where introduce again in UA, and left out of Xanathar's guide, it's likely to be in a new book in 2018.

It probably has as much to do with the novels as anything else. It's a product tie-in that produces 2 revenue streams that potentially increase each others value. Some people read the novels and get curious about the game. Some people play the game and get curious about the novels.

I'm aware there are books for other settings, but the Forgotten Realm ones seem the most prolific.

[gkathellar]

My objection is that publishing Planescape next would cut off Dark Sun and Eberron, both big money for WotC in previous editions and both regarding the Great Wheel with utter contempt. Eberron uses the "Orbiting Planes" model, while Dark Sun holds up a middle finger to the very concept of Outer Planes.

I believe that Baker did at one point posit that Eberron was probably just a particularly distant location on the Astral, or perhaps an alternate prime accessible by way of Shadow Walk. Likewise, Athas is technically a part of the Planescape cosmology, just a mostly-inaccessible one due to the giant cloud of spiritual death surrounding that world.

For what it's worth.


I understand Planescape doesn't necessarily lock those settings inherently, but I'm concerned that WotC's focus on AL might prevent them from taking their much-vaunted "shared adventure" to a place where the AL DMs and players can't take their characters to without major changes.

Sounds about right.

[Legendairy]

Time for a theory of mine.

People would be less annoyed if they were concentrating on a new setting instead of an established one.

The first part is that a new setting would honestly need more support than an old setting. There's already five thousand metric tonnes of fluff for Forgotten Realms, it doesn't need new material written about it, but a new setting about the Broccoli Valley would obviously be a bit fluff light and could be expanded upon without annoying fanboys (*cough* spellplague).

The second is that the Forgotten Realms already have a hatedom (I used to be a part of it), partially because of the metric tonnes of fluff.


Honestly, I believe there's been multiple settings for D&D since 1e, I don't get why WotC is pushing the FR so hard this edition, publishing books for one setting but not any of the others was only a recipe for resentment. If they'd just used FR fluff like they'd used GH stuff in 3.X I think people would be much happier.

Because some of those settings seemed to fall pretty flat after investing some money’s hoping they would catch on, and didn’t. I’m thinking of things like Al’qadim, and in our local shops in California not a lot seemed into spelljammer-birthright-greyhawk-planescape-oriental adventures. Also a lot of the modules were there own places not necessarily belonging to any specific setting, that’s not the case anymore.

[Legendairy]

It probably has as much to do with the novels as anything else. It's a product tie-in that produces 2 revenue streams that potentially increase each others value. Some people read the novels and get curious about the game. Some people play the game and get curious about the novels.

I'm aware there are books for other settings, but the Forgotten Realm ones seem the most prolific.

Also with all the fluff from novels and support books it’s “easier” to DM to an extent. While world creating is fun for me, I just don’t have the time to flesh out as much as I would like if we we’re going to play in a homebrew world.

That’s one of the reasons I enjoyed Eberron, there was enough fluff but not so much you feel swamped by it.

[Regitnui]

Darksun exists in the normal Planes, it is just very hard to access because of how messed up the local metaphysical scene is. One of the Planescape faction leaders is a Elemental Cleric originally from Athas; and there is a whole adventure line in Darksun dealing with the descendants of the crashed Gith Pirate ship. Eberron (and some models of Mystara) are more difficult to incorporate and probably only exist as alternate Cosmologies accessible through the Deep Astral (or, in 3.X, the Deep Shadow)

This has been discussed with Keith Baker, and if he had a choice he'd place the setting away, guarded by the will of the Primordial dragons from planar marauders and FR plane-hopping players.

[Legendairy]

This has been discussed with Keith Baker, and if he had a choice he'd place the setting away, guarded by the will of the Primordial dragons from planar marauders and FR plane-hopping players.

Yup, kind of a big part of Eberron was that it’s cut off from the astral plane and others when the gates were sealed or the gith were pushed out.

Good job Blackwheel company.

[Naanomi]

Yup, kind of a big part of Eberron was that it’s cut off from the astral plane and others when the gates were sealed or the gith were pushed out.

Good job Blackwheel company.
I’m not a big Eberron gal; but as a Planescape fan I know that even the most distant alternate cosmologies and isolated multiverses have paths that connect them to the larger whole

[Corsair14]

LOL FR plane hoppers in Dark Sun, you can check in but can never leave. They show up in their armor and gear and immediately become exhausted. They probably are far from any civilization and die of thirst on day 2 before they even get a chance to meet the happy residents of the world. Some enterprising elf finds their gear, laughs at the metal armor, takes the weapons and melts the armor down and becomes a wealthy member of the nobility. The end of the FR plane hoppers.

Novels are what they push. Authors don't just write a novel about a world on their own and let the world owner publish it. That's why there is so much fan-fic out there that is quite good but unpublished nor will it ever be. The company has an idea for an novel to promote their IP world and it finds an author it wants to write about it. At least that's how Disney does it for the SW universe and I imagine most companies do. I read a bit on Salvatore and his early writings for FR and while it was less constrained by rules at the time, he was still having to stay within the bounds. If I remember right, Drizz't was not at all the same character he was before the editors said "no, do it again". Even then Drizz't has had massive approved changes over the years. Anyone who read the original books before the dark elf trilogy knows its a completely different character with the same name when Homeland came out. I know a few authors in some different circles who own their own world and they let their friends/authors write in them as well with supervision. So the reason there are massive amount of drivel about the FR world is because that is what Wizards is paying authors to write about. They could easily push another world if they so chose to do so. There are plenty of fantasy writers out there happy to take the work. But FR is what they are telling their people to do.

[Mikal]

I hope not. Would much rather have Spelljammer.

[Anonymouswizard]

Because some of those settings seemed to fall pretty flat after investing some money’s hoping they would catch on, and didn’t. I’m thinking of things like Al’qadim, and in our local shops in California not a lot seemed into spelljammer-birthright-greyhawk-planescape-oriental adventures. Also a lot of the modules were there own places not necessarily belonging to any specific setting, that’s not the case anymore.

But I'm not talking about those settings, I'm talking about a new flagship (like the Nentir Vale was) or going near-settingless as 3.5 and in many ways the 'unsettinged' 2e books did.

Plus more diverse settings would be good, boredom with this style of fantasy is what drove me to try other systems.

[War_lord]

The problem is less that they're not bringing back setting X, it's that they're not using any of the settings they have access to (except now one FR sub-setting, but only one).

Because it makes no commercial sense to do so, and ironically your attempts to criticize that are only highlighting why it's a sensible strategy.


It's that I've been wanting to support 5e (a bit on and off), and my only options is to buy books for a setting that by this point I'm burningly indifferent towards. I used to passively dislike it, in the sense that I'm willing to nick a few of the pieces and would leave the rest, but WotC trying to push it down my throat has made me passionately not care about it. Because I don't actually dislike it anymore, I'd never run in it but I'd try a game set in the Realms if offered, but the mere mention of them as part of a book premise immediately makes me uninterested.

Your lost business isn't actually statistically significant, for reasons I'm about to go into.


Old monster books were like the monster manual, giving a fairly generic bit of fluff that was easily mutable in it's specifics. If you wanted more fluff, well you bought a book for a setting that discussed that region. Sure, there was a lot of crunch-fluff crossover in order to sell books, but before 5e I was never told that a book styled after a particular setting was a generic book.

And that was great for the consumer. Unfortunately it was bad for the company, because every setting required its own setting book, its own players guide and its own monster manual. And I would bet my shirt most DMs and players only bought material for their favorite setting, splitting the playerbase into factions. For every new setting the company would be adding to the workload and the publishing costs.


Not that I'm against trying to do a single setting edition of D&D, BECM was a good edition and only had one setting (Mystara, which had the inside of the planet as a bonus). The Hollow World box brings back memories of when I first saw it, with it's rules for Warrior Elves (a mindblower for 10-12 year old me, who had only seen how BECM handled races) and character cultures, I wish we were getting more books like that, which felt like they were adding to the game instead of 'here's more FR stuff because it's our most popular setting'. Let's bring back more fun books, with hollow worlds to explore and gnomes in space!

They're not going to do that, because that would be niche setting, and it's not going to move enough books to justify the work going into it.


The problem with settings is that everyone have his favorite. Forgotten Realms has long history and is probably the most well known of them, it's also generic enough that adventure can be move to other setting without too much trouble.

Since Wizards only produce 3 or 4 books a year, it's unlikely that they will revisit other setting either. Planescape is possibly the more likely since travelling to other planes is something for higher level character to do.

Since psionics where introduce again in UA, and left out of Xanathar's guide, it's likely to be in a new book in 2018.

This guy gets it. 5e's publishing schedule is not compatible with product bloat.


Time for a theory of mine.

People would be less annoyed if they were concentrating on a new setting instead of an established one.

The annoyed people are a tiny segment of the total playerbase. Maybe by the time 6th edition rolls around FR fatigue will actually effect enough of the population for WoTC to consider a new setting. FR was chosen BECAUSE it is established, not only on Tabletop, but with a multimedia empire, meaning that 1. if a prospective customer has any prior knowledge, it's probably FR related and 2. there's a financial interest in making sure that new players get invested in that one setting, because they're more likely to buy books and video games and whaterever else is put out.


The first part is that a new setting would honestly need more support than an old setting. There's already five thousand metric tonnes of fluff for Forgotten Realms, it doesn't need new material written about it, but a new setting about the Broccoli Valley would obviously be a bit fluff light and could be expanded upon without annoying fanboys (*cough* spellplague).

The second is that the Forgotten Realms already have a hatedom (I used to be a part of it), partially because of the metric tonnes of fluff.


Honestly, I believe there's been multiple settings for D&D since 1e, I don't get why WotC is pushing the FR so hard this edition, publishing books for one setting but not any of the others was only a recipe for resentment. If they'd just used FR fluff like they'd used GH stuff in 3.X I think people would be much happier.

A new setting would have to build a new player base. Nentir Vale was an attempt to build a new default setting, but had the misfortune to be poisoned by association with 4th edition. FR has a strong built in following. The resentment of a tiny portion of the playerbase doesn't really count for much against the list of good reasons to focus on one official setting. So long as they don't try to codify it to the point that FR becomes the core setting, I don't really care.

[Regitnui]

War Lord, they may as well have codified FR as the default setting. The Human entry in the PHB specifically calls out Faerun nationalities rather than a more setting-neutral method of listing a random selection or the 3e PHB's method of basically saying "you're all humans, you know how humans are named".


I’m not a big Eberron gal; but as a Planescape fan I know that even the most distant alternate cosmologies and isolated multiverses have paths that connect them to the larger whole

I came up with this, so don't take it as canon. Personally I think that the plane of peace, Syrania, is where planar immigrants to Eberron end up. They're unable to think about fighting, the plane is ruled by angel philosophers, and while there's ways to get to the Eberron Material, the will of the Primordial Dragons makes it difficult (as in DC 30+ or questline) to get there unless you came from there already.

Though I wouldn't be against the World Serpent Inn or Endless Staircase letting the counterparts of races that already exist in Eberron (the standard races, Volo's monsters and maybe aasimar) through fairly easily. I'd accept a plane-trapped character into an Eberron campaign, provided that they accept the end of their character's story will be the choice to go home or stay. No trips to Sigil or other settings.

[War_lord]

They used FR ethnicity names because there's no other way to get across concepts like "fantasy not-chinese names" without awkwardness. You couldn't release a book called "Oriental adventures" in 201X for much the same reason.

[Legendairy]

They used FR ethnicity names because there's no other way to get across concepts like "fantasy not-chinese names" without awkwardness. You couldn't release a book called "Oriental adventures" in 201X for much the same reason.

Couldn’t they tho? I mean it isn’t breaching any social etiquette to say typical Chinese names or typical Japanese names instead of say Kura-tur. Same with Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic names.

[Regitnui]

They used FR ethnicity names because there's no other way to get across concepts like "fantasy not-chinese names" without awkwardness. You couldn't release a book called "Oriental adventures" in 201X for much the same reason.

The baby name sites haven't gone anywhere. It would have been incredibly easy to make a 3e statement like; "Humans have an incredible variety in names, including many nationalities and cultures. Some even name their children after elves or dwarves, though the names may be pronounced incorrectly. As such, there is no "typical" human name." Instead we got a page and a half of Faerun nationalities that mean nothing to people. What's a Chondathan and which real-world nationality does it relate to? To put the final nail in the coffin of that argument, XGtE shows WotC realised how pointless it was, and so published a list of names explicitly tied to real-world nationalities.

[Anonymouswizard]

Because it makes no commercial sense to do so, and ironically your attempts to criticize that are only highlighting why it's a sensible strategy.

Eh, that comment was rushed, basically I'm just mad that the setting I have the least feelings for is the one that made the cut. FR just seems so intentionally generic to me now, if they'd gone with a setting that changed some stuff from what I'm used to when somebody says D&D I'd at least be happy because they tried something new.


Your lost business isn't actually statistically significant, for reasons I'm about to go into.

Never said it was, heck I suspect the lost business of everybody who thinks like me is statistic significant. Heck, I can't really be asked to complain at WotC because I've got lots of other games to play with default settings I like, I'll play one of them instead.


And that was great for the consumer. Unfortunately it was bad for the company, because every setting required its own setting book, its own players guide and its own monster manual. And I would bet my shirt most DMs and players only bought material for their favorite setting, splitting the playerbase into factions. For every new setting the company would be adding to the workload and the publishing costs.

Well sure, which is why I've previously suggested picking some of the popular settings, releasing a book with rules conversions, and then letting people play with the old fluff. But I'm not a member of the WotC team, so I have no say in what they do, and honestly I have no real idea about what would be profitable.


They're not going to do that, because that would be niche setting, and it's not going to move enough books to justify the work going into it.

It's just grating, D&D feels too safe to me these days. Remember when you could travel to the inside of the planet to fight dinosaur riding Romans? Fly to the edge of the system to fight the scro and gnomes trying to turn part of the crystal sphere into a second sun? Adventure in a ruined world where everything is trying to kill you? None of these would require a setting book as previously thought about, you could do them as an adventure (like Curse of Strahd). Ravenloft is at least in theory as niche as hollow earth mamoth riding aztecs (although we might need a different Hollow World culture if what I can work out about ToA is correct), but the former got an adventure.

My problem is essentially, D&D is too D&D. Instead of trying to be fun and trying out some new things, I see the same fluff over and over again.


This guy gets it. 5e's publishing schedule is not compatible with product bloat.

Sure, I get it. I'm planning to see if I can get a copy of Ehdrigohr from a family member for Christmas, Native American fantasy using Fate sounds right up my street. The last game I ran was Fate (didn't go as well as I would have liked due to introducing the system in a one-shot in a setting that I ran as a compromise), the next one I have planned for when I get a new group is Fate, I've got enough Fate planned that I honestly only take down my PhB to reference during forum discussions. Fate has loads of minisettings I can use as the base for games, so I find it tends to be a better bet for me.


The annoyed people are a tiny segment of the total playerbase. Maybe by the time 6th edition rolls around FR fatigue will actually effect enough of the population for WoTC to consider a new setting. FR was chosen BECAUSE it is established, not only on Tabletop, but with a multimedia empire, meaning that 1. if a prospective customer has any prior knowledge, it's probably FR related and 2. there's a financial interest in making sure that new players get invested in that one setting, because they're more likely to buy books and video games and whaterever else is put out.

All true. Oh well, as it is I've voted with my wallet, that's about as much as I can reasonably do, if other customers don't care they don't care.


A new setting would have to build a new player base. Nentir Vale was an attempt to build a new default setting, but had the misfortune to be poisoned by association with 4th edition. FR has a strong built in following. The resentment of a tiny portion of the playerbase doesn't really count for much against the list of good reasons to focus on one official setting. So long as they don't try to codify it to the point that FR becomes the core setting, I don't really care.

Still don't get why we couldn't have continues with the Nentir Vale, it had some good stuff, and felt like a decent continuation of 3.X's 'vary light Greyhawk default'. But then again people keep telling me that I can't turn the sacred cows into hamburgers.

Honestly, if they'd kept the rule books the same as the PhB, relatively light on fluff so we could justify the purpose even if we never use FR fluff it could have been great. I hear that Xanthar's Guide to Anything is like this though, I might have a read if a friend gets a copy to check.


They used FR ethnicity names because there's no other way to get across concepts like "fantasy not-chinese names" without awkwardness. You couldn't release a book called "Oriental adventures" in 201X for much the same reason.

Eh, human names tend to be similar to real world names from various cultures, depending on the region. Boom, done, I can go and eat some pie instead of trying to work out what kind of Fantasy Counterpart Culture (add your own TVTropes link if you must) Narwhither refers to.

[War_lord]

Eh, that comment was rushed, basically I'm just mad that the setting I have the least feelings for is the one that made the cut. FR just seems so intentionally generic to me now, if they'd gone with a setting that changed some stuff from what I'm used to when somebody says D&D I'd at least be happy because they tried something new.

It seems generic to you. To someone who's new to D&D it's not generic, because they haven't been exposed to it for a decade or whatever. And then of course some people actually like the Forgotten Realms. I don't, but I think there's elements of it I can work with for my own setting, which is what a default setting should be. If Eberron was the default setting that would be far more damaging to anyone who didn't want to play in that setting then FR is, because Eberron is its own thing.


It's just grating, D&D feels too safe to me these days. Remember when you could travel to the inside of the planet to fight dinosaur riding Romans? Fly to the edge of the system to fight the scro and gnomes trying to turn part of the crystal sphere into a second sun? Adventure in a ruined world where everything is trying to kill you? None of these would require a setting book as previously thought about, you could do them as an adventure (like Curse of Strahd). Ravenloft is at least in theory as niche as hollow earth mamoth riding aztecs (although we might need a different Hollow World culture if what I can work out about ToA is correct), but the former got an adventure.

Feels too safe to you. You might want to consider that perhaps you've just burned out on D&D entirely? As for the adventure thing, they probably will, now that ToA has placed the multiverse concept front and center.


My problem is essentially, D&D is too D&D. Instead of trying to be fun and trying out some new things, I see the same fluff over and over again.

People like the fluff. That's D&D. If somebody doesn't like D&D there's plenty of fantasy systems that don't make the world assumptions D&D does.


Still don't get why we couldn't have continues with the Nentir Vale, it had some good stuff, and felt like a decent continuation of 3.X's 'vary light Greyhawk default'. But then again people keep telling me that I can't turn the sacred cows into hamburgers.

Because it was part of 4e, and anything connected to 4e excites a vicious reaction in a large section of the D&D community. 5e plays it super safe in terms of lore because one of the goals of the thing was to win back older players after the great exodus of the diehard 3.5 crowd to Pathfinder. From what I'm read second hand NV did have some good ideas to fix longstanding problems in D&D (such as Gnomes), and I kind of like their alignment system better then the classic version. But it all got thrown in the trash due to the 4e backlash.

[Regitnui]

Back on topic, I can certainly see a "Tales at the World Serpent Inn" adventure book that revives classic adventures from non-FR settings without trying to force them in, like the Forgotten Forge for Eberron. Admittedly, I'm horrible at the 2e settings. Anyone willing to suggest weirder adventures from those days, like Beyond the Barrier Peaks where you explore an alien spaceship infested with Vegepygmies and alien Lizardfolk (not sure if that's the right name, but it'd also be a great inclusion in a World Serpent Inn book)

[Naanomi]

Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

A compelation redux is not a bad idea, seemed to work with the last batch of Tales from the Yawning Portal. Maybe redo the Infinite Staircase adventure path, it was Planescape but tied to Forgotten Realms as a bridge

[SharkForce]

None of those settings exist for 5e. Just because D&D once had a given setting published, doesn't mean they have to continue supporting that product years later. It's a book about D&D monsters, not a book for a specific setting. Where it contradictions deprecated information it replaces it. The alternative would be whole books of just monster stat blocks with no attached lore, because anything else would upset *someone*. If you don't like the fluff, you don't have to use it, and can replace it with whatever you like, they don't have to give specific instructions. I mean, the PHB specifically mentions Orcs and Grummish, is the PHB a FR setting book?

There's nothing in Volo's guide that I dislike to the degree I loath something like the PHB Gnome fluff that describes them all as essentially joke characters. That's way more intrusive on my game and my home setting than failing to reference trivia from unsupported settings with limited playerbases.

those settings do exist in 5e. they're mentioned in the core books. characters from krynn, spells named after characters from greyhawk, etc. it isn't like they get massive development, but they're present.

and the fact that they redid some monsters in volo's to cover specifically how they are in the forgotten realms (and nowhere else) makes that as clear as could possibly be. it is a realms book. yes, the realms are bland and generic enough that sometimes you can steal stuff from them for other places. no, that doesn't mean a book about monsters in the forgotten realms is somehow not a book about monsters in the forgotten realms.

[Legendairy]

The modules are kind of in the same vein to an extent. Princes of the apocalypse is kind of a return to temple of elemental evil, that was greyhawk tho, it was put into the sword coast I believe. Also similar with the ToA as it is a spin on tomb of horrors, evil lick and all, that was also NOT in Chult.

[Anonymouswizard]

The modules are kind of in the same vein to an extent. Princes of the apocalypse is kind of a return to temple of elemental evil, that was greyhawk tho, it was put into the sword coast I believe. Also similar with the ToA as it is a spin on tomb of horrors, evil lick and all, that was also NOT in Chult.

I said it once and I'll say it again:

Other settings will return once they can be shoved into the Forgotten Realms. Look forward to seeing Eberron, the recently discovered continent*.

It's actually kind of a shame, I really want to get into Eberron but don't own 3.5 or 4e anymore.

* Yes, I know Eberron takes place on multiple continents, that's the point.

[Legendairy]

I said it once and I'll say it again:

Other settings will return once they can be shoved into the Forgotten Realms. Look forward to seeing Eberron, the recently discovered continent*.

It's actually kind of a shame, I really want to get into Eberron but don't own 3.5 or 4e anymore.

* Yes, I know Eberron takes place on multiple continents, that's the point.

Google my friend, there are large swaths of people who have converted Eberron and its pretty true to the old stuff.

I understand its not Official and I agree wholeheartedly.

I wish (I know I know) that they would just put out a small box set maybe two little paperbacks and a few maps of say Dark Sun, Planescape, Eberron, Greyhawk, Dragonlance etc.... Just small booklets about the places a brief description of factions/places/monsters and they can refer to the PHB/DMG/MM so they don't have to be all inclusive. I mean that's how they branched in the first place. I doubt it would cost too much and I do not think any would be a true enough flop that WotC would be in the red for any quarter.

[RazDelacroix]

Google my friend, there are large swaths of people who have converted Eberron and its pretty true to the old stuff.

I understand its not Official and I agree wholeheartedly.

I wish (I know I know) that they would just put out a small box set maybe two little paperbacks and a few maps of say Dark Sun, Planescape, Eberron, Greyhawk, Dragonlance etc.... Just small booklets about the places a brief description of factions/places/monsters and they can refer to the PHB/DMG/MM so they don't have to be all inclusive. I mean that's how they branched in the first place. I doubt it would cost too much and I do not think any would be a true enough flop that WotC would be in the red for any quarter.

And if not in hardback/softback/get-my-grubby-mitts-on-em format, perchance a series of online articles!

[Anonymouswizard]

Boxed sets are expensive, but taking the fluff and art from the old ones, worrying updates mechanics, and adding in a map shouldn't be too hard.

Of course, I wouldn't be complaining so much if they just let these settings be used on DM'sGuild (is it still FR and Ravenloft only), people can't even effectively publicise free rules conversions in the same place as the official material, or quite new adventures that mother get people interested in all the PDFs WotC offers.

Heck, even of it was 'you can't monetise them' is like it, I've got 5e stuff outlined beyond the Advanced Combat Guide I'm working on (expanded weapon reach! Setting against a charge! Sliders for more cinematic or gritty combat!). Sure, that ACG forms the basis of a hack I'm writing as well, but the expanded rules are the important part.

[MeeposFire]

I don't even think FR is the most popular setting, its just the setting that has been shoved down our throats by the company for decades now thus its what everyone knows. I think if they suddenly halted FR and pushed Greyhawk exclusively just as hard for the next decade with novels and support, it would be the popular setting. I don't think a fringe "weird" setting would be up there popularitywise with a standard fantasy world like FR, DL or GH, but it would certainly sell in large enough numbers to make money. If I was running the show, I would have one book SCAG sized released every year each for an alternate existing setting. It could be one writer and some playtesters later on, and along with sporadic online support, theres your setting. Not a major investment in resources and would sell like hotcakes. Again though, unless there is a major change in policy at Wizards, I don't see this happening for any setting. Hell, I just want setting specific archetypes and perhaps back grounds, basically the hard rules, the fluff is already all over the place. I have all of spelljammer and Dark Sun on my phone. The fluff is the easy part.

Actually old TSR did try to push other settings numerous times. They tried out different settings as the default and certainly tried different settings for novels and other things like video games. Unfortunately as a whole None performed anywhere near as well as FR so it gets the most love. IN addition TSR at the end learned the hard way that having a bunch of settings at once was bad for business since it splits up the player base and increases costs so if that lesson is learned then WotC is not going to print a bunch of settings as it will eventually be bad for business.

Even in 3e where Greyhawk was the supposed default what was most of the books geared towards? FR and later Eberron.

Really look at the novels and computer games. Even back in TSR's days when FR was just one of many and they pushed all of their settings with novel tie ins and would try to get computer games and the like for them FR would eventually outsell them all. I think the history very much suggests that FR works very well for WotC (and TSR before it) bottom line.

[Corsair14]

No I meant current Wizards. I was around for the multiple settings for TSR and they got a bunch of my money back in the day. Like I said, a single SCAG sized setting book once a year would appease everyone clamoring for a setting outside the Forgettable Realms and would not be a massive resource sink for Wizards. Each would sell as well or better than these adventure path books with no problem. Realistically the only things needed are the setting specific archetypes, back grounds, and items. They could in theory put them all in one tome. Leave the major fluff for DMs and PCs to research online since its all out there anyway either free or on DMsGuild or Drivethru.

[Legendairy]

No I meant current Wizards. I was around for the multiple settings for TSR and they got a bunch of my money back in the day. Like I said, a single SCAG sized setting book once a year would appease everyone clamoring for a setting outside the Forgettable Realms and would not be a massive resource sink for Wizards. Each would sell as well or better than these adventure path books with no problem. Realistically the only things needed are the setting specific archetypes, back grounds, and items. They could in theory put them all in one tome. Leave the major fluff for DMs and PCs to research online since its all out there anyway either free or on DMsGuild or Drivethru.

As was I and if I recall we did the math on our collection and we had roughly $4500 worth in books/boxsets/modules and an additional $4000 in miniatures. And I was not getting absolutely everything but most things, I don’t think I had ANY spelljammer or red sun other than the monster compendium.

[Regitnui]

If WotC really thought a given setting was a complete write-off and was unlikely to give them even the slightest profit, they could just unlock it for DMs Guild and let the homebrewers go nuts. That is why I think they're going to do other settings eventually, just haven't decided which.


I said it once and I'll say it again:

Other settings will return once they can be shoved into the Forgotten Realms. Look forward to seeing Eberron, the recently discovered continent*.

It's actually kind of a shame, I really want to get into Eberron but don't own 3.5 or 4e anymore.

* Yes, I know Eberron takes place on multiple continents, that's the point.

I'd be able to help you get into Eberron. Though I might need a small moment for rage if they try to carve up Eberron to fit their FR fanboy vision. Like they tried to make the artificer an "item wizard" instead of "magic McGuyver".

[Legendairy]

If WotC really thought a given setting was a complete write-off and was unlikely to give them even the slightest profit, they could just unlock it for DMs Guild and let the homebrewers go nuts. That is why I think they're going to do other settings eventually, just haven't decided which.



I'd be able to help you get into Eberron. Though I might need a small moment for rage if they try to carve up Eberron to fit their FR fanboy vision. Like they tried to make the artificer an "item wizard" instead of "magic McGuyver".

I kind of understand the artificer as they went back to having items like the older editions. The artificer was and is my favorite class, it just doesn’t fit the current magical item set up in game.

[Naanomi]

In all fairness, Artificer was a Wizard-specialty before it was an Eberron thing (I think first in Player’s Option: Spells and Magic)

[SharkForce]

In all fairness, Artificer was a Wizard-specialty before it was an Eberron thing (I think first in Player’s Option: Spells and Magic)

sure, but also in all fairness, that was *never* the artificer found in eberron, and the wizard artificer was presented in the eberron UA. just because i might like, say... mint, that doesn't mean i'm going to like it if i am served teriyaki chicken and it tastes like mint.

if they had put that version into a regular UA all by itself and particularly gave it a different name, it would probably have gotten a much warmer reception (there were some things you could abuse that would have needed fixing, but overall it was not bad at all).

[Typhon]

If we are playing back in the day, I remember when witches and warlocks were available additional classes for non caster/psionic characters. Primarily in Ravenloft and fighting hags.