Advise on Improving NPCs. and Figuring out CR. 3 builds included

[Jgosse]

So I am working on a few NPCs for a new game I am thinking of running. While I have plenty of experience tinkering with Things in 3.5 it is the first time I have done so with 5E.

So I understand the basic concept of tossing on the racial stats and abilities of my selected race on to the NPC. but what if I wanted to buff it up? Example I am running a group of half dragon goblinoids that lead an army of goblinoids as the backbone of the campaign. so I am using the warlord , arch mage and war priest, but the war priest is CR 9 and the others are CR 12. if I wanted to boost the war mage to CR 12 how would I go about it? also what is the effect of giving a NPC magic items ?

[Jgosse]

STR 20 DEX 16 CON 20 INT 14 WIS 12 CHA 18

HP 260 AC 22 (+1 mithril half plate and +1 shield)

Saves STR 9 DEX 7 CON 8

Regen 10/Rd when under half health

ATK Longsword +11 DMG 1D8 + 6

Breath Weapon Line of Lightning 4d10 DEX save DC 17

Resistance to Lightning

A couple of legendary actions

and a few other abilities but nothing major .

my best guess is CR 14 maybe 15 now.



STR 10 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 20 WIS 16 CHA 16

HP 120 AC 12 (15 Mage Armor)

Saves Int 9 Wis 7

Spalcasting up to 9th level

Breath Weapon cone of Acid 6D6 DEX save DC 14

Resistance to ACID

A couple of legendary actions

and a few other abilities but nothing major .

my best guess is CR 14 maybe 15 now.

CR 13





STR 18 DEX 10 CON 16 INT 12 WIS 18 CHA 14

HP 195 AC 20 (+1 plate and +1 shield)

Saves CON 8 WIS 9

Spell casting up to 7th level spells

ATK Longsword +10 DMG 1D8 + 5

Breath Weapon cone of Acid 6D6 DEX save DC 16

Resistance to Acid


and a few other abilities but nothing major .

Maybe 12 or 13 now I am not sure

[Unoriginal]

So I am working on a few NPCs for a new game I am thinking of running. While I have plenty of experience tinkering with Things in 3.5 it is the first time I have done so with 5E.

So I understand the basic concept of tossing on the racial stats and abilities of my selected race on to the NPC. but what if I wanted to buff it up? Example I am running a group of half dragon goblinoids that lead an army of goblinoids as the backbone of the campaign. so I am using the warlord , arch mage and war priest, but the war priest is CR 9 and the others are CR 12. if I wanted to boost the war mage to CR 12 how would I go about it? also what is the effect of giving a NPC magic items ?

CR is based on HPs, AC, chances to hit, damages, and special abilities. The way it's calculated is in the DMG.

If you want to buff a NPC, just make them hit harder or more often, be harder to hit or harder to kill, or add special abilities like damage resistance, Multiattacks or Spellcasting.

In the case of the war priest, I would start by giving them the same number of HDs as the other two, or something in-between. Then adjust their magic in function.

Giving a magic item to a NPC technically has an effect on the CR due to the stats it modifies, but at higher CR it has generally little effect.

Still, for exemple, you can see that the Githzerai top dogs have +3 magic swords already included in their stats.

[Jgosse]

CR is based on HPs, AC, chances to hit, damages, and special abilities. The way it's calculated is in the DMG.

If you want to buff a NPC, just make them hit harder or more often, be harder to hit or harder to kill, or add special abilities like damage resistance, Multiattacks or Spellcasting.

In the case of the war priest, I would start by giving them the same number of HDs as the other two, or something in-between. Then adjust their magic in function.

Giving a magic item to a NPC technically has an effect on the CR due to the stats it modifies, but at higher CR it has generally little effect.

Still, for exemple, you can see that the Githzerai top dogs have +3 magic swords already included in their stats.

that's one of the strange things the WARLORD has 27 HD and the Archmage has 18 the same as the war priest.

[Rysto]

that's one of the strange things the WARLORD has 27 HD and the Archmage has 18 the same as the war priest.

Hit Dice are basically irrelevant for a 5e monster. Come up with an amount of HP you want to give the creature and work out how many HD that is later (or just skip it, for that matter. I don't believe that it ever comes up unless you're rolling their HP, and honestly once you start rolling 10+ you're probably going to land really close to average anyway)

[Unoriginal]

Well, the Archmage is a squishy wizard with big destructive spells, the Warlord is a more well-rounded fighting menace.


Hit Dice are basically irrelevant for a 5e monster. Come up with an amount of HP you want to give the creature and work out how many HD that is later (or just skip it, for that matter. I don't believe that it ever comes up unless you're rolling their HP, and honestly once you start rolling 10+ you're probably going to land really close to average anyway)

Hit Dice are relevant because which dice is used depends on the creature's size (so, say, an Ogre would have more HPs than an human, even with the same number of dice), and to see a creature's max/min HPs if you want to do easy tuning. Otherwise it's true you don't technically have to look at them for OP's issue.

[Jgosse]

Hit Dice are basically irrelevant for a 5e monster. Come up with an amount of HP you want to give the creature and work out how many HD that is later (or just skip it, for that matter. I don't believe that it ever comes up unless you're rolling their HP, and honestly once you start rolling 10+ you're probably going to land really close to average anyway)

Will the number of Hit Die have an effect on anything else ? it appears the NPCs still have proficiency and gain ASI.

[Unoriginal]

Will the number of Hit Die have an effect on anything else ? it appears the NPCs still have proficiency and gain ASI.

Well, it depends. NPCs aren't build like PCs, and while they have proficiency, it's just the score attributed to them depending on how strong they are, they didn't build characters from level 1.

Not sure what you mean by "gain ASI", though. NPCs just have the scores the writer gave them, even though they are within the humanoid limits when the being is an humanoid.

[Jgosse]

Well, it depends. NPCs aren't build like PCs, and while they have proficiency, it's just the score attributed to them depending on how strong they are, they didn't build characters from level 1.

Not sure what you mean by "gain ASI", though. NPCs just have the scores the writer gave them, even though they are within the humanoid limits when the being is an humanoid.

So what I am getting is everything is arbitrary depending what the creator wanted and there is no actual formula to follow. I just use the general guidelines in the DMG and figure out cr based on that?

[Knaight]

So what I am getting is everything is arbitrary depending what the creator wanted and there is no actual formula to follow. I just use the general guidelines in the DMG and figure out cr based on that?

Basically. For the most part you figure out the desired stats and write them down, instead of figuring out the desired stats, figuring out how to make them happen within the rules, then writing them down. There's still major exceptions to this (HD and proficiency are tied together, as just one example), but some of the middle work has been cut out.

[Jgosse]

Basically. For the most part you figure out the desired stats and write them down, instead of figuring out the desired stats, figuring out how to make them happen within the rules, then writing them down. There's still major exceptions to this (HD and proficiency are tied together, as just one example), but some of the middle work has been cut out.

OK so HD and proficiency are tied together. I didn't have any particular stats in mind I just wanted to boost the power of the war priest and understand how it works.

[Unoriginal]

Checking out the "Monster Statistic by Challenge Rating" table and the "Creating Quick Monster Stats" section from the DMG would probably help you a lot.

For exemple:

The War Priest has AC 18, HPs 117, attack bonus +7, Damage/round 20, Save DC 15.

According to the table, it gives them the HPs of a CR 4 creature, but with 18 AC they end up with a Defensive Challenge Rating of 8. 20 of damage output gives them a CR of 2, modified into 5 of Offensive Challenge rating due to the attack bonus, or into 3 due to the save bonus.

It makes the War Priest's average CR, without considering spells or the like, to be 6. It will then be altered by the War Priest's spell list, Reaction, etc.


HD and proficiency are tied together, as just one example

Nope. For NPCs, the proficiency is tied to their CR.