Help with character optimization

[rupierto97]

Hello everyone, I'm looking for help with my character, a level 6 Lawful/Neutral Dwarf Fighter in 3.5e. My stats are: str 20, dex 13, con 20, int 10, wis 13 and car 9. My feats are Power Strike, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (Dwarven Axe), Cleave, Improved Toughness, Leap Attack and Improved Sunder. It's a long term campaign using only core and complete handbooks, I want to add a bit of a punch to my character, maybe adding some multiclassing and PCing to te mix. My party also has a Wizard, a Sorcerer, a Rogue and a Bard. Suggestions about level progression, feats, tactics and if I should continue leveling in Fighter are welcome. Can you help me find something useful?

[Darrin]

You're lawful, so Barbarian 1 to pick up Pounce isn't so elegant. Lawful is also a bit of a bother for a cleric dip, so picking up the Travel Devotion could be problematic. There aren't a lot of dwarf deities with Travel. Hanseath (Races of Stone) is CN and Muamman Duathal (LG Deities 2.0) is NG. Dragon deity Io (Races of the Dragon) probably works best, or worshiping the Asgardian Pantheon (Deities & Demigods p. 167). If Cloistered Cleric is available (Unearthed Arcana/SRD), take the Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and either the Strength Devotion or Magic Domain. Cleric 1/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 10 is pretty decent. If your group plays with multiclass penalties, then Cleric 2/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 9 also works. There may be other ways to get Pounce (or move + full attack), but Travel Devotion with a cleric dip is probably the least convoluted.

For feats, Improved Bull Rush/Shock Trooper are considered "standard" for charge-based builds. I would ask about retraining or repicking Improved Sunder. It's not all that useful to begin with, and when you do get to use it, it destroys your loot.

Is PHBII available? There are some shield-related feats in there that could make a "dwarven waraxe/spiked shield" build somewhat viable.

[rupierto97]

You're lawful, so Barbarian 1 to pick up Pounce isn't so elegant. Lawful is also a bit of a bother for a cleric dip, so picking up the Travel Devotion could be problematic. There aren't a lot of dwarf deities with Travel. Hanseath (Races of Stone) is CN and Muamman Duathal (LG Deities 2.0) is NG. Dragon deity Io (Races of the Dragon) probably works best, or worshiping the Asgardian Pantheon (Deities & Demigods p. 167). If Cloistered Cleric is available (Unearthed Arcana/SRD), take the Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and either the Strength Devotion or Magic Domain. Cleric 1/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 10 is pretty decent. If your group plays with multiclass penalties, then Cleric 2/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 9 also works. There may be other ways to get Pounce (or move + full attack), but Travel Devotion with a cleric dip is probably the least convoluted.

For feats, Improved Bull Rush/Shock Trooper are considered "standard" for charge-based builds. I would ask about retraining or repicking Improved Sunder. It's not all that useful to begin with, and when you do get to use it, it destroys your loot.

Is PHBII available? There are some shield-related feats in there that could make a "dwarven waraxe/spiked shield" build somewhat viable.

This might be a bit of a problem since my DM only allows PH1, Complete Warrior, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Divine, Complete Champion, Complete Mage, Complete Arcanist, Expanded Psionic Handbook and Complete Psionic

[weckar]

You're lawful, so Barbarian 1 to pick up Pounce isn't so elegant. Lawful is also a bit of a bother for a cleric dip, so picking up the Travel Devotion could be problematic. There aren't a lot of dwarf deities with Travel. Hanseath (Races of Stone) is CN and Muamman Duathal (LG Deities 2.0) is NG. Dragon deity Io (Races of the Dragon) probably works best, or worshiping the Asgardian Pantheon (Deities & Demigods p. 167). If Cloistered Cleric is available (Unearthed Arcana/SRD), take the Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and either the Strength Devotion or Magic Domain. Cleric 1/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 10 is pretty decent. If your group plays with multiclass penalties, then Cleric 2/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 9 also works. There may be other ways to get Pounce (or move + full attack), but Travel Devotion with a cleric dip is probably the least convoluted.

For feats, Improved Bull Rush/Shock Trooper are considered "standard" for charge-based builds. I would ask about retraining or repicking Improved Sunder. It's not all that useful to begin with, and when you do get to use it, it destroys your loot.

Is PHBII available? There are some shield-related feats in there that could make a "dwarven waraxe/spiked shield" build somewhat viable.

All of this advice is for chargers. What makes you think they want to be a charger?

[Elkad]

All of this advice is for chargers. What makes you think they want to be a charger?

Because this forum pretty much assumes that if you aren't charging or tripping (and maayybee grappling), you are a failure as a melee character?

[rupierto97]

Because this forum pretty much assumes that if you aren't charging or tripping (and maayybee grappling), you are a failure as a melee character?
I wouldn't mind adding some Cleric/Paladin dips to get some buffs/heals

[Elkad]

Cleric is a solid dip. Especially considering you don't have one in the party.

Your alignment doesn't work for Paladin, and you don't have the Cha to power the save bonuses and Lay Hands anyway.

I assume right now you guys are getting by on Cure Light wands from the Bard?

[rupierto97]

Cleric is a solid dip. Especially considering you don't have one in the party.

Your alignment doesn't work for Paladin, and you don't have the Cha to power the save bonuses and Lay Hands anyway.

I assume right now you guys are getting by on Cure Light wands from the Bard?

Exactly but we're almost finished on usages. Maybe I could go for cleric dip and increase my wisdom for level 4 spells and more? Does this sound reasonable?

[Jay R]

There are two principles in conflict here.

1. Martials should never lose a step in BAB and STR progression, and
2. Every party needs a cleric.

You're the party's only melee fighter. I urge you to only take martial classes, so that you never lose a step in BAB. Dipping into cleric will also mean putting a +1 on WIS when you can, and thus retard STR growth.

Starting to take Ranger levels will give you more skill points, and eventual healing, without giving up BAB progression.

This does not inherently optimize the character, but it does optimize the party.

I'd consider sticking with the martial classes and picking up the Leadership feat, for a Cleric cohort. [I'd also go re-read the Leadership feat, ask the DM how he feels about cohorts, and listen to the forum-members who know more about this system than I do. But a cohort cleric will have more spells and healing than you will, without reducing your melee abilities (except by losing one feat).

[Nifft]

Cleric 1 / Ordained Champion 5 (from Complete Champion) seems viable, if you can adapt it for a Lawful Dwarven god who likes axes.

It's still very much a melee build, but it's got some Cleric in it now.

After that, you'd be level 12, so more Cleric PrC probably -- there are many to choose from.

[Darrin]

All of this advice is for chargers. What makes you think they want to be a charger?

Given the sourcebooks available, meatbags don't have a lot of options. He's already got Power Attack and Leap Attack, so he's already got one foot in the Charger door. Without Barbarian available for access to Pounce and Improved Trip, options for move + full attack are limited. Cleric dip to pick up Travel Devotion felt like the least painful option. Low Int means Dervish is out (can't get Combat Expertise),


This might be a bit of a problem since my DM only allows PH1, Complete Warrior, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Divine, Complete Champion, Complete Mage, Complete Arcanist, Expanded Psionic Handbook and Complete Psionic

I tried to tailor my suggestions to what you had available. I wasn't sure about PHBII.

If you want to stick with full BAB and avoid the cleric dip, then I'd suggest multiclassing into Ranger, picking up TWF/Oversized TWF for dual-wielding dwarven waraxes, and head towards Horizon Tripper. Fighter 6/Ranger 4/Horizon Tripper 10 is a decent build, and there are several Ranger ACFs that you can swap in for additional bells and whistles: Arcane Hunter, Champion of the Wild, Spiritual Connection, and Spiritual Guide.

Consecrated Harrier/Ordained Champion might be worth a look.

[Menzath]

Even though the spells will be a little behind I think pious Templar from complete divine would be a better way to get spell casting and still retain full BaB, while also getting a fantastic tank ability, mettle.
Luckily pious Templar smite is based of it's level and not your chr, and DR/- never hurt anyone. And you would still be able to fill out levels with ordained champion.