PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Replacement for Legenary Actions



demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 06:24 PM
So, I hate legendary actions. It's a good, useful concept, but the way it's handled feels like a waste. I think Tiamat is the only creature who uses them well, and I find myself saying that a lot. Whoever made Tiamat should make all of the monsters.

Not the point.

But, I think I found a good replacement to not only do legendary actions better, but also improve the power of spellcasting bbeg's.

Legendary creatures possess multiple places in the initiative. Specifically, when rolling initiative for a legendary creature, subtract 10 as many times as possible from their initiative, until they're the last creature in the initiative, or second to last creature, if they're already first in the initiative. In addition, they add their proficiency modifier to initiative, and roll initiative once for every party member, taking the highest.

They don't get two turns back-to-back. If the creature possesses spellcasting, they gain half of their spell slots again for each turn they receive, excepting their highest level slot. If they have abilities which possess a Recharge, they attempt to recharge it at the start of each turn.

Lastly, their legendary actions become normal actions if they cost 1 legendary action, actions with a recharge of 5-6 if they cost 2(Cast Spell and Cast Cantrip are ignored, as are legendary actions which simply replicate an action), and actions with a recharge of 6 if they cost 3 or more.

So, if you're running a legendary lich against a party of four, the lich would roll initiative four times, then add 10. Let's assume a 28 initiative(Yeah, it's a big number.) The party has initiatives 23, 19, 14, and 6(Because why not). The lich would act on 28, 18, and 8.

It would have 8 1st level slots, 6 2nd levels, 6 3rd levels, 6 4th levels, 6 5th levels, 2 6th levels, 2 7th levels, and 2 8th levels, and their 9th level slot. In addition, it would gain Disrupt Life with a recharge 6, and Frightening Gaze with a recharge of 5-6.

Thoughts?

GalacticAxekick
2017-11-29, 07:02 PM
You mention that you like the concept of legendary actions, but you don't like the way 5e executed it. You claim to have found a good replacement. But unless you explain (a) what you want legendary actions to do mechanically or thematically, (b) how 5e failed to do so and (c) how you've done better. This makes it hard to comment on your changes.

demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 07:45 PM
Alright. Beat by beat here;

On a mechanical basis;

First, legendary actions are weaker than normal actions, and sometimes bonus actions, that the creature performs. Since a legendary action's main purpose is to make up the difference in action economy between creature and players, a weak action simply doesn't work for this purpose. It's the equivalent of thinking that, if a wizard is the BBEG, giving the wizard an extra 2 or 3 cantrip castings will make up for 4 character's full actions(Which may include 4 full spells to the wizard's one and 3 cantrips.)

Secondly, in the few instances that it DOES work to even the action economy, it usually also presents a heavy drain on the creature's resource economy. For instance, the sphinxes both possess the ability to spend all of their legendary actions to cast one spell. If they do that every turn, they run out of spells twice as fast, and remain only half as effective as the party(In terms of the action economy.)

And thirdly, in the few instances the current system works to balance the action economy pretty well, it only applies to creatures that already kinda break the action economy. For example, Beholders, and Tiamat. Beholders already have the equivalent of 3 spells each turn, adding a few more is a very simple fix to break it a little more. Tiamat has 5 dragon breath weapons, which are handled fairly well with her legendary actions, but it still only amounts to "You can use two each turn."

On a thematic basis;

Legendary actions are generally held by things with a lot of power, with some exceptions. Very few of these legendary actions, though, actually represent that. A mighty dragon gets to flap it's wings incredibly hard, which takes 2/3rds of it's legendary-ness for that turn. A lich gets to do a weakened, necrotic fireball, basically. Even the Tarrasque only gets to run and bite things.

These do not speak to the legend or power of these creatures any more than the fact that a bird can peck you and fly away before you can do anything, because it's faster. You don't get impressed by a dragon because it pushes you and flies away. You get impressed by a dragon when it continues to claw at you, even across your turn and the next guy's turn. You get impressed at a caster when they cast three spells in one turn, then continue casting long after you're burnt out, not at them casting the same spell you did, and burning out just as quick.

And now, how I fix these things;

On a mechanical basis, this solves both the action economy problem, and the resource economy problem, pushing neither to the point that players literally can't win. On an action basis, the creature gets as many or nearly as many full turns against the party. 3 actions and 3 bonus actions, and 3 movements, for a party of 3 or 4 or 5. It nearly guarantees them a good initiative, so they can actually utilize these legendary actions. They can cast 4 spells, or 3 spells, or however many, but are still restricted to one of their highest levels, so they don't hit the party with 3 meteor swarms and call it a day. However, this also helps to solve the resource economy. Most creatures gain recharge abilities for their turns, which give them unlimited, but smaller, things to do. In addition, the bonus to spellcasting leaves them with their spell pools increasing greatly, which is it's own resource problem solved.

Then, on a thematic basis, it makes strong creatures appear strong. Dragons flying around 4 times, biting and clawing a dozen or so times, and possibly breathing multiple breath weapons, is epic and powerful. However, it gives the players windows to clean it all up, not hitting them with everything together. A lich emiting a pulse of darkness, then flying away, casting a fire ball, then rushing in with a paralyzing touch, is more powerful, and more appropriate to what the lich is supposed to be.(Even though it's an 18th level wizard because WOTC has no clue how to monster-build, but I digress.)

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 10:18 PM
This is a really awkward and clunky "fix".

What if the Lich rolls a 1 on Init? Unlikely, sure, but now they only get one action.

I've made monsters that get multiple turns, and that's baked into their CR. They're EXPLICITLY DESIGNED with that in mind. Tossing it on, in a random fashion, to existing monsters is going to WILDLY change them.

In addition, by making it reliant on Init, you completely randomize the challenge. A Lich who rolls a 4 on Init is only a third the threat as one who rolls an 18.

demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 10:23 PM
Now that's true...
Instead of rolling Init, it's CR+Dexterity for legendary creatures.
Or, maybe CR+1d10. Dunno.

But something along those lines.

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 10:25 PM
Now that's true...
Instead of rolling Init, it's CR+Dexterity for legendary creatures.
Or, maybe CR+1d10. Dunno.

But something along those lines.

Why are you futzing with Initiative so much? Look, I've designed monsters that have multiple turns-just GIVE THEM MULTIPLE TURNS. Don't tie it to a random roll.

Do note, though, this will DRASTICALLY affect the CR of pretty much any Legendary monster.

demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 10:28 PM
By "Drastically effect," you mean that they'll actually stand a chance against the level they're intended for, no?


Also, I don't particularly care what you've done. Just saying "Multiple turns" is boring. Tying it to initiative is, at least, a little more fun.

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 10:30 PM
By "Drastically effect," you mean that they'll actually stand a chance against the level they're intended for, no?

Also, I don't particularly care what you've done. Just saying "Multiple turns" is boring. Tying it to initiative is, at least, a little more fun.

If you're using CR X as a boss for a party of PCs of level X, you're not doing it right. That's an encounter they should be able to handle 2-3 of per short rest, and 6-8 over the course of a day. So yes, a singular monster standing a chance against a party of level X is more than CR X.

And why is tying it to a random roll more fun? You sometimes end up with a massively powerful foe, or one that's weaker than straight out of the Monster Manual. Why would you do that?

demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 10:36 PM
I miss the 3rd edition CR rules. No need to overthink it, CR 5 can fight a 5th level party and give them a challenge.
(Also, who fights 6-8 times in one day? I've never met a single person who takes the DMG's guidelines seriously.)

Oh no, having a variance of 1d10 is too much! The difference is so extreme! It's MAYBE one fewer turn. Besides, having it be the exact same thing every single time(That said the MM is also impossible to be lower than, because that's already the most bare-bones version of any given creature) is boring.

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 10:41 PM
I miss the 3rd edition CR rules. No need to overthink it, CR 5 can fight a 5th level party and give them a challenge.
(Also, who fights 6-8 times in one day? I've never met a single person who takes the DMG's guidelines seriously.)

Oh no, having a variance of 1d10 is too much! The difference is so extreme! It's MAYBE one fewer turn. Besides, having it be the exact same thing every single time(That said the MM is also impossible to be lower than, because that's already the most bare-bones version of any given creature) is boring.

You're removing Legendary Actions. If it only gets one turn, it's weaker.

And yes, a CR 5 monster is a challenge for a level 5 party. But it's not a boss fight-that wasn't true in 3E either.

A quick googling leads me to this explanation of 3E CR:


Challenge rating is based on a 4 person party. A single CR 1 creature is an appropriate challenge for 4 1st level PCs. They're supposed to win, but they'll have to noticeably delete their resources like spell slots and hit points. No PCs are expected to die. The PCs can face about 4 such enounters without resting.

So I don't know what you're getting at when it comes to 3E CR rules.

demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 10:56 PM
Only, you know, they AREN'T getting one. At minimum, they're getting 2, and their legendary actions are things they can do normally now. With recharge.


And... Huh. Guess I was mis-remembering. Or exaggerating in memory form... Whatever that's called.
I guess I just remember the difference between 5e's, "Absolutely no problems from equal CR" and 3e's "Some problems from equal CR" as being bigger. I mean, my bad, but that wasn't really the point. Point was I don't like 5e's nonsensical CR.

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 11:13 PM
Only, you know, they AREN'T getting one. At minimum, they're getting 2, and their legendary actions are things they can do normally now. With recharge.


And... Huh. Guess I was mis-remembering. Or exaggerating in memory form... Whatever that's called.
I guess I just remember the difference between 5e's, "Absolutely no problems from equal CR" and 3e's "Some problems from equal CR" as being bigger. I mean, my bad, but that wasn't really the point. Point was I don't like 5e's nonsensical CR.

How are they nonsensical? A party of level X is expected to be able to handle 2-3 CR X encounters per short rest, and 6-8 per long rest. As opposed to 3E, where it was 4 per rest.

And let me put it this way-your Lich absolutely FLUBS his rolls. Like, disastrously. He rolls a 2, getting a total Init value of 12. The party, meanwhile, rolls hot, and the slowest member gets a 13. The Lich then gets one turn, since he can't get back-to-back turns. Since he now lacks Legendary Actions (well, he has them, they just take away his main action) he's weaker than the bog-standard Lich from the Monster Manual. Understand now?

demonslayerelf
2017-11-29, 11:22 PM
Nonsensical as in barely any of them actually work? You tell me how an average 10th level party of 4 deals with 8 Devas in one day without cheesing the **** out of it. Likewise, try to tell me that a 20th level party can't handle at least 20 Pit Fiends in one day.
And explain why Balors and Pit Fiends suck so many balls it's not even funny, but they're some of the highest-rated baddies.


I meant with CR+1d10CR+Dex. I acknowledged the first one was bad. Don't you remember the very first thing I responded to you with?

JNAProductions
2017-11-29, 11:39 PM
Nonsensical as in barely any of them actually work? You tell me how an average 10th level party of 4 deals with 8 Devas in one day without cheesing the **** out of it. Likewise, try to tell me that a 20th level party can't handle at least 20 Pit Fiends in one day.
And explain why Balors and Pit Fiends suck so many balls it's not even funny, but they're some of the highest-rated baddies.


I meant with CR+1d10CR+Dex. I acknowledged the first one was bad. Don't you remember the very first thing I responded to you with?

Devas have 136 HP, AC 17, and deal about 25 damage per hit, with two +8 attacks per round.

A level ten party, consisting of, say, a Thief Rogue, a Champion Fighter, an Evocationist Wizard, and a Life Cleric can put out around 45 damage per round (or about one third its HP) with NO RESOURCE EXPENDITURE. Toss on Action Surges, magic items better than simply being magical, and spells, and yeah, they should be able to take on 8 Devas a day.

7.8 damage per Fighter swing, or 8.8 with GWM toggled on, for 17.6 a round.
16.9 damage per Rogue swing, for 16.9 a round.
7.15 damage per Firebolt, for 7.15 Wizard damage a round.
And about 3 damage from Sacred Flame, because the Deva resists it.

And I challenge you to make a party that can take on 20 Balors in a day, with the standard two short rests.

And as for CR 21+1d10+3, that's 25-34. It's still technically possible for the Lich to get just one turn-massively unlikely, yes, but possible. But even ignoring that, there's a good chance for it to get anywhere from 2 to 4 turns-that's a MASSIVE variability in power. Giving multiple turns to a monster that's meant to be a boss is fine-just don't make it RANDOM. That makes the CR random.

Composer99
2017-11-30, 12:34 AM
Apart from any issues JNAProductions raises, I'm curious as to why your solution to the problems you suggest exist with the current implementation of legendary actions, having pointed to an example of how they were done correctly, was to scrap them and replace them with something that is far fiddlier.

If anything, you could do a few simple tweaks for far less effort, without having to either risk screwing either your monster or the party over (depending upon its initiative roll) or resort to some weird-looking die roll for its initiative.

I'm thinking of tweaks such as:
- give monsters more legendary actions per round (the lich could get 5, say, instead of 3)
- give them more (and possibly more powerful) legendary actions
- make their useful legendary actions less costly (e.g. the lich legendary actions could all be 1 action)

All that's to say, if you want your boss monster to get more turns in a round, just give it extra turns. If you want it to have more and better legendary actions, just do that. You can even do both, which seems like a simpler implementation of what you're proposing.

Finally, as far as I can see, it's kind of part of the point that the monsters run out of spells eventually. But if you want your boss monster to have all the spells, you can either just give it more slots or give it an arcane recovery-style feature that recharges on a 6 or something.

demonslayerelf
2017-11-30, 10:05 PM
Devas have 136 HP, AC 17, and deal about 25 damage per hit, with two +8 attacks per round.

A level ten party, consisting of, say, a Thief Rogue, a Champion Fighter, an Evocationist Wizard, and a Life Cleric can put out around 45 damage per round (or about one third its HP) with NO RESOURCE EXPENDITURE. Toss on Action Surges, magic items better than simply being magical, and spells, and yeah, they should be able to take on 8 Devas a day.

7.8 damage per Fighter swing, or 8.8 with GWM toggled on, for 17.6 a round.
16.9 damage per Rogue swing, for 16.9 a round.
7.15 damage per Firebolt, for 7.15 Wizard damage a round.
And about 3 damage from Sacred Flame, because the Deva resists it.

And I challenge you to make a party that can take on 20 Balors in a day, with the standard two short rests.

On the Deva angle, you're ignoring Change Shape. That's turning into a T-Rex with angelic weapons. "In a new form, the deva retains its game statistics and ability to speak, but its AC, movement modes, Strength, Dexterity, and special senses are replaced by those of the new form, and it gains any statistics and capabilities (except class features, legendary actions, and lair actions) that the new form has but that it lacks." 51 damage per bite, 38 per tail. And while that IS lowering it's AC, it really doesn't hurt too much, since you didn't take chance to hit into account anyway. AND, if they're having trouble, they can revert back and fly away faster than anything in that party can manage, especially at 10th level.

That in mind, let's say the party all have 20 Con. It's unlikely, but sure. With average health and 20 con, they get 114 health(Fighter, 50+10+6*9), 103(Rogue, 50+8+5*9), 103(Cleric, same as before), and 92(Wizard, 50+6+4*9). That's the highest averages they can pull off, and each one dies within 2 of the Deva-Rex's turns, on average. Of course, the Wizard could be killed by ever so slightly better rolling on damage. AND, this isn't even including the idea that the Deva just picks one up and flies away with them, with a 90 foot fly speed.

8 Devas doing that, dealing with 2-3 per short rest, is easily enough to murder a party.


And on the Balor angle, 19 AC with 262 health. 59 damage per turn average, nothing legendary. 10 Fire damage to people within 5 feet, and 10 fire damage to melee attackers within 5 feet.

I'll give these heroes the benefit of the doubt too, since they're dealing with more than double what the DMG suggests. 20 Con, then 20 in their appropriate damage stat(Str, Dex, Int, Wis, respectively.) Level 19 party, as Balor is CR 19.

Fighter has 203 health(85+10+6*18), average damage 33(1d10+5, three times), Rogue has 188(85+8+5*18), average damage 48(10d6+1d4+5), Wizard has 168(85+6+4*18), average damage 20(Chill Touch, 4d8 Necro), Cleric has 188(Same as Rogue), average damage 20(Sacred Flame, 4d8). That's 121 with nothing special, and no resources expended, per turn, killing the Balor in 3 turns, on average.

Even if the Balor totally focused fire against someone, it would take at least 3 turns for anything but the Wizard(And at 19, the Wizard definitely has tricks up it's sleeves. For instance, At-Will Shield and Misty Step.) The balor has no good counter to range(And the Wizard with misty step and nothing else actually outruns the Balor), and a +14 bonus to hit. Even with the Rogue and Fighter taking some damage, the Rogue only gets 10, the Fighter gets 40 each round, they have a 19th level cleric(Healing magic is pretty easy to come by like that), and a properly informed Fighter would simply bring a longbow(Thereby avoiding any of the fire damage, and only slightly dropping damage(To 30, not 33)), and the rogue can throw Darts/Daggers for the same effect, but the same damage.

I don't even need to make a special party, just a party that isn't ignorant of the danger, or simply pick up on the fact that staying within 5 feet and attacking burns. In fact, I'm not even including subclasses, magical items that 19th level characters would have, feats, or spells that they don't have infinite of, even though this is the 9th level spell zone(Just a single 9th level spell, like Foresight or Mass Heal, could completely crush the situation, and they have 2 9th levels). And it can handle twice as many Balors as the DMG suggests.

The most dangerous thing at this point is Death Throes. Which, yes, could get some pretty nasty hits. However, The rogue takes half or nothing, so he's not really in danger. It's really only the Fighter at risk(Because the Wizard and Cleric wouldn't be within 30 feet), and even if she dies(Even though it would take the Balor attacking the fighter for 3 turns(Which isn't likely, because it doesn't have good initiative, and it dies in 3 turns anyway), then exploding, and the fighter failing the DC20 save), that still only knocks them down, and the cleric can use any healing spell to bring them back.

Here's where resource expenditure finally comes into play. A 19th level caster needs to provide healing between fights, sometimes. Not even every time, because the wizard doesn't have healing, they get to use all of their spells to pump damage. They would be fine using 2 Arcane Hands, which doubles their damage each round. This is also assuming no Prep-spells, like Simulacrum or Conjuration spells.

Is it as impressive as not doing terrible against Devas while expending nothing? no. But this is between 2.5-3.33... times more than what the DMG says. Of course, it won't be as good. They would need to use spells and things. But it's very much possible.


And if you don't like that, I have some overpowered multiclass builds. A party of 4 of them could easily handle even more Balors.


And as for CR 21+1d10+3, that's 25-34. It's still technically possible for the Lich to get just one turn-massively unlikely, yes, but possible. But even ignoring that, there's a good chance for it to get anywhere from 2 to 4 turns-that's a MASSIVE variability in power. Giving multiple turns to a monster that's meant to be a boss is fine-just don't make it RANDOM. That makes the CR random.

With all that said, this is true.
So how about this; The Legendary creature rolls initiative normally, then one additional time for every 2 characters on the PC's side. If the initiatives are back to back, lower them until it is after the next fastest character.
So, it might be; Lich, PC, Lich, PC, Lich, PC, PC, or any permutation that doesn't have 2 liches next to eachother.

demonslayerelf
2017-11-30, 10:31 PM
Apart from any issues JNAProductions raises, I'm curious as to why your solution to the problems you suggest exist with the current implementation of legendary actions, having pointed to an example of how they were done correctly, was to scrap them and replace them with something that is far fiddlier.

If anything, you could do a few simple tweaks for far less effort, without having to either risk screwing either your monster or the party over (depending upon its initiative roll) or resort to some weird-looking die roll for its initiative.

I'm thinking of tweaks such as:
- give monsters more legendary actions per round (the lich could get 5, say, instead of 3)
- give them more (and possibly more powerful) legendary actions
- make their useful legendary actions less costly (e.g. the lich legendary actions could all be 1 action)

All that's to say, if you want your boss monster to get more turns in a round, just give it extra turns. If you want it to have more and better legendary actions, just do that. You can even do both, which seems like a simpler implementation of what you're proposing.

Finally, as far as I can see, it's kind of part of the point that the monsters run out of spells eventually. But if you want your boss monster to have all the spells, you can either just give it more slots or give it an arcane recovery-style feature that recharges on a 6 or something.

Here's the thing, composer. If you have a broken clock; Sure, it might be right once or twice. But do you want to go back to that clock every time you want it to be right, open it up, take out the numbers, and put the right numbers in? Then go back to it later, put the new right numbers in, etc? Or would you rather just have a working clock, even if the numbers have like 5 modes, none of which are wrong, just that some of them look weird?

JNAProductions
2017-11-30, 10:31 PM
I did factor in hit chance. You don't get 7.8 from 2d6+5 without factoring in a hit chance, and you certainly don't see a 1 point increase from +10 damage unless you're also factoring in hit chance.

In addition, the Deva-Rex might be able to do a lot of damage, but it can't take much in return. An Action Surge plus two spell slots and a good Sneak Attack could one-round it, and it's unlikely to last more than two. Not to mention, it has no range abilities-the party might not be able to kite it, but they can tactically retreat, making it take longer to close the distance. (Plus, if it spends a round shapeshifting, that's a round spent getting beat up without doing any damage in return.)

Your math is awful. (1d10+5)*3 averages to 31.5, 10d6+1d4+5 averages to 42.5, and 4d8 averages to 19. Also, you're totally forgetting to factor in hit chance-didn't you rag ON ME for that? I don't know if I should trust anything in your post, because you've failed to perform basic math correctly.

Your latest system is getting better. It's still not a good one-you need to assign a CR to each level of Legendary, since multiple turns increases someone's power a LOT. But making it a set number of turns is a good improvement.

SodaDarwin
2017-11-30, 10:33 PM
I get what you’re trying to do here, but this is kind of the wrong way to go about it. If you like Legendary actions, but not how they’re handled, why are you scrapping them entirely instead of actually fixing them? Still, I like the effort. This is something I very frequently think of.

Significantly simpler solutions.
1) Boss type creatures roll initiative several times. They cannot go twice in a row, move any rolled initiative one step lower until it’s not consequitive. If need be, loop back around the initiative order. Yes, this means if the boss rolls horribly then it might go really early in the turn order, hence the following sollution!

2) Just give the boss initiatives baked in. Want a low level boss? Act on 20, act on 10. Ultra high power and deadly? 20, 15, 10, 5, 0. There’s no need to assign randomisation when there’s a simpler, more elegant solution. Especially when randomising it can cause such noticable issues.

Also important is how this affects turn-by-turn ailments and buffs. How would you handle ongoing damage? Stuns? If they get a buff that lasts for 5 turns, so they only get two and a half rounds of use out of it? If they’re on fire, do they take damage every turn or just on their first turn of any round?

Finally, as excessive as it may seem, there’s really no reason this can’t exist with legendary actions. But then, do they get actions back every turn or every round?

demonslayerelf
2017-12-01, 08:37 AM
I did factor in hit chance. You don't get 7.8 from 2d6+5 without factoring in a hit chance, and you certainly don't see a 1 point increase from +10 damage unless you're also factoring in hit chance.

In addition, the Deva-Rex might be able to do a lot of damage, but it can't take much in return. An Action Surge plus two spell slots and a good Sneak Attack could one-round it, and it's unlikely to last more than two. Not to mention, it has no range abilities-the party might not be able to kite it, but they can tactically retreat, making it take longer to close the distance. (Plus, if it spends a round shapeshifting, that's a round spent getting beat up without doing any damage in return.)

Your math is awful. (1d10+5)*3 averages to 31.5, 10d6+1d4+5 averages to 42.5, and 4d8 averages to 19. Also, you're totally forgetting to factor in hit chance-didn't you rag ON ME for that? I don't know if I should trust anything in your post, because you've failed to perform basic math correctly.

Your latest system is getting better. It's still not a good one-you need to assign a CR to each level of Legendary, since multiple turns increases someone's power a LOT. But making it a set number of turns is a good improvement.

Deva-Rex stays 50 feet away during the transformation, problem solved, fighter can't do anything, rogue can't gain sneak attack. Wizard and Cleric get a bit of damage, or burn good spells to get good damage, but not enough to kill.
And while an Action Surge, 2 Spell slots, and a good sneak attack, MIGHT kill it in one round(Because even that isn't quite a guarantee), how many times can you actually do that? Rogue wouldn't get sneak attack much against a Deva-Rex to begin with, unless you're casting things like Guiding Bolt(Which would lower the cleric's damage to even allow the rogue to deal damage), or using optional rules(Flanking, which we aren't, because that's not what this is about.) Action Surge could help, against one of the eight coming for your head. And only the wizard would get a few spells back, specifically 5 levels of them, with only one of the short rests. 8 Deva-Rexes are too much.

And, I didn't go through my chance-to-hit, because you didn't make any mention of it, and I didn't want to deal with going over your math, too. But, at level 19, against AC 19 Balor, with +3-to-hit magic weapon, there's a 20% chance of missing for the party, and their saving throws are DC 19, Balor has +2 to dex, meaning there's a 15% chance to not take that damage. Balor has +14, and party's AC's are very variable. Probably doesn't miss the wizard, misses on a 1-9 for Heavy-Armor Fighter/Cleric, misses 1-7 for sneaky two-dagger rogue. This is much better for the party, thanks for telling me to do this.

And on the point of damage, the actual average listed for 1d10+5 is 11, three times is 33. That one was right.
Unfortunately, my dumbass did that to all the dice, not all the separate attacks. Damage is ever so slightly different, it makes no overall difference.

SkipSandwich
2017-12-01, 09:52 AM
I have yet to find a more elegant or versatile system for designing "boss encounters" then The Angry GM's Paragon monster rules.
TL;dr Paragon monsters have multiple pools of hit points and one set of actions per hit point pool losing (or gaining!) actions as each pool is depleted. To drasticly oversimplify they are basically all the mechanical capabilities of a group of monsters squeezed into a single monster.

Basic idea http://theangrygm.com/return-of-the-son-of-the-dd-boss-fight-now-in-5e/

Bosses that change form and tactics as the fight progresses
http://theangrygm.com/elemental-boogaloo/

Splitting, Combining and duplicating monsters
http://theangrygm.com/oh-no-more-bosses-oozes-slimes-and-a-duplicating-wizard/

also, in a related vein, he also came up with a remarkably simple way of handling called shots and locational damage.
http://theangrygm.com/dungeons-and-dragons-and-dismemberment/