Optimize: The Diviner Soradin

[sithlordnergal]

So, I was recently playing some D&D and I finally was in a party with a Portent Wizard while playing my Soradin. Thanks to their portents, the Wizard was able to Paralyze an enemy by forcing them to fail a saving throw. This allowed me to Crit Smite for absolutly massive damage.

After the game, I had a thought: "Could I make a build that would allow me the nova power of a Soradin and the possible controling power of a Divination Wizard? That way I wouldn't have to hope for a Divination Wizard in the party." After thinking a bit I realized "Yes, I could. But only with a lot of forethought."

So, with that in mind I came up with three possible builds. Note that the character has to be AL Legal. So I have to use Point Buy, and my +1 will be SCAG for the cantrips.

Also, I know this build will be very MAD, I knew that going in. As such, I only plan on getting a 16 strength at best, and leaving Intelligence at 13. My first ASI will be spent either on a Charisma increase or Warcaster, I am unsure which so far. Also, my Wizard spells will only be ones that do not require my casting ability mod. Spells like Shield, Feather Fall, or Magic Missile. Though I am always happy to have more suggestions for spells that do not require your casting stat.

Last but not least, I intend to go Paladin 6 / Divination Wizard 2 / Sorcerer X. That will net me Extra Attack, the Cha aura, and Portents. I am unsure which Paladin subclass to take. I am leaning towards Vengence, but I am open to suggestions.

With all of that out of the way, here are my possible builds:


--Ability Scores--
Str: 14
Dex: 8
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

Feat: Sentinal

This is probably the least optimized path Ability score wise. So, why bother with it? And why take Sentinal? Because my DM uses disengage as much as the party rogue. Don't get me wrong, your average Zombie, Ghoul, or Skeleton won't disengage. But Orcs, Goblins, Dragons, Bandits...basically anything with a higher Intelligence or Wisdom then the average animal will disengage if things start going poorly.

This leads to interesting combat scenarios, because most enemies aren't just standing around to be smacked. It makes combat fun, interesting, and engaging. But it can also lead to the party running around in a circle for an hour and a half trying to kill one young white dragon that uses it's breath weapon, then disengages and hides out of reach and sight until it rechages and comes out to breathe again. Sentinal fixes this, and has come to be one of my favorite feats next to Warcaster.


---Ability Scores---
Str: 14
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

This is the build with the best ability scores. The +1 to every ability really helps to mitigate the MADness of this particular build, and allows me to avoid having a true dump stat. Sure, Dex is at 10, but that is better then having a negative Dex mod. It is a bit bland, but it is very servicable.


---Ability Scores---
Str: 14
Dex: 9
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

This is somewhat similar to the Human build. Only instead of a 10 Dex, I have a 9 Dex in exchange for the Half Elf racial abilities, and those aren't things to scoff at.

EDIT: I also know this build puts off Sorcerer levels, which puts off Sorcery Points. That said, my Soradin was an Oath of the Ancients, and I went up to 8 Paladin before I multiclassed in Sorcerer. I would be starting my Sorcerer levels at about the same time as my other Soradin, and my two Wizard levels would ultimatly increase my total number of spell slots due to how multiclass casters work.

[PeteNutButter]

I feel like the only way to make this viable is a stat boosting item such as gauntlets of ogre power. That shouldn’t be hard to get in AL, but it makes a world of difference. Leaving str at 13 makes the whole thing work a bit.

Otherwise you lose too much for a chance to do something cool up to 2 times a day.

Even with that it’s still pretty clunky. This isn’t even coming online until level 11 at the earliest, far past when a random humanoid that can fail a wisdom save is really worth putting that much attention into. Like the idea, but probably not worth it.

[LeonBH]

You don't really need Portent (though it's really useful). It was the Hold Person spell that did the work. You just need a full caster to help you out, not necessarily a Div Wizard.

You can use Heightened Spell to replace Portent. In this case, you won't need to branch off to a third class. And if you went with Wild Mage, their level 6 ability can undercut any save. A Heightened Spell and Bend Luck combination is an effective -7.5 penalty to a save on average (though it costs you 5 Sorc Points).

I agree with Pete. You will be hurting for more effectiveness with this build.

[DarkKnightJin]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did that dragon in your Sentinel example have some Rogue levels?
Because I'm fairly sure using their Breath Weapon is an Action to do(could be wrong), leaving them with a Bonus Action. Which a non-Rogue can't use to Disengage.

Your DM might have been fudging some things there.

That's not so say Sentinel isn't great for being sticky anyways. Disengage still pops OA, and they gotta stay put for the rest of the turn.

[The_Jette]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did that dragon in your Sentinel example have some Rogue levels?
Because I'm fairly sure using their Breath Weapon is an Action to do(could be wrong), leaving them with a Bonus Action. Which a non-Rogue can't use to Disengage.

Your DM might have been fudging some things there.

That's not so say Sentinel isn't great for being sticky anyways. Disengage still pops OA, and they gotta stay put for the rest of the turn.

The dragon might have had some Legendary points, even if just one, that lets it use disengage, or wing attack. And, it just used it for the disengage in order to stay safer.

[sithlordnergal]

So, I did not think about the Bend Luck and Heighten Spell parts. That would certainly work with saving trying to force saving throw fails. I'd have to give uo Twinned Spell of course, but that isn't an issue.

And for Dark Knight. The dragon didn't have Rogue levels, what it did have were two ledges that you had to climb up in order to reach it on two sides of a hall.

We were fighting the dragon in a giant sancutary or temple, not sure which it was. There were two ledges you could climb up to and walk on with pillars on the two sides of the hallway we were in. Since it was built for giants the hallway was about 30ft across. The dragon spent the fight hiding on the ledges out of sight and using it's breath weapon on us. If one of us managed to actually reach it, it simply disengaged and flew to the other ledge and hid behind a pillar to avoid being shot.

Since it had managed to kill the only ranged fighter in the party, the rest of us had to chase the dang thing around the hallway in a circle.