A couple Kineticist Questions

[thecrimsondawn]

Looking at some 3pp stuff here too, but this is mostly defense wild talent related.

So, all of the defense talents are worded in such a way "By accepting 1 point of burn, you can increase the X until the next time your burn is removed" Since none of these call out "this talent", the talents name, or in any way references the talent itself, can it be assumed that it just gets a running buff based off the total burn you have as your class? Burn is already a vastly dangerous debuff on yourself, so its within reason to think it was intended this way, but wanted some other opinions on it.

Second question - I think its in Legendary Kineticists 1 and 2 that they feature Battle Burn - a type of improve limited buffer, but limits the duration of any wild talents you use it with to a max of 5 minutes. Would this count as accepting burn for the secondary effect of the defense wild talents?

[KillianHawkeye]

So, all of the defense talents are worded in such a way "By accepting 1 point of burn, you can increase the X until the next time your burn is removed" Since none of these call out "this talent", the talents name, or in any way references the talent itself, can it be assumed that it just gets a running buff based off the total burn you have as your class? Burn is already a vastly dangerous debuff on yourself, so its within reason to think it was intended this way, but wanted some other opinions on it.

The way I read that is that you have the option to take a point of burn specifically to empower the effects of your defense wild talent. Otherwise, I imagine it would use language similar to what the Elemental Overflow class feature has (i.e., "whenever she has at least X points of burn, ...") if they were meant to operate that way whenever you accumulated burn from any source.

Also, I don't think burn is as bad as you're imagining. At least, not if you've got a decent Con score.

[thecrimsondawn]

The way I read that is that you have the option to take a point of burn specifically to empower the effects of your defense wild talent. Otherwise, I imagine it would use language similar to what the Elemental Overflow class feature has (i.e., "whenever she has at least X points of burn, ...") if they were meant to operate that way whenever you accumulated burn from any source.

Also, I don't think burn is as bad as you're imagining. At least, not if you've got a decent Con score.

1 point of burn is not that big a deal. However many late game class features require 5 or more points of burn to truly start to come into their own. Take that into account that many late game utility talents cost several points of burn that gather power cant reduce, you are left with no choice but to take it. Assuming lv10 with max hp per level and an 18 con score, you are looking at 120 hp. Entering combat with 5 points of burn is 50 non lethal damage off of that at that level, bringing your hp total down to 70. A fireball at lv10 averages out at 30 damage but can roll as high as 60, and this is not counting metamagic. A rogue by lv10 would have around 4 attacks, each one averaging out at 17+ damage on the low end, with good rolls and stats being in the upper 20's to lower 30s per hit. Even a 2 handed fighter or barbarian can swing for around 2d6+15 or so per hit at that level or more.

My point here is burn is a very serious drawback, and while of course you dont want to be in melee combat with (most) Kinetic builds, it will happen, and already being one foot in the grave is asking to be one turn KO'd. I cant even imagine what playing a Kineticist would be like without max hp per level.

Edit: of course, this is also why so many archetype change how burn works.

[torrasque666]

1 point of burn is not that big a deal. However many late game class features require 5 or more points of burn to truly start to come into their own. Take that into account that many late game utility talents cost several points of burn that gather power cant reduce, you are left with no choice but to take it. Uh... did you make sure to look at the Burn value and not the Level value? Because other than a few special cases, the most burn a utility talent costs is 2. Most utility talents don't cost burn at all, probably because you can't reduce it instead of in spite of it.

And at level 10 you shouldn't have an 18 CON, it should be higher. Probably at least a 22 CON, unless you were cursed with a low point-buy/bad rolls/-CON race.

[KillianHawkeye]

My point here is burn is a very serious drawback, and while of course you dont want to be in melee combat with (most) Kinetic builds, it will happen, and already being one foot in the grave is asking to be one turn KO'd.

But you don't actually have one foot in the grave. Since burn stacks you with a bunch of nonlethal damage, what you actually end up with is a really big buffer zone between getting knocked out and actually being in danger of dying.

Sure, getting knocked out during combat isn't good, and it can lead to trouble if you're in a battle that your group might not win, but you're kind of over-exaggerating the danger level a little.

If you're so worried about it, play a Halfling or other easily carried race so your friends can take you with them when they have to run away.


EDIT: But instead of commenting on my off-hand remark about the relative consequences of accumulating burn (or lack thereof), I'm curious why you ignored my answer to your main question. Sorry for (apparently) going off topic by saying that burn isn't that bad.