Building the most broken DPS

[Amdy_vill]

So this was an idea that crossed my mind. when 5e first came out i herd about broken multi class build. with the new Xanathar's guide book i was thinking we could try this again see how much damage we could do consistently. everything will be allowed(Core, supplements and UA)

Edit:most: the longer you can deal massive damage the better. we will assume you hit 50% of the time

[Naanomi]

Get as many minions as you can and have them attack. Just a question of how to get the most... Necromancer? Warlock/Necromancer? Tiny servants?

[Amdy_vill]

Get as many minions as you can and have them attack. Just a question of how to get the most... Necromancer? Warlock/Necromancer? Tiny servants?

that is very smart i didn't even think about the ability to produce minions and use them to do damage.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Depends what you mean by "most." Are we talking a single nova-round? Sustained over an encounter? Over a day? Are we assuming all attacks hit? Crit?

[krugaan]

Grappling, dashing bard who drags his victims in and out of prismatic wall is my favorite.

RAINBOW DEATH!

Note: you can cross make people cross through the wall multiple times in one round.

[borg286]

What are you looking for? There is a spectrum of RAW to RAI. On one end you have absurd and unusable on any sane table, but technically possible. On the other end you end up finding you need to lay down a framework of rules to simulate a fairly average day for an average party, and still allow for both casters and fighters doing consistent damage round over round.

At this more structured end I calculated that a sorlock spending his spells and spell points wisely over the day hovered around 110% and 140% of the DPR of a standard greatsword fighter for most of his career. Mostly spending his resources on quickened scorching Ray + Eldritch blast for single targer damage, fireball for AOE. This was cheesing darkness of course. The baseline fighter was using his martial dice every encounter, and tried to trip and such.
I've not seen many go into calculations to show expected dpr

[SirGraystone]

Remember the player who can do the most damage is always the DM :biggrin:

[Amdy_vill]

Depends what you mean by "most." Are we talking a single nova-round? Sustained over an encounter? Over a day? Are we assuming all attacks hit? Crit?

most: the longer you can deal massive damage the better
we will assume you hit 50% of the time

[Lombra]

If UA is legal then there were a lore wizard/ harvest druid (I think) able to make a gazillion damage with magic missile, but I don't remember the details.

[borg286]

Are you looking for pun-pun level of absurdity, or something that is playable?
If the former then I think that tiny servant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?543146-Heart-of-The-Swarm-1000-to-2000-damage-with-a-bonus-action-(-Tiny-Servant-)&highlight=servant) and necromancy will top the list. Going beyond that would be just for the fun of seeing what more is possible with infinite time and no group to play with.

You set a hit rate, this therefore means that great weapon mastery doesn't have a penalty because I can always assume I have a 50% chance to hit. If you were to give a DC, then I'd ask what level am I building at? If I was a spellcaster and never targeted AC what saves will the monster have? How often can I rely on magical darkness? Do I have an ally for sneak attack? Each choice benefits some build over another.

[Dudewithknives]

UA Lore Wizard 3
Celestial/chain Warlock 6
Draconic Elemental 6
Winged Tiefling with flames of Phelgathos or whatever it is called.

Lore wizard to change Magic Missile to fire damage.
Lore Wizard blows another spell level to add 2d10 for a first level slot.
Celestial warlock adds CHA
Draconic adds Cha

Assuming maxed CHA by this point:

Level 1 magic missile:
3 missiles of 1d4 + 2d10 + 10 each so first level spell that can't miss for ~ 74 damage.
Cast it at higher level and just spend the 1st levels for the extra d10s to add roughly 23 damage per extra spell level.
Counterspell their shield/counterspell.
Dead people.

Edit: I did not even figure in that the D4 can not roll a 1 due to FoP, take elemental adept as well if you want.
Also with FoP you are incased in protective fire each round you do it too so a little extra melee deterrent.

ALSO: As per JC other ruling based on things like this, you are not technically "attacking" the target so some buffs and things could still be working.

[Gtdead]

Damn, and I thought that Evoker wizard dealing 34 dmg with Spell Mastery Magic Missiles was already broken.

[Naanomi]

If we are ‘maxing damage’, shouldn’t Tomes have increased CHA to 30?

[Caelic]

Summoning, due to the way the action economy works, is almost always going to be the most efficient way to deal large amounts of damage.

[Gtdead]

Summoning, due to the way the action economy works, is almost always going to be the most efficient way to deal large amounts of damage.

Agreed, however keep in mind that in practice, archer summons tend to have problems with half and 3/4 cover so the damage will be lower than the theorycrafting models suggest. And that's without taking into account that they can die easily.

[Naanomi]

Af high levels, a skeleton made by a Necromancer with a short bow does 1d6+10 damage... an average of 13.5.... let’s say because of cover, they hit half as often as other attacks, so... 6.75 equivalent damage per Attack.

So, for any other damage source, divide the damage by 6.75 to get the number of stock skeletons needed to equal it. For example, that 74 damage level 1 magic missile (I’ll double it to 148 because of perfect accuracy) would be equal to just under 22 stock skeleton archers... Assuming your math estimates are sound, it would take 77 to equal a level 9 upcast super magic missle... a lot to manage, but still well within the range of a dedicated minion focused single class Necromancer

[8wGremlin]

Damn, and I thought that Evoker wizard dealing 34 dmg with Spell Mastery Magic Missiles was already broken.

how do they do that?
and spell mastery, isn't that late to the game?

[Dudewithknives]

how do they do that?
and spell mastery, isn't that late to the game?

Level 18.

Honestly the wizard level 18 ability is much better than their level 20 one.

[MaxWilson]

Af high levels, a skeleton made by a Necromancer with a short bow does 1d6+10 damage... an average of 13.5.... let’s say because of cover, they hit half as often as other attacks, so... 6.75 equivalent damage per Attack.

So, for any other damage source, divide the damage by 6.75 to get the number of stock skeletons needed to equal it. For example, that 74 damage level 1 magic missile (I’ll double it to 148 because of perfect accuracy) would be equal to just under 22 stock skeleton archers... Assuming your math estimates are sound, it would take 77 to equal a level 9 upcast super magic missle... a lot to manage, but still well within the range of a dedicated minion focused single class Necromancer

1d6 +2 (Dex) +6 (Undead Thralls) = 1d6 + 8. Where's the other +2 coming from?

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from giving dual shortswords to each skeleton and having them dual wield. (Ditto for giving them better armor.)

But really, Animate Dead is for mid-level chumps. The most efficient high-level Necromancer tactic involves Create Undead to make wights, which you then bind permanently using Geas IX and Mass Suggestion IX. Nobody wants to babysit dozens of skeletons that have to have Animate Dead cast on them daily to prevent them from going berserk. Instead, rely on the fact that wights can be charmed, that Geas is a charm effect, and that Geas IX is permanent (and permanently charms the wights, leaving them unable to attack you) while Mass Suggestion IX lasts for a year and a day (and lets you control their behavior to a great extent).

Wights are tougher, smarter, and faster at attacking than skeletons are. In every way that matters they make better soldiers than skeletons do. I'll take a platoon of 38 wights led by a Mummy Lord lieutenant (under my permanent command) that only need Mass Suggestion once a year, instead of 99 skeletons that need Animate Dead every single day and have to be babysat through simple tasks.

[krugaan]

Single target? Humanoid sized?

[Gtdead]

how do they do that?
and spell mastery, isn't that late to the game?

Potent spellcasting adds int into a single evocation damage roll. Mm is a single damage roll no matter how many missiles you make.

And yes, mastery is late game ability, however mm scales well so it's not a high level trick. It's usually worth the spellslot

[Naanomi]

Yeah I did the math wrong, damage is less per skeleton. Sorry.

Also, for your more advanced undead army, why do you have Mummy Lord leading them instead of a White Dracolich?