Stone to Mud and Elementals

[jollydm]

Hi all,

Last night our druid had a rather clever idea: we were fighting a high level druid who had wild shaped into an earth elemental. On his turn our druid asked the DM: "Can I cast stone to mud on an earth elemental?".

It was getting late at that point (and it was a cool idea) so the DM allowed it for the time being, turning the elemental and the ground around it into a puddle of mud (and killing the druid wasn't the victory condition of the encounter anyway), but I throw the question to all you DM's: what do you think? The spell doesn't specify much when it comes to targeting creatures, but what would you do if this question came up?

[Aett_Thorn]

I feel like in prior editions this used to work. I'm AFB right now, so can't see the exact wording of the spell, but if I were DM, I'd totally allow it. I'd probably have it do something like 8d8 damage to the elemental with a Con save for half damage maybe to keep itself together.

[The_Jette]

The spell specifically calls out non-magical rock is transmuted. So, I probably wouldn't allow. I'd definitely grant Inspiration for the idea, though, at the very least.

[Unoriginal]

If I were to allow it, it's effect would just to make the elemental into a mud elemental.

Stone is stone, even if turned into a soup, and there is all kind of stone in the Elemental Plane of Earth.

Nice idea, though, I would probably give the Druid a disadvantage to everything and/or an advantage for people how attack them, because the Druid would be surprised and have troubles figuring out WTF happened for a bit. But Druids are used to their bodies changing on the fly, so it wouldn't affect this Druid more than a turn.

Though I'm not sure I would allow it.

[furby076]

Unfortunately, it says non-magical (as another poster said). So it wouldn't work. This would be something the caster should no, since it is a restriction of the spell and not some anomaly of the target. Presumably, people (especially casters) realize that elementals are magical...especially druids who became elementals.

But A for effort

[the_brazenburn]

Have him turn into a puddle of mud, which then forms into five or six mud mephits with the same objective as the elemental. Maybe for laughs, you could have them turn into tiny (gnome?) druids.

[jollydm]

Have him turn into a puddle of mud, which then forms into five or six mud mephits with the same objective as the elemental. Maybe for laughs, you could have them turn into tiny (gnome?) druids.

I like the way you think. :)

Thank you for the responses guys, I appreciate it.

[Provo]

Where does it say that an elemental is magic? Does an anti magic field kill them? They are a living being, not a construct.

Sure they have obvious magical abilities, but that falls into the distinction between ambiant magic (like the life force that everybody has) and magic like spells. If the elemental isn't specifically enchanted in some way, then let the spell work. Rule 0 and all that

[xroads]

I think your GM made a good call. It was late and the idea sounded fun & cinematic. So why not? I'd probably have ruled the same way.

Going forward, I'd probably still allow the spell to effect earth elementals. But not as an instant death spell. I'd probably allow a constitution saving throw. And it would do damage comparable to a damage spell of the same spell level (I'm not sure what level "Stone to mud" is).

[Provo]

I think your GM made a good call. It was late and the idea sounded fun & cinematic. So why not? I'd probably have ruled the same way.

Going forward, I'd probably still allow the spell to effect earth elementals. But not as an instant death spell. I'd probably allow a constitution saving throw. And it would do damage comparable to a damage spell of the same spell level (I'm not sure what level "Stone to mud" is).

^Agreed! Instant death is fine when you are trying to make a decision on the fly. Going forward, damage is a good option. Alternately, you could model it after the Flesh to Stone spell (sure it is almost instant death, but it takes 3 saves).

If damage, I would make it so more damage than a different spell of the same level as this should be a particularly good option in this scenario.

[xroads]

Alternately, you could model it after the Flesh to Stone spell (sure it is almost instant death, but it takes 3 saves).


Oh yeah, I totally forgot about "Flesh to Stone". That would be a great template for the effect of "Stone to Mud" on earth elementals.

[Unoriginal]

Where does it say that an elemental is magic? Does an anti magic field kill them? They are a living being, not a construct.

Sure they have obvious magical abilities, but that falls into the distinction between ambiant magic (like the life force that everybody has) and magic like spells. If the elemental isn't specifically enchanted in some way, then let the spell work. Rule 0 and all that

Earth Elementals are spirits from the Plane of Earth that are forced to incarnate into physical stone/earth bodies by magic.

Just like any spirits of that kind, they would pop out of existance if in an anti-magic field, until the field is removed from the area they are.