So is a 15th level zealot immortal?

[The Cats]

He doesn't die or fall unconscious until his rage ends, and his rage doesn't end unless he falls unconscious so...

[Lombra]

He doesn't die or fall unconscious until his rage ends, and his rage doesn't end unless he falls unconscious so...

Rage still lasts only one minute tops.

[Legendairy]

He doesn't die or fall unconscious until his rage ends, and his rage doesn't end unless he falls unconscious so...

That’s my understanding, gotta love endless rage. Although it could be argued you can’t rage while out of combat, just odd.

[Lombra]

If you are allowed to start raging while raging tho, at level 20 you are functionally immortal until you sleep.

[The Cats]

Oh, good. He's only effectively immortal. Thank goodness.

[gloryblaze]

A character who's immortal as long as they're angry?

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/im-always-angry.jpg

[Lombra]

Oh, good. He's only effectively immortal. Thank goodness.

He is unkillable for one minute, not immortal.

Edit: not even unkillable: all you need is a level 1 sleep spell to end his life while he's at 5HPs or lower and has all the death saves failed.

[Sigreid]

Even if he does get killed it's a no cost resurrection so it's the character to be crazy with.

[Lombra]

Even if he does get killed it's a no cost resurrection so it's the character to be crazy with.

That's true, all you need is a close ally with Revivify prepared.

[The Cats]

So he's not effectively immortal. He can die. But he probably won't. But he can. And if he does there's no real cost to bring him back. But you probably won't have to bring him back. Because he probably won't die. But he's not effectively immortal.


Edit:

Even if he does get killed it's a no cost resurrection so it's the character to be crazy with.

Probably fun for a little while. Think I'd feel like I was running on cheatmode after awhile. Life and death situations aren't very exciting when the second option is greyed out.

[Unoriginal]

That's true, all you need is a close ally with Revivify prepared.

Revivify costs 300gp of diamond, so it's not a "no cost resurrection".

It's not much at lvl 15th, maybe, but you'd be surprised how adventurers can sometime have troubles finding the correct gems, depending on the adventure.

[The Cats]

Revivify costs 300gp of diamond, so it's not a "no cost resurrection".

It's not much at lvl 15th, maybe, but you'd be surprised how adventurers can sometime have troubles finding the correct gems, depending on the adventure.

Zealot 3rd level ability: Omit the material costs of resurrecting magic.

[snafuy]

Revivify costs 300gp of diamond, so it's not a "no cost resurrection".
Zealot's 3rd level ribbon negates that cost.
With even a tiny amount of healer support, Zealots are effectively immortal, unless something destroys the body.

[Unoriginal]

Thanks for correcting me. I should read this subclass in detail later.

[Mith]

Alas, you cannot get a contingency revivify to be prepared for you to not have to have a nearby cleric.

[Contrast]

That's true, all you need is a close ally with Revivify prepared.

I mean...that's true for anyone to be fair.


So he's not effectively immortal. He can die. But he probably won't. But he can. And if he does there's no real cost to bring him back. But you probably won't have to bring him back. Because he probably won't die. But he's not effectively immortal.

Edit:Probably fun for a little while. Think I'd feel like I was running on cheatmode after awhile. Life and death situations aren't very exciting when the second option is greyed out.

Being a zealot doesn't guarantee you'll survive by a long shot. Just that you'll likely be the last man standing assuming you have a rage left and the combat doesn't drag on too long.

Sleep has already been mentioned but your barbarian was already a prime target for Banishment, Maze. Hell a simple Command of 'calm' will probably do the trick or a load of other mind control effects to which the subclass does not grant protection. You're very difficult to kill with straight beat down but thats one of the things barbarians do. If that doesn't appeal, barbarian isn't the class for you.

[The Cats]

Yup you're right, when facing a spellcaster who knows one of the handful of spells that actually can kill you, and has the wherewithal (and spell slots left) to target you with them when you hit 0hp (also necessitating somehow knowing when you hit 0hp), or a TPK that's not quite close enough for you to mop up while your rage still lasts, you are definitely not guaranteed to survive. Heck, with the TPK you're not even guaranteed to come back for free!

Granted, in every OTHER situation you're effectively immortal.

I like playing barbarians. "Difficult to kill in a straight beat down" is not the same thing as "impossible to kill save for a narrow set of specific circumstances."

I don't hate the subclass. I mean, I'd never play it but I can see the appeal. But you're kidding yourself if you think those abilities grant anything less than effective immortality.

[Naanomi]

And remember that Relentless Rage (and maybe a Half-Orc Racial) are keeping you at 1HP for quite a while before that 0 is even tapped

[Arkhios]

I know, I know, I'm pedantic.

15th-20th level Zealot can still die of old age, and no amount of raging can prevent that.
Not immortal by a longshot. Just very hard to kill while raging.

[The Cats]

XD Ok I WOULD play a Zealot if he was an nonagenarian in a high-level oneshot with a Cohen vs. The Gods "The Last Hero" plot.

[War_lord]

It's cool, it actually means you can play the class as an insane Zealot who hurls themselves into danger no matter the odds, instead of as a class whose flavor says that, but is functionally at the mercy of the DM's willingness to go along with the idea.

I mean, by the time you're a level 15 character the party is drowning in revive magic and diamonds anyway, so I don't see the problem. At that level the only dangers are monsters with attacks that destroy a body at zero hitpoints or a total partywipe anyway.

[DarkKnightJin]

People keep talking about the diamonds for ressurection magic as if they apply to the Zealot..
They don't. 3rd level 'ribbon' gives the one reviving them all they need, because the spell is restoring them to life (but not undeath), so there is no material component needed.

I like to think that the Zealot at that point is in their Valhalla, telling their tales and enjoying the mood.. Amd then getting kicked out by their god, because there's more fighting and killing to be done.

[Unoriginal]

People keep talking about the diamonds for ressurection magic as if they apply to the Zealot..
They don't. 3rd level 'ribbon' gives the one reviving them all they need, because the spell is restoring them to life (but not undeath), so there is no material component needed.

I like to think that the Zealot at that point is in their Valhalla, telling their tales and enjoying the mood.. Amd then getting kicked out by their god, because there's more fighting and killing to be done.

The Zealot goes to the Valhalla's Drive-thru for an anecdote with fries.

[HermanTheWize]

Disintegrate

/thread

[The_Jette]

Disintegrate

/thread

Disintegrate a raging Barbarian? Really? That's what you're going to go with? Yeah... good luck with that.

[HermanTheWize]

Disintegrate a raging Barbarian? Really? That's what you're going to go with? Yeah... good luck with that.

See name of thread. Doesn't have to be a smart or pretty way to do it.

[Naanomi]

It will kill them if they fail their save, but won’t disintegrate them since they will use their ‘end their rage to succeed in a save’ ability; leaving a quick-resurrecting corpse to work with

[The Cats]

You're right, disintegrate would kill a zealot permanently. For a few levels until the Cleric gets True Resurrection.

Being susceptible to a single spell doesn't-y'know what just read the rest of the thread.

/nope

[nickl_2000]

Could a level 1 charm also calm a raging barbarian and have them immediately drop?


Or the BBEG can just dominate the barbarian, make him kill the low level healer, and then let him fall into a blissful death.

[Naanomi]

Could a level 1 charm also calm a raging barbarian and have them immediately drop?


Or the BBEG can just dominate the barbarian, make him kill the low level healer, and then let him fall into a blissful death.
Charm is a very weak effect in 5e, it wouldn’t stop a Rage... one could dominate a Barbarian to stop (though again they might just accept death to automatically succeed on the save anyways)

[nickl_2000]

Charm is a very weak effect in 5e, it wouldn’t stop a Rage... one could dominate a Barbarian to stop (though again they might just accept death to automatically succeed on the save anyways)

How about level 2 Calm Emotions then?

[The Cats]

Nah, that can only make him lose hostility to one creature. Barbarians are mad at the world.

[Arc_knight25]

Not a great choice for ToA

Not great since no one can be resurrected, So no primal path feature that will be useful till level 6

I feel this primal path is pretty weak in comparison to others.

Sure its nice being able to not have to worry about resurrection costs. But that doesn't seem like a big boon myself, because you want to stay alive to continue to do actions and be a useful party member. You may play a little more recklessly because of it, so long as you have a party member that can rez you.

[The Cats]

Well, you still get the extra damage from Divine Fury. But yeah, playing a class whose whole shtick is coming back from the dead in a game where no one can come back from the dead would be kinda silly.

Eh, I'm not with you there. Their other 3rd level ability still adds a good chunk to their DPS, and all the other abilities are pretty solid. There's nothing here that's actually bad or ineffective, unlike say, the Berserker that actually punishes you for using your power, or the Storm Herald that I just really can't see making much impact mechanically.

[Sigreid]

I think we may have a winner for soloing the tarrasqe though. With a very theatrical die right after slaying the monster built in.

[Lombra]

How about level 2 Calm Emotions then?

As I said above: level 1 sleep

[Sigreid]

As I said above: level 1 sleep

So the best ones are elves.

[nickl_2000]

As I said above: level 1 sleep

Just trying to think of other possible spells that may work is all. I agree with you that sleep is the best option

[The_Jette]

The easiest way to drop the barbarian out of rage is to just spread out far enough that the barbarian can't reach anyone to attack on their round, and don't attack him. Rage ends, because no attack was made from or at the barbarian, and they die from their wounds.

[Lombra]

I think we may have a winner for soloing the tarrasqe though. With a very theatrical die right after slaying the monster built in.

If and only if the barbarian passes the frightful presence save and if and only if the barbarian can pump out more than 68 damage per turn, if not the fight will last too long for the rage to last enough. But I guess that the barbarian could survive the first round without rage... activating it only when he actually can die.

Edit: with a rough calculation a level 20 great weapon master scourge aasimar zealot while using it's radiant consumption and wielding a +3 greataxe could actually do it if the tarrasque only limits itself to dealing damage.

[DarkKnightJin]

The easiest way to drop the barbarian out of rage is to just spread out far enough that the barbarian can't reach anyone to attack on their round, and don't attack him. Rage ends, because no attack was made from or at the barbarian, and they die from their wounds.

This would work.. right up until 15th level, where the Rage lasts the full duration, or of the Barb decides to end it early.

[The_Jette]

This would work.. right up until 15th level, where the Rage lasts the full duration, or of the Barb decides to end it early.

Right. Forgot about Persistent Rage...

[Specter]

Sleep, cast at 1st level. Done and done. Unless we're looking at a half-elf zealot, in which case prepare new character sheets.

[DarkKnightJin]

Sleep, cast at 1st level. Done and done. Unless we're looking at a half-elf zealot, in which case prepare new character sheets.

And then you learn they took a 3 level Tomelock dip with Aspect of the Moon, so Sleep has no effect either.

[GlenSmash!]

So the best ones are elves.

Yep. Elf Zealot covers one of their obvious weaknesses. Half Elf even lets you bump the right stats.

[GlenSmash!]

So he's not effectively immortal. He can die. But he probably won't. But he can. And if he does there's no real cost to bring him back. But you probably won't have to bring him back. Because he probably won't die. But he's not effectively immortal.


Edit:


Probably fun for a little while. Think I'd feel like I was running on cheatmode after awhile. Life and death situations aren't very exciting when the second option is greyed out.

In a campaign that is at level 15+, failing scenarios should be less about reducing either side of a combat to 0 hope and more about how the effects on the game world.

What does it matter if the Zealot survives when the land he rules and has sworn to protect has been completely devastated? His mate, offspring, and whole clan perished?

[Rusvul]

"However, if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don't die until your rage ends..."

Zealots are still vulnerable to being killed by massive damage, since dying of massive damage isn't dying due to failed death saves. Of course, that's not likely for a 15th level Barbarian, but it could happen in theory.

[Contrast]

Yup you're right, when facing a spellcaster who knows one of the handful of spells that actually can kill you, and has the wherewithal (and spell slots left) to target you with them when you hit 0hp (also necessitating somehow knowing when you hit 0hp), or a TPK that's not quite close enough for you to mop up while your rage still lasts, you are definitely not guaranteed to survive. Heck, with the TPK you're not even guaranteed to come back for free!

Granted, in every OTHER situation you're effectively immortal.

I like playing barbarians. "Difficult to kill in a straight beat down" is not the same thing as "impossible to kill save for a narrow set of specific circumstances."

I don't hate the subclass. I mean, I'd never play it but I can see the appeal. But you're kidding yourself if you think those abilities grant anything less than effective immortality.

One of a handful?

There's a vast selection of spells that will incapacitate or prevent him from killing you for 1 minute (anything from polymorphing him to reverse gravity to flying to a simple charm to stop him attacking you to...just running away if you're a rogue or a monk or someone with access to boosted movement speed), at which point he'll drop dead. You'll note most of these have the advantage that they're something that makes sense to cast at any barbarian to get them out of the fight.

I'm also not saying the subclass is bad but to suggest it makes it functionally impossible for your character to die is laughable. You are very difficult to kill. So is a level 15 bearbarian.

Lets put it the other way round - would you consider pitting a party against a 15th level zealot barbarian to be an insurmountable challenge? I know who my money is on.

[Specter]

And then you learn they took a 3 level Tomelock dip with Aspect of the Moon, so Sleep has no effect either.

Hey, if you've managed to reach level 15 in the Barbarian class AND still manage to make room for 3 levels of Warlock, then you'vevearned whatever benefits you want.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Just trying to think of other possible spells that may work is all. I agree with you that sleep is the best option

Literally any spell that will incapacitate the Barbarian or at least stop him from being able to make an attack for a round without dealing damage to him.

So, Hold Person, Suggestion, Command, Entangle (if he hasn't got a ranged weapon)... it's a very long list.

[Naanomi]

Literally any spell that will incapacitate the Barbarian or at least stop him from being able to make an attack for a round without dealing damage to him.

So, Hold Person, Suggestion, Command, Entangle (if he hasn't got a ranged weapon)... it's a very long list.
Until Persistant Rage (one level later...) then you have to keep them at bay for a full minute

[Temperjoke]

I like Otiluke's Resilient Sphere myself. Lock them in a hamster ball until the rage runs out. Forcecage is nice too.

[mephnick]

They're not immune to TPK's.

[DarkKnightJin]

They're not immune to TPK's.

Indeed. They might be effectively 'immortal' for a while, but the Healer they want to keep them from dying or pick them up after they do.. very much isn't .

[DarkKnightJin]

Hey, if you've managed to reach level 15 in the Barbarian class AND still manage to make room for 3 levels of Warlock, then you'vevearned whatever benefits you want.

15/3 Zealot - Celestial split. They can't die without being hit for tremendous damage, you can't put them to sleep (Aspect), and they can Bonus Action heal themselves for 1d6 to reset their Death Daves 4 times per long rest.

I think I've found the way I wanna build out my Aasimar Zealot.