Evil deities that aren't total jerks?

[BlackOnyx]

Looking through most of the bigger names for evil gods in 3.5 (Nerull, Hextor, Vecna & the like), I'm finding it difficult to identify any that champion causes other than chaos, genocide, madness, and/or torture.


While I understand evil gods would be more likely to allow for/encourage these types of actions, I'm curious if there are any out there that simply use [Evil] methods in pursuit of other goals besides "doing bad things." Gathering knowledge, guiding dead souls, providing salvation for undead followers--ambitions of that nature. (Vecna gets close in some ways, but seems to lean toward murder & domination more often than not.)


That in mind, are there are official 3.5 gods/demigods/deities that might fit that image? (I imagine most would probably trend toward LE or NE, as CE tends to revel in the activities I mentioned initially.)

[Nifft]

Hextor is worshiped canonically by large kingdoms who want law & order. Very much the opposite of chaos.

Beory is the primal earth-goddess at the center of Flan religion. Beory has two husbands: one is Pelor, the other is Nerull. Both are part of the natural order. Every year, Nerull sacrifices Obad-Hai, the god of the year, so that the year can be renewed.

Vecna's a jerk. I have nothing nice to say about him.


Overall, though, there's a reason that [Evil] beings are Evil, and it's generally because they persist in doing evil things.

[Shalist]

Ilneval (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ilneval), the pragmatic (LE) orcish god of War, Strategy, and Cleaning Up After His Brethren. Also note that in many medieval settings, even the good gods can be genocidal *-holes.

There's an ongoing, well-written* fanfic (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/in-my-time-of-troubles-dnd-si-sorta.426130/)where the SI is reincarnated as an orc, becoming a warrior-cleric of his. A huge part of the story is him using outside context knowledge (RL historical as well as FR meta) to help wage a war against chaotic-stupid (i.e. "slaves work harder if you actually feed them and don't torture them half to death"), slowly carving out a stable / civilized orcish kingdom for Ilneval.

*occasionally cringe-worthy grammar and editing aside.

[Vizzerdrix]

I remember Cas being evil. He is from either its cold or hoh.

[Celestia]

Clearly, the deity you're looking for is Lolth. lol

[martixy]

It's true that Nerull is kicking-puppies evil and Vecna is just a colossal a-hole, but Hextor's dogma is one of order through any means necessary, the more ruthless means being what puts him in the evil category.

Also Lolth, yes. Not just evil, but delightfully malevolent and spiteful.

[Gruftzwerg]

Malar (http://frc.wikia.com/wiki/Malar)


Survival of the fittest and the winnowing of the weak are Malar’s legacy. A brutal, bloody death or kill has great meaning. The crux of life is the challenge between the hunter and the prey, the determination of who lives or dies. View every important task as a hunt. Remain ever alert and alive. Walk the wilderness without trepidation, and show no fear in the hunt. Savagery and strong emotions defeat reason and careful thought in all things. Taste the blood of those you slay, and never kill from a distance. Work against those who cut back the forest and who kill beasts solely because they are dangerous. Slay not the young, the pregnant, or deepspawn so that prey will remain plentiful.

Obey Malar! ^^

Imho he is an evil deity that ain't "totally evil". He is just representing the brutal side of balance in nature.

[Eldariel]

Raistlin ultimately became a fairly nice evil deity. Too bad he had to destroy reality to accomplish that. But eh, just destroy all the evil deities and take their place as a more pragmatic sort of evil.

[Inevitability]

The Xammux (BoVD) is a NE lesser-known god who doesn't act out of any kind of malevolence (or any kind of emotion at all). They're perfectly willing to flay orphans alive or cripple newborn puppies, but they merely act to increase their knowledge.

[BlackOnyx]

Hextor is worshiped canonically by large kingdoms who want law & order. Very much the opposite of chaos.


It's true that Nerull is kicking-puppies evil and Vecna is just a colossal a-hole, but Hextor's dogma is one of order through any means necessary, the more ruthless means being what puts him in the evil category.


Hmm, did a little re-reading on Hextor's sections and actually, now that you say that, I think my memories of him were a bit off the mark.


Although he still seems to champion war & destruction (as domain options, at least), it actually sounds like he's a good deal more disciplined than most of his evil counterparts. Not as far from what I was looking for as I'd initially imagined.

[Darth Ultron]

Bane is the classic god of hatred and tyranny. Preferring worshipers to plot and scheme.

Though if you just go by the Players Handbook you only have the watered down grayhawk gods...and they wanted to make all evil badwrongfun.


And Hexor- The church of Hextor teaches that the world is a harsh, unforgiving place. The strong rule the weak, and power is the only reward worth having. Cruelty and mercilessness are necessary tools. Order must be forged from Chaos and law from anarchy, but order is meaningless without the will to enforce it. Tyrants are to be obeyed, and dissenters are to be oppressed or killed. Slaves must obey their masters.

[Buufreak]

Hmm, did a little re-reading on Hextor's sections and actually, now that you say that, I think my memories of him were a bit off the mark.


Although he still seems to champion war & destruction (as domain options, at least), it actually sounds like he's a good deal more disciplined than most of his evil counterparts. Not as far from what I was looking for as I'd initially imagined.

Yes, but in his case the idea of destruction comes from the conquest. Can't make an omelet and all that.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Yeah, Hextor really isn't THAT bad. At least the trains run on time.

[ShurikVch]

Malar (http://frc.wikia.com/wiki/Malar)



Obey Malar! ^^

Imho he is an evil deity that ain't "totally evil". He is just representing the brutal side of balance in nature.Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't various Evil-aligned Nature-related "deities" (not all of them have actual divine rank) not THAT bad?
I mean - they're just enforcing natural tendencies, and it doesn't cause the end of the world...
:xykon: Usually!..

[ViperMagnum357]

Nuitari from Krynn is fairly benign, being a God of magic that happens to be Evil and selfish, but gets along fine with his Neutral and Good siblings for the most part.

[Zanos]

Vecna is just incredibly selfish. If you're all about mememe then working for him isnt bad. He hooks you up with some nice perks and doesnt intentionally screw his followers most of the time.

[Inevitability]

Vecna is just incredibly selfish. If you're all about mememe then working for him isnt bad. He hooks you up with some nice perks and doesnt intentionally screw his followers most of the time.

Except for the part where he, y'know, trades away their actual friggin' souls.

[darksolitaire]

Clearly, the deity you're looking for is Lolth. lol

Lolth is doing remarkably good job at keeping Drow in check. Just imagine how dangerous Drow would be if they stopped being team killing jerks and turned all their scheming towards outside foes. Total sis.

[ShurikVch]

If Hextor and Ilneval were already mentioned, then how about the Deep Duerra and Lord of Blades?

[Jopustopin]

I've been a big fan of ZarusRoD lately. Zarus 2020.

[Afgncaap5]

If Hextor and Ilneval were already mentioned, then how about the Deep Duerra and Lord of Blades?

The Lord of Blades can be a lot of things depending on the DM, sort of like the setting's Magneto. Some DMs love him as a villain, some like him as a misunderstood leader... I'd hesitate to call him a deity for this purpose, even if he has clerics who can channel divine magic via their worship of him. Still, who's to say what weird secrets the guy has? Maybe he's a particularly sinister avatar of Onatar or The Traveler.

Speaking of Eberron, though, a few of those evil deities either aren't complete jerks or at least have good enough PR in the setting itself to overcome what the players and GM know by reading the books. You occasionally get weird little mini-pantheons that mix the good and evil deities together in a concept. Still, since most of their claim to goodness is people praying to them to prevent calamity, that's not exactly a huge selling point.

[Nifft]

The Lord of Blades can be a lot of things depending on the DM, sort of like the setting's Magneto. Some DMs love him as a villain, some like him as a misunderstood leader... I'd hesitate to call him a deity for this purpose, even if he has clerics who can channel divine magic via their worship of him. Still, who's to say what weird secrets the guy has? Maybe he's a particularly sinister avatar of Onatar or The Traveler. The best use for the LoB that I've seen is that he deliberately obfuscates himself so that people who think they're worshiping him are actually worshiping a principle of self-improvement and victory. He's "becoming the mask" ... in a way that's kinda-sorta opposite of the Becoming God.


Speaking of Eberron, though, a few of those evil deities either aren't complete jerks or at least have good enough PR in the setting itself to overcome what the players and GM know by reading the books. You occasionally get weird little mini-pantheons that mix the good and evil deities together in a concept. Still, since most of their claim to goodness is people praying to them to prevent calamity, that's not exactly a huge selling point. IIRC the Giant pantheon was a good example of this, and the Sovereign Archetypes of Dragons also intermix good & evil aspects of the gods.

[Florian]

As the Golarion setting started in 3.5E....

That setting has some of the more "believable" evil deities that are not "stupid evil" or "comic evil, screw all followers over" with some of them on a level, that a regular person can at least understand why they're worshipped.

Asmodeus, Lissala and Zon-Kuthon stand out in this regard.

[Dalmosh]

Wee Jas always struck me as a pretty reasonable straight-up Evil Deity. Pragmatic law-abiding necromancy?

[Nifft]

Wee Jas always struck me as a pretty reasonable straight-up Evil Deity. Pragmatic law-abiding necromancy?

That's probably because she's Lawful Neutral.

[Thealtruistorc]

Here are the evil deities in my current campaign's setting whom I would not consider jerkfaces.

Nerusa, the LE goddess of dragons and nobility, is evil from a purely pragmatic standpoint, much like our beloved Red Fel. Her reasoning for being evil is that it gets more things done than being good, and evil tends to be at least a little bit more forgiving of emotional outbursts which lead to people getting hurt (Nerusa may be ancient and brilliant, but she remains a dragon and a prideful one at that). Her worshippers are mostly chromatic dragons ancient noble houses who want to hold onto their power in a changing world.

Caynoch, the NE God of Murder, Legislation, and Corruption, is once again being practical. He realizes that evil is nearly ubiquitous in the world, and rather than attempting to contain these vices accepts them as a natural part of the world. Moreso, he tries to make evil people useful, teaching them how they can use their skills in lying, cheating, stealing, and murdering to benefit the world at large ("I know a spymaster who would pay good coin for your abilities"). Has this led to some pretty nasty violence? Yes. Could it have been prevented? That's a matter of perspective.

Moloch, the Archdevil of the Military-Industrial complex, is evil because he has no interest or understanding in mortal desires such as compassion. In his mind, there is only the mission to establish order and to make sure everything runs properly, and for that he will dole out any punishment and resort to any draconian measure.

Finally, Talsani is basically an evil version of Cayden Calien, a CE goddess of excess who takes her whims to their hedonistic extremes. She hurts others simply because she sees their lives as irrelevant, and considers them to be nothing more than figments of her imagination. Although she is cursed with an inability to take physical form, she watches the world as if were a game of The Sims, interjecting or simply watching the absurd ideas people come up with and taking pleasure in the absurdity of it all.

[Luccan]

As those presented in the PHB go, Hextor isn't the worst. More over, if your his cleric/champion in a society the runs on HextorTM, things are pretty good for you.

[Pronounceable]

You're not gonna find any, op. Bane and/or Hextor (they're pretty much the exact same guy anyway) is the closest you'll come. Because evil doesn't actually mean evil in DnD, it means *******. The sensible/pragmatic types you're looking for don't have EVIL written on their driver licences. Like Tempus, Annam, Boccob and Shevarash. You want unjerk evil, look at hyperfocused or uncaring neutrals.

Your best bet is (disregarding creating your own gods) to homebrew away the worst excesses of the famous ones like Shar, Umberlee, Erythnul or Gruumsh. Even complete ****bags like Vecna or Cyric can be remade into semblances of reasonableness with some DM work.

[Luccan]

You're not gonna find any, op. Bane and/or Hextor (they're pretty much the exact same guy anyway) is the closest you'll come. Because evil doesn't actually mean evil in DnD, it means *******. The sensible/pragmatic types you're looking for don't have EVIL written on their driver licences. Like Tempus, Annam, Boccob and Shevarash. You want unjerk evil, look at hyperfocused or uncaring neutrals.

Your best bet is (disregarding creating your own gods) to homebrew away the worst excesses of the famous ones like Shar, Umberlee, Erythnul or Gruumsh. Even complete ****bags like Vecna or Cyric can be remade into semblances of reasonableness with some DM work.

I don't entirely agree with that stance on evil in D&D as a whole, but it does tend to apply to the evil deities. I mean, some of the neutral gods ares are real pieces of work that if examined in the real world would probably be described as evil by a fair number of people. But the evil gods are just kind of nuts, for the most part. Which is also why when you look into their lore, they usually either bullied their followers into following them (most of the Goblinoid deities), convinced them it was them vs the world (Gruumsh), or their followers are nuts (Erythnul). It just doesn't make sense to follow an evil deity in D&D if you aren't at least a little crazy or xenophobic.

[tadkins]

Auril (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Auril) is probably my favorite deity that'd be classified as evil. But that's a matter of perspective, because she and her followers simply want to cover the lands in an eternal winter. And what's wrong with that? Everyone loves to play in the snow, right? :)