Dark Heresy / The One Ring mash-up

[JellyPooga]

So here's the thing; I really like the lore of Dark Heresy/40k, but the system is...heavy. The simple fact is that I doubt I could get my group (or, if you prefer, any given group) to invest heavily enough in the system to get a good game out of it. It's too crunchy, too slow and one slip in character building can ruin a character.

The One Ring is a system that, in my opinion, embodies elegance in game design. Simple in play, but deep in character; just what I want a DH game to be. I would like to marry the two and make something beautiful.

It should be easy enough; change a few names of skills and abilities and we're golden, right? Going off of DH2ed, there's even a remarkable similarity in process (e.g. Planet/Background/Role - Culture/Background/Calling). Only...there's some hurdles.

1) Psykers and psychic powers. How and where might these fit in?

2) Corruption and Mutation vs. The Shadow. The parallels are pretty obvious. The problem being that the effects of exposure to the Warp and its creatures are...generally more overt than those exhibited by the minions of The Shadow. At least in the minor leagues; Shadow creatures that are *that* far gone are pretty obvious, but until then are fairly innocuous. There's also the "five strikes and out" issue of TOR; in DH, being ultimately corrupted by the Warp can be a gameplay element rather than an out and out "hand over your sheet" moment.

Additionally, I'm having trouble with making parallels for the Shadow Weaknesses. I think it'd be cool and thematic to marry in the Chaos Powers somehow. Some are pretty easy; the Slayers "Curse of Vengeance" is quite clearly a Khornate trait, for example, but the Wanderers "Wandering Madness"? Not so sure. It also limits the field to four. How might we expand upon and modify this?

Any other obvious issues I'm missing? Other suggestions? Comments or criticism? I welcome any and all! Thanks.

[thorr-kan]

I have no familiarity with Dark Heresy/WH40K, but I'm a big TOR fan. May I suggest the Cubicle 7 forums:
forums.cubicle7.co.uk? There have been several discussions of using TOR for different games/genres.

[Chijinda]

I have no familiarity with Dark Heresy/WH40K, but I'm a big TOR fan. May I suggest the Cubicle 7 forums:
forums.cubicle7.co.uk? There have been several discussions of using TOR for different games/genres.

I'm ironically on the other side of the fence. Familiar enough with DH/WH40k but know nothing about TOR.


It's definitely a game to play only if your group (or at least the majority of your group) is familiar with 40k, because you're right that it's very crunch-heavy. Although I disagree on the "ruin a character" argument. While I suppose it's possible to end up with a severely sub-par character, unless you're explicitly taking all the worst, most niche possible talents (like Wrangling, Trade, Gamble, etc.) you will generally end up with a passable character that is going to be useful, even if they're not necessarily optimized.

Unless this is DH2, in which case, yeah I can see how you'd be concerned about it punishing newer players (Aptitudes can be a big pain for the unprepared).

[JellyPooga]

Thanks for the responses guys!

@ thorr-kan: I'll definitely go check out the C7 forums and see what's on offer there.

@ Chijinda: If I'm honest, I...didn't like DH1ed that much. I don't want to turn this into an edition war, but I just don't know what it was about it. Whether it was the clean looking rulebook, the rigid nature of its "class" system, or even just the sheer weight of the rulebook. It felt very much to me like the (disclaimer: IMO) bad old days of GWs middle years (mid-90's to noughties); clean, efficient, built for maximum profit. DH2ed isn't really any better mechanically when you get down to it, but it at least gives the illusion of more freedom in character creation (which could be an interesting commentary on the society of the in-game world of the 40k universe) and the rulebook...oh the rulebook! It's a mess of a book, badly indexed and laid out, forcing a player/GM to flip furiously between pages to resolve individual checks, full of arcane rules and sidebars that may or may not be optional; you practically need a PhD to fully comprehend the DH2ed rulebook...but it's oh so pretty. It's chocked full of that old-school 80's GW style art, the flavour text is gritty and oft-times a little dark, even the pages are an aged-brown with (printed) tattered edges. I didn't buy the book for the rules, I bought it because just reading those rules is a roleplaying experience in the 40k universe. tl;dr - yeah, I'm talking about DH2ed :smallwink: But I get what you mean.

[Jackalias]

I thought this was gonna be about some acolytes landing on middle Earth.

[JellyPooga]

Ok, so I've hashed out some details for this notion; I'll try not to go into excruciating depth on every aspect I've changed, but here's a general run-down for anyone interested. I'd like to hear any feedback from anyone that has familiarity with either or both systems; what you think works, what doesn't. For reference, I'm using the fluff elements from DH2ed and integrating them into the general rule-set of TOR, with some tweaks to make it all fit.

1) Cultural Heritage, Background and Calling VS. Background, Homeworld and Role

TOR Background has become DH Homeworld. Rather than having multiple (TOR) Backgrounds for each (TOR) Cultural Heritage, each (DH) Homeworld is available to all (DH) Backgrounds (e.g. a Feral Worlder can choose to take any Background, from Adeptus Administratum to Outcaste). In my port, Homeworld determines your Body, Heart and Wits, two Distinctive Features, one Favoured Common Skill and Standard of Living. Unlike DH2ed, there is no "Homeworld Bonus"; this has been replaced, in my mind, by your Distinctive Features; so where a Feral Worlder once had The Old Ways, which granted him a specific bonus using Primitive weapons, you now might have a Distinctive Feature; The Old Ways (chosen from a pool of six Distinctive Features) which would indicate that you come from a culture that employs or lauds primitive methods and be able to invoke that Trait whenever applicable, much as a Beorning in TOR could invoke Mountaineering or Story-Telling.

I've made this change from TOR because it allows for an easier introduction of more Homeworld types. Thus far, I'm working solely with the Core DH2ed rulebook, but there's a whole slew of additional Homeworlds in additional content and introducing them with different arrays of Body/Heart/Wits and Distinctive Features is an easy way to differentiate characters from different worlds. I also like that this is a relatively minor aspect of character creation; Acolytes are meant to be influenced by their Homeworld, but not defined by them.

TOR Cultural Heritage is DH Background. Background here is probably the most significant element of character creation; it determines your initial Common Skills, one Favoured Common Skill, two Specialities, Weapon Proficiencies and your Background Bonus. The parallel here with (TOR) Cultural Heritage is pretty direct. Not much to say, except that I also intend for Rewards (from increasing Valour) to be influenced by Background (but not Virtues for increased Wisdom; see later); that way, those Rewards can be nice and flavourful (e.g. cybernetics for Adeptus Mechanicus characters, shiny Enforcer Plate for Adeptus Arbites and so forth).

The Background Bonuses have been largely ported directly over from TOR, renamed to their DH2ed counterpart; the Imperial Guard Hammer of the Emperor, for example, uses the rules for the (TOR) Beorning Furious. As there are more DH Backgrounds than TOR Cultural Heritages, I'm having to make a few up; the Adeptus Administratum gets a bonus to making Requisition tests (roll Feat die twice, keep best) and an improvement to Standard of Living. The Adeptus Astra Telepathica and Adpetus Mechanicus are proving difficult; the Ad.Mech. is easy in theory - Replace the Weak Flesh can "simply" be that the character starts with Mechanicus Implants (the relative ease of obtaining further implants is represented by their Rewards, as mentioned earlier)...quite what game effect Mechanicus Implants has is another matter. I'm open to suggestions. The AAT is harder and it ties in with another difficulty; how to implement psychic powers in the first place (but more on that later). If anyone can suggest an appropriate rule for either The Constant Threat and/or Tested on Terra as a Background Bonus, I'm all ears.

TOR Calling becomes DH Role. This proved to be a lot more work than I initially anticipated, because there are only five Callings in TOR and DH2ed has eight Roles, not to mention trying to decide which elements fit best where. Role here determines a further two Favoured Common Skills (chosen from two Skill Groups), one unique Trait, your Shadow Weakness Path to Corruption and (breaking from the TOR mould) your Endurance and Hope Willpower. Role will also determine your specific Virtues gained by raising Wisdom (much as Cultural Heritage does in TOR).

The eight Roles are very convenient for assigning the Ruinous Powers to Paths of Corruption; two for each. The (TOR) Slayer, for example, got traits split between the Assassin (Curse of Vengeance) and the Warrior Roles (Lust for Battle), representing two aspects of Khornes influence. There are a couple of Paths I'm struggling with, however; the Mystic and the Seeker. The Sage got the Lure of Secrets wholesale, clearly a Tzeentchian Path and it seems appropriate that the Mystic (being the psyker Role, by any other name) also be governed by Tzeentch's influence; I'm not sure what Flaws might be appropriate for a Mystic, or even what name to give his Path to Corruption. I have a similar problem with the Seeker; the other Shadow Weaknesses seem to fit quite nicely into a Role and Ruinous Power; Chirurgeon gets a renamed Wandering Madness as a Nurglite Path, Desperado and Heirophant get Dragon-Sickness and Lure of Power respectively, direct from Slaanesh's bosom and I've already mentioned Khorne...which leaves the Seeker looking for a Path relating somehow to Grandfather Nurgle. Aaaand it just...doesn't quite fit. Suggestions, as always, are welcome.

The unique Traits are also pretty easy; ripped straight out of the DH book they serve well as Traits; the Assassins Sure Kill has obvious application in setting ambushes, locating good sniping spots and such like, while the Heirophants Sway the Masses is going to be good for public speaking. All except the Desperado...Move and Shoot is more a description of an ability than something to hang a story on, so I've penciled in Panache as their Trait, but I'm not convinced on it.

As for Endurance and Willpower, in addition to shifting the source from Cultural Heritage to Calling, I've added a little extra mathmatics. Endurance is calculated by adding Body and Heart and dividing by 2. Willpower by Wits and Heart, divide 2. Add to a base that varies by Role and done. I made this change largely because it lessens the impact of Homeworld further and takes away some focus from Background (which is where it would be if I were directly importing Cultural Heritage). It also lessens the impact of having a high Heart rating a little; still an important factor, but it stops players from jumping at the Homeworlds with high Heart ratings as a matter of course.

I've moved Virtues into the realm of Role for two reasons; first, it allows Role to impact the development of your character more. I thought this a more appropriate place for them because where in TOR a character is defined more by where he has come from than where he's going, in DH it's the opposite; the future is what's important, not the past. The second reason is that it allows me to make psychic powers Virtues of the Mystic (aka: Psyker) Role. It seemed an obvious move when it occurred to me.

2) Weapon Proficiencies, Groups and Types

This is much easier to describe;

Weapon Groups are the direct equivalent of TOR Cultural Weapon Groups and work in exactly the same way; if you're proficient in a Weapon Group, you can use any weapon, regardless of type, within it using your Skill Rating for the group. The Groups are Pistol, Basic, Heavy and Melee. Easy.

Weapon Types are slightly different to TOR, inasmuch as they also act like TOR Cultural Weapon Groups. The Weapon Types are Bolt, Las, Solid Projectile and so forth.

The difference between the two classifications are that a character can have a Favoured Weapon Type (underlined), but cannot have a Favoured Weapon Group. I've toyed with the notion that certain weapons must be specifically chosen (e.g. you can't be proficient in all Exotic weapons, but must choose a specific Exotic weapon to be proficient in) and/or the thought that certain weapons require both Group AND Type proficiency to use (e.g. a Heavy Plasma Gun requires both the Heavy Group AND Plasma Type)...but I think I might be overthinking it.

3) Psychic Powers

As mentioned earlier, I'm pretty set on making Psychic Powers into Virtues of the Mystic Role. It seems an easy way to keep psykers balanced against other character types AND to maintain the notion of Psychic Disciplines by implementing them in a similar manner to the TOR spells; when you gain a Virtue, you choose a Discipline that comes with a minor Power for "free". You can then spend experience on buying further powers in that Discipline as a "Fellowship Phase Action" (which I haven't come up with a DH appropriate name for, yet), in the same way that (for instance) a Woodman with a Hound spends XP on training it to do new tricks, or indeed an Elf learns new spells. The trick here is keeping the powers in line with other Virtues and I've got a lot of work cut out to flesh out all the Disciplines.

One idea I'm toying with, which may be needlessly harsh but also solves one part of the AAT Background Bonus problem, is to have any Skill rolls involved in using a psychic power be forced to roll the Feat die twice (thrice?) and take the worse result (with the obvious benefit of AAT/Tested on Terra being that you get to roll one less Feat die). Quite how this whole idea might tie in to notions of Psychic Phenomena, Perils of the Warp and so forth is beyond me at the moment; definitely a lot of work to do on Psykers before I'm in any state to start hammering out the nitty gritty.

4) Common Skills

Some straight up replacements;

Explore -> Operate
Song -> Trade
Healing -> Medicae
Travel -> Survival
Hunting -> Tech-Use
Riddle -> Streetwise

Pretty self-explanatory.

Well...that's about all I've got so far. As I mentioned, I haven't put in all the details here (like the specific breakdown of what Backgrounds get which Common Skills), but I think you can get the gist of where I'm going with most of it. Any questions, suggestions, criticism or advice is much appreciated. Cheers!