Elminster statted in 5e?

[Pinjata]

As the title says - I googled A LOT, to find statted Elminster in 5e, but results were not to be found. Anyone has a link on this old arcane guy being statted?

thanks :)

[Elminster298]

As the title says - I googled A LOT, to find statted Elminster in 5e, but results were not to be found. Anyone has a link on this old arcane guy being statted?

thanks :)

Without epic level rules this would be impossible RAW. The closest I could think would be: Rogue 1/Fighter 2/Theurgy or Lore Wizard 17. After that you could just add the original "Chosen of Mystra" template from 3rd ed.
~Chosen Immunities- Completely unaffected by attacks that duplicate: detect thoughts, disintegrate, Evard's black tentacles, feeblemind, finger of death, fireball, magic missile, sunburst, time stop.
~Chosen Spell-like abilities- 1/day dispel magic, lesser ironguard(makes caster immune to nonmagical metal weapons), see invisibility, shapechange, Symbul's synostodweomer(convert prepared spells to two points of healing per spell level), spider climb, teleport, thunderwave, true seeing.
~Detect Magic continuously in line of sight.
~+10 to constitution
~Silver Fire- I don't have the stats for this but it is basically pure magic that can do all sorts of different things...

[Unoriginal]

As the title says - I googled A LOT, to find statted Elminster in 5e, but results were not to be found. Anyone has a link on this old arcane guy being statted?

thanks :)

Elminster hasn't been statted in 5e, officially.



Without epic level rules this would be impossible RAW. The closest I could think would be: Rogue 1/Fighter 2/Theurgy or Lore Wizard 17. After that you could just add the original "Chosen of Mystra" template from 3rd ed.
~Chosen Immunities- Completely unaffected by attacks that duplicate: detect thoughts, disintegrate, Evard's black tentacles, feeblemind, finger of death, fireball, magic missile, sunburst, time stop.
~Chosen Spell-like abilities- 1/day dispel magic, lesser ironguard(makes caster immune to nonmagical metal weapons), see invisibility, shapechange, Symbul's synostodweomer(convert prepared spells to two points of healing per spell level), spider climb, teleport, thunderwave, true seeing.
~Detect Magic continuously in line of sight.
~+10 to constitution
~Silver Fire- I don't have the stats for this but it is basically pure magic that can do all sorts of different things...

You're kind of trying to shove the 3.X build into 5e. If Elminster is ever statted, he probably would be far different.

[Elminster298]

Elminster hasn't been statted in 5e, officially.




You're kind of trying to shove the 3.X build into 5e. If Elminster is ever statted, he probably would be far different.

You are absolutely correct and I said that. Rogue and fighter are both parts of his character from the books. He is supposed to have cleric as well but instead of adding that as a class I thought it appropriate to make him a Theurgy wizard although lore fits him a bit better. The chosen template is obviously broken and makes Elminster a massively overpowered character but at least it makes him feel epic and they are all abilities he had up until he became insane. Create a better one. I don't say my build is the end all only way.

[JackPhoenix]

Mordenkainen was regular Archmage in CoS. Elminster doesn't deserve any better.

[Nifft]

Mordenkainen was regular Archmage in CoS. Elminster doesn't deserve any better.

Mordenkainen is a retired PC from an actual tabletop game.

Elminster is a self-insert plot device.

[JackPhoenix]

Mordenkainen is a retired PC from an actual tabletop game.

Elminster is a self-insert plot device.

3e Mordy was 27 wizard. Elminster wasn't that far off, with 29 levels of wizard (and archmage) and the remaining six in combination of cleric, fighter and rogue (which, let's be honest, were pretty much inconsequential compared to wizardry). He was also depowered later, so I think they would be even closer to each other.

[Elminster298]

Mordenkainen was regular Archmage in CoS. Elminster doesn't deserve any better.

The OP did not specify "stat him as an AL legal pc". The build I proposed gave Elminster as close to the stats that he has in the books. As I said, propose a build.

Also, Mordenkainen was given stats in the 3rd ed epic level handbook as a Wizard 27. No bells. No whistles. Elminster was a rogue 1/Fighter 2/cleric 3/wizard 24/archmage 5 with the chosen of Mystra template and holding a portion of the power of the goddess of magic. That is not a standard 20 level character.

[Regitnui]

Mordenkainen is a retired PC from an actual tabletop game.

Elminster is a self-insert plot device.

He has a special trait:
Anything You Can Do. Any harmful spell targeting Elminster that would reduce him to 0 hit points or fewer or any spell that would change Elminster's form automatically fails, instead targeting a random ally of the caster as Elminster recasts the spell. In addition, Elminster succeeds on all saving throws against spells and other magical effects unless cast by Mystra herself. Honestly, people, he has to stay alive for the next few editions of D&D!

[Mith]

Mordenkainen was regular Archmage in CoS. Elminster doesn't deserve any better.

I would describe that situation of Mordenkain in CoS as him being stripped of a portion of his power to be acceptable.

[War_lord]

Mordenkainen is a retired PC from an actual tabletop game.

Elminster is a self-insert plot device.

They're both self-insert plot devices. The difference is that any criticism of Gygax is verboten.

[Nifft]

They're both self-insert plot devices. The difference is that any criticism of Gygax is verboten.

Where was Mordy used as a plot device?

[JackPhoenix]

They're both self-insert plot devices. The difference is that any criticism of Gygax is verboten.

The difference is that Mordenkainen is much less obnoxious and Sue-ish, because he started as actual PC in the game, and later showed as an NPC with really stupid take on what True Neutral alignment means. Elminster always was self-insert plot device.

[Sigreid]

Hopefully he'll one day be stated as a lemure, stripped of his identity and power and rotting in the lowest hell...

[Regitnui]

Hopefully he'll one day be stated as a lemure, stripped of his identity and power and rotting in the lowest hell...

You can do that yourself. Just make an extraordinarily resistant lemure that the players can't kill because reasons.

[Sigreid]

You can do that yourself. Just make an extraordinarily resistant lemure that the players can't kill because reasons.

Yeah, but if I do it that doesn't take him out of all the officially released content going forward.

[KorvinStarmast]

Mordenkainen is a retired PC from an actual tabletop game.

Elminster is a self-insert plot device. The original Mordenkainen was a 22d level magic user in OD&D/AD&D 1e. (I think E.G.G. made a comment about that in a dragonsfoot post, but I can't find it at the moment).

Elminster: if you want to make him for 5e, make a 20th level wizard, and then start adding some epic boons from the DMG, and toss in a few feats like lucky.

[Naanomi]

Elminster: if you want to make him for 5e, make a 20th level wizard, and then start adding some epic boons from the DMG, and toss in a few feats like lucky.
I agree; who rolled very high stats, with a lot of magic items, an extensive Background, and a lot of time sunk into learning tools/languages...

not sure specialty though, he is a pretty solid ‘generalist’; maybe a little focus on transmutation?

[Willie the Duck]

The original Mordenkainen was a 22d level magic user in OD&D/AD&D 1e. (I think E.G.G. made a comment about that in a dragonsfoot post, but I can't find it at the moment).

My understanding is that the era when the iconic D&D characters were accomplishments-occurred-in-gameplay PCs at EGG's table ended with Robilar being the highest-level PC ever at level 14 or 15 or so. Everything after that was EGG realizing that he'd lost the battle on what constitutes powerful (when people used Gods Demigods and Heroes as a monster manual), and just started declaring these important characters to be Magic-User level X or Fighter level Y. So by that point they were pretty much fiat inserts.

Although that's roughly what this thread is. What stats are needed to make a high level NPC feel 'like Elminster' enough to buy them as Elminster.


Elminster: if you want to make him for 5e, make a 20th level wizard, and then start adding some epic boons from the DMG, and toss in a few feats like lucky.

I would make him as a high level wizard who rolled all 18s (or all 20s, for that matter), or near-enough to. Thus he can spend his ASIs(/feats), background, and archetype selections on giving him the minor thief, cleric, and fighter abilities he needs to fill the role--which frankly amount to what? wielding a sword (weapon master), some very occasional rogue-like talents (skilled, prodigy, criminal background, or just skill selection), and some kind of low level clerical ability (magic initiate, ritual caster: cleric). Alternatively, any 1-3 of those can be accomplished with a 1-level dip. They really are all window dressing, even in-literature (he's never shown doing anything that requires high levels of any of those classes).

[Sigreid]

Realistically it should only really matter if you intend him to be an active participant in an adventure (a bad idea in my opinion), or the party has decided to try to kill him (could be a lot of fun).

[HolyDraconus]

To be fair to Mordy, in CoS he was suffering severe memory loss, to the point that he has no idea who he is, let alone what all he can do.

[Asmotherion]

Non official.

As a Dm controlled character who is mostly used for plot device, use the Archmage stats (with re-chosen spells for custumisation) for anything that really needs to be rolled, and make the rest of his interactions into interesting Cinematics.

If you want a more customised Elminster, feel free to design him however you want/feel like, even going to the length of refluffing class skills. I'd still limit him to 20 levels, or a maximum of 25 if you really want to give him that "breaking the cap" feeling, because more than that is really obsolate.

The most accurate way is a convention from a previous edition, limited to 20 levels. The fastest is a Generic Archmage. One might fit your playstyle more than the other, and both will be equally interesting NPCs if Role Played right by the DM!

[KorvinStarmast]

My understanding is that the era when the iconic D&D characters were accomplishments-occurred-in-gameplay PCs at EGG's table ended with Robilar being the highest-level PC ever at level 14 or 15 or so. You may be right, I'd need to find that post to get more granular detail.

[Blacky the Blackball]

The difference is that Mordenkainen is much less obnoxious and Sue-ish, because he started as actual PC in the game, and later showed as an NPC with really stupid take on what True Neutral alignment means. Elminster always was self-insert plot device.

To be fair, Mordenkainen's take on True Neutral made perfect sense in OD&D's alignment system (which was nothing to do with ethics or personality, but about which side you supported - literally, which side you were aligned with - in the great cosmic game; Mordenkainen and his allies wanted neither side to win the game, hence trying to keep the two sides balanced against each other and not letting either get too far ahead).

It's only when later editions ditched that type of alignment and replaced it with alignment-as-moral-and-ethical-outlook that his take on things retroactively looked stupid.

[Malifice]

My Shadowvar Hexblade/ Shadow Sorcerer hates him for the genocide he comitted on Thulanthar (the city of Shade).

Im persuaded he's the most evil being on Faerun, and have sworn to avenge my people.

Shar wills it.

[Elminster298]

My Shadowvar Hexblade/ Shadow Sorcerer hates him for the genocide he comitted on Thulanthar (the city of Shade).

Im persuaded he's the most evil being on Faerun, and have sworn to avenge my people.

Shar wills it.

In true shadovar style, totally ignoring the genocide they themselves committed on the bedine people of the anauoch desert, the thousands killed in the attack on Yuann, and the tens of thousands killed when they wipe Ordulin off the map... 😑

[Sigreid]

In true shadovar style, totally ignoring the genocide they themselves committed on the bedine people of the anauoch desert, the thousands killed in the attack on Yuann, and the tens of thousands killed when they wipe Ordulin off the map... 😑

But...but...but...those people had it coming! It's a public service I tell you!

[Clistenes]

Well, at least you can homebrew Elminster as 20 lvl character with a ton of custom Epic Boons. You can probably fold both his levels as Fighter and Rogue into levels as Swashbuckler and give him the Magic Initiate (Cleric) and Ritual Caster (Cleric) feats, or whatever...

Or you can just build him as a monster and give him all the stuff you want... he is supposed to be an OP Mary Sue, anyways, so give him "CR: Too Much" and be done with it...

There are other epic characters who are way more difficult to replicate, like Duke Rowan Darkwood, a normal human who just happens to be a ranger 19/cleric 20, or the Simbul, who has caster level 20 as a sorceress and caster level 12 as a wizard... Anything I can think of to replicate them using the PC building rules falls short...

But what pisses me more about 5th edition is how they have gutted so many of the lore from 2nd and 3rd edition: Archons are gone, and the old Celestial Exemplar Eladrins are gone and replaced with bland elves... and they haven't replaced the lost lore with a new version... Running a Planescape campaign requires a ton of homebrewing know, and that hurts the many ultrafans who love the planar lore to death...

[Sigreid]

This now has me thinking an entire FR campaign could be done brilliantly around the concept that Elminster has been corrupted and it's up to the party to unravel his plots, expose his corruption and ultimately find a way to bring him to a final end.