Draconic Fist (3.5) Source?

[Swiftest]

My friend is making a monk and has repeatedly received recommendations to take the Draconic Fist variant for a 3.5 monk. Can anyone tell me what sourcebook it's from, or is it from Dragon Magazine?

[Nifft]

Look here for variants: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8732

This one appears to be from Dragon Magic.

It doesn't look that great.

[ATHATH]

Yeah, Draconic Fist is pretty garbage. I'd recommend taking Soulwarp Strike instead (since the Nauseated condition is quite nasty), but ONLY if you can use the Golarion Monk variant (I think that was its name) to make Stunning Fist available to be taken as your 2nd level bonus feat instead of your 1st (so that you can have both Soulwarp Strike AND Stunning Fist).

Who is giving these recommendations to your friend, might I ask? What are some things that this "recommender" considers to be "strong"?

If you really want the Draconic Fist ACF's effect, take the Fiery Fist feat as your second level bonus feat instead of taking that ACF. You'll be able to keep Stunning Fist while still being able to spend Stunning Fist attempts to temporarily add mediocre amounts of fire damage to the damage of your attacks. There are much, much better ways of getting fire damage on your unarmed strikes, though (*cough* Amulet of Natural Attacks+Flaming enchantment (enhancement?) *cough*).

[Carden-Gix'oth]

Draconic Fist isn't trash. It deals an extra 1d6/5character levels (4d6 at level 20) of any element you choose (locked in when you choose the Feat) each time you strike. You can use it a number of times a day equal to your class level, so 1/day at Level 1, 20/day at level 20. Monks at level 20 with a Flurry of Blows (and under the effects of, say, a ring of Divine Power) can do 7 attacks a round dealing 2d10+STR+what the hells ever per hit. They can also, with Draconic Fist, deal 4d6 (insert element here) on each hit. Now, granted, at level 20 you only get 2 full FoB usage out of it, sure. But that's (assuming 10STR, no other bonuses, and Medium sized Monk) (2d10+4d6)*7 = 154 max potential damage, with no crits, and 304 assuming every hit crits. Add in a STR of 20 and gloves/handwraps that deal only 1d6 extra damage, and your damage shoots up to 175 max damage with no crit, and assuming every hit crits, that's 315.

154-304 or 175-315 max potential damage for a Monk at level 20, without wielding a weapon. Draconic Fist is pretty damn good. It's better than Stunning Fist. And this was without getting stupid with a Monk's Belt or stupidly powerful Handwraps. And don't get me ****ing started on Epic Weapon enchantments for handwraps....

[flappeercraft]

Draconic Fist isn't trash. It deals an extra 1d6/5character levels (4d6 at level 20) of any element you choose (locked in when you choose the Feat) each time you strike. You can use it a number of times a day equal to your class level, so 1/day at Level 1, 20/day at level 20. Monks at level 20 with a Flurry of Blows (and under the effects of, say, a ring of Divine Power) can do 7 attacks a round dealing 2d10+STR+what the hells ever per hit. They can also, with Draconic Fist, deal 4d6 (insert element here) on each hit. Now, granted, at level 20 you only get 2 full FoB usage out of it, sure. But that's (assuming 10STR, no other bonuses, and Medium sized Monk) (2d10+4d6)*7 = 154 max potential damage, with no crits, and 304 assuming every hit crits. Add in a STR of 20 and gloves/handwraps that deal only 1d6 extra damage, and your damage shoots up to 175 max damage with no crit, and assuming every hit crits, that's 315.

154-304 or 175-315 max potential damage for a Monk at level 20, without wielding a weapon. Draconic Fist is pretty damn good. It's better than Stunning Fist. And this was without getting stupid with a Monk's Belt or stupidly powerful Handwraps. And don't get me ****ing started on Epic Weapon enchantments for handwraps....

Read it again. Its a swift action so only 1/round and affects only your next unarmed attack. So at level 20 you add 14 average damage, which is energy damage which is one of the most resisted kinds of damage in the game.

[Thurbane]

Read it again. Its a swift action so only 1/round and affects only your next unarmed attack. So at level 20 you add 14 average damage, which is energy damage which is one of the most resisted kinds of damage in the game.

That IS underwhelming.

Maybe it should be house-ruled to last 1 minute per point of Wis bonus, or 1 round per character level...

[Zaq]

Plus, it gives up Stunning Fist, which is about the one semi-interesting offensive option a monk gets from their class. If you’re actually being a monk (as opposed to just dipping to pick up some nice prereqs) and you don’t have Stunning Fist, I have to ask exactly what you think you’re accomplishing with your attacks most of the time. At least “save or lose a turn” is a good rider effect to tack onto an attack, even if it encourages MADness.

It would theoretically be possible to get a damaging effect that offers sufficient return on investment to be worth the opportunity cost of losing SF, but Draconic Fist is, sadly, not that option. Too slow to scale, too easily resisted, too obnoxious on action economy.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread Necromancy should be avoided here.