Opinions on balance issues - adding extra feats

[KoDT69]

OK so after years of hiatus that extraplanar call to D&D has manifested yet again. I did some of my own changes to the PHB base classes adding feats and class features extra helpings on the melee guys because we all know they need more options. That campaign was fun and the players loved my revamp, but I had encounters suited for 16th level characters getting wrecked by 7th levels. Maybe it was the party size? But I'd like opinions on how much you all think balance is affected. For example I had Fighters getting a bonus feat every level, Rogues got a bonus feat every 4th and a Special Ability at 7th level, and I think maybe the most love to the Sorcerer who got a bonus feat every 5th level, the Warlock's Eldritch Blast ability, and dropped that slow metamagic thing that never made sense. Any of this seem like balance scale tippers? Or are a party of 8 just tougher than I thought?

[Fizban]

Not enough data for balance evaluation (that would require the builds of each party member as well as their encounters)- but yeah, party of 8 pretty much completely annihilates any semblance of balance. The game is designed for a particular 4 man party, even if you keep to the same ratios an 8 man party still has twice as much of the abilities that don't care how many foes you are fighting. Thus, unless you can split the party/battle into multiple fronts and force them to essentially act as a pair of parallel 4 man parties, trying to balance an 8 man party is trying to re-balance the entire game.

As for your individual fixes, they indicate a more high powered style than I prefer. Sorcerer does need some feats or features, but does not need eldritch blast. Fighter could use more feats- mostly because it'd be nice to more easily afford some number boosting and defenses, but unspecified bonus feats tend to attract the exact opposite. The Rogue notes are very minor, about even with a basic prestige class really, since a lot of those just give you Rogue special abilities earlier or in a different order along with whatever their main draw is. What I can guarantee you, is that unless your problem was Fighters with every feat combo simultaneously (as in ubercharging and ubertripping at the same time as soon as build-ably possible), those adjustments are not why the party was punching 8 levels beyond their weight.

[zlefin]

no, none of those should tip the balance that much. or even much at all, at least insofar as they have been described.
most of those bonuses are less than what pathfinder did to the classes.

having 8 people instead of 4 is supposed to increase the CR of encounters they can take on by +2. so that wouldn't account for the difference; and facing mcuh higher end foes puts them at risk of getting some individual party members one-shotted.

so the party is only level 7? and facing things at CR 16?
disparities like that are usually the result of high optimization parties fighting the unoptimized monsters found in the manuals. often it also involves those monsters not using good combat tactics, though that has a lesser effect.

[death390]

8 man party would be the most balance destroying thing there.

a base form eldritch blast is basically just a free reserve feat that is element-less, IE accidic splatter. unless you game the sorc the EB add-ons' that wouldn't have had much effect. the quick meta also not likely to have an effect due to basically just costing a feat. as stated above sorc desperately needed more class features so also not likely to break.

fighters need more love (all mundanes do) free feats really wouldn't help much. eventually he would have run out of bonus feats to max himself out and had to branch.

[emeraldstreak]

8 v 4 is 100% more damage done, and 100% more damage taken before loss of capability, for a total of a party four times as strong as the 4-men party the game is balanced for.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Your changes seem fairly reasonable. An eight-person party is a major power increase over the expected four person, but not to that extent... what sort of encounters were you throwing at them?

[KoDT69]

So you all understand I started in old AD&D in the early 90's. Our games seemed pretty balanced toward 6 player parties and we're pretty easy to adjust for. It really ended up being a big old slugfest. We had many combats last 6 hours and still be fun.

That being said when dealing with 3.5 to keep the realism I give all the monsters and enemies max hit points and d10 hit die at the lowest. If there were really Ogres with like 20hp there's no reason for commoners to hire PCs to take care of them.

One particular offending encounter was something like 3 Devil Hellcats advanced to 24HD mind you at around 300hp each. They were meant to keep the players inside the village 1 more night to get some valuable info to the campaign. Most of the characters are decently optimized as I encouraged originally thinking only 4 or 5 at a time would be able to play. They figured out on their own that a couple of them have good synergies and the Uber charger has been played well for timing and not leaving herself in a bad situation.

I'm really just wondering if a few extra feats and stuff would have made such a difference? Heck, maybe Hellcats are not mean enough, but they fit the story perfectly.

[martixy]

I believe it's your 8 man team that's wrecking the balance - it's not even just about the 8 full round actions their team possesses every round.

There are only so many combat roles one can have, and with 8 people some are bound to overlap. So for any given situation you will probably have multiple people with the right solution, which means multiple rolls and a greater chances of someone succeeding.