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Jimmy Discordia
2007-08-20, 09:24 AM
A random thought I had about the spell rope trick...

We know that rope trick creates an extradimensional space resistant to scrying effects that can't cross planes, impervious to spells including area effects, so on and so forth. However, creatures don't suffocate inside a rope trick the way they do in a bag of holding, so one assumes that air passes freely through the window. My question is this: can the creatures inside a rope trick be, literally or figuratively, "smoked out"?

Basically, the idea is that if you have reason to believe someone in the room is hiding inside a rope trick, you do something to make the air in said room unbreathable. A large fire set indoors should do the trick, or perhaps some kind of poison gas or other non-magical effect that makes the air surrounding the invisible window unbreathable. Would this be sufficient to coax the people inside the extradimensional space out (or kill them, if they don't notice in time), or does the air inside a rope trick replenish itself?

This could lead to some interesting tactics... "Okay, boys, we suspect there are adventurers hiding in a pocket dimension here... start a fire and seal the exits." :smallsmile:

leperkhaun
2007-08-20, 09:38 AM
From my reading of the spell, the spell generates enough air for the people in it.

Now that isnt to say that the guys laying in wait cant just camp out or trap the entire area. However the main concern to most decent level parties is thier bags of holding and what not. Normally it wouldnt be a big deal, but the spell specifically mentions that.

MrNexx
2007-08-20, 09:58 AM
I see nothing in the spell description to indicate that it creates air; in fact, the opening is described as a 3'*5' window, through which people inside can look out and spells cannot be cast (presumably because they have to cross a dimensional barrier.

The only problem I see with your idea from the spell description is that area effects do not cross it. I, however, would say that environmental effects (like smoke), would work just fine. Otherwise, Rope Trick can be used as a diving bubble... cast it and climb in to breathe, then dive out of it. If someone opened a container of air in the EDS, I would allow that to keep smoke out, however (creating a pressurized room).

Jimmy Discordia
2007-08-20, 10:08 AM
I see nothing in the spell description to indicate that it creates air; in fact, the opening is described as a 3'*5' window, through which people inside can look out and spells cannot be cast (presumably because they have to cross a dimensional barrier.

The only problem I see with your idea from the spell description is that area effects do not cross it. I, however, would say that environmental effects (like smoke), would work just fine. Otherwise, Rope Trick can be used as a diving bubble... cast it and climb in to breathe, then dive out of it. If someone opened a container of air in the EDS, I would allow that to keep smoke out, however (creating a pressurized room).

Yeah, that was my thought... smoke isn't an area effect so much as it is an environmental effect, as is poison gas, etc. Even if the smoke wouldn't cross the boundary, if we're assuming that air does cross the boundary, burning the oxygen out of an enclosed space would still kill the people inside the rope trick. The pressurized room option for those inside the extradimensional space was something I hadn't thought of, but it makes sense, and will probably become essential if my villains start to work out that they can kill people inside a rope trick by making the air unbreathable.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-08-20, 10:12 AM
Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.

Since it says NOR can area effects cross it, then it is specifically mentioning non-magical area effects, since it already specifically excludes magic. So I would say the smoke would not come in. It is a non-permeable extra-dimensional pocket.

And as for using it as a diving helmet... the problem is that it doesn't move. At all. You need a new one if you want it somewhere else. You can shinny up into it underwater, and be just fine, but now you're pretty much stuck there unless you got some way of getting back out of the water.

Ditto
2007-08-20, 10:47 AM
The NOR does not necessarily rule out environmental effects; it could still be referencing spells with AoE. Technically, you're casting the fireball at the wall 10 ft to the left, not at the Rope trick. Thus, a spell that is not directly cast through the dimensional barrier but could reasonably spit fire through the aperture - were it not for that specific prohibition. I'm inclined to think that air flows freely from the Rope Trick in and out of the real world, but it's definitely unclear. Clever trick!

EDIT Re: Diving bell - If you have 25 ft. of tubing (for snorkling action), you can go down 25 ft before being out of air. With Rope Trick interpreted this way, you can go down as far as you can dive, THEN cast, giving you a jumping off point and 25ft radius from the deepwater Rope Trick. It would definitely be an advantage, even if it's not mobile.

Machete
2007-08-20, 11:31 AM
I'm not sure about environmental effects.


I see nothing in the spell description to indicate that it creates air; in fact, the opening is described as a 3'*5' window, through which people inside can look out and spells cannot be cast (presumably because they have to cross a dimensional barrier.



Hmmm. Transdimensional Spell Feat + Rope Trick = PWNAGE BY SHOOTING THROUGH THE WALLS?

MrNexx
2007-08-20, 12:48 PM
Hmmm. Transdimensional Spell Feat + Rope Trick = PWNAGE BY SHOOTING THROUGH THE WALLS?

Specifically mentioned in Transdimensional Spell's description is shooting into a Rope Trick; I don't see why you couldn't shoot out, as well.

Jimmy Discordia
2007-08-20, 02:21 PM
Specifically mentioned in Transdimensional Spell's description is shooting into a Rope Trick; I don't see why you couldn't shoot out, as well.

This sounds like a cool trick... where do you find Transdimensional Spell? I probably have the book around here somewhere, but I don't really want to page through everything I own to find it.

Amiria
2007-08-20, 04:11 PM
This sounds like a cool trick... where do you find Transdimensional Spell? I probably have the book around here somewhere, but I don't really want to page through everything I own to find it.

It is a metamagick feat. Complete Arcane, page 84.