Goku like character

[Jesus2]

I'm wanting to make a character based off of the original Dragonball anime. The 12yr old human or Vanara who shots a small kamehameha every now and then. I either want to be beating up baddies with my hands or using a quarterstaff. I might even be able to talk the DM into letting me have a magical extending staff. STR to the max, decent CON, par DEX, and dump the rest. I'll also be dumping Init, Perc, and all knowledge skills. I'll be tossing all my skills points in Acrobatics, fly, climb, swim, and possibly Intimidate.

There are a few classes I could go with but I figured someone on here is bound to know the best way to get a powerful unarmed melee character or one with a quarterstaff.


For races, either:
Human with the werewolf infliction would work great
Vanara is a great option too and they have a climb speed of 20ft.

For classes, either:
Barbarian- great as Goku rage's ALOT even going saiyan
Monk/unchained Monk- great as they throw hands and build Ki but they're underpowered correct?
Soulbolt(a Soulknife achetype)- Never heard of them until 5minutes ago. Might be too blast centra? Also their blasts seem to be weak.
Kineticist- Never heard of these guys either but it seems like they are blast centra as well. I did read that they could create dimensional doors and that would fit nicely with the teleporting speed of Goku.

[ATHATH]

Are you playing in a Pathfinder game, a 3.5 game, or a 3.PF game?

[skunk3]

Monks unfortunately suck until you get pretty high level. Starting out is rough, but if you can keep a monk alive they eventually become godly IMO. (Although most people say they are weak.) I actually think Warlock would be a decent pick, with the eldritch blast, and certain invocations can be very DBZ-like if framed the right way. "Flee the Scene" would be almost like "Instant Transmission," etc.

[ATHATH]

but if you can keep a monk alive they eventually become godly IMO.
That's... debatable, to say the least.

Remember that you don't have to take levels in the Monk class in order to be a monk.

[CharonsHelper]

Try a Pathfinder Unchained Monk - and re-fluff Scorching Ray as the kamehameha wave.

Unlike 3.5 - the Unchained Monk is a very solid class - and they even have a low will save (totally fits Goku).

If you go with a Scaled Fist archetype you can use CHA instead of WIS - which also fits Goku since I don't see his Int or Wis as being particularly high.

[Sayt]

For a young Son Goku, I'd model him as a 6th or so level unchained or qinggong monk

[KillianHawkeye]

Unlike 3.5 - the Unchained Monk is a very solid class - and they even have a low will save (totally fits Goku).

I don't think I would say that Goku has a low Will save. He actually has a surprisingly strong will. In fact, Wisdom is probably his only good mental attribute. Goku clearly has lowish Intelligence and maybe average Charisma, and is extremely gullible and naive about a lot of things (especially during his early life), but he is a really good judge of character and is also very perceptive. He never gets scared, he never gives up, and I don't think he's ever been shown to be especially susceptible to mind control or similar magics.

As for building Goku in Pathfinder, I'm unfortunately not too familiar with all the various Monk and Brawler archetypes and variations, so I can't be a ton of help. As much as I like the Kineticist, I don't think it's that great for emulating Dragon Ball because it's too focused on elemental effects (compared to 3.5's Warlock, which I agree could be made to work). And despite the fact that Goku has been known to channel his anger into increases in strength and fighting prowess, Barbarian seems like a relatively poor fit for him. On the other hand, it might work if you can get yourself a bite attack out of it, since Goku does channel his inner animal at times and is known to use his teeth when he really gets in a tough bind.

I like Vanara as the race, as long as you give up on the full Oozaru form. Trying to do it with some kind of ape-lycanthrope just wouldn't live up to expectations (much like Goku's Oozaru form in the Dragon Ball: Evolution movie didn't live up to expectations). But I usually don't recommend trying to exactly copy a character from popular media, but rather to take one as inspiration and create something of your own that's merely based on an existing character. After all, your character's adventures won't be Goku's adventures (unless you're working with the DM to actually recreate Dragon Ball).

[daremetoidareyo]

human dire ape lycanthrope psychic warrior. easy.

[Malroth]

3.5 :

CG Human Warlock6/ Shou Disciple 5/Warblade 9
Take Eldritch claws and Beast Strike to punch like a truck. Eldritch blast to Kamehameha, Permanent Flight, Supernatural senses, Miss chance and a floating save bonus round out his tricks.

Pathfinder.

Egoist Psion4, Freestyle Fighter 4, Adaptive warrior 10, Any full bab 2

Psionics to blast, teleport, fly and sense things Freestyle fighter and Adaptive warrior to spontaneously get stronger mid fight

[Jesus2]

This is Pathfinder but if a 3rd party book is written, our DM is normally fine with us using it's contents.

Psychic Warrior sounds interesting and I am currently researching it. Can you expand on what you're thinking? The Meditant archtype like to be perfect other that the fact that its a VERY WIS based class. So I'll be maxing STR and WIS, while dumping everything else. I've never played a 10 or 11 CON character but it sounds like a pretty bad idea.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Spheres of Might’s Sage class

[Malroth]

Strongest stuff for Psionic warrior is Expansion, Psionic Lions charge and Metamorphosis, Direct damage powers pale in comparision to what Size stacking + unarmed strike optimization can churn out.

Also 20 is your number of distinct powers known, not your number of Powerpoints which is 127, so a psycic warrior using hammer as his attack using overchannel and empower could inflict 120 damage per round as a standard action 6 times with no stat bonuses to PP and a minimal feat investment

[weckar]

Clawlock/Kensei seems like a fun option for a build like this, does it not? Would by RAW have to be Lawful Evil though :smallfrown:

[Psyren]

3e/PF is not the best system for anime characters, especially the ones that can blow up planets, but we can get somewhat in the ballpark.

First off, I'd say Goku is Mythic, even in Dragonball - if not from the very beginning, then definitely by the time he drank the Ultra Divine Water, which would qualify as a Ascension Event. Goku's power is also fairly unrelated to his gear, so I would include Automatic Bonus Progression so that he can go more or less naked and still keep up with the game's math. Therefore a Mythic Unchained Monk using Automatic Bonus Progression should be a starting point to help you approximate him.

[Lapak]

I don't think I would say that Goku has a low Will save. He actually has a surprisingly strong will. In fact, Wisdom is probably his only good mental attribute. Goku clearly has lowish Intelligence and maybe average Charisma, and is extremely gullible and naive about a lot of things (especially during his early life), but he is a really good judge of character and is also very perceptive. He never gets scared, he never gives up, and I don't think he's ever been shown to be especially susceptible to mind control or similar magics.
Average CHA? For the guy where every other significant enemy eventually becomes a comrade-in-arms? (Seriously, of his fighting allies the only one that started off on his side is Krillin.) I’m almost tempted to say he should be a Diplomancer build if it could be squeezed into a Psychic Warrior progression or some such thing.

INT was for sure his dump stat, though. And while he clearly is a class with a good Will save his Sense Motive is *terrible* so he might indeed have low WIS.

[Psyren]

Average CHA? For the guy where every other significant enemy eventually becomes a comrade-in-arms? (Seriously, of his fighting allies the only one that started off on his side is Krillin.) I’m almost tempted to say he should be a Diplomancer build if it could be squeezed into a Psychic Warrior progression or some such thing.

He befriended them all through violence first though. That suggests his Diplomacy is actually not great. A Diplomancer is the guy who doesn't need to throw a punch to get you on his side.

(Also, every villain ever that he tried to convince to back down without a fight, he failed to do so.)



INT was for sure his dump stat, though. And while he clearly is a class with a good Will save his Sense Motive is *terrible* so he might indeed have low WIS.

Isn't Sense Motive the skill used to evaluate an enemy's CR (power level?)

[mistermysterio]

What if you used Path of War...? If your GM is fine with third party materials...

maybe make a warder specialized in broken blade primarily, and then use a martial tradition to get elemental flux. Broken blade gives lots of high-damage unarmed attacks and strikes, and elemental flux gives options to do ranged elemental strikes. For example, around level 7 you can pick up Arcane Torrent, which is a 4th level maneuver from elemental flux.

"You unleash a sudden burst of eldritch energy that surges towards a distant foe. When you initiate this strike, select a target within 60 feet. Magical missiles of explosive force swiftly fly at this target, dealing 6d6 points of force damage to the target unless it succeeds at a Reflex save (DC 14 + your initiation modifier).
Animus augmentation: You may spend two points of animus to instead fire a barrage of force missiles. Instead of this strike’s normal effect, you create a 15-foot burst within 60 feet of you, affecting each creature within its area as if you had targeted them."

Just refluff some of the ranged stuff to be more in tune with kamehameha.

Warlord would be a more fitting pick than warder (CHA-based, reckless fighter vs. INT-based defensive fighter), but it doesn't come with either of the disciplines I mentioned... so you'd need 2 martial traditions to make it fit.

[Gruftzwerg]

I would also suggest a clawlock to emulate this

monk2/warlock3 and as prc Enlightened Fist to progress monks unarmed strike & warlock invocations/EB. Barb 1 for the obvious Pounce ACF.

Empowered Unarmed Strikes (Eldritch Claw + Beast Strike) & at-will Kamehamehas (Eldritch Blast). Later you can pick Fell Flight and get 24h fly.

If you are interested into a full clawlock build, see my signature. Can be easily re-fluffed into a Saiyajin.

[KillianHawkeye]

Average CHA? For the guy where every other significant enemy eventually becomes a comrade-in-arms? (Seriously, of his fighting allies the only one that started off on his side is Krillin.) I’m almost tempted to say he should be a Diplomancer build if it could be squeezed into a Psychic Warrior progression or some such thing.

Yeah, but they mostly joined for story reasons, not because Goku somehow convinced them to become good guys.

The majority of them became friends because Goku's good-heartedness, determination, and fighting skill won their respect. Piccolo pretty much just became a hero because of Gohan. Android 18 only joined because of Krillen. And of course, Vegeta only joined in order to someday prove his superiority, and he really straddled the line between good and bad until pretty much the end of the series.

If anything, I'd peg Vegeta as having a higher Charisma (although he put all his points in Intimidate and none in Diplomacy).

[Starbuck_II]

Pathfinder:
Air Kineticist? It can fly/shoot/etc.
Reflavor air blasts as Ki blasts.

[Malroth]

I would reccomend pretty much anything else before i reccomend Kineticist. They're a subpar blaster with no real abilities besides blasting and essentially deal CON damage to themselves just to keep up with the damage a no ranged feats fighter is doing with an unenchanted bow.

[EldritchWeaver]

Monks unfortunately suck until you get pretty high level.

Fixed that for you. Monks might be better playable at higher levels, but they are still bad and will suffer compared to the other classes, especially any casters.


Spheres of Might’s Sage class

The sage is found in the Champions of the Spheres, not in the base book. I'm not sure if that is a good suggestion outside that is a literal blaster, since IIRC it has only a d6 hit dice. Instead I would propose going the Armorist route, with the Living Weapon archetype in the Protection playtest HB. That way you get a monk-like base. For the blasting I would suggest to look at the Blaster archetype and take the base feature as a home-brewed arsenal trick, since that one doesn't stack with Living Weapon.

[Florian]

Seconding ABP mythic unchained Monk (Hungry Ghost - Goku shines against other Ki users).

[RoboEmperor]

Quarterstaff or Unarmed Warlock. Infinite "Ki" blasts, at-will "Ki" flying. All they do in DB is energy balls, energy beams, and explosions. Warlock has them all.
Downside: At-Will blasting means no melee. Why would you punch something when you can just blast them?

Orb of Force and Magic Missile Spamming Sorcerer. Limited "Ki" blasts and "Ki" beams, limited "Ki" flying. Can replicate all the DB stuff. Also can be a SAD Monk with ascetic mage. Also has Polymorph to transform into a gorilla, and certain buff spells can substitute super saiyan.
Downside: Not "optimized". This is a sub-optimal gish. It can pull its own weight against everything that is not high-op or higher.

Pure Cleric built for unarmed combat. Even more buff-tastic than sorcerers, doesn't lose any spellcasting level, and you can go the spontaneous variant from unearthed arcana. Nothing says super saiyan stacked with kaioken than divine power with haste and other buffs. Limited blasting options though, I believe they don't have access to orb spells or magic missile, but this guy can become an unarmed clericzilla and perform well even in the highest optimization circles.

[Gruftzwerg]

Quarterstaff or Unarmed Warlock. Infinite "Ki" blasts, at-will "Ki" flying. All they do in DB is energy balls, energy beams, and explosions. Warlock has them all.
Downside: At-Will blasting means no melee. Why would you punch something when you can just blast them?



Because your punches will do tons of dmg compared to your blasts pretty fast (on the lvl/optimization scale). Same as for Goku, he barley uses em, besides from a few scenarios where he gets powered up by his friends or the entire planet (= special non-class-related rituals). Most of the time he uses his supreme punches (compared to his "normal blasts").
Optimized Clawlocks will always outperform optimized Blastlocks in terms of dmg.
And why does at-will blasting mean "no melee"? Warlocks have some slight melee buffs compared to other casters (more HP, DR, light armor casting..). And if you go for the regular monk/warlock build for clawlocks, you have pretty decent melee capabilities.

[CharonsHelper]

Because your punches will do tons of dmg compared to your blasts pretty fast (on the lvl/optimization scale). Same as for Goku, he barley uses em, besides from a few scenarios where he gets powered up by his friends or the entire planet (= special non-class-related rituals). Most of the time he uses his supreme punches (compared to his "normal blasts").


To add to this - in Dragonball (rather than Z) Goku rarely used energy blasts at all. He also couldn't fly until the tail end of the series (I don't believe that he could until he was older than the 12yr old version the OP is trying to emulate).

[KillianHawkeye]

To add to this - in Dragonball (rather than Z) Goku rarely used energy blasts at all.

You're right. Before DBZ, Goku pretty much never used any kind of "generic" energy blasts. All he had was the Kamehameha, which is a finishing move in the sense that it's basically the strongest move he has but it takes a bit of time to charge up.


He also couldn't fly until the tail end of the series (I don't believe that he could until he was older than the 12yr old version the OP is trying to emulate).

You're half right. He didn't know ki flying until after he trained with Kami and came back to fight Piccolo Jr., but he did once fly by spinning his tail really fast in a helicopter-like fashion (to avoid a ring out during a tournament when his flying cloud wasn't an option).

[CharonsHelper]

but he did once fly by spinning his tail really fast in a helicopter-like fashion (to avoid a ring out during a tournament when his flying cloud wasn't an option).

So I was right about it being the tail end? :smallcool:

[RoboEmperor]

Because your punches will do tons of dmg compared to your blasts pretty fast (on the lvl/optimization scale). Same as for Goku, he barley uses em, besides from a few scenarios where he gets powered up by his friends or the entire planet (= special non-class-related rituals). Most of the time he uses his supreme punches (compared to his "normal blasts").
Optimized Clawlocks will always outperform optimized Blastlocks in terms of dmg.
And why does at-will blasting mean "no melee"? Warlocks have some slight melee buffs compared to other casters (more HP, DR, light armor casting..). And if you go for the regular monk/warlock build for clawlocks, you have pretty decent melee capabilities.

Goku doesn't use claws. He uses fists. Now whether these eldritch claws created by the warlock constitutes a violation of the build or not is up to the OP. If eldritch claws are not allowed due to being claws or Dragon Magazine content, there is no reason for a warlock to ever engage in melee.

It's been a while since I watched DB, but IIRC 14yo goku fought with a stick mostly, not his fists. Using a magic quarterstaff makes gish builds so much easier and this goku shouldn't be any different from any melee gish build out there. Kamehamaha = Lightning bolt. So it will be a gish build using quarterstaves and focusing its spells on buffs and lightning bolt.

Vow of Poverty also seems like a good fit seeing how goku doesn't ever use anything and instead has Bulma do everything for him.

[ATHATH]

Goku doesn't use claws. He uses fists. Now whether these eldritch claws created by the warlock constitutes a violation of the build or not is up to the OP. If eldritch claws are not allowed due to being claws or Dragon Magazine content, there is no reason for a warlock to ever engage in melee.

It's been a while since I watched DB, but IIRC 14yo goku fought with a stick mostly, not his fists. Using a magic quarterstaff makes gish builds so much easier and this goku shouldn't be any different from any melee gish build out there. Kamehamaha = Lightning bolt. So it will be a gish build using quarterstaves and focusing its spells on buffs and lightning bolt.

Vow of Poverty also seems like a good fit seeing how goku doesn't ever use anything and instead has Bulma do everything for him.
Remember: Fluff is mutable. Why not just refluff the Eldritch Claws as ki punches?

And taking Vow of Poverty is almost-always a terrible idea, even for characters that don't use many items.

[DMVerdandi]

I have 2 options for you, OP. And they depend on how cool your DM is.
Both are Vanara as race, because they are the mythological progenitors of the saiya race.

If your GM is AWESOME, he would let you use a Wilder//Zealot.

Now, really you want to focus on broken blade maneuvers when close, and Energy push [ehem, kamehameha] for that ranged blast into oblivion. Zealot doesn't natively have broken blade, so it's a feat tax to get access to the school. Feats should be spent solely on expanded knowledge to grab as many powers from the psychic warrior as possible.

As for the wilder, choosing the raging surge option makes it so that as long as you wild surge in a rage, you get that round of rage for free. Granted, you can only wild surge in a rage now, but it REALLY gives that feeling that your sentoryouku is rising with your waku waku, nah mean?


Zealot might not seem like it fits, BUT, Goku has such a single minded devotion to fighting stronger enemies, that he routinely endangers the universe, as do most of the saiyans. Battle is that single minded focus. Secondly it has collective, as well as a few other class features that actually do a pretty good job of doing the whole friendship is power thing/ genki dama thing.







If your GM is not cool (doesn't allow gestalt or DSP material), there is always making a druid, and using burning fingers or somthin like that. Turn into dire ape, etc. this one doesn't SUPER excite me.




An unexpected dark horse is the Vigilante class using the Warlock Archetype. That one is actually pretty awesome. Not as awesome as the wilder//zealot by far, but awesome still.

[Jesus2]

I would rather be able to punch things really hard or whack them with my staff. Goku's Kamehameha really isn't established until he is 14ish. At 12, all his Kamehameha could do was put a dime-sized hole in the wall

This character would be starting at 6 and getting up to level 16ish. I'll need to research a bit on a few different classes and see who is hitting the hardest per round at lvl 10-16. So far I really like the Meditant Psychic Warrior as this would start out with a 1d8 punch that increases with level as well as Fury of strikes

[mistermysterio]

I would rather be able to punch things really hard or whack them with my staff. Goku's Kamehameha really isn't established until he is 14ish. At 12, all his Kamehameha could do was put a dime-sized hole in the wall

This character would be starting at 6 and getting up to level 16ish. I'll need to research a bit on a few different classes and see who is hitting the hardest per round at lvl 10-16. So far I really like the Meditant Psychic Warrior as this would start out with a 1d8 punch that increases with level as well as Fury of strikes

At level 6, using a Path of War class with broken blade, you could be using maneuvers that do up to 3 attacks at at FULL BaB -2, with +3d6 damage EACH. tough to match that at level 6 (Steel Flurry Strike).

Broken Blade specializes in unarmed combat AND monk weapons... i.e. the quarterstaff and punches would BOTH work well with broken blade.

I still think warlord is the best class option, but you'd need to take the regional trait: Unorthodox Method to swap it with one of the disciplines normally accessible to a warlord, OR take the Sultanate of Beggars martial tradition (have to be non-lawful and oppose slavers, bandits, and tyranny). Then, to pick up Elemental Flux, you'd have to add the Cagebreaker brotherhood martial tradition (or the unorthodox method trait) (have to be a chaotic alignment and be devoted to freedom)

Alternatively, you could go with warder or stalker as your class, and then pick up elemental flux via martial tradition or the trait. Veiled Moon and Riven Hourglass also have ranged touch-attack options, if you want something different from Elemental flux (though EF has the most). Riven Hourglass could be fun, since it deals with affecting and altering time, which some of Goku's abilities seemed to do.

Personally, I'd say go with a chaotic good or chaotic neutral Warlord and use the Unorthodox Method trait to swap Broken Blade for maybe Solar Wind. Then, later, you can "train" with Master Roshi and refluff him so that he's a master of the Cagebreakers (or refluff cagebreakers, etc.), and have him teach you Elemental flux to gain you access to the beam-type attacks, swapping out Scartlet Throne or Thrashing Dragon.

[Gruftzwerg]

I would rather be able to punch things really hard or whack them with my staff. Goku's Kamehameha really isn't established until he is 14ish. At 12, all his Kamehameha could do was put a dime-sized hole in the wall

This character would be starting at 6 and getting up to level 16ish. I'll need to research a bit on a few different classes and see who is hitting the hardest per round at lvl 10-16. So far I really like the Meditant Psychic Warrior as this would start out with a 1d8 punch that increases with level as well as Fury of strikes

I would suggest Monk 2 / Warlock 3 / Barb 1 to start at lvl 6. Later you can add Enlightened Fist lvls for unarmed strike & invocation/EB progress. Finish with some ubercharger related stuff and you are done.

As said have a look at my clawlock, skip the sneaky part and you have a good basis for the later SJJ (DBZ) lvls.

[DMVerdandi]

I would rather be able to punch things really hard or whack them with my staff. Goku's Kamehameha really isn't established until he is 14ish. At 12, all his Kamehameha could do was put a dime-sized hole in the wall

This character would be starting at 6 and getting up to level 16ish. I'll need to research a bit on a few different classes and see who is hitting the hardest per round at lvl 10-16. So far I really like the Meditant Psychic Warrior as this would start out with a 1d8 punch that increases with level as well as Fury of strikes

-You can punch things and whack them perfectly with that build. Trust me when I say this, but simply attacking is not the best. The great thing about maneuvers is you ARE attacking (at least with the strikes), but each one does something ELSE. And that isn't to say you aren't going to use your basic attack. You definitely will, but it gives little rider effects, which can help your deep strategic game a lil bit.


-Secondly, on the kamehameha development, you are right, but using energy push gets better as you gain more PP, and have a higher manifester level, so it grows with you. At first it ain't doing more than a sword strike, but at level 20, when you are using wild surge, and dumping any metapsionic feats on it, you are at least blowing someone through a wall (You won't ever get to the point where you are blowing up planets in this game)


-The thing about psychic warrior is that they don't have quick access to power points (not good). If they had a high floor and a low ceiling, they would be much better, but they have a low floor and low ceiling when it comes to power points, which ain't great. The longer it takes for you to become psychic, the less fulfilling it is to actually BE psychic.

Also, I don't think you can be a Pathwalker archetype and meditant at the same time, which is garbage, but pathwalker is SO much better.





General rule of thumb with 3.5/pf, Access to spells/powers and maneuvers is better than no access to spells and maneuvers, especially if there is mitigated cost to having them.

It might SEEM like you want to play something "simple", but the trap is that "simple" builds in this game are far more complex and hard to play due to the lack of options and depth. Often you meet roadblocks that cause you trouble simply because you don't have a solution to a problem. D20 is like being in a room with a plethora of locked doors.
They present you with two choices, have a large set of keys, or have one large key. Problem is, there is only one door with a large keyhole.





My initial build was on the "simple" side, and definitely more for fluff than crunch. Thing is, you can do COMPLETELY different crunch than the fluff entails.
You could play son goku's character, and still have sūn wūkong's power set for example (Which would have been much closer to a Arcanist than anything else). You could even play goku as an INT based manifester/caster, and still be clear. Goku is actually a genius, he's just not wise at ALL. So WIS should be his dump stat. He has shown that he can instantly learn moves, and is extremely creative in fighting, but he is also criminally focused on martial arts.

[skunk3]

I would suggest Monk 2 / Warlock 3 / Barb 1 to start at lvl 6. Later you can add Enlightened Fist lvls for unarmed strike & invocation/EB progress. Finish with some ubercharger related stuff and you are done.

As said have a look at my clawlock, skip the sneaky part and you have a good basis for the later SJJ (DBZ) lvls.

How does your clawlock have Fell Flight?

[Malroth]

Enlightened fist to advance warlock casting to lv 6

[RoboEmperor]

I would rather be able to punch things really hard or whack them with my staff. Goku's Kamehameha really isn't established until he is 14ish. At 12, all his Kamehameha could do was put a dime-sized hole in the wall

This character would be starting at 6 and getting up to level 16ish. I'll need to research a bit on a few different classes and see who is hitting the hardest per round at lvl 10-16. So far I really like the Meditant Psychic Warrior as this would start out with a 1d8 punch that increases with level as well as Fury of strikes

Uberchargers and Clericzillas hit the hardest per round with their fist. The latter can shoot out kamehamehas but the former can't. Monk dip ain't bad for clericzilla for flurry of blows. DMM:Persist Clerics is undoubtedly one of the best melee characters in the game.

This is why tier1 classes are popular, they can do everything lower tier classes can do better on top of additional stuff. If I was playing goku I'd go a deityless DMM:Persist cleric and loadup on buffs and lightning bolts. Punch everything into oblivion with insane amount of super strong punches and blast stuff occasionally with kamehameha. Oh and grab a domain that grants me polymorph to turn into a gorilla.

[KillianHawkeye]

Goku is actually a genius, he's just not wise at ALL. So WIS should be his dump stat. He has shown that he can instantly learn moves, and is extremely creative in fighting, but he is also criminally focused on martial arts.

I mean... he's a genius at fighting and literally nothing else. I wouldn't call that Intelligence the way D&D-style games define it. I think that Wisdom actually fits him better. He's basically high Wisdom with a Naivety flaw. But really, his non-physical strengths aren't well described by D&D ability scores, because they're stuff like "bravery" and "purity" and "uncompromising" and "self-sacrificing" and "sees the best in others".

[RoboEmperor]

I mean... he's a genius at fighting and literally nothing else. I wouldn't call that Intelligence the way D&D-style games define it. I think that Wisdom actually fits him better. He's basically high Wisdom with a Naivety flaw. But really, his non-physical strengths aren't well described by D&D ability scores, because they're stuff like "bravery" and "purity" and "uncompromising" and "self-sacrificing" and "sees the best in others".

Goku is not a genius at fighting. Frieza is.

Anyways smart people have high WISDOM too. Wisdom is your ability to perceive/notice things. Low WIS means you fight blindly. High WIS means you notice opponent's weaknesses, behavior, etc., and you use intelligence to analyze such behavior and use it to your advantage.

Goku is highly observant about fighting, but oblivious to everything else so... d&d system fails for him.

[Gruftzwerg]

Trust me when I say this, but simply attacking is not the best. The great thing about maneuvers is you ARE attacking (at least with the strikes), but each one does something ELSE. And that isn't to say you aren't going to use your basic attack. You definitely will, but it gives little rider effects, which can help your deep strategic game a lil bit.


I agree that "simply attacking" builds don't really work well.
That's the reason why you should build more complex and flexible "melee attackers". The most common mistake I see on melee builds is, that people forget to build/itemize to cover their weaknesses.

Most melee builds are ubercharger related. And the big problem is, that under normal circumstances you won't have much opportunities to charge enemies due to terrain, no straight line, or because the enemy is already next to you. But what you want is to unleash your full dmg every turn under every condition/situation.

All that can be covered with either:
- items for swift short range teleport or extra move action
or
- Travel Devotion
or
- Drunken Master 2 - Stagger ability (lets you freely change directions while charging + a single DC15 tumble check to avoid any AoO due to moving).


While the Stagger ability costs you 2lvls in DM, imho it is the best ability that emulates Gokus later fighting style:

Pounce/Dive at your enemy > unleach full attack > next round make a looping to pounce/dive the same enemy again for a ubercharged full attack.

This moving in&out movement can be seen, starting with DBZ when he accesses fly, all the time and imho is mandatory to their fighting style.


How does your clawlock have Fell Flight?

As Malroth already pointed out, Enlightened Fist helps here.
I would like to point out here that EF is the sole prc that progresses Eldritch Blast/Invocations & monks unarmed strike at the same time. Imho it is unavoidable for clawlocks and a must have (even if some of the abilities don't work with invocations by RAW or without DM fiat. but you don't need them anyway. you just need the progress of the prc).


Uberchargers and Clericzillas hit the hardest per round with their fist. The latter can shoot out kamehamehas but the former can't.

I guess you missed the ubercharger clawlock part ;) because they can hit/punch hard and still can shoot Kamehamehas. Maybe not very effective but imho Goku also ain't very effective in it unless he gets help due to (non-class-related-)ritual with his friends or the entire planet..^^

[ericgrau]

I think whatever build it is should focus on hitting stuff. Goku can learn tricks almost instantly but he doesn't use them very often because hitting hard is usually more effective for him. He's more about being super strong. Any ki stuff could be done with minor casting or items.

Maybe a build to get really high strength and hit hard, plus some minor ki stuff on the side. I suppose you can still attack objects with a high damage build.

Kamehameha is actually stronger than his punches but he doesn't use it that often because it drains him. Especially at age 12 it's not as great and it's more draining. Maybe some kind of limited per day ability.

[JyP]

In Iron Chef LXXII - Spellfire Channeler, I did a build which used Spellfire Channeler to explain kamehameha and various saiyan abilities :

Kakarotto the Saiyan Whelp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19856025&postcount=219)

=> it used Spriggan, to have a Small character able to grow to large size (as Goku at the end of first book)

=> it scaled well over 20 levels, gaining flight near the end - so it covered 12 first Dragon Ball books.

=> main weakness however was the lack of martial ability in this build.

I would tend to use this build as one leg of a gestalt - for saiyan innate powers - and use a ToB martial class as the other leg of the gestalt, for better results :smallsmile:

[RoboEmperor]

I guess you missed the ubercharger clawlock part ;) because they can hit/punch hard and still can shoot Kamehamehas. Maybe not very effective but imho Goku also ain't very effective in it unless he gets help due to (non-class-related-)ritual with his friends or the entire planet..^^

I'm not too familiar with clawlocks and I don't know if they work with ubercharging. If they do then awesome. When one thinks of an ubercharger one usually thinks of a barbarian or fighter.

So the difference between ubercharger and cleric is... one punch man v.s. multiple punches. I think haste + flurry of blows + full BAB from divine power fits goku more than super punch.

[Gruftzwerg]

I'm not too familiar with clawlocks and I don't know if they work with ubercharging. If they do then awesome. When one thinks of an ubercharger one usually thinks of a barbarian or fighter.

So the difference between ubercharger and cleric is... one punch man v.s. multiple punches. I think haste + flurry of blows + full BAB from divine power fits goku more than super punch.

The cleric either needs to prebuff and wastes 2 rounds of full attacks (compare to pounce ubercharger) or high lvl cheese for permabuffs.
While the clawlock can invest his feats into twf feat line and still have more attacks than a buff focused cleric gish.
Further the limited resources (unless permabuffs) doesn't fit Gokus enormous stamina imho.

[mistermysterio]

this is pathfinder though... so there isn't really a warlock class (unless you look at the vigilante archetype, witch archetype, or adamant entertainment third party?)

He could port over from 3.5 perhaps...

I still say that warlord specialized in broken blade and elemental flux is best! ;)

[torrasque666]

I mean, as far as Goku being wise and all, he's wise enough to realize why the Buff Super Saiyan is a bad form.

[Psyren]

He's a savant when it comes to fighting, but that's less indicative of his mental stats as a whole and more due to him maxing out the Martial Lore skill or similar. In other words, his dedication to a single subject is thorough enough to compensate for his more general lack of genius.

[RoboEmperor]

The cleric either needs to prebuff and wastes 2 rounds of full attacks (compare to pounce ubercharger) or high lvl cheese for permabuffs.
While the clawlock can invest his feats into twf feat line and still have more attacks than a buff focused cleric gish.
Further the limited resources (unless permabuffs) doesn't fit Gokus enormous stamina imho.

Clericzilla is DMM:Persist, and it's not high level cheese. It's nightstick cheese. persist can be achieved low to mid levels.

I'm not sure about DB, but pre-buffing totally fits DBZ.

"I haven't shown my full power yet!"
"Ok show me."
"GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"
10min later
"AHAHAHHAA I AM NOW AT FULL POWER"

[Gruftzwerg]

Clericzilla is DMM:Persist, and it's not high level cheese. It's nightstick cheese. persist can be achieved low to mid levels.


Sry, I guess I caused a misunderstanding here..^^

I meant "high lvl/grade of cheese", not the character lvl. I haven't played on any table that plays on that "cheese lvl" and would allow nightsticks. Just my observation, that there ain't that much people that play with so much cheese, but maybe just my impression.


He's a savant when it comes to fighting, but that's less indicative of his mental stats as a whole and more due to him maxing out the Martial Lore skill or similar. In other words, his dedication to a single subject is thorough enough to compensate for his more general lack of genius.

Totally agree here. Just give him "Knowledge: Martial Arts" to show his dedication about Martial Art lore and knowledge.

[KillianHawkeye]

Goku is not a genius at fighting. Frieza is.

Well, I suppose they both are.

But Goku is the guy who can copy somebody's technique after only seeing it once. He's the guy who can find a flaw or a weakness in somebody's "unstoppable move" and not only understands why it's not actually unstoppable but also how to counter that move after only seeing it twice. He's the guy who's come up with a dozen variants of the Kamehameha and consistently comes up with unconventional fighting strategies on the fly to snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat. He's the guy who intentionally handicaps himself by choosing to withhold the use of his full powers just to make a fight more interesting, keeping several aces up his sleeves until they're actually needed, because otherwise an ordinary fight would be too boring for him. He's the guy who is constantly thinking about fighting no matter what else is going on, or is constantly training himself for the next fight even when there's no big, dangerous enemy looming on the horizon. He quite simply lives and breathes fighting all day every day.

You can't say that Goku is not a fighting genius.