The Urge To Theurge

[AvatarVecna]

So, putting together a character for a mid-level game, and ended up drifting towards wizard/cleric/MT due to what our party's currently lacking. Since the game is planned out quite a ways, I figured I'd put a bit of thought into what happens next, and most of what I come up with involves "and from this point onward forever regret you ever took Mystic Theurge".

Let's say we're looking at a (somehow, I'm already asking DM about some methods to get this) Wizard 2/Cleric 1/MT X. Once I hit lvl 14, I'm W2/C1/MT10, and have 7 levels to fill before I can take Epic MT. What should I take? My current real thought is just push everything into Wizard and essentially be a Wizard who fell one spell level behind in exchange for Cleric 11 casting on the side (not such a bad thing), but this is dependent on approved early entry. Even if I have to go 3/3/10, that leaves 4 levels that would need to be filled before Epic MT is available. Is there another MT-like PrC out there in Pathfinder that will serve my purposes, or should I resign those spells to be not quite as great as the rest?

[ATHATH]

Behold, your salvation!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist/

[grarrrg]

Behold, your salvation!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist/

This is a very rules-gray area at best. ASK YOUR DM

The first issue is whether it should combine with PrC's at all.
The bigger issue is that once you hit level 10 of Mystic Theurge there are no more levels for Evangelist to "stack" with. 11 levels of Mystic Theurge is identical to 10 levels of Mystic Theurge, nothing is there to be gained.

But then comes the rebuttal about 'oh, they have rules for this'
"Class abilities that have a set, increasing rate, such as a barbarian’s damage reduction, a fighter’s bonus feats and weapon training, a paladin’s smite evil, or a rogue’s sneak attack continue to progress at the appropriate rate."

But but, that quote is in the "Advancing Beyond 20th Level" section, with an intro that talks about 'yeah, we really don't recommend this, but we know you people like "epic" games and whatever, and we can't stop you so we're throwing in a couple paragraphs to appease you'.
And applying such rules to a sub-20 game shouldn't be done.

But but but, Mystic Theurge is a fairly weak option overall, especially with the horrible entry reqs (classically Wiz 3/Cleric 3).

But but but but, the DM has (potentially) already approved early entry, so a "boost" isn't necessarily needed anymore.

But but but but but,...
End result is ASK YOUR DM if they will let Evangelist stack with Mystic Theurge or not.

[ATHATH]

This is a very rules-gray area at best. ASK YOUR DM

The first issue is whether it should combine with PrC's at all.
The bigger issue is that once you hit level 10 of Mystic Theurge there are no more levels for Evangelist to "stack" with. 11 levels of Mystic Theurge is identical to 10 levels of Mystic Theurge, nothing is there to be gained.

But then comes the rebuttal about 'oh, they have rules for this'
"Class abilities that have a set, increasing rate, such as a barbarian’s damage reduction, a fighter’s bonus feats and weapon training, a paladin’s smite evil, or a rogue’s sneak attack continue to progress at the appropriate rate."

But but, that quote is in the "Advancing Beyond 20th Level" section, with an intro that talks about 'yeah, we really don't recommend this, but we know you people like "epic" games and whatever, and we can't stop you so we're throwing in a couple paragraphs to appease you'.
And applying such rules to a sub-20 game shouldn't be done.

But but but, Mystic Theurge is a fairly weak option overall, especially with the horrible entry reqs (classically Wiz 3/Cleric 3).

But but but but, the DM has (potentially) already approved early entry, so a "boost" isn't necessarily needed anymore.

But but but but but,...
End result is ASK YOUR DM if they will let Evangelist stack with Mystic Theurge or not.
Isn't this sort of the same debate that 3.5's Legacy Champion PrC sparks?

[Psyren]

Isn't this sort of the same debate that 3.5's Legacy Champion PrC sparks?

Yes and there's table variation there too.

Anyway, rather than weigh in on that particular debate I'll point out that Pathfinder has another boon for Mystic Theurges, in the form of the guild benefits Eclectic Training and Esoteric Training from Inner Sea Magic. These two boons enable a character to get +3/+1 caster progression (including spell progression, not just caster level) to any two spellcasting classes, thus letting you hit dual 9s. Wiz 3/Clr3/MT 10/Wiz+1/Clr+3 will get you to Wiz 14/Clr 16. Apply the +3 from your primary bonus to Wiz, and the +1 from your secondary to Cleric, and you top out at Wiz 17/Clr 17 for dual 9s.

[Kurald Galain]

essentially be a Wizard who fell one spell level behind in exchange for Cleric 11 casting on the side (not such a bad thing)
That's pretty good actually, I don't see how you'll "forever regret this" as you say.

There are a couple nice PrCs that boost one side of casting and add other abilities (e.g. Stargazer), but not any others that boost both sides (except what's already mentioned, and expect table variation on those).

But, since this is Pathfinder, you've got some other options to consider. For example, instead of cleric, go Warpriest. Two levels of warpriest lets you quicken any divine spell cast on yourself; this is great since the biggest limitation on the MT is action economy. Or, instead of cleric, be an Inquisitor with the Living Grimoire archetype: now both sides of your casting are based on intelligence, plus you get to whack people with a giant book. Conversely, instead of wizard, play a sorcerer with the Empyreal bloodline: now you fully cast based on wisdom.

The easiest early entry trick in PF is taking the feat Equipment Trick (Sunrod) which explicitly lets any spell with the light descriptor count as one spell level higher for all purposes.

[Endarire]

Does your GM let you take Mystic Theurge for casting past MT10?

[Lazymancer]

So, putting together a character for a mid-level game, and ended up drifting towards wizard/cleric/MT due to what our party's currently lacking. Since the game is planned out quite a ways, I figured I'd put a bit of thought into what happens next, and most of what I come up with involves "and from this point onward forever regret you ever took Mystic Theurge".
First and foremost, did you consider simply going Spell Sage (wizard archetype)?

I know, it's not MT, but (imo) solves many problems caused by lack of divine caster.

[Florian]

So, putting together a character for a mid-level game, and ended up drifting towards wizard/cleric/MT due to what our party's currently lacking. Since the game is planned out quite a ways, I figured I'd put a bit of thought into what happens next, and most of what I come up with involves "and from this point onward forever regret you ever took Mystic Theurge".

Let's say we're looking at a (somehow, I'm already asking DM about some methods to get this) Wizard 2/Cleric 1/MT X. Once I hit lvl 14, I'm W2/C1/MT10, and have 7 levels to fill before I can take Epic MT. What should I take? My current real thought is just push everything into Wizard and essentially be a Wizard who fell one spell level behind in exchange for Cleric 11 casting on the side (not such a bad thing), but this is dependent on approved early entry. Even if I have to go 3/3/10, that leaves 4 levels that would need to be filled before Epic MT is available. Is there another MT-like PrC out there in Pathfinder that will serve my purposes, or should I resign those spells to be not quite as great as the rest?

Don´t go Cleric/Wizard and don´t aim for early entry too hard, period.

As Psyren pointed out, academy membership can get you +1/+3 effective level, while being a H-Elf with the Bifurcated Magic racial trait gives a +1 bonus to CL of two casting classes.

Now the Arcanist (Magaambyan Initiate) can already plunder the Druid spell list from the start, while the Magaambyan Arcanist PrC can also use spells from the Good domain. That by itself will lead to 9/9 (measured in what level of wizard and druid spells you can access in the end), but with only one set of spell slots.

Throw in a level of Oracle and round out with MT levels, to simply get more spell slots for the stuff that is always useful, like Protection from X, then switch to Stargazer PrC once you hit epic levels.

So, basically: Arcanist (MI) 3 > Oracle 1 (add said +1 to A and +3 to O) > MT 6 > Magaambyan Arcanist 10 > Stargazer E1+

[BearonVonMu]

So I know this isn't precisely what you were looking for, but it has a possibility of being a good fit: Kobold Press has a class on the Pathfinder SRD called Theurge.
It is a base class and is basically "Mystic Theurge in a can". It has progression to level 20, does not lose spell levels, and isn't a bad little class.
Take a look. It has its limitations, but I figure it should be mentioned in passing in Mystic Theurge discussions.