So asking experienced players... Sorching Rays better than Shatter?

[samcifer]

So I finally gained access to vl. 2 spells on my divine soul/hexblade character and after looking over Scorching Rays and Shatter, and SR seems like a better spell to go for, but as I'm still fairly new to the game, I wanted some feedback from experienced players who can let me know if I made the correct choice.

[bloodhawk]

Neither is a bad spell, depending on what you want to do. Scorching ray is pretty good for single target damage, while shatter is better for AOE damage. I'd pick whatever fills the gaps in what you already have - for example, if you're already character level 5+ and have eldritch blast and the agonizing blast invocation, scorching ray might be slightly less attractive.

[Galactkaktus]

Hmm scorching rays should win out single target but if you hit more than one target then shatter should be abit better. Since 6d6 is worse than 6d8. But killing one target >>> damaging 2 targets. So yes i think scorching rays is abit better. That being said i usally don't take any dmaging second level spells.

[samcifer]

I'm just wondering which would be better as I'm looking for a spell that can hit multiple targets. I have a +7 to hit (prof. is +3 and +4 Cha mod)and like the idea of the longer reach and hitting enemies farther apart, but as they're attack rolls and dice don't like me much (been getting a lot of poor rolls of late and no damage on a save.

I hesitated over Shatter for having half the range, only hits enemies bunched together and has a CON save, which I hear is the worst save to have as far as players attacking npc enemies, but the effect sounds useful and even on a save I'd be doing damage. Also, the chance to hit the melee party members would make using it often difficult. Still, many players like it for a lv. 2 spell, hence my having a hard time deciding.

I'm playing a mostly blaster character with some versatility for various situations. For example, I swapped out Protection from Evil and Good for Lesser Restoration.

[samcifer]

If it makes any difference in the choice, I'll be a spell level behind because I spent 2 levels on hexblade on my now total level 5 character.

[Draco4472]

I agree with Bloodhawk on this. Shatter is good for AoE and Scorching Ray is good for hitting one target or multiple across greater distances. Both work well in different situations. Since you already have Eldritch Blast (or I assume you do since you're a warlock), I'd get shatter if you don't have much in the ways of AoE.

[Galactkaktus]

I whould probably go with shatter in that case assuming that you took agonizing blast and eldritch blast? Since eldritch blast has about the same damage as scorching rays singel target in that case.
Scorching rays(6d6)*accuracy=21*accuracy
Eldritch blast(2d10+8)*accuracy=19*accuracy
And EB has the same range as scorching rays and you can split it between two targets. If you increase your charisma to 20 at the next level EB and scorching rays will do approximatly the same damage( critts changes this abit in scorching rays favor but it's not a huge shift)

[History_buff]

One thing that gives shatter an edge is that thunder is far less resisted than fire and you’re guaranteed some damage. Could miss with all three rays.

[Finger6842]

Shatter is a great spell because you don't always fight a big bad. When fighting multiple small enemies you can blast them which is nice but this spell also has use outside of combat, breaking items from a distance can come in handy.

Scorching Ray is a great spell as well mostly due to the range. It scales a bit better. As a lock you probably have a better blasting spell (Eldrich Blast) which will allow you to focus on spells with more utility at 2nd level like misty step, mirror image, darkness or invisibility. From all I've seen those 4 spells are real game changers.

[samcifer]

I agree with Bloodhawk on this. Shatter is good for AoE and Scorching Ray is good for hitting one target or multiple across greater distances. Both work well in different situations. Since you already have Eldritch Blast (or I assume you do since you're a warlock), I'd get shatter if you don't have much in the ways of AoE.

My other spells:

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast and Minor Illusion - Fire Bolt, Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead and Prestidigitation (SF and TtD for different saving throw options)

Lv. 1: Shield, Hex and Armor of Agythys - Cure Wounds, Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb and Lesser Restoration.

Eldritch Evocations: Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear (distance has occasionally been an issue in our homebrewed campaign involving ship-to-ship and ship-to/from-land battles.

[samcifer]

Shatter is a great spell because you don't always fight a big bad. When fighting multiple small enemies you can blast them which is nice but this spell also has use outside of combat, breaking items from a distance can come in handy.

Scorching Ray is a great spell as well mostly due to the range. It scales a bit better. As a lock you probably have a better blasting spell (Eldrich Blast) which will allow you to focus on spells with more utility at 2nd level like misty step, mirror image, darkness or invisibility. From all I've seen those 4 spells are real game changers.

I'm playing a dispater tiefling and can now cast Invisibility once per day (as well as Disguise Self and Thaumaturgy)

[Skelechicken]

My other spells:

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast and Minor Illusion - Fire Bolt, Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead and Prestidigitation (SF and TtD for different saving throw options)

Lv. 1: Shield, Hex and Armor of Agythys - Cure Wounds, Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb and Lesser Restoration.

Eldritch Evocations: Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear (distance has occasionally been an issue in our homebrewed campaign involving ship-to-ship and ship-to/from-land battles.

Given your current spells I would take shatter. You are a little light on AoE.

If you are engaging in a lot of ship battle shatter may also be a good way to damage the hull of an enemy ship, depending on DM rulings, since the spell also speaks a goodish deal about damaging non-worn/carried items and creatures made of inorganic material. (I would not let the second factor in until you've spoken with your DM about how they would approach it)

[samcifer]

Given your current spells I would take shatter. You are a little light on AoE.

If you are engaging in a lot of ship battle shatter may also be a good way to damage the hull of an enemy ship, depending on DM rulings, since the spell also speaks a goodish deal about damaging non-worn/carried items and creatures made of inorganic material. (I would not let the second factor in until you've spoken with your DM about how they would approach it)

Really good point. It can work on doors too, right?

Been chatting on fb with our druid player, who says our dm rarely throws creatures with resistances at his players, so that's a plus. Also like the dmg. no matter what that SR lacks.

[LeonBH]

Given you're a Hexblade, Scorching Ray is better for you. Hexblade's Curse works for each individual ray of Scorching Ray, like Agonizing Blast works for Eldritch Blast.

[samcifer]

Given you're a Hexblade, Scorching Ray is better for you. Hexblade's Curse works for each individual ray of Scorching Ray, like Agonizing Blast works for Eldritch Blast.

Ooh! REALLY good point there! But I have EB with Agonizing Blast, so I can get the same effect with a cantrip that I could with a leveled spell if I give up one ray for the extra damage.

[LeonBH]

Yes, but you can stack them. I'll assume you're level 5 with a 16 CHA.

Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast, Hex, and Curse, brings you to 2d10+(2*CHA)+2d6+(2*PROF) ~ 30

Scorching Ray with Hex, and Curse, brings you 6d6+3d6+(3*PROF) ~ 41.5

L2 Magic Missile with Hex, and Curse, brings you 4*(1d4+1+1d6+PROF) ~ 40

Then add in Empower Spell, which can boost each damage spell by 3-4 points.

[Tikkun]

You might also want to consider the fact that blowing mobs up is just one way to kill a bunch of baddies. Shatter can be used quite creatively to blow up the wall of a castle, the roof of a tunnel or create an avalanche or rock-slide; in each case seriously damaging/killing the baddies beside, underneath or in the path of such shattered objects.

Be creative. Have fun. And bask in the accolades of your team-mates who will be saying " I wish I thought of that !!"

[Squiddish]

I'm not a fan of scorching ray myself, especially on a warlock. It's not a terribly interesting spell, and at a certain point it's not really worth the slot unless you're very lucky. Even then, I would recommend shatter, since it is wholly more interesting,

[samcifer]

Well, after all of this as well as talking to my more experienced fallow player in my group. I decided on Shatter as it has out-of-combat uses and since it's on the Warlock spell list too, I can shunt it over there later on. With Quicken and Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast, Hexblade Cure and Hex, I can already do 4 ray attacks suring a single turn. Being able to destroy a locked door, destroy a bridge after we get across it, enemy ships, contructs (including trap statues) etc. as well as guaranteed damage even if it's only half dmg on a successful save, it's the better spell for me all around as I still also have Magic Missile. Thanks for all the helpful advice, everyone. :)

[samcifer]

My fellow player did, however, bring up an interesting question. Can spells granted by a racial ability, such as the dispater tiefling spells Disguise Self and Invisibility be Twinned with metamagic? I think they can, but he wasn't certain they could be.

[Talamare]

Magic Missile is always the answer

[samcifer]

Magic Missile is always the answer

While fighting a whale boss at sea, I used Hex, then Mag Mis on the next turn and dm allowed a d6 for each missile. I blew the ol' blubberpus away! But now we have to leave the area fast to avoid sea predators the carcass and blood are due to attract.

[Pex]

I'm not a fan of Scorching Ray. When the wizard rolled three Natural 20s that one time it was glorious, but it's a level too high for my taste in what it does. I'm not willing to spend the 2nd level slot for it over Suggestion or Phantasmal Force which gives me good control power. I'm happy with a Cantrip when I only need damage, Magic Missile if need be, and let Fireball be my big boom.

[History_buff]

While fighting a whale boss at sea, I used Hex, then Mag Mis on the next turn and dm allowed a d6 for each missile. I blew the ol' blubberpus away! But now we have to leave the area fast to avoid sea predators the carcass and blood are due to attract.

This is genius. Dunno if magic missile qualifies as an attack for hex though.

[samcifer]

This is genius. Dunno if magic missile qualifies as an attack for hex though.

Also, even if we had time to collect the meat as we're low on rations, the necrotic damage decayed a good portion of the whale meat. :(

[LeonBH]

My fellow player did, however, bring up an interesting question. Can spells granted by a racial ability, such as the dispater tiefling spells Disguise Self and Invisibility be Twinned with metamagic? I think they can, but he wasn't certain they could be.

Disguise Self can't be Twinned regardless. Invisibility can be Twinned as long as you're the one casting the spell.

[samcifer]

Disguise Self can't be Twinned regardless. Invisibility can be Twinned as long as you're the one casting the spell.

Yeah, because the range is 'Self'. It'd really be helpful if they had put that in the name or something so I would've had an easy way to remember. :P

[LeonBH]

Yeah, because the range is 'Self'. It'd really be helpful if they had put that in the name or something so I would've had an easy way to remember. :P

You asked if Disguise Self could be Twinned.

If you had a twin and cast Twinned Disguise Self, would it affect your twin?

[Chugger]

If you're fighting lots of creatures, Dragon's Breath (new X spell, lvl 2) is pretty good. You can cast it on someone else and they can get 10 turns of breathing fire or w/e on enemies in a burning-hands size cone.

Shatter gives you ranged AoE in a rather small radius. It's what - a con save? If fighting something with high AC you wanna go shatter or dragon's breath - cuz nothing sucks more than missing on all 3 scorching rays.

Scorching ray is great against low ac creatures. It's weakness is high AC things. Or casters, who can Shield against it.

Edit - also this - if say fighting Yuanti in Chult, they have adv ST against spells. Don't shatter them. Scorching ray is probably better because you roll to hit. If it is Yuanti w/ super-high AC ... it's going to be hard.

[Citan]

If it makes any difference in the choice, I'll be a spell level behind because I spent 2 levels on hexblade on my now total level 5 character.
Hi !
So that does it. If you had been level 3 I would have said "pick SR now and go directly for Fireball when reaching level 5".
Since you already have a splittable multichance spell with Eldricht Blast to use with Hexblade and Hex there is little point taking SR too much overlap. Take Shatter and dont look back. : )

[samcifer]

You asked if Disguise Self could be Twinned.

If you had a twin and cast Twinned Disguise Self, would it affect your twin?

Must be early onset senility. Today is my 45th birthday.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

So I finally gained access to vl. 2 spells on my divine soul/hexblade character and after looking over Scorching Rays and Shatter, and SR seems like a better spell to go for, but as I'm still fairly new to the game, I wanted some feedback from experienced players who can let me know if I made the correct choice.

After reading this and your follow up I have an analogy.

Its not soo much Scorching Rays vs Shatter. In this case it is which spell is more useful for your, Scorching Rays or Shatter.

Consider a fellow who wants to mow lawns for money. He already has a lawnmower (Eldritch Blast) and can either buy another similar lawnmower (Scorching Rays) or get a trimmer (Shatter).

The fellow does not already have a trimmer (AOE spell) so he needs a trimmer (Shatter) not another mower (Scorching Rays).

I'll argue firing off Scorching Rays is inferior to Eldritch Blast since it burns spell slots you could use for something else anyways.

[Relbin]

Use your second level spell slot you would have spent on scorching Ray to quicken Eldritch Blast (4 eldritch blasts in a round vs 3 scorching rays). Scorching Ray is only good if you are going seriously Nova and want to burn through all of your resources in a few rounds. Personally, I’d take Misty Step or Enhance Ability or some similar utility spell as your combat bases are pretty much covered by Hexblade. Shatter is okay if no one else in your group has AOE.