Awaken Spell

[Khrysaes]

If you reduce a creature's intelligence to 3 or less through either the feeblemind or an intellect devourer, can you then cast awaken on it to give it 10 intelligence? What then happens should the previous reduction be removed?

[hymer]

If you reduce a creature's intelligence to 3 or less through either the feeblemind or an intellect devourer, can you then cast awaken on it to give it 10 intelligence? What then happens should the previous reduction be removed?

The target still has to be a beast or plant, let's note that. Other than that, it's Ask Your DM. As DM, here is how I'd rule it:
If the change in intelligence is a permanent and irreversible one, then I could allow an otherwise unnaturally smart beast or plant to be awakened. But if the dumbing down was temporary or somehow reversible, I'd say it can't be done.

[Dalebert]

There are a number of cases in the rules where only certain creatures are eligible for certain effects. A question is then raised, what happens if their eligibility changes? AFAIK, the rules don't answer that. I've tweeted Crawford and Perkins but gotten no response. For example, what if you cast Hold Person and then that person gets Polymorphed into a beast? The way I handle such things is the effect is still there but it's no longer working until they're eligible again. The beast would no longer be paralyzed but could still make saves at the end of each turn to end the effect. If the effect was still up when the polymorph ended, the creature would be paralyzed again.

Because it would be cool, I would probably allow the Awaken to work but only while in that state. When the Feeblemind ends, they'd be back to how they were. If you cast Awaken on a polymorphed character, I'd let them have a 10 int and be able to speak until the polymorph ends. Now this is the part I wouldn't expect other DMs to do but I would, again, because cool. If they get polymorphed back into that specific beast again, they'd still be awakened. Note that some PCs would get smarter considering how many dump int.

[nickl_2000]

There are a number of cases in the rules where only certain creatures are eligible for certain effects. A question is then raised, what happens if their eligibility changes? AFAIK, the rules don't answer that. I've tweeted Crawford and Perkins but gotten no response. For example, what if you cast Hold Person and then that person gets Polymorphed into a beast? The way I handle such things is the effect is still there but it's no longer working until they're eligible again. The beast would no longer be paralyzed but could still make saves at the end of each turn to end the effect. If the effect was still up when the polymorph ended, the creature would be paralyzed again.



Off topic from Awaken, but JC actually talked about something extremely similar to this situation on the Sage Advice section of Dragontalk. He said it would work exactly like you are doing it. Congratulation, you win!

[Khrysaes]

Note that some PCs would get smarter considering how many dump int.

This was what I was thinking of.. realistically.

[nickl_2000]

This was what I was thinking of.. realistically.

Personally this fails my gut test. When you are reading/writing this do you feel that you are getting away with something? If the answer is yes, then you are probably doing something that isn't designed as intended.


Now if you want to get really crazy what happens when you take a PC, True Polymorph them into a T-Rex, then cast Awaken on the T-Rex? Sure, it's pretty much impossible realistically and massively fails my gut test, but it would be fun to be an intellegent T-Rex in a campaign.

[Easy_Lee]

Personally this fails my gut test. When you are reading/writing this do you feel that you are getting away with something? If the answer is yes, then you are probably doing something that isn't designed as intended.

But is that such a bad thing? I'm not convinced. D&D has enough rules, optional rules, and interpretations of its rules that the likelihood that there's even a single table out there playing the game perfectly as intended is zero.

Still, the cases for doing this sort of thing are limited. How many PCs want to be permanently changed into beasts? Not many, I'd wager. Beast form is an archetypal curse; it exists throughout mythology and folklore.

In my opinion, the best candidate for Awaken is a BM Ranger's companion. An intelligent creature, when acting as a mount, can take its own actions in combat. Thus a BM can allow his companion to act freely if he rides it and has a druid cast Awaken on it. How do you like that for your "gut test"?

[nickl_2000]

But is that such a bad thing?

No certainly not, it's not a bad thing. However, it does flag it in my mind for deeper consideration and more careful watching for how it would work in a campaign. A gut check could mean that it's odd, but it would work perfectly (or in a fun way), or it could mean that it so incredibly broken that it makes the game not fun.




In my opinion, the best candidate for Awaken is a BM Ranger's companion. An intelligent creature, when acting as a mount, can take its own actions in combat. Thus a BM can allow his companion to act freely if he rides it and has a druid cast Awaken on it. How do you like that for your "gut test"?

This completely passes my gut test (that may be odd or not, I'm not sure). It seems like you are spending a significant amount of money (1000 GP is a fair amount) to make a class feature better.

[Dalebert]

Personally this fails my gut test.

But it passes my rule-of-cool test. I don't think anyone wants to be a beast all the time, but it would be pretty cool and I don't think particularly broken, if you polymorph someone into a T-Rex and then cast Awaken with a Staff of the Woodlands (1 action and 0 gp cost). Now that T-Rex is intelligent and can speak. It still doesn't have their class features or anything, but they're more manageable and they can at least use some magic items (the ones without attunement reqts that are capable of being physically used). It would only last an hour or until they dropped to zero hp. Now I would posit it's perfectly legitimate that if you polymorph them into that same T-Rex again later, they'd already be awakened. The spell is there but dormant. You can't ever Awaken that person again because Awaken is an instantaneous effect with permanent consequences and you can't stack spell effects. So what you now have is someone who, when they're a specific T-Rex, is awakened. They're only that specific T-Rex when polymorphed.

[MaxWilson]

If you reduce a creature's intelligence to 3 or less through either the feeblemind or an intellect devourer, can you then cast awaken on it to give it 10 intelligence? What then happens should the previous reduction be removed?

A reasonable ruling would be that the Feeblemind/Intellect Devourer effect ends, exactly as if Awaken had been Greater Restoration.