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Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-20, 01:12 PM
This is a recounting of the Three Laws of Magic. I developed them based on patterns and events that occur within the magic system as published by Wizards. The hardest part was determining the source of magic, but once Incarnum appeared it fell right into place quite happily.

The Three Laws of Magic
Magic is an inherently powerful force, which is largely unknown and yet extremely commonly used among the talented and wealthy.
Archmage Laurel DeCamphor of Olympia first concocted the Three Laws of Magic and whilst his initial theories and conclusions were sketchy and opaque at first, they were eventually refined and wrought to produce the modern equivalents.

The Three Laws of Magic are as follows:
Magic is unaffected by the Laws of Physics, but may affect them
Magic only extends as far as the civilisationís furthest point
Magic is fundamentally an unstable substance

All magical effects, in some way or another, and sometimes in lengthy cycles, apply these laws, which determine the function of the effect on the material world (Material Plane or otherwise).

The Source
Magic needs a source at all times to function for even an instant, however the source of magic has been a subject of much controversy. Early theories pointed to the Gods as the source of magic (Early worship of Boccob and similar deities can be seen from this), later versions pointed to a single, unknown, deity (Faerun's Mystra). Theories also speculated the existence of a Ďmagic planeí from which the effects were drawn directly, a plane that encompassed the entire planar cosmology in a form of weave, as in a wicker basket (The Weave and Shadow Weaves). The most agreed upon and recognised theory of the modern day points to the living soul of a creature as the source, after the discovery of Incarnum magics divulged by the Dead-Nick Squad Black Pearl expeditionary force upon their return from Mizu Omi (Incarnum itself).
Souls are naturally malleable, and are capable of performing and empowering a myriad of effects in their usage, either as source, stopgap, or fuel. As Incarnum is a magical effect based on the userís soul or soul energy, and as it is notably one of the most ancient of magic sciences yet discovered, the soul is logically the most likely source of magic itself, though not all theorists were swayed by this new science.

The Requirements
It has been documented that, in order for magic to function in an area, there must be a group of creatures or objects possessing souls of at least 200 within 500 miles of the target point. This is the origin of the Second Law of Magic, though exceptions have been noted with particularly powerful magical individuals or objects where fewer and farther numbers have allowed magicís existence (10 20th level casters, for instance, could amount to 200 HD of souls, as demonstrated by some rulings on Incarnum effects). This collective soul energy that allows magic is a little known phenomenon, and is often believed to mean that larger numbers of united people are inevitably more powerful, the number of souls joining together to produce a more powerful whole, which is embodied in magic.
The partial exception to this rule is divine magic, which is limited only by how far the deity worshipped can perceive the spellcaster. Were such a spellcaster to be in a region outside of their deity's capacity to view and deplete their granted investment of innate magic (An acquisition only possible by deities, who control incarnum in its essence), they would find themselves lacking in magical ability completely. As stated, this particular variation to the requirements for magic is only seen in divine casters, arcane casters need worry only about the nearby population.

Teleportation and Divination - This requirement is regularly not the case for some magic effects, such as the teleportation subschool, which transport a creature to a defined location instantaneously, regardless of the existence of magic at that location (Though antimagic has been found to prevent this access by negating the little amount of magic required). Divination school effects produce their effects in a similar manner, and are also negated by antimagic, suggesting a relation in their function. The small amount of magic needed is sent instantaneously to a region it cannot survive and is then immediately returned to report back to the spellcaster. Left in a single no-magic area, the spell gradually falters until the energy it needs to be self-supporting dissipates.

Undead and Constructs - Undead naturally do not possess souls (Though some are composed of little else, such as Ghosts), and so have great difficulty in utilising magic in otherwise-dead areas, though it is possible for a sentient undead creature to acquire magical talent, and this has led to the naÔve belief that sentience is the key to the acquisition of a soul, though Druids regularly refute this claim with evidence that animals, clearly non-sentient creatures, can be revived through resurrection magics. Undead and Golems, to name a single grouping of Constructs, are all charged by magical energy. When this occurs, the energy is initially invested by the spellcaster that creates them, and they are then seen to be self-supporting. Like demiplanes, it seems that the spellcaster maintains a 'thread' or similar link to the creations, which typically necessitates that they remain loyal to the spellcaster, and then the remaining energy that keeps the creatures operational is drawn directly from a massive source of incarnum energy (Similar to the modern way that cellphones get a signal from a tower nearby). Whilst such a phenomenon has never been found, it is therefore probable that Undead and Constructs would cease functioning entirely in a region of no-magic and null-incarnum.

Demiplanes - Demiplanes may be seen to violate these laws, but they do in fact follow them. When a demiplane is first created, it is by a powerful soul through a significant magical effect. Largely, it is this initial Ďboostí of magical energy that allows the demiplane to then continue growing. However, once it is grown, the demiplane then draws its magical power directly from incarnum, the under current that allows magic itself to exist. This makes them in some ways an exception to the Second Law, however it is incarnum that produces the soul itself, and so the demiplane draws its strength from the pupating souls of billions of creatures, hence applying to the Second Law and existing. It has long been theorised that the personal energy a spellcaster must invest to initially create the demiplane is precisely what ties it to incarnum.
The Search for the SourceIt's in human nature, follow the stream to the ocean, the smoke to the fire, or blood to the wound. What is the "source" of magic?

Conventional wisdom shows us that any creature with intelligence has access to magic, or any creature with an overt/covert link to something with access can utilise magic to a degree. Therefore, there must be something about the intelligent mind that allows the use of magic (Wizards study books and prepare spells ahead of time, Sorcerers figure spells as they go, Bards learn the tunes, etc.)

In addition, it appears that the earliest form of magic involved the manipulation of soul energy, Incarnum, which has since fallen into disuse and is largely sealed away in monolithic testaments and tombs across the world (Taken from the backstory of Magic of Incarnum, feel free to modify for your own setting). Incarnum is most commonly known in the magical community as the substance that forms most of ectoplasm, infuses Ghost Touch and Ghost Ward items, and perhaps most importantly composes the "soul".

Given that a certain number of creatures with an intelligence of any kind (Be it animalistic or humanoid) must be concentrated in an area for magic to function, we can therefore conclude that souls are important, or else some state of sentience.

Running on with this concoction, we see that soul energy is what causes magic. We assume that Incarnum is either very rare, or entirely unnatural to our known universe. Therefore, its introduction produces a kind of "reaction" with the fabric of reality, be it on the Material Plane, the Positive Energy Plane, or the Outlands, etc. This reaction produces a kind of quasi-energy, stuck half-way between Incarnum and the materials of our own universe. This new energy is extremely covert, and goes unnoticed throughout much of a person's life.

A sentient mind, or one with a connection straight to the source of sentient minds (Incarnum itself, as the sole component of souls) can, with practice and/or study, manipulate this quasi-energy and produce various effects. The effects are often similar due to transplanar teachings and tutelage, but some show a marked ability to display alternative effects to existing "spells" or improve upon them (Aesthetic license, metamagic feats, etc.).

Since this connection was theorised, Incarnum has become the oft-toted source of all magical ability, though by no means is it considered to be fully understood, and many arcanists still strive to be the ones to find the source in its entirety.
Epic magic: Power of the GodsA strange distinction is made between mortal magic and epic magic, a magic so potent it can blacken suns and sunder planets. In order for their to be magic, there must be the equivalent soul energy of 200 people within a 500 mile radius. In order for there to be epic magic, there must be one million sentient creatures in the universe.

Given that the Gods control epic magic to a fine degree, and that it is they that can grant the use of divine magic to their subjects, we can assume that they are responsible for its usage. Logically speaking, there must be some reason, some restriction, to this capacity, or else every God would have his/her own universe to play with.

(Note: What follows is largely something I have yet to base in present D&D canon, so don't be angry if I start going unfounded)

The more worshippers a God acquires, the stronger they become. This has become a well-acknowledged and accepted fact. This is how the leaders of pantheons come to be the most well-renowned members.

Just as there must be the equivalent of 200 mortals to acquire mortal magic, there must be the equivalent of 200 divine ranks for there to be epic magic.

Following surveys of religious followings, it appears that, on a divine scale, each so-called "divine rank" is equivalent to approximately 5000 worshippers. Therefore, whether it is divided between the gods evenly, unevenly, or not at all, there must be approximately one million sentient creatures devoting themselves to some deity or ideal.

This focus of latent psionic energy focuses and re-orders the universe on an almost imperceptible level, turning the "background magical products" into the impetus for epic magic, which manifests itself through the Gods.

(End)

Basically, I think of magic as a kind of inverted-flow fountain. You have lots of people inside the main chamber of the fountain, this puts pressure on the chamber itself, so we'll say that's like magic. Then, you get even more people, until eventually it starts shooting out the top of the fountain in little near-continuous spurts, the Gods. Once there's enough of these little spurts, it makes a plateau above the main chamber, that sprinkles the water down around the chamber and back into the bottom of it: Epic magic.

(A bit of a wonky metaphor, but it works, methinks)
Incarnum and the PlanesOkay, there exists within my campaign setting (In the very very very far future thereof) an artifact known as the Tresor. It's the tomb of a dead god that literally falls through the planes, from one to another randomly, making it impossible to track. In each campaign setting, there's something similar. This introduces a new issue of "Magic Physics" we should try and cover: The precise nature of planar travel.

The first step in this new field of research, is to discern what it is that composes the "shell" around each plane. Since every plane is different, some lava, some air, some all manner of other compositions, there must be a single unifying element that allows them to interact. For this purpose, I introduce the possibility of the Planar Shell.

Like an egg, a plane has an outer shell. Outside of this shell might be nothing, might be the Far Realm, or might be the other planes themselves, depending on the precise cosmology of the campaign setting. But each plane has this Planar Shell that keeps it coherently together. So, what constitutes this shell?

Think of planar travel as being like tuning a radio. You create a portal (Maybe through Gate) from your present plane to another. So, we take your present plane (Plane A*) and we alter the immediate vicinity to match the planar signature of the other plane (Plane B*). This is similar to string theory, we resonate the material of the Planar Shell at a certain frequency and it produces a section of Plane A in that location.

So the big question is, what is the material of the Planar Shell?

Now, I'm going to introduce a fairly radical concept here that is going to make the previous Laws of Magic a heck of a lot more complex: The Planar Shell is composed of low-frequency Incarnum.

Incarnum resonates at frequencies. If a high-frequency mass of Incarnum is placed within an area of low-frequency Incarnum, we get a reaction. Low-frequency Incarnum is background, it's everywhere but it's too weak to impact upon anything in any flashy way like magic. It takes the heavy or high-frequency Incarnum to really impact upon life at large, that's the kind that reacts with ordinary matter to produce raw magic and it's what most Soulmelds are made of.

So back to our Gate. We create this localised fluctuation in the low-frequency Incarnum and we specifically tune it to the frequency of the plane we want to visit. The edges of the two planes temporarily meet, producing the portal. The interior of the circular portal is a see-through affair, we can see from one plane to the next and vice versa. The outer edges are difficult to discern, they might be hazy or glowing bright light, because magic is inherently chaotic.

Now we go back to the low-frequency Incarnum of the planes. Gate has the second function of being able to summon creatures through the portal produced. Now, since a creature inside the plane is surrounded by the low-frequency Incarnum, it becomes saturated by it, because every last piece of material composing it is from that same home plane. So when it leaves, it sticks out like a sore thumb in that plane (Extraplanar subtype). It doesn't have any really harmful effect for the creature though, because low-frequency Incarnum is still background noise, with too little energy to produce any specific effects.

Actually physically calling the creature through the portal is a function of magic as described above.

(Any thoughts? Criticisms?)

Back to the Tresor and it's brethren. There needs to be a precise resonant pulse going through the object, one that alters the precise wavelength of the low-frequency Incarnum composing it. The pulse needs to stay coherent when released, but chaotic and random immediately prior, to produce the random shifting. This would absolutely need to be a magical effect, because it's too chaotic to be naturally occuring in physics (Magic Physics or otherwise). This naturally indicates a force behind it related to the high-frequency Incarnum of the living soul, which would be a neat little sign that the dead god inside isn't quite dead.

As an example: Eberron.

In Eberron's cosmology, the other planes, like Xoriat and Dal Quor, orbit around the material plane (Eberron itself) inside the Astral plane. They are separate from each other, but occasionaly become coterminous with Eberron, forming a walkway between the two planes that allows creatures and effects to cross over quite happily.

So, the Astral Plane in this instance is a universal medium, like space, and the planes orbit like planet's around the sun that is Eberron. In my setting, this is more like the Far Realm, but that's my setting. The frequency of the Planar Shells in the other planes must be a determinedly fixed value, to prevent them from ever connecting. However, this cannot be true of Eberron.

Eberron has to be able to change it's Planar Shell's Incarnum frequency. This could be the resonant pulse of the Tresor's design, or it could be something merely inherent in Eberron's composition. Whatever the case, Eberron's Planar Shell is unstable. As it alters and varies, it draws in these other planes around it, and as it changes away from their frequencies it shoves them away, producing the atom-esque cosmology.

As the frequency approaches, let's say Xoriat's frequency, Xoriat gets closer and closer until eventually the frequencies match and Xoriat becomes coterminous with Eberron. The two planes touch, allowing travel from one to another freely. Then, Eberron starts shifting again, and Xoriat starts getting repelled. It then becomes waning, whilst it was waxing before becoming coterminous. When Eberron is nowhere near the frequency of Xoriat, Xoriat is remote, you've virtually no way to get there. Basically, the closer the frequency between two Planar Shells, the more they gravitate together.

Now, in Eberron, a remote plane is hard to get to and requires a Spellcraft check to get to. This is a unique function in Eberron and so is a special case for the Laws of Magic. This could mean that a Planar Shell frequency on the opposing end of the scale to the plane you're aiming for actually resists the attempt at joining them, because they almost cancel eachother out in resonation as the portal created pulls them together. This wouldn't be harmful to anything involved, but it would restrict the attempt considerably.

In Eberron, Xoriat is kept remote from the material plane by objects called Dimensional Seals. To do this, they would need to regulate the almost random alterations of Eberron's frequency to avoid becoming close to that of Xoriat. That's the second effect, the first effect of a Dimensional Seal projects a 2 mile radius of dimensional anchor. This would imply that the seals also stabilise the alterations, and eliminate the teleportation magics that allow interplanar travel. All of this is a magic effect naturally.

Now what of the Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow? In virtually all cosmologies to date, they have been overlapping with the Material Plane. Naturally for this to occur, they must have a very close Planar Shell frequency to that of the Material Plane itself.
Incarnum as a substanceIncarnum is described in Magic of Incarnum as being a bluish misty substance. It's property of having frequencies indicates that it may be a wave, though more likely it is a gaseous quasi-fluid.

As stated, Incarnum resonates in frequencies. At lower frequencies, Incarnum is a fairly inert substance that permeates virtually all matter in the universe, almost like background radiation. At higher frequencies, it becomes far more energetic, and begins displaying the properties that make it renowned as the substance of the living soul. It empowers cells and materials it inhabits, allowing for sentience and motion, creating life.

When low-frequency Incarnum and high-frequency Incarnum interact, the resulting reaction produces a tertiary product: raw magic. This could relate magic to being a kind of radiant energy or similar to ionising radiation, the two frequencies collide and inherently alter each other. The low-frequency Incarnum gains some more energy whilst the high-frequency Incarnum loses some energy, and the resultant frequency changes produce the erratic raw substance that is magic. The reaction can only occur in this way, low with high frequency, because two different volumes of the same frequency do not react in this way.

Heavy Incarnum is very high-frequency Incarnum, the same kind that composes the souls, but tangible and shapable. It is heavy Incarnum that composes soulmelds. Heavy Incarnum is produced by condensing the high-frequency Incarnum of souls together through meldshaping. This form of Incarnum can serve as a soul only when diluted, because the concentrations involved are overpowering for most living matter, but otherwise functions normally. Heavy Incarnum in it's basic state is fluidic and carries a significant charge, it is often said that when close to a volume of fluidic heavy Incarnum the hairs on the back of the neck stand up, giving it an awe of power. Because of the distinctly infinite quantities that would be involved, it is often believed that the source of Incarnum is almost entirely heavy Incarnum.

Because souls are heavy Incarnum-based, they can therefore yield some influence over the raw magic produced by the reaction. The enhanced neural nature of sentience from the soul exerts a subconscious and conscious effect over it, allowing the various effects of basic magic to occur. With practice or aptitude, a person can produce the typical magical effects characterised in fables and stories and legends. On a more fundamental level, worship directs a small amount of raw magic towards the object of worship, producing divine magic by way of creating divinity.
-Speculation on the Nature of the Plane of IncarnumThe most prevalent theory for the "Source" of Incarnum is that it has it's own home plane. This makes sense, given the seemingly infinite nature of it and that Planar Shells are composed of it.

The Plane of Incarnum must be infinite, in order to accomodate an infinite volume of Incarnum. Given this infinite nature, the entire plane being flooded with Incarnum indicates that it is likely in a high-frequency or heavy state, making the plane's environment composed of a highly-detrimental, glowing, bluish sea.

The Planar Shell of the plane must be highly charged, making it possible that it is the only plane in feasible existence that could be held by a shell of high-frequency Incarnum. This would make sense, because a high-frequency Planar Shell would radiate high-frequency Incarnum inward, producing this sea of heavy Incarnum.

Because the entire plane is either high-frequency or heavy Incarnum, magic cannot exist here by normal standards. Adding 200 souls worth of high-frequency soul Incarnum does nothing, and adding low-frequency to the same note is tremendously difficult because there is no measure for the "strength" of low-frequency Incarnum. One could quite possibly hurl an entire continent into the plane without seeing a glimmer of magic.

The entire plane is filled with heavy Incarnum, which as stated carries a significant electrical charge. A plane full of this highly-charged substance would therefore be a storehouse of immense electrical current.

Interactions of low-frequency Incarnum in Planar Shells is the essence of planar travel. Assuming therefore that you have enough magic on one end, you could open a portal to this Plane of Incarnum, and never ever see it close because the shells themselves would likely provide enough Incarnum for magic (The Planar Shell being high-frequency itself). However, this also gives us the problem: Is it possible to tune a low-frequency Incarnum Planar Shell to match a high-frequency Incarnum Planar Shell? The answer is likely no, and so planar travel to the Plane of Incarnum (Besides being suicidally dangerous for biological lifeforms, infinite times more so than the Positive Energy Plane) is likely impossible.
Magic Concentration and it's Effects on Everyday LifeWhen magic first becomes available by way of a high enough concentration of Incarnum souls in a small enough area, it behaves very much as a background energy unless someone can manipulate it. If there were no spellcasters you wouldn't even know magic existed, because it has so little an effect on normal reality when raw.

However, an increase in soul concentration in an area beyond the necessary prerequisite concentration for the reaction that creates magic can cause an effect on reality, especially in biological life. This is most prevalent in very large communities, where there is typically a larger occurence of spellcasters and magical events. When magic is produced in such large concentrations, it begins to affect the creatures in the area over time. This typically is a very slow process, akin to an accelerated form of genetic evolution, but can sometimes be forced to take a much faster pace.

When magic concentration reaches very high levels, it can instill in creatures in the area a form of magical aptitude. The material of the creature becomes so saturated with magic that it becomes almost a second nature for them to manipulate it. This is widely thought to be the source of many species of Magical Beast, as well as many Sorcerers and other innately-magical spellcasters.

In extremely high levels of concentration, magic becomes dangerous and can produce hazardous effects on the local populace. It is in this "critical mass" state that magic becomes very volatile, and magic use in the region affected can spark a chain reaction that produces what is commonly known as "arcane pollution" depending on the specific effect that sparked it. This can range from Alchemical Fog, Alchemical Rain, the most well-known Arcane Pollution (Officialy, the overall phenomenon is named Arcane Pollution, this variant is known more properly as "Poly Fog"), Black Mold, or Necrotic Miasma. Because of the high density of magic usage and spellcasters involved, magic districts in large communities are infamous for the creation of arcane pollution.

psychoticbarber
2007-08-20, 03:06 PM
This is pretty interesting. I have to a much more thorough reading before I can comment further.

Kirkle
2007-08-20, 08:05 PM
That is a very well done little paper. I like how you rewrote hte laws of technology to magic, smart idea, at any rate I applaud your work. Bravo

martyboy74
2007-08-20, 08:57 PM
This is... brilliant. The only slightly sore point for me is the second law; do you just DM that there're always enough people around for magic to work, or do you actually take magic away if the characters go far enough away from civilization? As written, this would seemingly not work well with Spelljammer.

Jack_Simth
2007-08-20, 09:45 PM
This is... brilliant. The only slightly sore point for me is the second law; do you just DM that there're always enough people around for magic to work, or do you actually take magic away if the characters go far enough away from civilization? As written, this would seemingly not work well with Spelljammer.

"there must be a group of creatures or objects possessing souls of at least 200 within 500 miles of the target point"

Okay, it doesn't work when your ship crewed by 50 wants to fly away... but just about anywhere in D&D, you'll find 200 critters with an Int of 3 or better within 500 miles pretty easily. Simply because Int 3+ critters are rather common.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-21, 12:48 AM
A group of 10 20th level characters is enough to spark it, the 200 souls is an equivalent measure of soul energy, so the more HD a creature has the more it contributes to the requirement.

The Second Law is, as stated, to explain why only Spelljammer has interplanetary travel and to prevent any moderately-geared adventuring group from flying off into space or a Lich from planting his phylactery on the local moon. I personally enforce it in my games, but as stated it rarely comes into play.

You can't fly into space because most atmospheres are typically a lot more than 500 miles, but you can fly around in the sky all you like (Though most creatures start suffocating at 500 miles up).

Spelljammer works because of it's cosmology, the theory being that either the engines for their ships utilise Incarnum or the space outside the bubbles is composed of it (Which would explain the hazardous properties it has). The phlogiston is described as a bright gaseous substance that is very hazardous to travel through, which would seem to mirror heavy Incarnum. When you travel through a current in the phlogiston, however, travel time is greatly reduced, which we could attribute to the radiant energy released by the inherent high-frequency Incarnum the rivers would be flooded with.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-21, 04:21 AM
The Three Laws of Magic were my first attempt to explain how magic is created and functions in a Wizards of the Coast campaign setting. Regardless of how random or haywire they might write the spells and abilities, the human brain always makes patterns, and having put out hundreds of spells and books they're bound to have made some significant ones. So I looked through my substantial book collection and spotted these patterns, and then added some more to explain why certain things don't happen when they are fully possible (Like the flying into space).

For a long while, there wasn't a defined source for the magic to occur from. Magic of Incarnum arrived after a long while, and suddenly I figured that the living soul could have been the source. My first thought on this subject was that magic always becomes more prevalent in larger populations, and the only difference between a campaign planet and space is the population, so there must be a link. Obviously, the same link could just be that there are more spellcasters in bigger populations, but that didn't dissuade me.

So I looked at Incarnum. I took that as the source for magic, saying initially that it reacted with regular matter to produce the tertiary substance of raw magic. At the time, the Planar Shell hadn't been finalised, so it was merely assumed that Incarnum's exotic status from the universe cause the reaction, it wasn't until later that the concept of Incarnum frequencies was introduced.

So, I figured there had to be a relation between Incarnum and any magical effect for that magical effect to work, be it a spell or a magic item. A fairly easy thing, but I had to explain how instantaneous effects could exist (And therefore if teleportation could go to an unpopulated area) and how permanent effects could keep going. Magic supercedes physics, so it naturally followed that it could create a thread or string to the source, wherever that might be. The thread would be enough to keep the magic running long enough for instantaneous or permanent effects but would eventually degrade (So it could evaporate with the caster's death, if you want, but mostly it means that ancient magics can be unstable). For instantaneous, there would need to be the capacity for magic to exist temporarily even in a magic-less area.

So yeah, there's my rambling explanation of how I invented the field of Magic Physics and the Three Laws of Magic.

Dragonmuncher
2007-08-21, 11:08 AM
That third law sounds good, as it's a reversal of the traditional "advanced technology looks like magic" rule, but when you think about it, it doesn't make sense.


Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology as perceived by a subjective viewer

In the real world, when we use the word "magic," we mean something inscrutable, doing something that seems impossible. Pointing a remote control at a television, to a caveman, seems like "magic."

It doesn't flip, though. "Technology" implies forces that can be understood and built by anyone who knows how to. An all-powerful wizard that shoots a fireball by blinking his eyes and throwing some guano into the air doesn't really look like technology.




The rest of your post was interesting, though.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-21, 11:11 AM
It doesn't flip, though. "Technology" implies forces that can be understood and built by anyone who knows how to. An all-powerful wizard that shoots a fireball by blinking his eyes and throwing some guano into the air doesn't really look like technology.

It does if you use a rocket launcher.

In your TV example: A wizard would use mage hand to change the channel or he'd use greater image to alter the picture. If we point that remote and click a button, it achieves the same result so appears to be magic to someone who doesn't know about our technology.

GNUsNotUnix
2007-08-21, 11:43 AM
The "souls" explanation of source is interesting, but bothersome when I think of outsiders. D&D cosmology (and, indeed, metaphysics) takes Judeo-Christian dualism and makes it empirical; the soul is an observable essence that moves to the appropriate outer plane upon death. Outsiders, however, are materialism realized; they are of only one essence, material, and not spiritual. But Outsiders can cast spells, so they must find magical energy another way, right?


But it's all speculative mythos, anyway. Interesting read.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-21, 11:47 AM
Outsiders are stated as not having that dual-nature, body and soul, but instead being one living creature. It's possible that, in the case of outsiders, the material that composes their bodies fully absorbs the Incarnum rather than it remaining imiscible with it as with normal organisms. In this case, the soul would function similar to electricity for the human body, it's a vital energy that goes away when the body dies and the body dies if it goes away.

GNUsNotUnix
2007-08-21, 11:55 AM
Eugh, sounds a little painful. I don't think I'd want to use my bioelectricity to power my spells. :smalltongue:

Mattarias, King.
2007-08-21, 12:21 PM
*applause* I throughly enjoyed your treatise on magic, Lyinginbedmon. I'm not too familiar with incarnum, but I understood most of this as you explained it. Very well done. :smallsmile:

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-21, 03:56 PM
Eugh, sounds a little painful. I don't think I'd want to use my bioelectricity to power my spells. :smalltongue:

Well the soul keeps everything living and sentient. You need it to live and it, if it goes you're dead. So it's "bioelectricity" in that sense, like a soul but a lot more necessary in the case of Outsiders. Whilst your body could function without a soul (Undead for example), an Outsider needs the soul for anything cellular to even occur.

RAGE KING!
2007-08-21, 07:19 PM
make spoilers for each of those plz.

I'll finish it later.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-22, 04:15 AM
Done!:smallredface:

Dragonmuncher
2007-08-22, 04:20 PM
It does if you use a rocket launcher.

In your TV example: A wizard would use mage hand to change the channel or he'd use greater image to alter the picture. If we point that remote and click a button, it achieves the same result so appears to be magic to someone who doesn't know about our technology.


You said it yourself- someone who doesn't understand our technology would think a remote control is magic.

However, no one would look at a wizard who teleports, has a talking rat on his shoulder, and just turned your uncle into a frog would think "Oh, it must be technology!"*

Super-advanced technology is like magic, because it is so alien, so mysterious, that we can't even comprehend its basic principles-a flashlight to a caveman, or a telephone to Shakespeare.

"Super-advanced" magic isn't like technology, because... it's magic! Who knows what magic can do? You probably didn't even think it existed until you saw that lion turn into a wizard. Seeing a guy go "kolarsh, NICTU!" and have a small light appear in his hand, and seeing a guy go "Fweebo-dabra-doo!" and turn a kangaroo inside out are equally foreign to the layman, since he has no idea how to even begin to understand either one.




*I'm using "magic" as meaning "anything that has no seeming cause and effect, is completely unnatural, and is impossible for a normal person to duplicate. Magic in D&D is more like a science than anything else, so it's not quite the same- I'm using magic in it's "real-world" sense.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-22, 04:47 PM
Yes, that's our world however. Now, indeed if someone walked up to you hurling bursts of flame and talking to their remarkably smart-alec rat, you'd think it was magic.

But would you think it was "magic" magic? I certainly wouldn't, I'd assume all kinds of animatronics and pipelines and flammable gases. Parlour tricks, basically.

In a world with no technology, any proposed technology is magic. Equally, in a world with no magic, any proposed magic is technology. This is the Third Law, if you see something that's out of your line of thinking, you attribute it to the most common thing in that line of thinking.

However, I do indeed support a re-writing of the Third Law and I'd be glad to hear any alternatives.

martyboy74
2007-08-22, 05:53 PM
Any suffienciently reliable item-based magic is indistinguisable from technology as viewed by a subjective viewer?

Really, the current third law doesn't fit well with the other two; the first two deal with how magic works (or doesn't work), and the third one deals with how someone would react to magic.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-23, 03:11 PM
Okay, then what do we know about magic that isn't covered by the first two Laws?

The first deals with the inherent relationship between Physics and Magic, that whilst Magic has a very basic founding in Physics, it completely supercedes the Laws of the other.

The second deals with the apparently restricted range of usage for Magic based on population or "civilisation". You need so many punctures of high-frequency Incarnum in the universe's naturally-existing low-frequency Incarnum to get the reaction.

So the first law is a fundamental law, the second is a requirement, perhaps the third should deal a natural fact of magic itself? Perhaps the chaos of its existence that allows it to violate Physics, or even better: The concentration dependent for it to affect the physical world without intervention.

Any suggestions? The wording needs to be lamen enough to be basically understood, comprehensive enough to cover those bases, and concise enough to fit in with the length of the other two Laws.

martyboy74
2007-08-23, 04:54 PM
The source of magic is nigh unlimited?

This one eliminates almost all worries about using up all the magic in the world, but also can set up a campaign where an epic level baddies designs a spell purely to destroy magical energy (potentially causing a collapse of civilization or something).

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-25, 11:06 AM
If the source was "nigh unlimited" you could eventually run out of souls through overpopulation. It might indeed be a great plot hook, but the source is always assumed to be infinite, because Incarnum can't be destroyed or used up, and the amount needed for planes and souls etc. is immense.

Which actually brings me to adding this new section:
Speculation on the Nature of the Plane of IncarnumThe most prevalent theory for the "Source" of Incarnum is that it has it's own home plane. This makes sense, given the seemingly infinite nature of it and that Planar Shells are composed of it.

The Plane of Incarnum must be infinite, in order to accomodate an infinite volume of Incarnum. Given this infinite nature, the entire plane being flooded with Incarnum indicates that it is likely in a high-frequency or heavy state, making the plane's environment composed of a highly-detrimental, glowing, bluish sea.

The Planar Shell of the plane must be highly charged, making it possible that it is the only plane in feasible existence that could be held by a shell of high-frequency Incarnum. This would make sense, because a high-frequency Planar Shell would radiate high-frequency Incarnum inward, producing this sea of heavy Incarnum.

Because the entire plane is either high-frequency or heavy Incarnum, magic cannot exist here by normal standards. Adding 200 souls worth of high-frequency soul Incarnum does nothing, and adding low-frequency to the same note is tremendously difficult because there is no measure for the "strength" of low-frequency Incarnum. One could quite possibly hurl an entire continent into the plane without seeing a glimmer of magic.

The entire plane is filled with heavy Incarnum, which as stated carries a significant electrical charge. A plane full of this highly-charged substance would therefore be a storehouse of immense electrical current.

Interactions of low-frequency Incarnum in Planar Shells is the essence of planar travel. Assuming therefore that you have enough magic on one end, you could open a portal to this Plane of Incarnum, and never ever see it close because the shells themselves would likely provide enough Incarnum for magic (The Planar Shell being high-frequency itself). However, this also gives us the problem: Is it possible to tune a low-frequency Incarnum Planar Shell to match a high-frequency Incarnum Planar Shell? The answer is likely no, and so planar travel to the Plane of Incarnum (Besides being suicidally dangerous for biological lifeforms, infinite times more so than the Positive Energy Plane) is likely impossible.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-26, 08:04 AM
Well, I've been given a challenge from one of my players to try and dispute the possibility of: Incarnum Black Holes.


The player (Sieghard from here on) posits that if you could ladle heavy Incarnum into a large container of inorganic matter (For example, a metal sphere), and then gradually decrease the space of the sphere (Perhaps through Shrink Item?), thereby compressing the fluidic Incarnum, and keep doing so until the Incarnum within became super dense, it would collapse into a Black Hole composed entirely of Incarnum (As opposed to inert matter in a world without it). Sieghard's thoughts are that the Incarnum Black Hole would continually suck in Incarnum of all frequencies from the surrounding area, creating an area of both dead magic and, indeed, dead life. If it also had the effects of a 'normal' Black Hole, it would suck in ordinary matter as well, gradually destroying entire finite planes (Which would eventually disintegrate as the Planar Shell was sucked in).

Well, how could I dispute what may bethe most apocalyptic idea he's ever come up with? Here's how:


The amount of compression can't be fathomed, but the amount of heavy Incarnum involved would likely need to be large enough for magical aid. Therefore, the more you compress the substance, the more you would unravel the Laws of Physics (Due to magic concentration, the stronger the soul the more the magic). So, the likelihood that, as you approached super density, compression itself still existed, is fairly remote to say the least.

Ignoring the issue of you actually being able to compress it that far, heavy Incarnum carries a charge, which would climb as the compression continued. Continuous current produces heat. So, as you kept piling on the pressure, your container would likely melt in the process, releasing both the pressure and the Incarnum in one fell swoop. I wouldn't like to be standing near it at that point, given that heavy Incarnum ordinarily overpowers living matter...

Assuming you didn't lose compression and your sphere on the way (Maybe this occured in an area of intense gravity? So I don't have to aim at just your industrialised method), Incarnum is a normally gaseous quasi-liquid. Soulmelds have no considerable weight, at all. This shows us that Incarnum is extremely low-mass. So, if we were to produce an Incarnum Black Hole, we would need all the Incarnum from several light years worth of space, assuming it's all heavy Incarnum, to fill the slightest space for it to actually weight anything under normal Earth gravity. The only place we can even conceive of heavy Incarnum covering such a space is the Plane of Incarnum, a theoretical concept. Add in that the Incarnum there is presumably so strong as to bleed through into other Planes (Hence our living souls and magic), there likely isn't anywhere else you could find such an environment.

Therefore, by lack of compression, adequate containment, and the existence of a suitable resource, Incarnum Black Holes are an almost extinct concept, if they exist at all.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-26, 08:19 AM
Back to the Third Law and it's connotations to magic as a substance.

Magic is a product of high-low Incarnum interactions.
It supercedes physics because physics is largely imposed by normal matter whilst magic is produced by Incarnum. It's penchant for doing so is derived from it's chaotic nature.
It can be harnessed and manipulated by high-frequency Incarnum, or more accurately: sentience.

Hmm...here's a possible Third Law then:
Magic is fundamentally an unstable substanceMeaning, once you don't have the right reactionary components, magic goes away almost instantly (Maybe 1 round of magic before it's gone, allowing the instaneous effects to areas bereft of it to work). As a substance, it is shaped and molded to produce the various magical effects, meaning it takes innate skill or training to do so (Sorcerers and Wizards being prime examples). It also gives magic a distinct artistic flair, allowing for the various stylistic changes throughout the history of the game, when different artists took over or different mages used the same spell with different visuals.

martyboy74
2007-08-26, 02:39 PM
Ooh, nice. That not only provides a basis for wild magic, but also gives you totally logical, in-game, ways to smack your players down if they get to much magic. One minor nitpick; it should say force, instead of substance. Incarnum is the force behind it.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-26, 02:45 PM
Incarnum is a substance, however.

Moff Chumley
2007-08-26, 05:22 PM
One tiny nitpick: Some undead, such as the revenant from Monsters of Fearun (I think), aren't created. Other than that, this is awsome. I wish I had the patience to write something like this.
I know I misspelled patience.

martyboy74
2007-08-26, 05:30 PM
Incarnum is a substance, however.

The law says magic though...

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-26, 05:35 PM
One tiny nitpick: Some undead, such as the revenant from Monsters of Fearun (I think), aren't created. Other than that, this is awsome. I wish I had the patience to write something like this.
I know I misspelled patience.

I don't have City of the Spider Queen, could you tell me a little more about the Revenant? All I have to go on right now is this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/csq_gallery/44470.jpg

And what I mean is, if what creates magic is a substance, it is likely that magic, too, is a substance. I can understand that it might be a force, however. However, the Third Law would be quite as well spoken if I left it as just "Magic is fundamentally unstable". We also have to remember that magic, whilst it does indeed manipulate existing forces (First Law) it also creates new materials. This would indicate it's a substance.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-28, 01:47 AM
Anything on those Revenants?

Lyinginbedmon
2007-08-28, 05:17 PM
Okay, well from what I can see Revenants are undead created by the spirit of the body involved, in order to take vengeance upon what ailed them in life. This is little different to a Ghost, the difference is that the Ghost is instead inhabiting it's own corpse. Ghosts are basically souls, near-pure Incarnum, high-frequency. They are fully capable of animating matter, in fact that's the reason they allow for sentience after all.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-09-06, 11:47 AM
:roach:

Anything new?

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-20, 04:00 AM
:roach:

I have some thoughts on how summoning spells work within the Laws, if anyone wants to know I'll post them.

vegetalss4
2007-10-20, 07:15 AM
i think this looks interesting.
do you have anything ageinst that i use, a rewritten* version of this as magic theory in my champain? and if no what would you like that the name of the wizard that theorized this is?

*rwritten so it can be used ingame and translated to my launguges(how do you spell that?)

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-20, 12:16 PM
The more universal these laws become, the happier I'll be. By all means feel free to use them :smallsmile:

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-20, 04:29 PM
Right-ho, Summoning spells:
We have to consider the ramifications of summoning, especially in high usage. If the real creatures themselves were summoned, plucked freshly from their homes and offices, to do the bidding of whatever X level Wizard needed them, there'd be heck to pay. The full wrath of several planes both fiendish and celestial would be brought to bare upon them for being such incredibly annoying jerks.

In addition of the death of the summoned creature, populations would drop. By the time a Wizard reaches Summon Monster IX, he's probably significantly depopulated a couple layers of the abyss.

So, the answer must be one tying directly to the school of Conjuration, to which summoning spells are attached. The spell seeks out a creature of the specific race desised and produces an exact facsimile. You "summon" a duplicate, basically. Being of your creation, the new duplicate is entirely subservient, and it's death is entirely inconsequential to interplanar affairs.

In short, when you first get the spell, it looks up one of every species you can summon with it on the other planes. It looks for one that it can duplicate with it's allotted magic amount, so it's looking at the most basic thing around (Which is the very description of the Monster Manual version).

As long as the duplicate isn't destroyed, the spell still has it's tether to that same creature. When the duplicate is destroyed however, the feedback breaks that tether. Between castings, the spell then looks to make a new tether, which takes the aforementioned 24 hours. Naturally, you might not have 24 hours between first getting the spell and casting it, but the forces of magic are a lot more dynamic when you first get them than the hundred and fifth time you've used them.

Squatting_Monk
2007-10-20, 05:37 PM
Hmm... wouldn't that contradict spells like Banishment, which sends summoned creatures back to their home planes?

And how about cases where you summon a creature from the same plane? Say, your teenage daughter decided to sneak out the window late at night to smoke pot with her friends and you summon her back home. Is that the real her, or just a copy? Summoning only a copy significantly diminishes the power of a conjurer, especially when he's trying to protect his daughter from a life of drug abuse. How can you encourage such behavior from our youth? Shame on you! :smalltongue:

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-20, 06:08 PM
Hmm... wouldn't that contradict spells like Banishment, which sends summoned creatures back to their home planes?

Banishment rids the plane of anything with an Extraplanar subtype, which would include both original creatures and Summoned copies.

And how about cases where you summon a creature from the same plane? Say, your teenage daughter decided to sneak out the window late at night to smoke pot with her friends and you summon her back home. Is that the real her, or just a copy? Summoning only a copy significantly diminishes the power of a conjurer, especially when he's trying to protect his daughter from a life of drug abuse. How can you encourage such behavior from our youth? Shame on you! :smalltongue:

Nothing in the theory says anything about it restricting planar interaction. That, and I'd like to see the spell "Summon Promiscuous Daughter"

Squatting_Monk
2007-10-21, 04:16 PM
Banishment rids the plane of anything with an Extraplanar subtype, which would include both original creatures and Summoned copies.

True, good point.


Nothing in the theory says anything about it restricting planar interaction.

True, but understand that summoning is inherently planar travel, not just creating something (regardless of where it, or its parts, comes from). Just like when a king summons his knights, he is sending out a call for them to come to him. According to the American Heritage Dictionary:


sum∑mon
TRANSITIVE VERB:
1. To call together; convene.
2. To request to appear; send for.

The SRD backs this definition up:

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it canít be summoned again.

That last part also shows why it doesn't matter if people summon all the celestial badgers in existence: they'll end up back on their home planes regardless of whether the spell ends or is dispelled or if they die.


That, and I'd like to see the spell "Summon Promiscuous Daughter"

Sorry, didn't want to make a mockery of your theory by turning it into jokes, but the implications were amusing. True, there's no spell as such (though some of my gaming buddies would have a blast with it if it did), but it's theoretically possible. The booty talisman (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0320.html) Roy was given by Celia is an example.

Interesting thoughts, though: is there any inherent difference between a summoning spell that summons creatures from the same plane and one that summons them from other planes? How would one go about summoning a particular person or creature (rather than a general type such as that listed in the Summon Monter spell descriptions)? Why is it that planar creatures who die reform back on their home planes?

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-21, 04:43 PM
Okay, let's follow on with the theory that all life is inherently Incarnum-saturated. Each soul has a unique frequency to it, minutely differentiated against that of it's home plane. Each race has a specific range of minute variation in their souls against that same frequency.

For example, let's say that the Material Plane has a frequency of 1. Humans might have a general frequency range of between 1.000000001 and 1.000000003, Elves might have 1.000000004 and 1.000000005, Dwarves might have 1.000000007 and 1.000000009, etc. This is just an example, it's unlikely the frequencies would be so clear-cut.

Using that frequency, the spells are able to locate creatures of a specific race. The stronger a creature is, the more powerful it's soul is, so the spells look for the easiest creature to duplicate, the "path of least resistance", so to speak.

Going deeper, we can acquire the frequency of a specific creature, and use that to summon them.

From here, we use a similar principle to Gate to create an attractive force between the present planar location and the creature(s). This drags the duplicate from a state of potential being (A state of existant raw magic prewritten subconciously by the character) and it causes the specific creatures to be brought instantly to the location.

We should remember that these theories are all drawn from the vagaries of the rules system and the flavour text within. Nothing in your quotes actually says that the creatures go back to their home plane, or even that you're calling the original, just that a creature appears, and that when that creature is destroyed, they aren't really dead, but go back to "where they came from". The latter part would probably not be true were we to summon an actual person, because it would imply the use of resurrection magic, which is far more powerful than most summoning spells.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-21, 10:16 AM
...tumbleweed :smallconfused:

Saeveo
2007-11-24, 09:28 PM
Hmm, but if a summoned creature is simply duplicated by the spell how does the summoning affect the original creature, if at all?

Take as an example Fraz-Urb'luu. His deception special action allows him to summon up any other demon, decieving them into believing that a mortal has summoned them. However, it's stated that he dislikes summoning more powerful demons because it angers them. This strongly implies that they are aware of being summoned and remember discovering his deception. So either he summons the actual beings, rather than copies, or the duplicates must be intimately linked to the original, to the point that both are aware of the events occuring whilst the summoning is in effect.

(I'm sure there are other situations where this produces interesting quandries, but none spring to mind as readily as the above.)

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-25, 06:18 AM
We're on a much bigger power scale with Fraz-Urb'luu in comparison to your typical spellcaster. Fraz-Urb'luu (Darn that's a hard name to type repeatedly, I'm just going to call him Fraz for now) is a demon lord, which implies significant capabilities beyond most ordinary casters (I don't have FCI, but I imagine he's in the CR 20+ range). It's probable that his summoning ability is actually a trans-planar teleportation effect with a hint of divination magic.

This would be more powerful than a summoning spell, since summoning spells only grab the bare minimum that the magic available allows.

Therefore, Fraz probably calls it a "summoning" effect because, worded literally, that's what it is and would look like. In the realm of magical science, however, it's a much more powerful and complex ability which is like a Conjuration (Summoning) effect in appearance only.

Now, suppose Fraz does drag a powerful entity with the ability. As he deceives them, they think they've been called by a summoning effect from a mortal. This means that Fraz probably deceives them on the nature of the effect as well. A more powerful creature would have a better chance of realising an ordinary summoning spell couldn't summon them.

Now, this also implies that most demons (And/or Devils) aren't particularly knowledgeable about magic physics, but that's a given really. If each and every one of Fraz's underlings knew that precise workings of a summoning spell then his ability would count for near-naught.

magic_unlocked
2007-11-25, 05:44 PM
Very interesting, very interesting indeed. Um... would you mind if I used these rules in my own campaigns? And, as another note, the Plane of Incarnum seems to be a lot like the Lifestream concept from Final Fantasy VII. I think....

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-26, 05:48 AM
By all means, feel free to use them.

I don't think the Plane of Incarnum is much like the Lifestream. The Plane of Incarnum is a completely separate planar body, filled to the brim with high-density soul energy that is so concentrated it leaks out through the planar bubble. The lifestream is the life energy of the planet that manifests on rare occasions to protect it.

Not that I'm a particularly fanatical player of FF7 or anything :smalltongue:

magic_unlocked
2007-11-26, 06:32 AM
Thankies, and i give you a cookie, and MILK! to go with it. >_> Anyhow, iI believe that you are indeed right. I guess I just connected the Plane of Incarnum to the closest thing I could relate to it. My brain tends to do that, patterns and all that.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-12-22, 11:17 AM
Having recently read Start of Darkness (Thanks be to thee, Ye Old-eBay!), a new concept sprang into mind: Spell Matrices

A "Spell Matrix" is formed whenever a spell is created. This might be in the mind of a Wizard, hard-grained in the neurons of Dragon or a Sorcerer, or maybe on the soul of Cleric. It is a collection of magical energy forged hardfast into a distinct form which allows it to produce a tangible and specific result in a stable manner (That way there actually can be definable rules for them, if you want to look at it from a game rules perspective).

That's a simple idea. The matrix might be carefully calculated and concocted by a mage over decades, or it might be produced in the brain of magical creatures genetically and inherently (Which gives more credence to the genetical blood legacy of Sorcerers). It even makes Geometers possible. Let's get more complex:

Different spells can interact with each other, we know that much. Permanency makes spells last forever, Metamagic feats allow a spell to do things beyond it's normal capabilities. This could be theorised as working by modifying the spell's matrix, perhaps Permanency adds a second ring to it that keeps the energies contained, maybe a metamagic feat feeds it a little more energy in a specific part or form that gives that extra "oomph" (Precision or haste is needed to do things like this without destabilising the matrix).

Now, in Start of Darkness (http://apegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=OOTS03&Category_Code=), the concept of modifying a spell that keeps the Snarl's rifts closed crops up as a key storyline element. This is something really new, this is taking an existing, permanent, spell matrix, hijacking it and making it do something different. This would need very powerful magic and extremely advanced knowledge, most certainly. A spritz of arcane expertise, a dab of divine influence, and it could be done.

Of course, it would still be very difficult. You would need to tease apart the precise calculations of the existing spell matrix. Figure out where all the magical energy is going in the matrix and figuring out how much those lines can take before destabilising.

magic_unlocked
2007-12-22, 03:41 PM
Nice. But, i've always that that meta feats tinkered with the spells already....

Lyinginbedmon
2007-12-22, 09:05 PM
Nice. But, i've always that that meta feats tinkered with the spells already....

Yes, we've always known that as a basic element of altering spells in the game system, but with the realisation of spell matrices there is a reason for it to work in the world itself.

magic_unlocked
2007-12-22, 09:29 PM
Ah, I get ya. Because of this, are there feats that exploit this new-found knowledge?

Lyinginbedmon
2007-12-22, 09:56 PM
Ah, I get ya. Because of this, are there feats that exploit this new-found knowledge?

I'm majorly busy at the moment, but if you or anyone else can think of any, by all means post them! :smallsmile:

As always, my extrapolation of and theories regarding Magic Physics are simply a thought experiment to put my polymathic brain to good use, though I'd be very interested in a game where they are actually used (By the PCs, even moreso)

magic_unlocked
2007-12-23, 05:11 AM
Hmm.... this may involve actual thinking. I think that, doing so would make new meta feats, or just general feats. Though, i think Spell Penetration would be a good general feat under this system. It tweaks the spells power... sort-of.