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DanyBallon
2017-12-05, 11:18 AM
In an attempt to create a Basic D&D feel using 5e, I’m trying to recreate race-as-class options. I found interesting ideas for dwarves and halflings over the internet, and I’m left trying to figure out elves.
I was thinking making them a mix between fighter and magic-user, giving them a few cantrips ans spell progression like Eldritch Knight, maybe allowing them to imbue magic into their weapons (swords ans arrows alike) for a few rounds or minutes at the cost of a spell slot.
Should I give them as well something about nature?

If you were to design elves as race-as-class, what feature would you consider a must have?

Wartex1
2017-12-05, 11:58 AM
Wood Elves are Rangers, High Elves are Wizards.

That's basically it for a simple skeleton for each. Just add/subtract various features for flavor.

Nifft
2017-12-05, 12:40 PM
Elves might be a good fit for Mystic Ranger with that feat that gives your elf the ability to prep Wizard spells, as adapted to 5e -- so let them prep Wizard spells or Ranger spells. It's up to the Elf if they want to wear armor & cast only Ranger spells, or ditch the armor & cast Wizard spells too*.

They only get up to level 5 spells, but for the early game they feel really OP.

*) EDIT: ... assuming you add back in the old-school armor limitation on Wizard spellcasting, which was a major decision Elves had to make before an adventure -- am I a Fighter this time, or am I a Wizard?

DanyBallon
2017-12-05, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the answers!

So far here what I came up with (It’s only ideas thrwn together. I haven’t balanced anything yet, please feel free to give me your opinions on balance)

HD: 1d8/level
HP at 1st level: 8 + CON modifier
HP at higher level: 1d8 (5) + CON modifier
Armor proficiency: all armors and shields
Weapons: all finesse weapons (note that in my game all swords are finesse weapons) and all bows
Speed: 30 feet
Size: Medium
Language: common, elvish, and one other language of your choice
Proficiency: You are learned in the lore of the forest, arts and the arcanes.
Ability score increase: DEX +2; INT +1

1st level:
Darkvision; Fey Ancestry; Cantrip (2); Keen Sense; Trance; Forest Dweller (like Natural Explorer, but only for forest terrain)

2nd level
Bladesong (as BS feature, but no restriction on weapon and armor); Marksman (like archery fighting style)

3rd level
Spellcasting (like EK spellcasting feature, could be tied to ranger spell in addition to wizard spell, not sure yet); Weapon Focus (can use weapon as spell focus)

4th level
Ability Score Improvement I

5th level
Magic Weapon (at the cost of a spell slot, weapon or ammunition becomes +1 for 1 min/spell slot level)

6th level
Extra Attack

7th level
War Magic

8th level
Ability Score Improvement II

9th level
Potent spellcasting (add INT modifier to cantrip damage)

10th level
Improved Magic Weapon (+2 magic weapon)

DanyBallon
2017-12-05, 01:14 PM
Elves might be a good fit for Mystic Ranger with that feat that gives your elf the ability to prep Wizard spells, as adapted to 5e -- so let them prep Wizard spells or Ranger spells. It's up to the Elf if they want to wear armor & cast only Ranger spells, or ditch the armor & cast Wizard spells too*.

They only get up to level 5 spells, but for the early game they feel really OP.

*) EDIT: ... assuming you add back in the old-school armor limitation on Wizard spellcasting, which was a major decision Elves had to make before an adventure -- am I a Fighter this time, or am I a Wizard?

I forgot to say so, but there won’t be any feats, nor multiclassing, so Elves would be the only classes being able to wield arcane magic and wear armors

But if I decide to go back to armor restriction on arcane spellcasting, I’ll keep your idea in mind as it’s quite interesting

Composer99
2017-12-05, 03:48 PM
I would consider/suggest giving an elf class some or all of these possiblities:

The half-caster progression (what paladins and rangers get), except with cantrips. This helps fill out the upper levels with stuff, so you don't have to do quite as much work. This also lets your elf decide if they want to play at being warriors who use magic, gishes, or spellcasters who can wear armour (by going 'pew pew!' all day with cantrips)
If you want subraces, and unless you want subraces to be equivalent to subclasses/archetypes, have them get a subrace feature at 1st level that gives them their subrace (wood elf, high elf, whatever) features, something like how the warlock gets the pact boon that helps define the class but isn't restricted to a specific subclass/archetype. You may want an "improved subrace" feature at higher levels, though.
Give them subclass options that help define their magic and some other abilities - for instance, a ranger-y subclass gives access to ranger spells and some ranger features, while an arcane-y subclass gives wizard spells - that's if you want subclasses to begin with, which you might not given your stated ambition of a Basic-style retool.
Have a basic 'elf' spell list of cantrips and what you consider to be the most 'elfy' of spells. You could supplement this list with additional spells based on subrace (giving drow a chance to get their "innate" spellcasting, as it were), and then subclass choice lets them access wizard, ranger, and maybe bard spell lists, in full or in part, as is your wont.
At the top end (level 18 or 20), a feature similar to warlock Mystic Arcanum so they can get a 6th level spell, or maybe even one 6th and one 7th level spell, each day.
The 'cast a cantrip as a bonus action when you take the Attack action/make a weapon attack as a bonus action when you cast a spell as an action' feature - that's War Magic, isn't it?


Then you can pad out the class levels with some "elf-y" features that let your elf... well, elf their way through encounters. I imagine the 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4e feats, racial paragon stuff, and other options would serve as inspiration here?

Just throwing ideas out, here. You may well decide, for instance, that any subrace/subclass stuff is too much given your stated objectives.

JNAProductions
2017-12-05, 06:09 PM
I forgot to say so, but there won’t be any feats, nor multiclassing, so Elves would be the only classes being able to wield arcane magic and wear armors

But if I decide to go back to armor restriction on arcane spellcasting, I’ll keep your idea in mind as it’s quite interesting

Wait-the lithe, dexterous, and skinny elves get Heavy Armor. But, if I'm reading this right, the stocky, sturdy dwarves DON'T? The heck?

DanyBallon
2017-12-05, 06:14 PM
Wait-the lithe, dexterous, and skinny elves get Heavy Armor. But, if I'm reading this right, the stocky, sturdy dwarves DON'T? The heck?

Dwarves do get heavy armor, they just don’t get arcane spellcasting. In fact human fighters & clerics as well as elves and dwarves get access to heavy armor, only human rogues & magic users and hafling don’t have acces to it. From the ideas I found interesting, dwarves are more fighter with a few barbarian features. Also some feats are built into the classes features.

One of my biggest inspiration is http://mythlands-erce.blogspot.ca WIP

I do not agree a 100% with his work, but it provides me a good starting base for my own. Also I must give him credits for the great work he did!

JNAProductions
2017-12-05, 06:22 PM
Dwarves do get heavy armor, they just don’t get arcane spellcasting. From the ideas I found interesting, dwarves are more fighter with a few barbarian features. Also some feats are built into the classes features.

Okay-you either wrote it poorly, or I read it poorly.

But still, I don't get why elves get Heavy Armor. Medium, sure, but why heavy?

DanyBallon
2017-12-05, 06:30 PM
Okay-you either wrote it poorly, or I read it poorly.

But still, I don't get why elves get Heavy Armor. Medium, sure, but why heavy?

IMO simply because not all elves are dextrous and large scale wars needs heavy infantry. Not all settings have elves going through major conflicts, but it’s plausible enough to allow them heavy armor as well. And also, elves wearing plate armors with fine sylvan details engraved would look just awesome not to allow them to :smallbiggrin:

JNAProductions
2017-12-05, 06:31 PM
IMO simply because not all elves are dextrous and large scale wars needs heavy infantry. Not all settings have elves going through major conflicts, but it’s plausible enough to allow them heavy armor as well. And also, elves wearing plate armors with fine sylvan details engraved would look just awesome not to allow them to :smallbiggrin:

By that logic, everyone should have every ability. Dwarves should have mages, for instance.

Nifft
2017-12-05, 06:49 PM
So, here's my ideas:

Elf = Ranger base, plus Arcane spellcasting. Flexible half-casters in light armor. Elves can cast in mithral chain shirts, of course. Subclasses:
- Extra Magical Elf: wizard cantrips, more spells prepared
- Unwashed Elf: druid cantrips, wild shape
- Special Elf Ops: minor sneak attack, cunning action

Dwarf = Fighter base. Subclasses would be all Fighter subclasses; since Fighter is awesome (unlike Ranger), there's no overwhelming need to give all of them extra perks.
- Battlemaster (as-is)
- Champion (might need perks)
- Eldritch Knight (only heavy-armor caster in the game)

Halfling = Rogue base, with a few minor racial abilities like Second Breakfast (remove one level of Fatigue and gain 10 temporary hp when you complete a short rest).
- Thief (as-is)
- Mastermind (as-is)
- Swashbuckler (as-is)


... and then Humans can be whatever.

DanyBallon
2017-12-05, 06:53 PM
By that logic, everyone should have every ability. Dwarves should have mages, for instance.

Agreed that my logic should allow for dwarven mage, but I feel they are not as cool :smalltongue:

I could also remove heavy armor from the elves proficiencies if I don’t want dwarven mage :smallwink:

Nifft
2017-12-07, 02:35 PM
Agreed that my logic should allow for dwarven mage, but I feel they are not as cool :smalltongue:

I could also remove heavy armor from the elves proficiencies if I don’t want dwarven mage :smallwink:

You could also say that a very few Dwarves can cast spells, but only as Eldritch Knights -- which would become Rune Knights or Forge Knights or something more dwarf-y -- and nobody else can use the Eldritch Knight subclass.

DanyBallon
2017-12-07, 02:45 PM
You could also say that a very few Dwarves can cast spells, but only as Eldritch Knights -- which would become Rune Knights or Forge Knights or something more dwarf-y -- and nobody else can use the Eldritch Knight subclass.

Unfortunately, while the idea is good, it won't fit what I'm looking for as I try to emulate up to a point B/X, so I'm not quite sure there would be subclasses at all.
Yet I'll keep it in mind for later homebrew :smallsmile:

brian 333
2017-12-07, 05:50 PM
The AD&D Ranger is the class you are trying to build. Fighter progression with light and medium armor, some access to Arcane magic, and some access to Druid magic.

Suggested tweaks:

Elven Armor: Reduce weight by 20%, reduce heavy to medium, medium to light, and light to none for armor type restrictions. Add +2, (10%,) to hide and move silently checks and if you are using it, deduct 2 from Armor Check penalties. AC is unaffected. Magical Elven Armor is exceedingly rare in sizes which could be fitted to non-elves.

Eleven Wizards: NPC elves of advanced age may choose to pursue a career in magical research, adding levels of Wizard to whatever Elf levels they had attained before their retirement from adventuring. While for mechanical reasons the wizard class must be tracked separately from the Elf levels, this is not a separate class, but an advancement in the Elf class. Add 1/3 Elf levels to the wizard levels to find this character's effective caster level.

Eleven Clerics: These NPCs are never adventurers. They are trained from early childhood to protect and serve elven communities, and if one abandons his vows to pursue adventuring he is excommunicated, losing all benefits of his former class. He begins play as a level 1 elf.

(Note that dwarven spellcasters may be treated similarly, allowing Runesmiths and priests to create the magical items and engineering wonders for which dwarves are famous.)

Arkhios
2017-12-08, 08:28 AM
I think you could get easy by revoking race choices altogether and just list each race with appropriate classes and be done with it.

Like so:
Want to play a high elf – master of sword and sorcery? Play either a Blade Singer or an Eldritch Knight.

Want to play a dwarf? Play a Fighter (Battle Master or Champion, not sure which one is more appropriate)

And so on. I'm not too familiar with Basic D&D, so I won't go further. I hope you get the idea though.