Coidzor
2017-12-05, 09:37 PM
I'm looking into the nitty-gritty of construct creation to make a table for when you can really make various constructs between how much they cost, expected skill bonuses, and expected WBL. Unfortunately, I'm finding myself curiously unable to determine the proper way of going about things the deeper I look into the matter.
Prior to now I just assumed that it was the standard CL + 5 Spellcraft check and then maybe you rolled an additional Craft check unless you skipped it by raising the Spellcraft DC by 5.
Some constructs have craft DCs listed before and separately their construction requirements, seemingly or explicitly indicating manufacture of the body for the construct before the magic item creation process can even begin. Ship in a Bottle (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ship%20in%20a%20Bottl e) constructs, for instance, list a Craft Woodworking DC and a specific timeframe over which those checks are done while talking about constructing them but before the Construction Requirements section.
Others, such as the Soulbound (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary2/soulboundDoll.html) family (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/soulbound-mannequin/) of constructs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/soulbound-shell/) list a skill in their construction requirements but give no DC for the skill check. Junk Golems (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-junk/) are an example of this happening outside of the Soulbound construct family.
Animated Objects (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/animated-object) are unique in that one of their two construction methods (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs/) lists "Skill Spellcraft or appropriate Craft skill," with no DC in the construction requirements.
There are constructs that have a Craft or Heal or Knowledge skill listed in their construction requirements, with specific DCs listed for them, and these make up the majority of constructs with rules for their construction. Homunculi (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/homunculus.html), most golems, even Poppets (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Poppet,%20Small) fall into this category.
Then there are constructs, such as Ship in a Bottle (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ship%20in%20a%20Bottl e) constructs and Gargoyle Guardians (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gargoyle%20Guardian) which list no skills in their construction requirements whatsoever.
As a result, I'm a little bit confused about when or if Spellcraft is called for when making various constructs.
The ones with no other skill listed whatsoever seem to be the most straightforward, you just look at the caster level for the construct, add five to it, and then add another five for each spell you can't provide and so on, then roll Spellcraft against that DC.
What I'm less certain about is what the deal is with constructs that have a skill listed with no DC. Is that supposed to be a skill that I could roll instead of using Spellcraft at all? Is it something I could choose to roll instead of Spellcraft at my option, depending upon which skill had a better bonus? Is it a skill check at the same DC as the Spellcraft check that I have to make in addition to the Spellcraft check, but I could just raise the Spellcraft check by 5 and ignore? I think that it's just an option of being able to choose it as an alternative to using Spellcraft and the DC is equal to the CL + 5 + (5 * X), where X is the number of requirements not being met, but I don't know for certain.
I'm even less certain about what the deal with constructs that have skills listed in their construction requirements that have set DCs, and have several similar questions about them. If I can make a good Craft or Knowledge or Heal check, does that mean that I just have to meet that flat DC no matter how many other requirements I may or may not have skipped, whereas using Spellcraft it gets harder for each spell I can't provide, for instance?
tl;dr: can someone who feels confident in their understanding walk me through the step-by-step process of making say, a Homunculus, a Junk Golem, and an Animated Object using its price by CR price formula?
If anyone can provide specific rules citations or point to where clarifications have been made, I'd appreciate that as well.
Prior to now I just assumed that it was the standard CL + 5 Spellcraft check and then maybe you rolled an additional Craft check unless you skipped it by raising the Spellcraft DC by 5.
Some constructs have craft DCs listed before and separately their construction requirements, seemingly or explicitly indicating manufacture of the body for the construct before the magic item creation process can even begin. Ship in a Bottle (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ship%20in%20a%20Bottl e) constructs, for instance, list a Craft Woodworking DC and a specific timeframe over which those checks are done while talking about constructing them but before the Construction Requirements section.
Others, such as the Soulbound (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary2/soulboundDoll.html) family (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/soulbound-mannequin/) of constructs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/soulbound-shell/) list a skill in their construction requirements but give no DC for the skill check. Junk Golems (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-junk/) are an example of this happening outside of the Soulbound construct family.
Animated Objects (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/animated-object) are unique in that one of their two construction methods (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs/) lists "Skill Spellcraft or appropriate Craft skill," with no DC in the construction requirements.
There are constructs that have a Craft or Heal or Knowledge skill listed in their construction requirements, with specific DCs listed for them, and these make up the majority of constructs with rules for their construction. Homunculi (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/homunculus.html), most golems, even Poppets (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Poppet,%20Small) fall into this category.
Then there are constructs, such as Ship in a Bottle (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ship%20in%20a%20Bottl e) constructs and Gargoyle Guardians (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gargoyle%20Guardian) which list no skills in their construction requirements whatsoever.
As a result, I'm a little bit confused about when or if Spellcraft is called for when making various constructs.
The ones with no other skill listed whatsoever seem to be the most straightforward, you just look at the caster level for the construct, add five to it, and then add another five for each spell you can't provide and so on, then roll Spellcraft against that DC.
What I'm less certain about is what the deal is with constructs that have a skill listed with no DC. Is that supposed to be a skill that I could roll instead of using Spellcraft at all? Is it something I could choose to roll instead of Spellcraft at my option, depending upon which skill had a better bonus? Is it a skill check at the same DC as the Spellcraft check that I have to make in addition to the Spellcraft check, but I could just raise the Spellcraft check by 5 and ignore? I think that it's just an option of being able to choose it as an alternative to using Spellcraft and the DC is equal to the CL + 5 + (5 * X), where X is the number of requirements not being met, but I don't know for certain.
I'm even less certain about what the deal with constructs that have skills listed in their construction requirements that have set DCs, and have several similar questions about them. If I can make a good Craft or Knowledge or Heal check, does that mean that I just have to meet that flat DC no matter how many other requirements I may or may not have skipped, whereas using Spellcraft it gets harder for each spell I can't provide, for instance?
tl;dr: can someone who feels confident in their understanding walk me through the step-by-step process of making say, a Homunculus, a Junk Golem, and an Animated Object using its price by CR price formula?
If anyone can provide specific rules citations or point to where clarifications have been made, I'd appreciate that as well.