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View Full Version : Wizard spells, what do you guys think is best.



deathwolf669
2017-12-06, 04:26 AM
Well I am currently playing a wizard and it's got me thinking what is the best spell from each level.

I'm looking at one spell for damaging a single target, one spell for multiple targets and then the most useful spell that's not a damage dealer.

MarkVIIIMarc
2017-12-06, 05:35 AM
I vote Counterspell for a non damage dealer. Wizards get it at level 5 I think?

Umbranar
2017-12-06, 05:48 AM
I am currently a level 9 Gnome Wizard. I have learned many spells through scrolls and other spell books. Till now I had only access to the PHB spells but now have Xanathars and all the spells available. Here are my PHB only favorites:

1st: mage armour, shield.
Requested spells: Magic missile for single target, Burning hands for AoE, sleep for non-damage (becomes less useful on higher level)
2nd: Flaming sphere (cast once, bonus action for damage? yes please), Scoring Ray for "single target", Misty Step for non damage (very useful to get out of trouble).
3rd: fireball for AoE, Vampiric Tough for Single Target (combine with find familiar), Counterspell for non damage
4th: Black Tentacles for AoE control, Phantasmal Killer for singe target damage, Greater Invisibility for non damage.
5th: Bigby's hand for single target damage and control, Cone of Cold for AoE damage, Wall of Force for dividing the battlefield and block runners.

Syradin
2017-12-06, 12:19 PM
Vampiric Tough for Single Target (combine with find familiar)

Doesn't work, vampiric touch is a range: self spell not a range: touch spell. Your familiar can't be used to make the melee spell attacks through it. Wish it did work, would make it better for necromancers but it doesn't.

UrielAwakened
2017-12-06, 03:27 PM
To add to that Phantasmal Killer is really really bad.

You're almost better off upcasting like a Lightning Bolt at that point.

sithlordnergal
2017-12-06, 03:48 PM
I enjoy Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Phantasmal Force. Phantasmal Force makes for a very powerful spell if your DM follows how it is written. By RAW, once a target fails the save it says "While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm." They even provide an example on how a target would rationalize falling off a fake bridge multiple times.

Tasha's is a wonderful spell as well. It is essentially a level 1 Hold Person that works on everyone with a high enough Int. Sure, you don't get the crit Hold Person gives, but it takes a target out of the fight. Plus it is fun to force things to die laughing.

Also, Polymorph and Animte Object. Polymorph gives a wonderful buff, and possible debuff. And Animate Object gives you a ton of minions that are reasonably strong. And all you need for Animate Objects is a single bag of 1,000 ball bearings. Bam, now you have tons of minions on hand.

SharkForce
2017-12-06, 04:26 PM
as a wizard, i wouldn't focus so heavily on damage. or really as any spellcaster. having a small assortment of nukes to cover a few situations makes sense. having 2 per level is going overboard.

essentially, your power comes in the variety of things you can do. so being able to deal damage is good (especially in the categories of damage dealing that you're good at, particularly AoE), but spending a major part of your spells known/prepared on essentially the same task is really not the way to go imo. at 5th level, you don't need 3 ways to AoE nuke and 3 ways to single target nuke, you need options.

so, for example, at level 5 it is very worthwhile to consider fireball, as it is blatantly the most powerful AoE nuke in the game (unless you fight exclusively in straight tunnels, in which case lightning bolt is competitive). you should probably have a secondary AoE nuke option of a different element, i would recommend either shatter or snilloc's snowball swarm. neither are as good as fireball, they're just for you to use when an enemy is resistant or especially immune to fire damage. for single-target, just grab a cantrip. single target damage is not really your job, and even the spells you have that are "good" at it are typically going to look bad compared to a decent fighter build (with the exception of magic missile for evokers, if your DM uses the official interpretation of how that spell works). beyond that, if you look at damage it should be a question of what else it comes with; flaming sphere is interesting not because it does damage, but because it lets you use your bonus action and it blocks off an area, for example. the thing that makes it good is that it allows you to use more actions mainly, not so much that it is tremendously powerful as a damage spell.

after that, start picking up utility instead. even at higher levels if a spell deals damage, you should probably be looking at what else it does on top of that; you might pick disintegrate because it instantly removes objects including wall of force or forcecage, but i wouldn't recommend it for the damage. you might grab finger of death for the permanently controlled zombie, or sunbeam for the AoE blind potential. i'm not saying you should ignore any spell that does damage just because it does damage or anything, but i am saying that damage alone will not justify any further spells because they'll only be doing the exact same thing you can already do.

FabulousFizban
2017-12-07, 09:05 AM
how to use a wizard.

So the optimal spells for you to take are going to depend on what kind of wizard you play. There are three main components of any balanced party, they are usually called the hammer, the anvil, and the arm. They represent damage dealing, damage taking, and battlefield control respectively (usually through buff/debuff).

A wizard can fill any of these rolls, but the traditional choice is BC. Optimally, as an arm typr caster, you want to focus on one of three areas: buff, debuff, or healing. Your goal in these supporting roles is to make combat easier for the rest of your team - to make your DPR better at dealing damage, your Tank better at taking damage, and your enemy weaker as a whole.

If you go the debuff route, which is the one that requires the most effort as buffers and healers can rely on spamming the same few spells over and over, your ideal spell list should contain a spell that targets each different save. Debuffing is weakening the enemy, and no enemy has perfect saves across the board, so finding your current enemies specific weakness and targetting it is the most effective strategy here. It will look to your party as though you have a variety of tricks up your sleeve, the perfect match to each occasion - in short you will seem like magic - but really you only have one trick: weakening the enemy by targetting weakest save.

Here is a list of good spells targetting different saves:
Str: entangle
Dex: faeirie fire, grease, burning hands
Con: heat meatl, poison spray, blindness/deafness
Int: silent image
Wis: vicious mockery, hideous laughter, charm person, bestow curse, command
cha: bane, calm emotions

If you have the time, go through the spell list and see what spells target which saves.

One more word on wizards, and that has to do with subtype specialization. Wizards can have two spell effects active at one time: a concentration spell and an instantaneous spell. This has the effect of allowing the wizard two effects to utilize during combat. Since there are three main types of combat strategy (DPR, Tanking, and BC), by utilizing both concentration and instantaneous effects you can effectively choose two specialities for your character in combat. You can also double down into one specialty by choosing it twice so to speak. Your concentration spell will have the more powerful effect and constitute your primary combat type, and the instantaneous spell will have a weaker effect and constitute your subtype - cantrips are great for this kind of spell.

So for example a wizard could cast faerie fire on the enemy making them easier to hit, making BC your primary type, and your could cast firebolt every round while maintaining concentration, making DPR your subtype.

Hope this was helpful.

deathwolf669
2017-12-07, 01:57 PM
To Sharkforce and Fabulousfizban, thank you for the advice but I'm just curious about what people think are good spells at each level. Which is why I put nothing about my character other than I'm a wizard, but I do mean it when I say thank you for the advice as it was very interesting to read.

I haven't put down a list of spells as I'm only level 4 in this game and I haven't looked beyond it really. But so far I would say I like the ones I have so far.

Cantrips are toll the dead and chill touch
Level 1: witchbolt and comprehend language
Level 2: shatter and suggestion
Level 3: Fireball and animate dead :)

ad_hoc
2017-12-07, 02:21 PM
Witchbolt is one of the worst spells in the game.

SharkForce
2017-12-07, 02:32 PM
better make sure you understand witch bolt *really* well before you settle on that (or talk to your DM about changing it). there has been a lot of effort to try to interpret in a way that makes it not a completely awful spell, and generally speaking, they always fail.

for example, if your target ever moves away (and 30 feet isn't that far), for even an instant, the spell ends entirely.
if you lose sight of your target, for even an instant, the spell ends entirely.
it requires your action every round to do anything, which means it is only slightly better than a cantrip in subsequent rounds, but because the initial damage is so low it hasn't even done as much as a typical level 1 spell until the round after the initial spell was cast.
if you are an evoker, only one of the damage rolls will be improved, not the damage every round.
if you miss, the entire spell fails, you don't get 10 rounds to keep trying to hit.
in the event that your target dies, the spell ends, you don't get to change targets either.

there are a lot of people who *really* want witch bolt to be good, but it's almost like every time you think "well maybe it's not so bad for this reason" and then you read the spell description to check and you find out that somehow they actually managed to include something to make that not work. it's almost impressive just how bad the spell is.

The_Jette
2017-12-07, 03:06 PM
2 words: Chromatic Orb

Sure, it might fall off of use eventually. But, not likely. At first level, you get 3d8 damage of any damage type, chosen at the time of casting. And, upcast it to increase the amount of damage you do. If you're a Diviner, and have rolled a 20 for one of your portents (yes, I know this doesn't happen very often, but I've done it), you get to pick one time during the day to get an auto-crit. So, why not cast it at your highest level, and do ungodly damage? I OHKO'd a few big bads by myself with this spell. I'm just saying it's a good spell...

deathwolf669
2017-12-07, 03:08 PM
Witchbolt only came out so far for bigger beasts, I normally either use a cantrip or as I'm flying about I pick up and throw people at each other. But looking over it again, it is poop. Explains why I hardly ever use it.

samcifer
2017-12-07, 10:40 PM
2nd: Flaming sphere (cast once, bonus action for damage? yes please)

I loved this spell in 4e, but when I carefully reread the effect for the 5e version, I saw that the damage only occurs if a foe ENDS their turn next to the sphere, which is really easy to avoid doing. Unless the foe is restrained through their turn or is otherwise unable to move, they can easily avoid the damage from this. Surprised now that so many people like the spell with such a critical flaw baked into it. IF the damage happened when the START their turn next to it the spell would be useful, but unless you combine it with Pyrotechnics, it's not as useful as I once thought it was. :(

Jerrykhor
2017-12-07, 10:57 PM
Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Firebolt

Level 1: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Shield, Detect Magic
Level 2: Hold Person, Invisibility
Level 3: Fireball, Counterspell, Hypnotic Pattern
Level 4: Banishment, Polymorph, Dimension Door
Level 5: Wall of Force, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Bigby's Hand

McMoria
2017-12-07, 11:03 PM
I loved this spell in 4e, but when I carefully reread the effect for the 5e version, I saw that the damage only occurs if a foe ENDS their turn next to the sphere, which is really easy to avoid doing. Unless the foe is restrained through their turn or is otherwise unable to move, they can easily avoid the damage from this. Surprised now that so many people like the spell with such a critical flaw baked into it. IF the damage happened when the START their turn next to it the spell would be useful, but unless you combine it with Pyrotechnics, it's not as useful as I once thought it was. :(

Plus ramming it into foes as a bonus action?

samcifer
2017-12-07, 11:07 PM
Plus ramming it into foes as a bonus action?

*Sigh* and THAT'S why you don't just read the spell card. :P

Okay, I can see the appeal now.

Potato_Priest
2017-12-07, 11:12 PM
Well, here'd be my lists for the non-damage dealers. I'll evaluate low-level spell for how useful they would be to a 5th level character, and higher level spells based on how useful they'd be to a char of their level. The spells that I picked are not necessarily the "best" for their level, since that will depend on scenario and build, but they are certainly high performers!

1. Absorb Elements (found in The Elemental Evil Players' companion and Xanathar's Guide to Everything)
-Absolutely awesome spell. Resistance to elemental damage is a hard to get valuable feature, and this gives it to you 4/day for any element!
2. Phantasmal Force
-This was a hard choice, because there's so many good 2nd level utility-esque spells, but Phantasmal Force has one thing that sets it apart from every other illusion in the game: the target rationalizes to explain any unusual interaction with the object or creature you create. Unless the target has some other reason to examine the object (they can't suspect it is an illusion) you can expect this spell to work for its full duration. As it turns out, getting people to fervently believe in fake objects is an entirely awesome ability.
3. Blink
-As self-buffs go, Blink is top-notch. It gives you a 50% chance to be on the same plane as the rest of the party during the enemy's turns, sparing you the wrath of AOEs and enemy attacks. It also gives you a sweet 10 feet of free teleportation when it triggers, which is always nice. IIRC it also doesn't require concentration, which is just bloody amazing.
4. Polymorph
-Level 3 featured a great self-buff, level 4 features an absolutely insane party member buff. Polymorph can be expected to give the target a large increase to damage and an incredible buff to HP. Polymorph also has some utility to fill in for other weaknesses of your spell selection: you can turn into a bird to fly when you really need it, or turn into an ant when stealth is of the utmost importance.
5. Wall of Force
- For enemy containment, there's almost nothing better. This wall is invincible and can only be removed by disintegrate, a higher level spell. You can even form it into a sphere around one enemy in particular.
6. True Seeing
-While obviously a situational spell, truesight is nonetheless nothing to scoff at. With this at your disposal, you can sneer at illusions, magical darkness, and invisible creatures. Their tricks don't fool you.
7. Teleport
-In my opinion this is the best spell in the game bar wish. You can pick up a few rocks from everywhere you visit, and then when a fight is going sour, simply cast this beauty of a spell to take the whole party to safety with no risk of mishap. If you can also cast counterspell it gets even better, since you can counterspell the enemy's counterspells for an almost guaranteed escape.
8. Antimagic Field
-The utility of this spell is just incredible. Nothing can dispel it and no magic can penetrate it. If you're fighting an enemy spellcaster or someone with way suped up magical gear, you can screw up their entire mojo just by standing near them. It's also a great panic spell if you end up fighting that lich 1-2 levels of dungeon before you expected to.
9. Do I really need to say what it is for this level?

SpamCreateWater
2017-12-08, 12:31 AM
I love the Skywrite ritual from Xanathar's. Great advertising material.

Oh! Prestidigi-cake-tion, as we call it. Because everything tastes like cake. And that's important for some people. Sand - delicious. Swamp water - delicious. Mouldy bread - delicious.

Laserlight
2017-12-08, 01:24 AM
Don't get too hung up on single target damage. The rest of the party can do that. Go for AoE, buffs, debuffs, and utility.

Just tonight I averted two TPKs. We were in an airship and a green dragon attacked. I polymorphed it into a carp (using the Divination wizard's Portent to force it to fail its save) and it fell 1000 feet to the ground. The dragon probably survived the fall but it didn't renew the attack. In the second battle, manticores destroyed the airship's balloon, and the rest of the party steeled themselves to die. I waited until we were at 500 feet and then cast Featherfall.

My list, including a few purchased spells, as of L7:

Firebolt
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Toll the Dead
Charm Person
Detect Magic(R)
Featherfall
Find Familiar(R)
Shield
Tasha's Laughter
Dragon's Breath (for casting on my familiar)
Invisibility
Misty Step
Pyrotechnics
Suggestion
Clairvoyance
Counterspell
Dispel Magic
Enemies Abound
Fireball
Fly
Hypnotic Pattern
Life Transference
Arcane Eye
Greater Invisibility
Polymorph
Summon Greater Demon

samcifer
2017-12-08, 11:35 AM
Dragon's Breath (for casting on my familiar)


That is pure genius!

Ivor_The_Mad
2017-12-08, 11:58 AM
If you want some Xanathars spells these seem to be the best:
Absorb elements
Bones of the earth
create homunculus
create bonfire
dragons breath
find greater stead
healing spirit
ice knife
Infernal calling (I just think its cool)
mass polymorph
mind prison
mighty fortress
psychic scream
toll the dead
watery sphere
zephyr strike

Strangways
2017-12-08, 10:17 PM
Well I am currently playing a wizard and it's got me thinking what is the best spell from each level.

I'm looking at one spell for damaging a single target, one spell for multiple targets and then the most useful spell that's not a damage dealer.

Wizards are more flexible than that. You should be thinking in terms of targeting the weak points of your opponents. That means not just attack roll spells, but saving throw attacks that target various different saves (WIS, DEX, INT, CHA) etc. You don't want to waste your spell slots making attack rolls against a target with super-high AC but low WIS saves.

For non-damage spells, you want control spells that help the party in combat (like Evard's Black Tentacles) and utility spells that help out of combat (like Leomund's Tiny Hut).

deathwolf669
2017-12-11, 10:08 AM
Wizards are more flexible than that. You should be thinking in terms of targeting the weak points of your opponents. That means not just attack roll spells, but saving throw attacks that target various different saves (WIS, DEX, INT, CHA) etc. You don't want to waste your spell slots making attack rolls against a target with super-high AC but low WIS saves.

For non-damage spells, you want control spells that help the party in combat (like Evard's Black Tentacles) and utility spells that help out of combat (like Leomund's Tiny Hut).

I know wizards are extremely flexible which is why I asked what people think for each level. I'm not after hints and tips for making a wizard or a spell list I'm just curious what people would say is the best single damage spell at each level. The best spell for damaging multiple enemies and their most useful spell that isn't a damage dealer.

Aymon
2017-12-11, 10:54 AM
How come no one is loving magic missile. It's a great spell.

1 it always hits, and ignores cover or concealment unless full

2 it can focus fire or split

3 you can 'peel off' a single missile to wake/rouse a friend, or give another saving through. D4+1 is low enough for this to be useful in a pinch.

Forces Con saving throws on enemy mages with concentration effects running

gamingwizard43
2019-06-19, 09:35 AM
Doesn't work, vampiric touch is a range: self spell not a range: touch spell. Your familiar can't be used to make the melee spell attacks through it. Wish it did work, would make it better for necromancers but it doesn't.

thats not true famillars can cast touch spells through them "when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell"

gamingwizard43
2019-06-19, 09:39 AM
how to use a wizard.

So the optimal spells for you to take are going to depend on what kind of wizard you play. There are three main components of any balanced party, they are usually called the hammer, the anvil, and the arm. They represent damage dealing, damage taking, and battlefield control respectively (usually through buff/debuff).

A wizard can fill any of these rolls, but the traditional choice is BC. Optimally, as an arm typr caster, you want to focus on one of three areas: buff, debuff, or healing. Your goal in these supporting roles is to make combat easier for the rest of your team - to make your DPR better at dealing damage, your Tank better at taking damage, and your enemy weaker as a whole.

If you go the debuff route, which is the one that requires the most effort as buffers and healers can rely on spamming the same few spells over and over, your ideal spell list should contain a spell that targets each different save. Debuffing is weakening the enemy, and no enemy has perfect saves across the board, so finding your current enemies specific weakness and targetting it is the most effective strategy here. It will look to your party as though you have a variety of tricks up your sleeve, the perfect match to each occasion - in short you will seem like magic - but really you only have one trick: weakening the enemy by targetting weakest save.

Here is a list of good spells targetting different saves:
Str: entangle
Dex: faeirie fire, grease, burning hands
Con: heat meatl, poison spray, blindness/deafness
Int: silent image
Wis: vicious mockery, hideous laughter, charm person, bestow curse, command
cha: bane, calm emotions

If you have the time, go through the spell list and see what spells target which saves.

One more word on wizards, and that has to do with subtype specialization. Wizards can have two spell effects active at one time: a concentration spell and an instantaneous spell. This has the effect of allowing the wizard two effects to utilize during combat. Since there are three main types of combat strategy (DPR, Tanking, and BC), by utilizing both concentration and instantaneous effects you can effectively choose two specialities for your character in combat. You can also double down into one specialty by choosing it twice so to speak. Your concentration spell will have the more powerful effect and constitute your primary combat type, and the instantaneous spell will have a weaker effect and constitute your subtype - cantrips are great for this kind of spell.

So for example a wizard could cast faerie fire on the enemy making them easier to hit, making BC your primary type, and your could cast firebolt every round while maintaining concentration, making DPR your subtype.

Hope this was helpful.


wizards should not heal they should focus on damage dealing or buffing/debuffing enemies. and under no circumstances should they try to tank

KorvinStarmast
2019-06-19, 09:52 AM
wizards should not heal they should focus on damage dealing or buffing/debuffing enemies. and under no circumstances should they try to tank That's like, your opinion man.
I've seen an interesting build of a blade singer wizard with high constitution and tough feat. While this may not be the best tank ever, it's surprisingly survivable due to Int bonus to AC.

Trustypeaches
2019-06-19, 10:02 AM
thats not true famillars can cast touch spells through them "when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell"That's the point.

Vampiric Touch isn't a Touch spell.

Bobthewizard
2019-06-19, 10:30 AM
Here are my votes for best spell at each level. I would take these first, then take whatever you want for your second spell of each level.

1 - Shield
2 - Web
3 - Hypnotic Pattern
4 - Polymorph
5 - Wall of Force
6 - Mass Suggestion
7 - Forcecage
8 - Maze
9 - Wish

Edit : Sorry misread the OP. I tend to avoid single target damage spells since every other class is so good at it. Even AOE damage spells don't scale well. Wizards are best when they find a way to keep the enemy from attacking and let the other players kill it.

Trustypeaches
2019-06-19, 10:38 AM
wizards should not heal they should focus on damage dealing or buffing/debuffing enemies. and under no circumstances should they try to tankAbjuration Wizards have the same average HP as a fighter, which recharges when you cast your best abjuration spells: Shield, Absorb Elements, Counterspell.

If you have a cheap single level dip in cleric/fighter or armor proficiencies from another source you have nearly the same AC as a fighter as well.

RulesJD
2019-06-19, 10:44 AM
'Required' Wizard spells to be learned and prepared at all times:

1st: Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor
2nd: Invisibility, Misty Step, See Invisibility (later levels)
3rd: Counterspell, Fireball, Fly
4th: Banishment, Dimension Door, Greater Invis, Polymorph
5th: Animate Objects, Wall of Force, Bigby's Hand/Telekinesis (only need one)
6th: Disintegrate, Contingency (don't need it prepared but do need it)
7th: Forcecage, Teleport, Simulacrum (don't need it prepared but do need it)
8th: Feeblemind, Maze
9th: Wish

That's 20 of your possible 25 prepared spells, but they are the strongest at each level by end game content. There are a toooon of other spells you'll want to pick up (Detect Magic, Identify, Find Familiar, Leomund's Hut, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Detect Thoughts, Clone, Demiplane, etc), but those are the ones you'll always need to cover pretty much 100% of scenarios. Happy to discuss each spell in particular if you want.

For damage at earlier levels, agree with what people have pointed out:
1st: Chromatic Orb (component cost sucks but otherwise best damage potential when combo'd with Find Familiar (Owl) + Help action.
2nd: Flaming Sphere (use end of turn damage to manipulate enemies into provoking AoO from allies), Shatter (low level Fireball).

Tharkun
2019-06-19, 10:45 AM
I will group spells into uses at Tier 1(level 1-4),2(5-10) Remember utility is awesome, and if you can get utility out of a spell it is so cool to pull it off.

Tier 1:


Mage Armor - eternally useful.
Shield - eternally useful
Tasha's Hideous Laughter - control, can be good, can be ok, good for the level.
Magic Missile -useful, if you get a wand of same, can be dropped, but a good fallback.
Thunderwave - good blast for the level, falls off quickly, I stop using at level 4+



Levitate - surprisingly useful, control, utility and defense depending on target.
Suggestion - utility, control
Web - a good pick for a very long time.
Shatter - good AOE blast, side effects are also situationally useful
Maximillian's Earthy Grasp - situationally useful control, I have bad luck with this spell, but I see common situations where it works well.
Misty Step - very useful for a long, long time.
Mirror Image - good defense, I use position more than this, but I do keep it in a Ring of Spell storing or on a scroll.
Scorching Ray - good for the level, and combos well with Maximillian's Earthy Grasp above. Always fun to launch 3 rays with advantage at a target you have restrained in a fist of earth. This is single target. I add this back into my rotation at higher levels since sometimes you just want to burn someone.


Tier 2:


Absorb Elements - this doesn't make my picks during tier 1, but in Tier 2 it is a very big deal. I normally prune my level 1 spells at this point down to Mage Armor, Shield, Absorb Elements and Magic Missile. (and drop missile when I get a wand of same)
Counterspell - as a wizard you should get this. You have the slots, the room in your picks, etc. This is the easiest for your class compared to any other and it is SO useful.
Dispel Magic - I sometimes take this, especially in dungeon crawls. But I also keep a scroll of same as soon as I can, and I also will load into a ring of spell storing if I can.
Leomund's Tiny Hut - required ritual, your party thanks you and your DM sighs.
Fireball - no comment necessary
Hypnotic Pattern - best control spell for a long time, love it.
Slow - good control for when you lose initiative to other party members. Sometimes the optimal move is to drop concentration on this and do something else.
Thunder Step - cool escape that can take a friend.

In tier 2 I use web, misty step, shatter, etc, but I do drop shatter as I get to level 4 spells.
Polymorph - this is utility, control, healing, fun, travel etc. Take this, it is iconic to turn people into beasts and so cool. I almost always use on others not on myself.
Banishment - great spell, best for diviners :) . I have had DMs mourn the banished creature on their turn over and over until the combat ended. This is a very good spell.
Storm Sphere - good combat spell, some battlefield control, decent ongoing damage, I like this for damage. In practice I get more use from Poly and Banish.
Dimension Door - best escape spell, take a friend, also good spell to trigger with contingency in tier 3+
Animate Objects - great damage spell, some utility. love it.
Wall of Force - Great Control, saves parties.


More spells and tiers but this is all I have time for today.

th3g0dc0mp13x
2019-06-19, 10:46 AM
1st level spells.
Single Target: Magic Missile
AOE: Ice knife (I am a wizard I don't want to be close enough to cast burning hands.)
Utility: Find Familiar
Buff/debuff: grease (non concentration bc spells are few)

2nd level spells.
Single Target: Scorching Ray (the damage type is bad but everything else is amazing, against high AC enemies use mm average to low ac use this and wipe them out.) Stays relevant when upcast until disentigrate comes into play.
AOE: Dragons breath (if the familiar thing works at your table its even better)
Utility: Invisibility
Buff/debuff: Ray of enfeeblement.

3rd level spells.
Single Target: use one of your other two options upcast they keep up at this level.
AOE: Fireball or erupting Earth if your DM likes for buildings to burn down.
Utility: fly/counterspell it depends on the DM
Buff/debuff: hypnotic pattern it doesn't get better then taking half the combat out of the fight.

4th level spells.
Single Target: polymorph yourself into a giant ape
AOE: wall o fire
Utility: arcane eye
Buff/debuff: evards black tentacles.

5th level spells.
Single Target: Animate ibjects
AOE: Cone of cold
Utility: scrying
Buff/debuff: wall of force

6th level spells.
Single Target: disintegrate or sunbeam
AOE: otilukes freezing sphere
Utility: Contingency
Buff/debuff: Mass suggestion

Rafaelfras
2019-06-19, 11:13 AM
I am a lvl 11 Evoker currently, so my 2 cents go here

1st level spells.
Single Target: Magic Missile, and as an evoker it becomes a very good damage dealing spell (specialy if you get a wand or a robe of stars)
AOE: Sleep (You dont need nothing else at 1st level to end enconters against multiple enemies, on higher levels you shouldnt use 1st level spells for aoe damage or even damage at all at 11 lvl and higher.)
Utility: Find Familiar, shield and absorv elements (both amazing spells) and mage armor (if you get lucky, get yourself an elven chain and free this from your list)
Buff/debuff: Sleep (as above)

2nd level spells.
Single Target: Scorching Ray (good spell at lower levels, very good for evoker IF your DM dont use the errata, not so much otherwise)
AOE: I dont like any aoe of second level.
Utility: Invisibility
Buff/debuff: Web. (As an evoker you can avoild friendly fire and the restrained condition is a very powerfull one, plus your targets have to spend their action trying to escape it)

3rd level spells.
Single Target: use one of your other two options upcast they keep up at this level (but if you can you should just use fireball or lighting bolt instead.)
AOE: Fireball or Lightining bolt depending the shape you need, both are way more powerfull than anything you have until now.
Utility: counterspell or dispell magic (or both if you can)
Buff/debuff: hypnotic pattern

4th level spells.
Single Target: polymorph yourself into a giant ape (quoted from another poster, i agree with this 100%)
AOE: wall o fire
Utility: Polymorph
Buff/debuff: Polymorph.

5th level spells.
Single Target: Bigby hand (bonus action for the damage, and a ton of other usefull options like grabing and shoving)
AOE: Cone of cold
Utility: scrying, contact other plane (ritual)
Buff/debuff: wall of force

6th level spells.
Single Target: disintegrate
AOE: Chain Lightining or sunbeam to extended fights
Utility: Contingency, Globe of Invulnerability (against casters), true seeing
Buff/debuff: Mass suggestion, sun beam (as it blinds targets who fail their save)

Zetakya
2019-06-19, 06:15 PM
Witchbolt is one of the worst spells in the game.

The point behind Witch Bolt is that once you land the initial bolt there's neither save nor missing that stops the continuing damage.

Sure, you have to have some alternative means of control, either personally or in the rest of the Party, but "use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically" is certainly not useless. Front-load one of the many means of ensuring that the initial spell attack lands and then you can basically stand there smoking a pipe and watching the pretty arc welding fry your target for you.

Frozenstep
2019-06-20, 11:38 AM
The point behind Witch Bolt is that once you land the initial bolt there's neither save nor missing that stops the continuing damage.

Sure, you have to have some alternative means of control, either personally or in the rest of the Party, but "use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically" is certainly not useless. Front-load one of the many means of ensuring that the initial spell attack lands and then you can basically stand there smoking a pipe and watching the pretty arc welding fry your target for you.

This has been discussed to death, but either way...

If you can get the first hit of witch bolt to land, you can do the same with chromatic orb, which instantly deals 3d8. That's 13.5 damage on average, gets fully doubled on a crit (while witch bolt only has the initial hit doubled). Witch bolt deals 6.5 on average, meaning you need the initial hit and then use the action two more times to finally beat out chromatic orb. But in that case, you have two more actions with chromatic orb, which can be used to throw fire bolts for even more potential damage.

Chromatic orb is the frontloaded one, dealing a bunch of damage right away that could be enough to simply down the target turn 1, meaning they don't get a chance to attack you, rather then having 3~ turns pass before they finally die, with each turn a chance for them to crit someone or disrupt your concentration. Remember, in practice, most combats last around 3 rounds.

jaappleton
2019-06-20, 11:41 AM
Shield
Suggestion
Counterspell
Banishment
Wall of Force
Chain Lightning
Prismatic Spray
Feeblemind
Wish

Dalebert
2019-06-20, 02:11 PM
thats not true famillars can cast touch spells through them "when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell"

I'll back up the others. It's true. Vampiric Touch (despite the misleading title) does not have a range of touch.



So for example a wizard could cast faerie fire on the enemy


Wizards don't get Faerie Fire.

My favorite Phantasmal Force is an iron maiden helmet. Basically blinded plus a little continuous damage but an int save. Moves with the target. If you make a big immobile cage, they can just leave it. Then their mind will somehow justify how they got out.

Deathtongue
2019-06-20, 04:41 PM
Wizards get some pretty good damage dealing spells, depending on how you define 'damage'.

2 - Dragon's Breath, Shadow Blade for Bladesingers
3 - Haste, Melf's Minute Meteors, Animate Dead
4 - Polymorph, Summon Greater Demon for Chasme/Armanites/Maurezhi/Dybbuk
5 - Animate Objects, Infernal Calling, Danse Macabre for Necromancers (have them dual-wield broken scimitars)
6 - Contingency + Bigby's on yourself
7 - Crown of Stars
8 - Illusory Dragon
9 - Prismatic Wall, Wish, Shapechange

A lot of those spells are good for reasons beyond just the raw damage, but wizards aren't hurting for options. My Evoker wizard doesn't feel that much smaller in the pants compared to an EB Sorlock.

Fable Wright
2019-06-20, 04:55 PM
The only spells that I will intensely judge a wizard for not having:

1. Find Familiar.
2. Counterspell.
3. Wall of Force.
4. Contingency.
5. Forcecage.

Hypnotic Pattern can be miserable in a campaign where most enemies are spaced out. Fireball is bad at social. Polymorph can be bad for space or GM limitations.

But the reason Wizards are the best casters in the game (as opposed to druids) are those five spells. Never go without. Ever.

Dalebert
2019-06-20, 05:17 PM
4. Contingency.

Never go without. Ever.

Okay, so what are some good spells to put in Contingency?

Fable Wright
2019-06-20, 05:52 PM
Okay, so what are some good spells to put in Contingency?

This one varies by wizard. Dimension Door/Thunderstep vertically, for the wizard on their broom of flying. Resilient Sphere for the perfect defense option. Bigby's hand is a nice coverall. I've seen an evoker talk their DM into stocking a Cone of Cold targeting Self (and excluding themselves from the effect with Sculpt Spell) for blasting. Greater Invisibility or Fire Shield or Mirror Image. Basically, the power to have an Action Surge available that you can fire off as a reaction or nonaction is too good to pass up for anyone who ever casts spells on themself.

Dalebert
2019-06-20, 11:32 PM
I've seen an evoker talk their DM into stocking a Cone of Cold targeting Self (and excluding themselves from the effect with Sculpt Spell) for blasting.

That was a kind DM because you can't sculpt out yourself by RAW.


Greater Invisibility or Fire Shield or Mirror Image. Basically, the power to have an Action Surge available that you can fire off as a reaction or nonaction is too good to pass up for anyone who ever casts spells on themself.

Agree. I haven't been exploiting this as I should. I'll remedy that immediately.

RulesJD
2019-06-21, 09:08 AM
That was a kind DM because you can't sculpt out yourself by RAW.



Agree. I haven't been exploiting this as I should. I'll remedy that immediately.

Two recommendations:

1. If I am about to take damage that would reduce me below half of my hitpoints -> Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.

2. If I am targeted by a Counterspell -> Greater Invisibility

#1 more or less guarantees you can't be ambushed/knocked unconscious before you can teleport away to safety. #2 people get upset over (since you have to specify 'targeted' so you turn invisible before their CS is actually cast) but it's insanely useful. You can also do the same with ORS, as you can sit inside your bubble and cast non-concentration buff spells.

Depending on the lethality of your DM/Campaign, you can set the trigger to be a lot lower thresh hold. Remember, Contingency still works while you're asleep.

Chronos
2019-06-21, 09:29 AM
OK, digging out my spreadsheet of all the spells, the wizard spells of each level I've rated 3/3 stars:

Cantrips:
Mage Hand
Minor Illusion
Prestidigitation

All three of these are for their versatility. And no, I didn't include any of the damage cantrips. Yeah, you probably want a damage cantrip or maybe two, but it doesn't matter much which one.

1st:
Sleep - For the first few levels, at least, this single-handedly wins encounters. It falls off in usefulness after about 4th, but that just means that you switch to something else.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter - Save or lose, that applies to almost everything. This one never goes out of style.
Thunderwave - If you have enemies next to you, but don't want to have enemies next to you, this will get them out of the way, while also dealing a decent amount of hard-to-resist damage.
Protection from Evil or Good - This provides absolute protection against a large number of things that you really don't want to stick on you. Not as useful at low levels, when few enemies are using those sorts of things, but great at higher levels, especially if you already know that you'll be fighting things that like to lay down mind-whammies (mindflayers, succubi, vampires, etc.).

2nd:
Detect Thoughts - Very often, the limiting factor on the party will be a lack of information. Capture a few of your enemies alive instead of killing them, and find out who they're working for, where they're based, what they know about the party, etc. You can also use it to find creatures you don't know are there.
Phantasmal Force - With a little creativity, you should be able to think of something that will hold an enemy's attention more strongly than the party will, and it's got an unusual save that a lot of things are bad at. It also encompasses all of whatever senses your target has, even weird ones like tremorsense.
Suggestion - Not only takes an enemy out of a fight, but gets them doing something useful as well. And it can also be used outside of combat.
Darkness - Lots of things depend on being able to see, so making things unable to see can help a lot. Though it's admittedly better on a warlock.
Misty Step - Excellent for getting out of bad situations, and can be used for utility as well (like getting into a locked room, or the like).
Nystul's Magic Aura - You won't prepare this one often for adventuring days. But spending a little downtime to make all of your stuff permanently look nonmagical can be quite useful.

3rd:
Dispel Magic - Lots of things are magic. Making magic go away can give you a big edge.
Glyph of Warding - The most important point is that the stored spell doesn't require concentration.
Hypnotic Pattern - Area-effect save-or-lose.
Leomund's Tiny Hut - If you can't think of any use for an impenetrable defense...
Nondetection - Needs to couple with Invisibility or a good stealth score, but there's not much enemies can do if they don't know you're there.
Animate Dead - Lots of cheap minions.
Blink - Great defense, and short-range teleports for some utility.
Counterspell - See Dispel Magic as far as making magic go away. And being a reaction means it doesn't even interfere with whatever other spells you're casting.

4th:
Polymorph - You can turn an enemy into a naked mole rat, or an ally into a T. rex. That's good versatility.
Banishment - For many enemies, if it works, it's effectively a kill all by itself. And it's another one that targets an unusual save.
Control Water - There are so many things you can trivialize with this, especially if you've already got Water Breathing on the party.
Fabricate - Make whatever you want.

5th:
Animate Objects - I don't have many damage spells on this list, but this is the most single-target damage you'll be able to get from any spell (though it does have its limitations). Can also be used for utility.
Dream - You can kill, or at least seriously hinder, someone from a continent away.
Legend Lore - Another one for when the party is all ready to do something, and just has no idea what to do.
Mislead - Two great illusions at once.
Creation - Again, for the versatility.
Wall of Force - No save to break up a group of enemies, or protect something that really needs protecting, with very few ways to do anything about it.

6th:
Mass Suggestion - Like Suggestion, but against a whole group, with a longer duration, and no concentration.
Programmed Illusion - Does what you want, when you want it, without having to spend any spell slots or actions when it happens.
Contingency - Ditto.
Magic Jar - Gets you a whole lot of goodness from the creature of your choice.

7th:
Mirage Arcane - The terrain is your plaything, even to the extent of impossible things like floating castles.
Project Image - The big point here is the range, 500 miles.
Finger of Death - Meh as a killing spell, but can give you an unlimited number of zombies.
Plane Shift - Sometimes you need the party to get to some other plane, and sometimes you want some annoying enemy to be on another plane. Versatile.
Simulacrum - Make a copy of a creature (like, say, yourself), with all of that creature's abilities. Who cares if it doesn't regain its spells? Just make a new one.

8th:
Clone - Death? Why would you do a silly thing like die? Ever?

9th:
True Polymorph - All the goodness of Polymorph, without the restrictions.
Meteor Swarm - You don't use this after combat starts. You use this to start combats. From the next county over.
Shapechange - Be anything.
Time Stop - You do you. Everyone else do... well, you do you.
Wish - It's Wish.

That's all from the PHB. From other books:

Cantrips:
Create Bonfire (XGtE) - One action to (in the right circumstances) do continuing damage.
Thunderclap (XGtE)/Sword Burst (SCAG) - These two are basically equivalent. One cantrip to hit everything around you, with a rarely-resisted damage type.
Toll the Dead (XGtE) - The biggest damage die, with a rarely-resisted damage type. This shouldn't exist.
Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade (SCAG) - Amazing if you're planning on using a weapon significantly, meh otherwise.

1st:
Absorb Elements (XGtE) - Significant protection with almost no action cost, and it gives you some offense the next round.

2nd:
Warding Wind (XGtE) - A whole lot of useful rider effects. There was a thread on this recently.

3rd:
Enemies About (XGtE) - Don't just stop enemies from attacking you; make them attack each other.
Thunder Step (XGtE) - Like Dimension Door, except lower level, and also does damage.

4th:
Sickening Radiance (XGtE) - Exhaustion is brutal, which is balanced by the fact that very few things cause it, and you can't just cast a spell to exhaust someone. Oh, wait, yes you can.

5th:
Synaptic Static (XGtE) - Decent damage, of a rarely-resisted type and with a rare saving throw, and also provides a no-concentration debuff.
Transmute Rock (XGtE) - Another spell to make the terrain your ally.

6th:
Create Homonculus (XGtE) - Makes another permanent minion, who can do lots of useful things.
Investiture of Flame/Investiture of Ice (XGtE) - A whole lot of buffs in one.

7th:
Power Word: Pain (XGtE) - Serious debuff, with no save, as long as the target is under 100 HP.

8th:
Illusory Dragon (XGtE) - It's a dragon. And the fact that it doesn't actually exist just makes it even stronger.

9th:
Psychic Scream (XGtE) - Decent damage of a rare type and a debuff, both at once, targeted however you like on multiple creatures.

Dalebert
2019-06-24, 07:43 AM
1. If I am about to take damage that would reduce me below half of my hitpoints -> Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.


You have a DM who will let contingency predict whether an incoming blow is going to hit and also how much dmg that incoming hit is about to do?