The ECL 8, 10 HD flesh golem: how do we abuse this?

[Inevitability]

This webpage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040904a) was recently brought to my attention as part of a debate on a different rule. However, I noticed the following unrelated tidbit:


The incarnate flesh golem known as Fedder puts his formidable strength to work for those who pay for his efforts. He often works as a bodyguard or enforcer, but sometimes he augments his earnings with income from adventuring.

Fedder may be used as a player character if desired.His effective character level is 8th.

Incarnate Flesh Golem Fighter: Male incarnate flesh golem fighter 1; CR 5; Large giant; HD 10d8+10; hp 85; Init -1; Spd 40 ft.; AC 27, touch 9, flat-footed 27; Base Atk +7; Grp +16; Atk +13 melee (3d6+8/19-20, +1 greatsword); Full Atk +13/+8 melee (3d6+8/19-20, +1 greatsword); Space/Reach 10 ft./10 ft.; SQ low-light vision; AL N; SV Fort +10, Ref +3, Will +4; Str 21, Dex 9, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 3.

Emphasis mine.

Any way we can abuse having a 10 HD monster being playable at ECL 8, with what's probably the least ambiguous wording for this kind of thing so far?

[Eldariel]

The two things that immediately jump to mind are martial adept levels and Polymorph. Since straight martial adept is a better adept, I guess that leaves Polymorph-like effects; you're forever two HD ahead in the forms you can assume and some higher HD forms can be rather ridiculous. Spellweaver is 10HD for instance and with CL buffing available to a level 8 Fedder. Would need Metamorphic Transfer/Assume Supernatural Ability for the good stuff tho. Also skill ranks for qualification - perhaps entering Sublime Chord on level 9 were doable with some Psychic Reformation and feats-for-class-skills?

[weckar]

It's... an incarnate construct. Which has -2 LA. Is this really anything new?

[Darrin]

There are a few other types of flesh golems:

Dragonflesh Golem, 30 HD (MM2).
Snakeflesh Golem, 11 HD (Serpent Kingdoms).
Cadaver Golem, 10 HD (Heroes of Horror).

Cadaver Golem appears to be the most promising, as it can use Assimilate Flesh (Ex) to gain various class skills and some class abilities (Favored Enemy, Rage, etc.). I was going to say it's not eligible for Incarnate Construct... but I don't think Incarnate Construct has any text that says it can only be used on non-intelligent constructs. From what I can see, a Cadaver Golem would keep any existing skill ranks or feats it has acquired even after applying Incarnate Construct. I'm not sure about class abilities, though... that might fall under Special Attacks/Special Qualities, which it still loses.

As far as abusing Incarnate Construct goes... the Dustform/Incarnate Construct loop is fairly well known. However, I don't think anyone has done anything with Raggamoffyn/Captured Ones yet.

[tyckspoon]

It's... an incarnate construct. Which has -2 LA. Is this really anything new?

To a minimum of zero, which normally preserves the principle that ECL is at least equal to HD. But since Flesh Golems don't normally have an LA and there is no guidance I know of on how to assign one in the event a usually mindless creature gains intelligence and suddenly becomes a player option, I don't believe Fedder there can be extrapolated to any given construct.

(With 10 racial HD and 1 class level Fedder should be ECL 11. Improperly applying Incarnate Construct and allowing it to reduce his LA below 0 should still only result in ECL 9.)

[Inevitability]

(With 10 racial HD and 1 class level Fedder should be ECL 11. Improperly applying Incarnate Construct and allowing it to reduce his LA below 0 should still only result in ECL 9.)

Actually there's only 9 RHD (just like a standard flesh golem).

Still an incorrect and abusable application of Incarnate Construct though.

[tyckspoon]

Actually there's only 9 RHD (just like a standard flesh golem).

Still an incorrect and abusable application of Incarnate Construct though.

..huh. So it does. I skimmed over that because they were all d8s; I'm fairly certain that should be 9d8 + 1d10 for the Fighter level - Incarnate Construct shouldn't override all future class-acquired HD with d8s, just convert the ones that were changed from Construct racial HD. Could be wrong, but isn't that usually how 'advancement by character class' works?

[Inevitability]

..huh. So it does. I skimmed over that because they were all d8s; I'm fairly certain that should be 9d8 + 1d10 for the Fighter level - Incarnate Construct shouldn't override all future class-acquired HD with d8s, just convert the ones that were changed from Construct racial HD. Could be wrong, but isn't that usually how 'advancement by character class' works?

Given that we're talking about a WotC statblock, it shouldn't be surprising they got the RHD wrong. It should indeed be 9d8+1d10, but for some reason it's listed as 10d10.