The "haste my enemies" bug?

[follacchioso]

This is from the description of the Haste spell:


When the spell ends, the target can’t move or take actions until after its next turn, as a wave of lethargy sweeps over it.


What happens if I haste an enemy with my action (no saving throw required), then drop the concentration before ending my turn? In principle they should lose their next actions and movement, just as it would happen to any friendly character.

[KorvinStarmast]

Just out of curiosity, why did you use the "code" tag rather than the
quote function?

While I like your question, wouldn't the enemy get a save against being hasted unwillingly, or is that part of the bug/exploit/feature/neat application you are talking about?

I just noticed the spell's text:

Choose a willing creature that you can see within range.

The willingness of the creature if you are in combat against it seems in doubt.

[Ganymede]

Haste only affects willing creatures.

[follacchioso]

Haste only affects willing creatures.
I see, it seemed to easy to be true.

[follacchioso]

Just out of curiosity, why did you use the "code" tag rather than the ?
No specific reason, just I am not used to this forum.


While I like your question, wouldn't the enemy get a save against being hasted unwillingly, or is that part of the bug/exploit/feature/neat application you are talking about?But which type of save? Wisdom?

I think the spell would just not work on the creature... Unless you somehow convince them first, with a Persuasion check.

[Lord8Ball]

Well, you could disguise self or somehow pretend you are allied to the person you wish to haste and then betray the person midfight. This strategy is not impossible, but it requires preperation beforehand.

[Aett_Thorn]

I mean, setting this up seems like it would take a lot more resources than just casting something like Slow or Hold Person on them, which would end up having a greater effect.

[KorvinStarmast]

All good, this question got me looking at haste again. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[Lord8Ball]

I agree that it is impractical from a group perspective, but if some player actually manages to gain the enemies trust he/ she could act as a spy or at least know something about the encounter beforehand giving the player(s) an edge. This is not likely to happen in most games though. If this happens the haste spell isn't the best option, but I can see its merit as there is no save for the effect.

[JeenLeen]

As others stated, this seems to hinge on the definition of 'willing'.
Did 5e define it strictly anywhere?

My guess would be that most enemies would not be willing, as they realize you (their enemy) are casting the spell, so even if they recognize it as a beneficial spell (Spellcraft check?), they may well not be willing because they think it's a trick.

If you can somehow disguise your casting of it (such as by being invisible, hidden, Silent Spell, etc.) so that they don't know who casts it... it seems questionable.
In 3.5's day, the Harmless (will negates) saving throws were taken by some that the magic feels harmless, so those receiving it can try to reject it if desired but generally accept it. But such is not part of 5e as far as I know.
Thus, I could see two rulings. In one, the spell works because the person does not actively resist it when they feel the magic boosting them. In the other, since the target is unaware, they by definition cannot be willing, and thus the spell fails. Note that this interpretation would also keep them from accepting Haste from allies they cannot see. (Or, if they are willing to accept it from unknowns since they have a hidden ally, they'd also accept it from you since they'd think you are that ally.) Since I like neat tricks, it saddens me to say that this latter interpretation seems the more valid. It certainly is more in line with the likely intent of putting the word 'willing' in the spell description.

I could also see them accepting it if you are an unknown party, but aid seems reasonable. For example, if the PCs are criminals, the police are raiding a bar where they hang out, and one PC acts like a neutral party and casts Haste on a cop... the cop might think it's a helpful spellcaster trying to help. Iffy, but possible.

So, yeah, a good trick if it can work, but a lot of headache to get it to work, and a real easy way to lose your action if the DM says the spell just fails.

[follacchioso]

I agree that it is impractical from a group perspective, but if some player actually manages to gain the enemies trust he/ she could act as a spy or at least know something about the encounter beforehand giving the player(s) an edge. This is not likely to happen in most games though. If this happens the haste spell isn't the best option, but I can see its merit as there is no save for the effect.

I guess it is quite a contorted approach, but it would work on some occasions. Could be a fun RP opportunity.

A sorcerer may also twin the haste to affect two enemies.

[Waffle_Iron]

Another reason the seeming spell is handy!
Making the party look like the enemy party is a good idea, anyway, and they have a spell caster, they’re either going to be willing for your spells, or unwilling for their own.

[Sirithhyando]

What if you cast "Friend" before? Since he wouldn't see you as an enemy, he could be willing for you to cast benefical spell on him? Then betray him :smallbiggrin:

[Lord8Ball]

Disguise self and subtle spell friends ftw.

[Caelic]

If you can somehow disguise your casting of it (such as by being invisible, hidden, Silent Spell, etc.) so that they don't know who casts it... it seems questionable.


I think it's still pretty clear-cut. If I don't know the spell is coming, I can't be a willing target. If I do know the spell is coming, but don't know who's casting it or what it is, I'd be insane to be a willing target.

[Tanarii]

Just out of curiosity, why did you use the "code" tag rather than the ?
Because he was quoting a perceived bug. *ba-dum tish* 😂


I just noticed when you reply and the post includes code, it is included. Reply does not include quotes is not. Personally I find it annoying when someone puts PHB / book text in a quote marked "PHB page whatever" because when I reply to them that text is left out. Which is why I always put exact book text in italics instead.

Putting exact book text in code instead seems to be the superior way to go. I may start doing that going forward.

[SharkForce]

charm person makes a person become a friendly acquaintance.

[Potato_Priest]

This could be put to the best use on BBEG's who offer a PC a "rule the universe together" deal. All the player needs to do is accept, buff the BBEG, and then have one of their actual allies "break their concentration" to paralyze the BBEG once/time they successfully pull this trick.

[WickerNipple]

Haste only affects willing creatures.

While true, I can still think of situations where this willingness won't be hard to get.

I'm particularly thinking about a DM PC we've all been talking about needing to backstab soon.